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To all the Smashers that have chosen not to wavedash, etc...
- Thread starter JohnPants
- Start date
- Status
Lith17
Smash Rookie
Okay, about wavedashing.
I would say that I'm not perfect about wavedashing, but do a pretty well job in performing the move. Too bad that's where I draw the line in move sets alone. I have a rather hard time trying the other advance moves--flashing with fox, wavecharge, etc...
Wavedashing is like graphics to the game. Wavedashing is not at all the all perfect killing technique. It adds to the games overall. But, I will say this. For those who play without wavedashing, you have a disadvantage. Wavedashing works so well that your chances of winning are cut off at some percentage. Believe me, it's hard to win with Pichu without wavedashing for most of the match.
I would say that I'm not perfect about wavedashing, but do a pretty well job in performing the move. Too bad that's where I draw the line in move sets alone. I have a rather hard time trying the other advance moves--flashing with fox, wavecharge, etc...
Wavedashing is like graphics to the game. Wavedashing is not at all the all perfect killing technique. It adds to the games overall. But, I will say this. For those who play without wavedashing, you have a disadvantage. Wavedashing works so well that your chances of winning are cut off at some percentage. Believe me, it's hard to win with Pichu without wavedashing for most of the match.
bluethree
Smash Journeyman
I play pool every once in a while. I'm not too good at it. I don't think I should be punished by people who practice it a lot!
Zant3tsuken
Smash Journeyman
I can't do advanced techs in real games, I've ****** around in training a little and my main problem is that I can't seem to master short hop button pressing, though not enough to really complain.
I play several different fighting games, and hell, I enjoy watching pros do their stuff in competitions on youtube or whatever as much as people that take the game seriously. I don't play to win, so I guess that makes me a spectator mostly.
From my point of view, Melee is quite blessed in that it reaches out to a wide audiences. People who've never played it before can have fun trying out a wide cast and experiment with all pokeballs or whatever, like some sort of party game. From there it becomes a reasonably easy to learn fighting game, and beyond that and competitive play, advanced tech gives a large amount of depth to the game. This contributes to Smashs massive following when compared to other fighting games. Compare it to say... SF3:3S, it's an insanely cool competitive game, but to the casual player it's barely different to that game they played back in the early ninties. Look at the fact that there is no Street Fighter 4... you get the idea.
At the end of the day, you can play it how you want. I hope that Brawl has just as much scope for depth as Melee did, even if they don't include the same techniques.
I play several different fighting games, and hell, I enjoy watching pros do their stuff in competitions on youtube or whatever as much as people that take the game seriously. I don't play to win, so I guess that makes me a spectator mostly.
From my point of view, Melee is quite blessed in that it reaches out to a wide audiences. People who've never played it before can have fun trying out a wide cast and experiment with all pokeballs or whatever, like some sort of party game. From there it becomes a reasonably easy to learn fighting game, and beyond that and competitive play, advanced tech gives a large amount of depth to the game. This contributes to Smashs massive following when compared to other fighting games. Compare it to say... SF3:3S, it's an insanely cool competitive game, but to the casual player it's barely different to that game they played back in the early ninties. Look at the fact that there is no Street Fighter 4... you get the idea.
At the end of the day, you can play it how you want. I hope that Brawl has just as much scope for depth as Melee did, even if they don't include the same techniques.
Skazryk
Smash Apprentice
Personally i enjoy wavedashing, it is fun and it looks cool. If it did not make it into brawl i could live without it. As for the other techniques such as L canceling i still need to get ahold of it. Im trying but i keep forgetting to do it.
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
People, put emphasis on this post.
This person seems to understand what many fail to. Thank you.
Bailey
Smash Hero
Um if you don't use adv. techs then you are bad. That is my point. Granted sometimes I play with friends who are bad and I don't play as fast.
*I didn't read the whole thread so this might be somewhere in it*
Mr.Pants
-The Wavedash was noticed by the designers they called it landfalling, now if they saw it and left it in there obviously they wanted people to use it.
-The L-Cancel, requires good timing and at first isn't easy to always get it. It was in the first game so they put it in this one. Doesn't seem un-honorable to me.
