To all the Smashers that have chosen not to wavedash, etc...

[specialsauce]

at first when i heard but wave dashin i didnt think much of it but then i tried it and got used to it and now i cant play a match without not doin it a little it does add a little to the game and can imrove ur fighting greatly same with teching etc. all those advanced techniques are useful, if ur good at them u can really do sum crazy ****,

 

[greenblob]

When someone deliberately refrains from edgeguarding me, I feel insulted.

 

[Darkurai]

Try your best. Don't John. Have fun.

Problem is, most people that do use wavedashing are highly competitive and lost the fun in the need to win.

 

[Adi]

There's plenty of ways to get around an edgeguarder. If you're complaining you aren't doing something right.

 

[IllidR]

Problem is, most people that do use wavedashing are highly competitive and lost the fun in the need to win.

I hate these stupid arguments that once you're competitive it's all balls to the walls and no fun.. COMPETITIVE PEOPLE HAVE FUN DOING WHAT THEY DO!

 

[specialsauce]

Problem is, most people that do use wavedashing are highly competitive and lost the fun in the need to win.

exactly wavedashins fine and is a good way to improve ur game but when all people do is wavedash like crazy it sucks the life right out of the game

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Problem is, most people that do use wavedashing are highly competitive and lost the fun in the need to win.

Can you prove this? Or are you just talking out of your ***.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4821884461795846803

Have you ever watched the east vs west crew battle? (extenderrrrr) This probably had money involved, and it was a big deal. Everyone played to win.

Just watch it, listen to the dialogue, check out the atmosphere. They're having SO much fun.

If you really think playing the game with the intent to win makes it lose its fun, then you're very wrong. You can't back up what you're saying because fun is entirely subjective.

I play to win, all the time, vs anyone I play. I never stop having fun with this game. I love it!

but when all people do is wavedash like crazy it sucks the life right out of the game

No it makes them tipper bait. Wavedash spammers are complete and total newbs who just learned how to do it and think its great. Its really not that great at all, its perfect for a few specific things but its a terrible way to move around with anyone that isnt luigi or the ice climbers.

Dashdancing >>>> Wavedashing back and forth.

Dashdancing =/= pulsewalking for some characters. (dash forward wavedash backwards) but I think DDing is still better than pulsewalking

Walking >>>>>> Wavedashing for spacing too.

Watch a real pro like Mew2king. he rarely wavedashes, he does use it whenever he needs to as his style is near perfect, and he never ever misses his edgeguard.

 

[Adi]

Problem is, most people that do use wavedashing are highly competitive and lost the fun in the need to win.

Oh my ****ing god.

I honestly do not care if I get an infraction for this because these type of posts are pissing me off so ****ing much.

Listen you ****ing ******, fun is subjective. Your definition of fun is different than the next person. While you may have fun slamming your hands against the controller and watching pretty lights appear out of the pokeball, competitive players find fun in challenging themselves and testing their limits. If you want to just jack around an entire match go ahead, but a good amount of people enjoy a little something called intellectual stimulation.

I don't care what you do, it doesn't affect me, but for the love of god, don't you dare try to imply how other people feel.

And also.

STOP ****ING USING WAVEDASHING AS A SYNONYM FOR ADVANCED TECHNIQUES, THE BRAWL DISCUSSION AND THIS THREAD IS A ****ING MONUMENT TO STUPIDITY. I'M SO **** TIRED OF IT.

...

/sigh, well that's the last time I ever visit this thread.

 

[greenblob]

Problem is, most people that do use wavedashing are highly competitive and lost the fun in the need to win.

I'm having more fun with the game than ever before, thanks to advanced techs. And no, it's not because I'm beating everyone--I actively seek out matches in which I will almost always lose.

Most competitive players have been casual players in the past. No casual player has ever been a competitive player. Don't assume that we're not having fun, because we are--in fact, we believe that we're having more fun than you.

 

[Pyroloserkid]

Honor in smash is this :

Try your best. Don't John. Have fun.

Noobs and Scrubs listen up. This is the law in Super Smash Bros.

Problem is, most people that do use wavedashing are highly competitive and lost the fun in the need to win.