Also Mr.Pants your Honorable ways Vs. my un-honorable ways. $100?
*I didn't read the whole thread so this might be somewhere in it*
Mr.Pants
-The Wavedash was noticed by the designers they called it landfalling, now if they saw it and left it in there obviously they wanted people to use it.
-The L-Cancel, requires good timing and at first isn't easy to always get it. It was in the first game so they put it in this one. Doesn't seem un-honorable to me.
Also Mr.Pants your Honorable ways Vs. my un-honorable ways. $100?
Eaode
Smash Champion
I didn't read this topic because I'm sick of the deabte. All I will say is this:
"The game know's nothing of 'Honor' or 'Cheapness', The game only knows winning or losing....
Play to Win"
"The game know's nothing of 'Honor' or 'Cheapness', The game only knows winning or losing....
Play to Win"
It's possibly been said better before, but I don't feel like reading the whole thread because these threads always turn out the same.
I agree. Well, maybe not necessarily with the somewhat aggressive tone of the post. But, yeah.
I used to think that the competitive way is boring because it seemed to be all just about not giving your opponent a chance to attack and comboing them and stuff. That was a few months ago. It didn't take me long to realize how idiotic it sounds now.
Some people should really take a critical look at themselves and wonder whether they really do not play to win, or whether they just tell themselves that to feel better about the way they play when they lose. Because, really, if you don't play to win, why feel upset about losing?
Now it has to be said, too competitive players do seem to exist aplenty.
From the "Dumbest thing you've ever heard someone say about Smash" thread, I gathered that some people, when playing their friends who don't know advanced techs and don't have enough experience to be able to use them, use every trick available in the book and then make fun of them for complaining about it.
If you're playing against someone who you know doesn't know advanced techniques and is definitely a worse player than you due to lack of experience, there is no need to use all sorts of exploits.
Obviously letting someone win is useless and won't accomplish anything for either player, but trapping someone who already has no chance to win in an infinite combo and using all sorts of tricks they have no idea about to accomplish a humiliating defeat is just spiteful and unnecessary.
If the game is not being played competitively, it's about fun.
It is no fun to be completely destroyed by default with no chance to protect oneself, and it's not a challenge to the one dominating the playfield.
Think of it like this.
You and your friend want to play American Football.
You are a professional player and he's barely played the game before and just wants to try it for ****s and giggles.
You have only one set of decent equipment, including shoes, a helmet and other protection.
What will you do?
And what would you want the other to do if you were stuck in the role of the underdog?
Moon Monkey
Smash Hero
"I've been playing Melee since the day it came out, yet I've never attempted to wavedash, shffl, L-cancel, etc. The people I play with don't either...we refrain from using techniques not originally intended to be used"
That is the sameway how i play
That is the sameway how i play
PurpleStuff
Smash Apprentice
This thread kind of reminds me of the big creationism vs. evolution debate-
The hardcore creationists get OWNED IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY WITH A MILLION DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS, yet they continue to act as if they're right.
(I'm not trying to bring anything RELIGIOUS in. I might be religious for all you know. Stop mocking me! Why does this always have to be about my faith! I hate this thread!)
The hardcore creationists get OWNED IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY WITH A MILLION DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS, yet they continue to act as if they're right.
(I'm not trying to bring anything RELIGIOUS in. I might be religious for all you know. Stop mocking me! Why does this always have to be about my faith! I hate this thread!)
Kirby knight
Smash Lord
By just bring that up; that could start a side debate because the way you presented it. :/ really uneeded.
-Knight
Wow, I think I disagree with just about every word written in that link. If that makes me a scrub, sign me up.
greenblob
Smash Lord
Just to clear things up, "playing to win" is not a "ZOMG I HAVE TO WIN YOU NOOB!" mentality. No one actually cares that much if they lose, unless it's at a tournament in which one might have a chance at winning. The "playing to win" mentality is your "good sportsmanship" mentality--do your best and try to win, but remember that in the end, it doesn't really matter either way.
So basically I'm saying that scrubs are bad sports.
So basically I'm saying that scrubs are bad sports.
Pluvia's other account
Smash Master
I know how to WD, it really isn't that hard.
But, what I don't like about it is that people abuse it. That's fine I guess, but it ruins the experience for the player you're versing, and then you go and spit in their face when they lose.
"ZOMG! YOU CAN'T WD! NOOB!"
That's a pretty tame line aswell, most people talk about non-WDs as some sort of half-human half-breed.
I know how to WD, I just don't use it, I can kick people's ***** at the game fine without it. I just don't mind losing, It's funner when it's fair.
There will be no advanced techniques in Brawl, as the Havok Engine will remove them all, it gives you an unfair advantage and the rest of the world see them as glitches.
But, what I don't like about it is that people abuse it. That's fine I guess, but it ruins the experience for the player you're versing, and then you go and spit in their face when they lose.
"ZOMG! YOU CAN'T WD! NOOB!"
That's a pretty tame line aswell, most people talk about non-WDs as some sort of half-human half-breed.
I know how to WD, I just don't use it, I can kick people's ***** at the game fine without it. I just don't mind losing, It's funner when it's fair.
There will be no advanced techniques in Brawl, as the Havok Engine will remove them all, it gives you an unfair advantage and the rest of the world see them as glitches.
I guess it depends on how you look at it, i think some of the tactics i've seen by "non scrubs" have been pretty unsportsmanlike. If someone edgehogs all the time that's fine for them but I think it's cheesy. It's like the people who go into a RTS game that says no rush and then rush, am I a bad sport for getting mad for losing like that? Are they a true game cause they did what it took to beat me?
Eaode
Smash Champion
Yes. They are. If rushing is what it takes to win, then do it. It's not like it's broken. If you keep losing to rushing, then protect yourself at the start of the game. Don't just say "No rushing!" and play the game in your own little set of rules. If the entire game really comes down to just rushing, and there's no way to win when someone rushes, then it's a shallow game and probably not worth being played.
I really don't understand why some people don't active reload in Gears 'cause they think it's "gay"
ZOMG you bullets are more powerful!!!! So what? everyone can use it, so it's pretty much like everyone just has a little less health xD
greenblob
Smash Lord
If I can tell that someone purposely didn't edgehog me, then I feel insulted. It's basically saying, "I don't think you're good enough."
WR3K
Smash Ace
me nad my friends dont wavedash
i can, but im not good enough to utilize it
i try to lcancel alot of things and tech off stuff... 50% successfully
i can, but im not good enough to utilize it
i try to lcancel alot of things and tech off stuff... 50% successfully
ShoDan
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2007
- Messages
- 121
im probaly repeating something that alot of people have said
but wavedashing and l cancel make the game perfect, when i played m64 smash bros it was just a fun game with al my favo ninty characters. but then melee came out and made te game from fun to briljant. since i have the game i played in every day of my life, wavedashing and other thing make the game better then just a simple buttonbash game
and if you finaly play with someone who can do al the advance stuff you will see the beauty of it
now you think edgehogging is lame, but if you see it in action you see that if someone does that you have other options to deal with that. if someone wavedashen you wavedash to its perfect
i say if you havent played with someone yet who can do that, you cant really understand and think its cheating
but wavedashing and l cancel make the game perfect, when i played m64 smash bros it was just a fun game with al my favo ninty characters. but then melee came out and made te game from fun to briljant. since i have the game i played in every day of my life, wavedashing and other thing make the game better then just a simple buttonbash game
and if you finaly play with someone who can do al the advance stuff you will see the beauty of it
now you think edgehogging is lame, but if you see it in action you see that if someone does that you have other options to deal with that. if someone wavedashen you wavedash to its perfect
i say if you havent played with someone yet who can do that, you cant really understand and think its cheating
Taymond
Smash Journeyman
Let's all take a deep breath
I don't know if JohnPants still reads this post, and if he does, I don't expect to change how he, or anyone, thinks, but after having read this entire thread, I wanted to express myself on the matter, and so I'm going to. I made an account just for this.
The main problem with this little "debate" is that both sides have their own little trolls who don't take the time to respond intelligently enough to be taken seriously, and so both sides group the entire opposition with these people. I could say "haha omgz0r, ur uh n00b adv techs were put tere on purpose so stfu u dont know nething!" but what would be the point?