'Problem is, you have no idea what you're talking about noob. I wavedash like it's going out of style and I have never once entered a tournament. I'm not over competitive, and fun is what you make it. To me, winning is fun. To all the noobs that lose all the time, they no longer understand the joy and FUN and winning.
Learn to wavedash and stop crying.

exactly wavedashins fine and is a good way to improve ur game but when all people do is wavedash like crazy it sucks the life right out of the game

No, it really doesn't. If you don't want to wavedash, don't compete. Don't play against people who wavedash. Hide under a rock for all I care.
Wavedashing actually breathed life into the competitive scene.

To those who don't edgeguard, wavedash, edge hog, lcancel, shorthop, stage tech, etc. , I hope you don't John when I f*cking Falcon Punch you into next week. And I don't even play Falcon.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Btw people, WAVEDASHING IS A MELEE TOPIC!

We all know that the Havok Engine will remove it, unless it's added manually. But if it's added manually, then it'll be in the instructions manual and will be simple to use, but it won't give you an unfair advantage over your opponent.

Any advanced techniques will be removed. So everyone has a "fair" chance against each other, which is what Brawl is all about.

 

[greenblob]

Just like how Z-canceling, teching, edgehogging, smash DI, short hopping, fast falling, etc. were removed during the transition to Melee?

 

[Overswarm]

I dunno, I've been playing Melee since the day it came out, my friends play a few times a week...I'd say we're all very skilled at the game, definitely not "casual". I don't think it's right to assume that just because I, for example, choose not to use advanced techniques that that instantly implies that I'm not an advanced player.



Haha, well, you may be right...I really have no way of knowing. But there is something to be said about mindgames, which I would say is one my favorite aspects of the game. I still think I could pull my weight around, but again, I have no way of knowing. I would definitely not cry if I lost, as I would expect to.

You're casual.

$100 MM?

Btw people, WAVEDASHING IS A MELEE TOPIC!

We all know that the Havok Engine will remove it, unless it's added manually. But if it's added manually, then it'll be in the instructions manual and will be simple to use, but it won't give you an unfair advantage over your opponent.

Any advanced techniques will be removed. So everyone has a "fair" chance against each other, which is what Brawl is all about.

Actually, the Havok engine just makes it more likely that everyone would have the same (or similar) wavedash lengths.

Havok deals a lot with momentum, and currently in melee the three things that determine your wavedash length is traction, angle, and speed. With the Havok engine (which Brawl is almost certainly not using if you've ever seen the Havok engine used; I'd say its a safe bet it is the same style of engine as Melee, just updated and modified), it'd be more likely to only really look at angle and speed.

In many games with the Havok engine, people will "slide" for unnaturally long amounts of time even though their normal traction will be super high compared to other objects in the game. So if you hit a box onto an angle it will just slide alllll the way down regardless of weight or normal traction. The only difference would be if they personally went in and edited the "sliding" to deal with more than momentum and angle.

Just check out Halo. The Spartan acts like his shoes have velcro attached ot them when he lands or runs, but if he jumps up an angle that he can't stand on and slides down, he moves like butter. If the Spartan had a move that allowed him to move diagonally towards the ground, he'd probably slide like a wavedash.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Just like how Z-canceling, teching, edgehogging, smash DI, short hopping, fast falling, etc. were removed during the transition to Melee?

Yeah cause the Gamecube has a periodic update system too.

 

[Takeshi245]

Just like how Z-canceling, teching, edgehogging, smash DI, short hopping, fast falling, etc. were removed during the transition to Melee?

Owned. By the way, advanced techniques are the reason why I got back into Smash and made things more interesting to play. If it weren't for that, this game would be shallow. I'm way better than I used to be with all the rolling I used to do with my best friend and I. Now, I punish him if he rolls the way I predicted. It's people that are ignorant that want to ruin the depth of the game. So what if someone beat you by wavedashing? You have options, you know. You can either not go up against him and play with people who don't wavedash and not make such a fool out of yourself because he beat you with an advanced technique or begin to think methodically about what happened during the match and figure out a way to beat him. It can be with or without wavedashing.

The thing that suprises me is people that want to get rid of wavedashing because they beat someone and that person made fun of him for beating him. The reason why that person lost was because either he sucked at the game or you were just a better player than he was. It doesn't mean wavedashing shouldn't be in the game.