The point here is.. we're all arrogant. The problem is simple. Johnpants, you're arrogant. You've made a conscious decision about how you're going to play the game, and that's more than fine. I can't make you use advanced techniques. Nobody can. And in all likelihood, you can't make anybody stop using them. The problem isn't this choice you've made. The problem is that you've convinced yourself that you are more noble, more "honorable" than the people on the other side of the debate.
See now, this is when our trolls i talked about come and ruin any valid point I might make, because as soon as I make this comment, someone comes along and says something about edgehogging and n00bs and how you're automatically going to lose if you don't do it. And here's the thing, it's kinda rude, yeah. I agree with you. It's almost meanspirited in nature, but I say almost. The saving grace on this point is.. that this is all just a game. Yeah, it's a little dirty, and you don't have to do it. When i first started edgehogging my friends, they thought it was lame, but they're all good players, and they knew they could do it to me, too. And they saw, in fact, that it's a pretty clever way to get an edge on occasion. I don't do it constantly, and neither do they, but we all do it from time to time.
You talk about what a beautiful game Melee is, and I agree with you. It's neat. It's a wonderfully designed game that allows for unbelievably fast-paced action that a beginner player can barely follow, and that's part of the fun. I remember when i first started playing smash. I sucked. Everything just happened too fast for me to follow, but eventually i learned to keep up, and i got a lot better. The thing is, I don't see what's so "ugly" or "un-graceful...ish" about the advanced techniques. I don't really think your argument fits here.
Watching Luigi wavedash looks COOL. I play luigi, and I enjoy it a lot, and playing luigi is really the only time I do a lot of wavedashing. When you consider a reality that allows competitors to erect a mental shield around themselves, you have to compromise that it's not our reality. Why, then, can't Luigi put his hand on the ground, crouch, and push, sending him gliding gracefully along the stage on slippery-soled shoes? It looks beautiful and graceful and elegant in its own way.
The beauty of Smash is its fast pace, and I think you'd agree. The techniques that all the fantastic advanced players use speed the game up to an even faster degree, and I love it. I'm not that great with the advanced techniques. I'm still learning them, and I don't use them as often as advanced players do, but I use them when i can, and they work well. They're nifty as heck, and when you pull of some amazing combo using those advanced techniques, it's the most satisfying moment in smash, at least for me.
Now take it from me, a player who, like you until very recently, was a very capable player without advanced techniques. I played with all my friends and we're all on roughly the same level, which is very good for not using advanced techniques. I'd put us on the same level as you, without even having to see how you play. I have no doubt that you're good at the game. I'm not being condescending, I really believe it. Recently I went to a few tournaments for the first time, though. This was shortly after I started getting into advanced techniques, and could throw them around occasionally to help me, but not use them nonstop.
I got my *** handed to me as soon as the tourney weeded out the casual players. My friends and I were probably the last "traditional" players in the tournament, and we did our best. We played well. We even beat a couple of the advanced players between us. But the good ones? The REALLY good ones? We didn't stand a chance. And you can't. That's just how it is. I understand that before you play a fantastic player, you don't know just how tough it is. But believe me when I tell you, you couldn't stand up to them as well as you might think. I learned that recently.
The problem with YOUR side of the debate, is although I'm sure you're a very competent player, all the casual players of this game are forced into your side of the discussion. This all boils down to "I play with my friends all the time and..." vs. "I play in tourneys all the time and..." If you play with the same group of people all the time, you don't need to improve that much. Chances are, you're all going to stay on the same level. If all you've ever played is with your friends, you can't speak on the experiences of tournament players. You can't. You don't have the knowledge to do so. That's not your place.
Because really? You don't know. You can suppose. You can very very intelligently imagine and guess, but you don't know. It's not fair to each other to generalize each other so much here. How can we take you seriously when all of your supporting posts are "i play with my frends all th etiem we dont use advtchs thyre gay." And how can you take us seriously when people on our side generalize you? When people say you HAVE to do this, or you fail. Game over.
The fact of the matter is, gaming with your friends, and gaming for serious competition are different. And if you don't play for competition, you're going to get your *** handed to you by those who do. Now, don't misunderstand me when i say "for competition." I play with my friends mostly, and we all want to win. We're competing for it, you might say. But we don't go to tourneys regularly. We go occasionally, but we don't make a habit of us. The people at tourneys are better than us. If I put the effort in, went to a lot of tourneys, and really tried, I could be as good as they are. But as it stands, I'm not. I can't speak to their experiences, and neither can you.
I don't even want to get into the "morals" of play, but I have to. That's the heart of this discussion. And the fact is.. this is a game. "Play to win" doesn't mean you have to be coldblooded. It means you have to be mature. It means you have to accept your losses. It means no whining, frankly. There's nothing that says you have to play this game "competitively," as it's been defined here. This is a GREAT game for players of all skill levels, it's unendingly fun! But you can't hide behind morals if you want to play as seriously as these people do.
Sure, memorizing hitboxes may be a bit over the top for you, but you don't have to do it. And you don't have to be worse because of it. You can still be some serious competition. But on the whole, "I play with my friends..." WILL lose to "I go to tourneys all the time." Just like "I play basketball a lot and am very good" will always lost to "NBA." I'm not saying you suck at basketball. You could be great at basketball. There's a difference between doing something as a hobby and doing it professionally, though. Likewise, there's a difference between playing with your friends, and playing in a tourney.
Don't talk about what's fun and what isn't. You can't tell anyone what fun is. It's fun playing with my friends. It's a lot of fun playing in tourneys, too, even though I lose. And for the people that can pull off those beautiful combos that go from 0% to dead without letting the other player act, that's fun. They are able to do that because they have the skill to do so. There's not some glitch that enables them to win. Even knowing how to do advanced techniques, it still takes a lot of skill to use them to the calibur that some players do, skill that I'm still learning. You can't degrade them just because they use techniques you don't. That's silly. They're still very competent players. They're not newbies abusing a glitch to do better than they should. They're skilled players using ALL the techniques given to them, not ignoring some.
I know this is lengthy, and I'm sorry, but... this is a topic that just... doesn't make sense.
We all play for fun, at the heart of it. If it wasn't fun, why would we play?
I don't know if JohnPants still reads this post, and if he does, I don't expect to change how he, or anyone, thinks, but after having read this entire thread, I wanted to express myself on the matter, and so I'm going to. I made an account just for this.
The main problem with this little "debate" is that both sides have their own little trolls who don't take the time to respond intelligently enough to be taken seriously, and so both sides group the entire opposition with these people. I could say "haha omgz0r, ur uh n00b adv techs were put tere on purpose so stfu u dont know nething!" but what would be the point?
The point here is.. we're all arrogant. The problem is simple. Johnpants, you're arrogant. You've made a conscious decision about how you're going to play the game, and that's more than fine. I can't make you use advanced techniques. Nobody can. And in all likelihood, you can't make anybody stop using them. The problem isn't this choice you've made. The problem is that you've convinced yourself that you are more noble, more "honorable" than the people on the other side of the debate.
See now, this is when our trolls i talked about come and ruin any valid point I might make, because as soon as I make this comment, someone comes along and says something about edgehogging and n00bs and how you're automatically going to lose if you don't do it. And here's the thing, it's kinda rude, yeah. I agree with you. It's almost meanspirited in nature, but I say almost. The saving grace on this point is.. that this is all just a game. Yeah, it's a little dirty, and you don't have to do it. When i first started edgehogging my friends, they thought it was lame, but they're all good players, and they knew they could do it to me, too. And they saw, in fact, that it's a pretty clever way to get an edge on occasion. I don't do it constantly, and neither do they, but we all do it from time to time.
You talk about what a beautiful game Melee is, and I agree with you. It's neat. It's a wonderfully designed game that allows for unbelievably fast-paced action that a beginner player can barely follow, and that's part of the fun. I remember when i first started playing smash. I sucked. Everything just happened too fast for me to follow, but eventually i learned to keep up, and i got a lot better. The thing is, I don't see what's so "ugly" or "un-graceful...ish" about the advanced techniques. I don't really think your argument fits here.