 

[Black Waltz]

if you dont use advanced techs, dont complain if you lose to someone who does use adv. techs.
and lol at all the nubcaeks in the brawl section.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Owned. By the way, advanced techniques are the reason why I got back into Smash and made things more interesting to play. If it weren't for that, this game would be shallow. I'm way better than I used to be with all the rolling I used to do with my best friend and I. Now, I punish him if he rolls the way I predicted. It's people that are ignorant that want to ruin the depth of the game. So what if someone beat you by wavedashing? You have options, you know. You can either not go up against him and play with people who don't wavedash and not make such a fool out of yourself because he beat you with an advanced technique or begin to think methodically about what happened during the match and figure out a way to beat him. It can be with or without wavedashing.

The thing that suprises me is people that want to get rid of wavedashing because they beat someone and that person made fun of him for beating him. The reason why that person lost was because either he sucked at the game or you were just a better player than he was. It doesn't mean wavedashing shouldn't be in the game.

*points to his last two posts*

 

[Overswarm]

Yeah cause the Gamecube has a periodic update system too.

The game was released in several versions over a long period of time. They updated many changes, especially in PAL, but never once touched wavedashing or l-canceling.

 

[travis.luckiest]

i use to think SWF was for the elite to discuss techniques and strategy ..then i joined it and started reading random threads ..i know better now
wavedashing is so easy and it's part of the game ..intended or not
i love going to tournaments and playing people better than me
..the fun of the game for me is always improving my game
getting better at L-canceling using wavedashing for spacing
..wavedashing isn't even that big of a deal
to beat someone who abuses wavedashing ..you don't need to wavedash to beat him ..you anticipate where he is going to be and what he will be vulnerable to ..like with any technique
it's not the end all "omg he wavedashes ..game over" technique ..it does not win games ..it's how a player uses it ..if you blindly dash attack at him and he wavedashes back then smashes you ..you were being punished for it ..it's a competitive game
..i suggest a new game for any wavedash haters

 

[IllidR]

Yeah cause the Gamecube has a periodic update system too.

You didn't at all catch what he said. He's saying that the 64 Smash had L-cancelling, teching, edge hogging, DI, and all the ones he listed were in SSBM too, and no.. they were not simplified or put in the instruction manual.

 

[Sundown]

For me, personally, it doesn't seem as fun or "honorable" if you're using techniques such as, just an example, edgehogging. I see it a lot in youtube videos and it always makes me wince.

I'm glad I'm going into Brawl clean.

Not another honor code, or honorable bull**** for crying out loud... to me, the only non honorable thing there is would be NOT PLAYING AT THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY TO WIN, because thats an insult to your opponent, i rather be beaten by some1 that does everything he/she can to win, than by some1 that thinks of honor while playing a freaking game.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Btw people, WAVEDASHING IS A MELEE TOPIC!

We all know that the Havok Engine will remove it, unless it's added manually. But if it's added manually, then it'll be in the instructions manual and will be simple to use, but it won't give you an unfair advantage over your opponent.

Any advanced techniques will be removed. So everyone has a "fair" chance against each other, which is what Brawl is all about.

...

You have absolutly no idea what you are talking about. And you are insuniating thing as if they are fact, and your notion of a fair game is warped. In the sense that you want to remove all the progress made from ssb64 to the next one, aka L cancelling, spot dodging, dashdancing (advanced? easy. its in.) Short hopping.

Wavedashing ---> who gives a flying s*** we'll see in like 3 months.

 

[Tanea]

No, in fact L-cancel is most definetely intended considering Z-cancelling was in Smash64 and they nerfed it for Melee.



This is one of the dumbest posts in the history of smashboards.

it was just an idea geez your a jerk

 

[Pluvia's other account]

People will start going online a using techniques that give them an unfair advantage. The millions of casual players will come on and get their ***** kicked. They'll complain about cheating and how they can't hit you if you do that etc, etc. They say that you're using a glitch, and it's not fair.

A few days later, the techniques have been nullified. New ones may be found, and nullified a few days later all over again.

If the majority aren't having fun online, Nintendo will take action. That's what the update system is for. They do this with almost all games that go online these days.

Oh and techniques from 64 that made it into Melee didn't really give the player an unfair advantage, plus they were manually added in.

 

[greenblob]

Intentional or not, they're still advanced techniques.