Watching Luigi wavedash looks COOL. I play luigi, and I enjoy it a lot, and playing luigi is really the only time I do a lot of wavedashing. When you consider a reality that allows competitors to erect a mental shield around themselves, you have to compromise that it's not our reality. Why, then, can't Luigi put his hand on the ground, crouch, and push, sending him gliding gracefully along the stage on slippery-soled shoes? It looks beautiful and graceful and elegant in its own way.
The beauty of Smash is its fast pace, and I think you'd agree. The techniques that all the fantastic advanced players use speed the game up to an even faster degree, and I love it. I'm not that great with the advanced techniques. I'm still learning them, and I don't use them as often as advanced players do, but I use them when i can, and they work well. They're nifty as heck, and when you pull of some amazing combo using those advanced techniques, it's the most satisfying moment in smash, at least for me.
Now take it from me, a player who, like you until very recently, was a very capable player without advanced techniques. I played with all my friends and we're all on roughly the same level, which is very good for not using advanced techniques. I'd put us on the same level as you, without even having to see how you play. I have no doubt that you're good at the game. I'm not being condescending, I really believe it. Recently I went to a few tournaments for the first time, though. This was shortly after I started getting into advanced techniques, and could throw them around occasionally to help me, but not use them nonstop.
I got my *** handed to me as soon as the tourney weeded out the casual players. My friends and I were probably the last "traditional" players in the tournament, and we did our best. We played well. We even beat a couple of the advanced players between us. But the good ones? The REALLY good ones? We didn't stand a chance. And you can't. That's just how it is. I understand that before you play a fantastic player, you don't know just how tough it is. But believe me when I tell you, you couldn't stand up to them as well as you might think. I learned that recently.
The problem with YOUR side of the debate, is although I'm sure you're a very competent player, all the casual players of this game are forced into your side of the discussion. This all boils down to "I play with my friends all the time and..." vs. "I play in tourneys all the time and..." If you play with the same group of people all the time, you don't need to improve that much. Chances are, you're all going to stay on the same level. If all you've ever played is with your friends, you can't speak on the experiences of tournament players. You can't. You don't have the knowledge to do so. That's not your place.
Because really? You don't know. You can suppose. You can very very intelligently imagine and guess, but you don't know. It's not fair to each other to generalize each other so much here. How can we take you seriously when all of your supporting posts are "i play with my frends all th etiem we dont use advtchs thyre gay." And how can you take us seriously when people on our side generalize you? When people say you HAVE to do this, or you fail. Game over.
The fact of the matter is, gaming with your friends, and gaming for serious competition are different. And if you don't play for competition, you're going to get your *** handed to you by those who do. Now, don't misunderstand me when i say "for competition." I play with my friends mostly, and we all want to win. We're competing for it, you might say. But we don't go to tourneys regularly. We go occasionally, but we don't make a habit of us. The people at tourneys are better than us. If I put the effort in, went to a lot of tourneys, and really tried, I could be as good as they are. But as it stands, I'm not. I can't speak to their experiences, and neither can you.
I don't even want to get into the "morals" of play, but I have to. That's the heart of this discussion. And the fact is.. this is a game. "Play to win" doesn't mean you have to be coldblooded. It means you have to be mature. It means you have to accept your losses. It means no whining, frankly. There's nothing that says you have to play this game "competitively," as it's been defined here. This is a GREAT game for players of all skill levels, it's unendingly fun! But you can't hide behind morals if you want to play as seriously as these people do.
Sure, memorizing hitboxes may be a bit over the top for you, but you don't have to do it. And you don't have to be worse because of it. You can still be some serious competition. But on the whole, "I play with my friends..." WILL lose to "I go to tourneys all the time." Just like "I play basketball a lot and am very good" will always lost to "NBA." I'm not saying you suck at basketball. You could be great at basketball. There's a difference between doing something as a hobby and doing it professionally, though. Likewise, there's a difference between playing with your friends, and playing in a tourney.
Don't talk about what's fun and what isn't. You can't tell anyone what fun is. It's fun playing with my friends. It's a lot of fun playing in tourneys, too, even though I lose. And for the people that can pull off those beautiful combos that go from 0% to dead without letting the other player act, that's fun. They are able to do that because they have the skill to do so. There's not some glitch that enables them to win. Even knowing how to do advanced techniques, it still takes a lot of skill to use them to the calibur that some players do, skill that I'm still learning. You can't degrade them just because they use techniques you don't. That's silly. They're still very competent players. They're not newbies abusing a glitch to do better than they should. They're skilled players using ALL the techniques given to them, not ignoring some.
I know this is lengthy, and I'm sorry, but... this is a topic that just... doesn't make sense.
We all play for fun, at the heart of it. If it wasn't fun, why would we play?
Adi
Smash Lord
Yup, most of the anti-advanced techniques mentalitly stems from ignorance. If you don't really understand something than don't complain about it. There's a counter to everything in Smash if you look hard enough.
EDIT: *starts a slow clap at above post*
EDIT: *starts a slow clap at above post*
Pluvia's other account
Smash Master
I agree that we should all play for fun, who cares what the other person does.
Wavedashing's great but, it won't return in Brawl unless it's manually added.
Wavedashing's great but, it won't return in Brawl unless it's manually added.
Taymond
Smash Journeyman
If someone ignores a rule you've put on the RTS game, yeah, it's a little meanspirited of the player. That's not the issue here, though.
Defining those limitations on your game is... to put it simply, LIMITING your game. I play a lot of RTS games, and while no rush games are fun to amass huge armies to throw at each other, you're eliminating a whole aspect of the game from your play. Do you think THAT is how developers "meant" the game to be played? Playing in a no rush game doesn't define the better player, it only defines the faster one. It's really easy to devote all your attention to offense and completely ignore setting up intelligent defenses early on. These games are simulators. They're supposed to simulate this imaginary combat. Do you think your marines would really build 12 starports and mass battleships without building a single bunker or seige tank in the first 10 minutes to defend against the zerglings that threaten your position? I don't.
Maybe someone spent a lot of time learning how to rush well, and maybe you didn't. That doesn't make them a newb if that's how they choose to play. They could probably rush your *** off. And maybe you could kick their *** in a no rush game. These little limitations are fun, but they segment the game so much. They detract from the core of the game, the total experience. Straight games are seen FAR too little in RTS's.
I don't know who you are.
But I want your autograph.
That was the most amazing first post I ever read. You pretty much said everything I've had stuck in the back of my head and didn't manage to put in words.
Wow.
I hear what you're saying Taymond but if you agree to a rule then you agree to a rule. I was talking about C&C Generals specifically, the game is broken and if you say no rush and someone rushes you can't win. In a more balanced game i wouldn't make those rules because in theory i agree to what you are saying, WC3 is balanced, a rush can be stopped so i'm fine with no set rules to that game. My argument was a fair fight, people who agree to rules and then do something else or people who hack games to give themselves an advantage doesn't make them a true gamer even if they are winning, that just makes them an @****** that doesn't think they can win if it's a fair match.
IllidR
Smash Champion
You are wrong, if you agree to a game of no rush for 15 minutes and then your opponent rushes then yes, he cheated in your set or rules and that caused you to lose. But when if you ever play smash against a pro are you going to say "Okay, no advanced techniques." If he does happen to do it then okay, he won't use them and he'll probably still win. Using a wavedash doesn't automatically make you win, you have to know how to use it properly and if not then they could be gimping their own game.
IllidR
Smash Champion
Well if they hack then yes.. that's complete cheating. And most likely they could put an online patch to prevent it. Problem is how many people who have never heard of competitive smash are going to see a wavedash online and assume it's a hack and complain?
XSilvenX
Smash Lord
nub thread.
Doggalina
Smash Lord
I'd like to thank Advanced Techniques and Smashboards for reinvigorating my Smash life with my friends. Once I found SWF, I read guides all the time, found my main (Falcon), and showed SWF to my friends, and they read the guides, etc, etc. Now, we all play to win with each other. We all use advanced techs to some extent. It's brought new life to Smash for us.