 

[Takeshi245]

i use to think SWF was for the elite to discuss techniques and strategy ..then i joined it and started reading random threads ..i know better now
wavedashing is so easy and it's part of the game ..intended or not
i love going to tournaments and playing people better than me
..the fun of the game for me is always improving my game
getting better at L-canceling using wavedashing for spacing
..wavedashing isn't even that big of a deal
to beat someone who abuses wavedashing ..you don't need to wavedash to beat him ..you anticipate where he is going to be and what he will be vulnerable to ..like with any technique
it's not the end all "omg he wavedashes ..game over" technique ..it does not win games ..it's how a player uses it ..if you blindly dash attack at him and he wavedashes back then smashes you ..you were being punished for it ..it's a competitive game
..i suggest a new game for any wavedash haters

Thanks for being one of the reasonable people on Smash Boards.

 

[IllidR]

People will start going online a using techniques that give them an unfair advantage. The millions of casual players will come on and get their ***** kicked. They'll complain about cheating and how they can't hit you if you do that etc, etc. They say that you're using a glitch, and it's not fair.

A few days later, the techniques have been nullified. New ones may be found, and nullified a few days later all over again.

If the majority aren't having fun online, Nintendo will take action. That's what the update system is for. They do this with almost all games that go online these days.

Oh and techniques from 64 that made it into Melee didn't really give the player an unfair advantage, plus they were manually added in.

Well was snaking ever fixed in Mario Kart DS?

Also, wavedashing doesn't give an unfair advantage, it's needed to be used right. If a player who knew no advanced techniques versed a player who only knew how to wavedash it's not an automatic win for the wavedasher. And L-cancelling it one of the moves that gives a huge edge to those who use it against those who don't but it's not unfair because they can learn it too and that came from SSB 64.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Well was snaking ever fixed in Mario Kart DS?

Also, wavedashing doesn't give an unfair advantage, it's needed to be used right. If a player who knew no advanced techniques versed a player who only knew how to wavedash it's not an automatic win for the wavedasher. And L-cancelling it one of the moves that gives a huge edge to those who use it against those who don't but it's not unfair because they can learn it too and that came from SSB 64.

I'm not sure the DS works the same way, I know for a fact that you cant use cheat Pokemon on Battle Revolution though.

If it's manually added in like most were in the switch over from 64 to Melee, then that's fine, nobody will complain.

But if it's not, then it'll be removed by the Havok Engine. Those that aren't will be removed by the periodic update system, as they are seen as glitches by the majority.

 

[Pr0g]

These threads are great. You can read the first page, then read the last page, and the same argument is being had. Everybody is saying something, but nobody is listening. People on the smash boards really suck at having debates that go anywhere.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

People will start going online a using techniques that give them an unfair advantage. The millions of casual players will come on and get their ***** kicked. They'll complain about cheating and how they can't hit you if you do that etc, etc. They say that you're using a glitch, and it's not fair.

A few days later, the techniques have been nullified. New ones may be found, and nullified a few days later all over again.

If the majority aren't having fun online, Nintendo will take action. That's what the update system is for. They do this with almost all games that go online these days.

Oh and techniques from 64 that made it into Melee didn't really give the player an unfair advantage, plus they were manually added in.

Yes, because in starcraft 2, I bet youll be able to email your concerns to blizzard and theyll remove them from the game for you. Or, maybe try Halo Online, I hear there are some exploitable thingst here, but with your suggestion, perhaps not?

The advanced techniques, is such a supersticious word. If you play the game once a week, or once a month, you can practice everything ingame. its straightforward.

Keep on dreamin

 

[IllidR]

I'm not sure the DS works the same way, I know for a fact that you cant use cheat Pokemon on Battle Revolution though.

If it's manually added in like most were in the switch over from 64 to Melee, then that's fine, nobody will complain.

But if it's not, then it'll be removed by the Havok Engine. Those that aren't will be removed by the periodic update system, as they are seen as glitches by the majority.

That's different, that's a cheat.. this is merely exploiting the physics of the game which is no cheat or glitch. Like someone said before, there were numerous editions of Melee released including the PAL version and yet moves such as Wavedashing were not removed. If they were thought to be glitches they would have been taken out.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Yes, because in starcraft 2, I bet youll be able to email your concerns to blizzard and theyll remove them from the game for you. Or, maybe try Halo Online, I hear there are some exploitable thingst here, but with your suggestion, perhaps not?

The advanced techniques, is such a supersticious word. If you play the game once a week, or once a month, you can practice everything ingame. its straightforward.

Keep on dreamin

They update games Dylan, that's a fact, not a dream.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

That's different, that's a cheat.. this is merely exploiting the physics of the game which is no cheat or glitch. Like someone said before, there were numerous editions of Melee released including the PAL version and yet moves such as Wavedashing were not removed. If they were thought to be glitches they would have been taken out.