The bottom line is, playing at a higher level (lol, I wouldn't call my local play 'high level') with your friends is fun. Self-improvement is fun, and learning all of the advanced techs is the ultimate in self-improvement.
The bottom line is, playing at a higher level (lol, I wouldn't call my local play 'high level') with your friends is fun. Self-improvement is fun, and learning all of the advanced techs is the ultimate in self-improvement.
red stone
Smash Ace
the is the scrubiest thread i have ever read....wavedash will be in brawl. deal with it.
Adi
Smash Lord
Tyrannotaur
Smash Ace
I don't used Advanced Techniques cause I don't know how and never had much interest in learning. One Day when I have free time perhaps I will learn.
Often times I play SSBM with my friend (He's on these forums too, Polaris Junkie). I try to tell him about how I find edge guarding cheap. He doesn't understand and goes on to tell me that it is"Part of the Game". The way I see it by waiting by the edge all you are doing is saying that you can beat me up enough to get me off the stage and then block my recovery by waiting near the edge ready to attack. While I agree that it is part of the game, it doesn't make it honorable.
I would much rather fight to the point where I am so damaged that I can't come back under my own power and am forced to either fall to my death or be sent into the background/foreground. Not be beat to 125% or so and then be prevented from recovering by you waiting by the edge ready to smash me into death. Thats not fun for me. I have only started to do it to even the playing field. I still dislike doing it. Edge hogging is also cheap, but too risky when playing a human foe. At least it is for me. Thats how I feel though, you don't have to agree with me, in fact most of you probably won't.
Often times I play SSBM with my friend (He's on these forums too, Polaris Junkie). I try to tell him about how I find edge guarding cheap. He doesn't understand and goes on to tell me that it is"Part of the Game". The way I see it by waiting by the edge all you are doing is saying that you can beat me up enough to get me off the stage and then block my recovery by waiting near the edge ready to attack. While I agree that it is part of the game, it doesn't make it honorable.
I would much rather fight to the point where I am so damaged that I can't come back under my own power and am forced to either fall to my death or be sent into the background/foreground. Not be beat to 125% or so and then be prevented from recovering by you waiting by the edge ready to smash me into death. Thats not fun for me. I have only started to do it to even the playing field. I still dislike doing it. Edge hogging is also cheap, but too risky when playing a human foe. At least it is for me. Thats how I feel though, you don't have to agree with me, in fact most of you probably won't.
KirbySSB
Smash Ace
If only we called wavedashing "sliding." None of these bull**** threads would be around because people would actually understand the concept and realize there's nothing special about it.
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
... The point of the game is to get your opponent off the screen. What in gods name are you going to do against characters with incredible offensive power (fox/falcon) and no recovery? You HAVE to gimp kill these characters or they will kill you with a knee or an upsmash, without even needing to edgeguard you.
Hon3r!!!! I m4in roy and link!! Ficticious constructs of my imagination for the WIN.. oh wait. For the lose in game, but for the win in my moral superiority complex.
0HN3R!!!!
LOL 125 isn't high enough for you? Most kills happen around 60-90, and some even between 10-40.
I like that you said ''for me'' rather than ''thats not fun'' You're not being an elitist douche like some of the other honor junkies.
No one is going to agree with you because you sound like an extreme newbie. This is not meant to personally offend you, but with a few more months of smash under your belt you wouldnt find edgehogging risky. Just wait for the persons up B and press L to roll back to the stage.
I do see where you're coming from though, back when I was a n00b me and my friends thought it was kind of lame to edgehog, but never to edgeguard.
It even tells you to edgeguard in melee's how to play..
INTERCEPT!!!
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
How is that different? its all edgeguarding to me. INTERCEPT!
whatever he says dont just stand there and do nothing, then mario jumps out and does his fair and bowser doesn't meteor cancel (Meteor cancelling is a glitch and wasnt intended despite being clearly programmed into the game, since they didnt show it in the how to play)
The basic idea though : Knock the person off. Dont let them come back at all costs.
Can't handle it? I dunno, just don't play with people that aren't your friends because no one is going to follow ficticious scrub rules according to codes of honor.
Honor in smash is this :
Try your best. Don't John. Have fun.
- Status