I agree with you there about them not being removed in PAL, but that works with my argument that is if WD is in Brawl, it'll be easy to use and won't give you an unfair advantage. And the Havok Engine is there to stop physics exploiting.

 

[Takeshi245]

That's different, that's a cheat.. this is merely exploiting the physics of the game which is no cheat or glitch. Like someone said before, there were numerous editions of Melee released including the PAL version and yet moves such as Wavedashing were not removed. If they were thought to be glitches they would have been taken out.

Wavedashing didn't show up at the time because no one was actually wavedashing as of yet. However, it's still a fun addition to SSBM and to me, removing it for the sake of removing it would be a bad idea.

 

[IllidR]

I agree with you there about them not being removed in PAL, but that helps my argument that is WD is in Brawl, it'll be easy to use and won't give you an unfair advantage. And the Havok Engine is there to stop physics exploiting.

It doesn't give an unfair advantage now and who says it'll be easier to use? It wasn't made easier to use in the PAL versions and L-cancelling wasn't made easier in Melee.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

It doesn't give an unfair advantage now and who says it'll be easier to use? It wasn't made easier to use in the PAL versions and L-cancelling wasn't made easier in Melee.

Was WD even discovered then? But L-cancelling is clearly supposed to be in Melee, it was added in manually, whereas WD was not.

 

[IllidR]

Was WD even discovered then? But L-cancelling is clearly supposed to be in Melee, it was added in manually, whereas WD was not.

I'm pretty positive it was. Even so now it just comes down to, as said many times, to wait and see if the WD gets added manually in Brawl because they know about it. I'm done with this thread.

 

[JohnPants]

Wow, alright. I was hoping this was buried by the time I checked today, but there it was...first topic on the page. And for good reason too; it seems like one of the touchiest subjects in the Smash community, the battle between (inherently) wavedashing and no wavedashing.

I had no idea though. Looking back at my replies, I've made statements that I think came from the moment...being outnumbered, misquoted, and simplified to a single sentence constantly has a tendency to make you start feeling the way people assume you feel and think the way people are assuming you're thinking, especially when you're attempting to hammer out replies at the speed of light. I probably came off as hostile towards styles of playing I don't use.

So let me completely rephrase and start over. Ignore everything I've said because if you're attempting to find inconsistencies, you'll find them.

I've been playing with the same group of people that have been playing with me since the day the game came out. I'm very used to this style of play and have formulated most of my statements against other ways of playing based on how I think I would feel if someone were to join our group and use them. This includes wavedashing and edgehogging, as examples.

There's nothing wrong with these. I could argue why I think my preference is "better" or "more fun" until I'm blue in the face, but that's completely pointless. Taymond made a very nice reply summing up the reasons why and I don't think I need to repeat what people have been saying. Sure I wouldn't enjoy it if somebody edgehogged in a game with me, and I've made many statements based solely on this feeling, but that's beside the point.

I've realized the difference between competitive players and, as you guys call myself and others, casual players. I understand the distinction now and didn't before. There's no right and wrong, just different ways to play. The environments are completely different and the need to constantly improve and evolve your game and adopting techniques that honestly don't sound as fun to me (learning to wavedashing and implementing it still doesn't sound fun, but that's just personal opinion) as playing a...shall we say, simpler game devoid of even the notion of hitboxes or frames of animation.

But this isn't why I made the topic. At the beginning and up until now I still don't really care who wavedashes and who doesn't. The reason that I created the topic was because of a post I read stating that this certain user would refuse to play Brawl if wavedashing wasn't available. I wanted to understand that mentality more and I think I do now.

But my post/posts seemed to uncover this ugly battle of the two styles of play, and ****...I wish I could go back in time and tell myself that this would happen.

 

[ALB247]

He really does wavedash and you're all immature for believing that he doesn't. This was a test more than a way to tick people off.

Is there wavedashing in Brawl by the way? Considering you have the demo disc and that your brother got in the Beta Test.

 

[Takeshi245]

Okay, JohnPants. If that your reason of opening the topic, then let me tell you something. If by some stupid reason that wavedashing is out, I'll still buy Brawl regardless. That technique alone won't stop me from getting it. However, if Brawl becomes shallow (I highly doubt this game will be shallow) then I'm returning it. Wavedashing is important, but it's situational and not as important as some of the others like L-cancelling and DI.