To all the Smashers that have chosen not to wavedash, etc...

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Its okay Ogre Deity Link. I still think your a good person :D.

LOL, of course you do. I agreed with you didn't I?

Of course, I think this entire argument is more or less actually a question of whether or not ADVANCED TECHS will make their way back to Brawl. I think some will be gone, such as WD, but will be replaced with new ones that the lesser knowledged of us will label "cheap"

(and people like me will groan "bull-spit." at said awesome adv. techs under our collective breaths.)

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

either your casual or not.

i can vouch for the merits of competative play, but i cant understand the logic of casual play.

to me its "ignorance is bliss". you can choose to lock yourself in mental confines, that fine as long as you dont drag anyone with you.

i bet there are a ton of great players (probly younger ones) who are held back because of the community they are in. ****, thats kinda depressing.

 

[commonyoshi]

But, If I were to start wavedashing and L-canceling and stuff like that, it just wouldnt be fun and it wouldnt be fair to everybody else. I would probably win, yes, but at the same time I would

A. get everyone pissed at me
B. have no one want to play with me any more.

Everyone would just call it cheap (which it would be, because I would be the only one doing it).

Whats the fun in that?

Chosen ignorance AND bending to peer pressure. >_>

WhoTF plays a game "as it was meant to be played"? On top of that, who even knows how the creator "wants the game played"? Choosing not to use advanced techniques is just fine, but you forfeit the right to whine and complain when you are annihilated in competitive play (not that we'd let you do that anyway).

<3

We've had this discussion many times already. There is nothing honorable in playing with low tier/"non-cheap" characters, or not using "advanced tactics", or being bad at the game. Stop whining about it and acting all superior-like. "I'm a playin' it how it was meant to be played by having more fun than you are!"

You play to not only to have a good time, but also to win. Anyone who denies that winning is important is a monkey. A dirty monkey. With leprosy.

Edit: Winning is everything. RAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWRRRR!

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Pssht, jeeze, insult half of the Smash Community why don't you?

I'm not saying that causals are as skilled as competitive. Such a claim would be stupid and ignorant. However, I do not like how people like you choose to downgrade casuals like little children that are "ignorant" Yeah, I know about Adv. Techs and I choose not to practice them because I like playing at the level that I'm at, Okay? And I'm not saying Adv. Techs should be taken out of the game because I can't/won't do them. Again, that would not only be stupid, but ignorant as well.

Seriously, I like most of you tourney players, but I really hate the few that act like their way is the right way to play. And yes, I know you didn't specificlally say it Drunken_Dragon, but your tone said it all for me.

Don't degrade casuals, and we (or at least those of us with two brain cells to rub together) won't degrade you. Fair, no?

EDIT: Oh and Winning is NOT everything. It's the enjoyment of the game that really counts. If winning is that top prority for you, take a step back and realize that this is only a game.
...

Rant powers deactivate.

Sorry, almost forgot to turn them off,

 

[commonyoshi]

I never "downgraded" casuals. We were all noobs once. I was mocking those people who chose not to use stuff like L-Canceling and act all smug about it. I dont think I'm super 1337 because I can wave dash. They shoudln't either because they chose not to.


Edit: FOOL! YOU MOCK THE AMAZING 1337-NESS OF WINNING! RAAWRAARARRWAAR!!!

 

[Ess oh Aytch]

Pssht, jeeze, insult half of the Smash Community why don't you?

I'm not saying that causals are as skilled as competitive. Such a claim would be stupid and ignorant. However, I do not like how people like you choose to downgrade casuals like little children that are "ignorant" Yeah, I know about Adv. Techs and I choose not to practice them because I like playing at the level that I'm at, Okay? And I'm not saying Adv. Techs should be taken out of the game because I can't/won't do them. Again, that would not only be stupid, but ignorant as well.

Seriously, I like most of you tourney players, but I really hate the few that act like their way is the right way to play. And yes, I know you didn't specificlally say it Drunken_Dragon, but your tone said it all for me.

Don't degrade casuals, and we (or at least those of us with two brain cells to rub together) won't degrade you. Fair, no?

EDIT: Oh and Winning is NOT everything. It's the enjoyment of the game that really counts. If winning is that top prority for you, take a step back and realize that this is only a game.
...

Rant powers deactivate.

Sorry, almost forgot to turn them off,

Wut. We only get mad when threads about "How the game is supposed to be played" are made. We mostly do not force casuals to play with advanced techniques, and do not call people ignorant unless they say that advanced techniques are worthless and do not augment skill. We don't care if you don't play the way you do; it's mainly the other way around. Casual players complain about losing all the time, just because of advanced techniques. They have to accept that wavedashing, SHFFLing, etc, are used in high level play. It's how the game is played. Either they bother with improving themselves, or shut the **** up.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I never "downgraded" casuals. We were all noobs once. I was mocking those people who chose not to use stuff like L-Canceling and act all smug about it. I dont think I'm super 1337 because I can wave dash. They shoudln't either because they chose not to.


Edit: FOOL! YOU MOCK THE AMAZING 1337-NESS OF WINNING! RAAWRAARARRWAAR!!!

Well, the rant was more towards Drunken_Dragon. Only the last EDIT thingy was referring to you. And yeah, I totally agree, I hate the n00bs who don't use adv. techs but act big and tough and act like they're some world famous champ or something. I know I'm good, but not nearly as good as a lot of people out there.

Oh and yes, I do mock winning because I care about having fun. If I lose, but it's a close game, I still love the game all the more.

EDIT: Oh and SoH, again, I wasn't really talking to the majority of competitive players. Hell, I like most of them. They're a good bunch when you get to know 'em. I'm talking to the really arrogant ******* ones who think that their way is the only way or "you're an idiot"

 

[Miharu]

Pssht, jeeze, insult half of the Smash Community why don't you?

I'm not saying that causals are as skilled as competitive. Such a claim would be stupid and ignorant. However, I do not like how people like you choose to downgrade casuals like little children that are "ignorant" Yeah, I know about Adv. Techs and I choose not to practice them because I like playing at the level that I'm at, Okay? And I'm not saying Adv. Techs should be taken out of the game because I can't/won't do them. Again, that would not only be stupid, but ignorant as well.

Seriously, I like most of you tourney players, but I really hate the few that act like their way is the right way to play. And yes, I know you didn't specificlally say it Drunken_Dragon, but your tone said it all for me.

Don't degrade casuals, and we (or at least those of us with two brain cells to rub together) won't degrade you. Fair, no?

EDIT: Oh and Winning is NOT everything. It's the enjoyment of the game that really counts. If winning is that top prority for you, take a step back and realize that this is only a game.
...

Rant powers deactivate.

Sorry, almost forgot to turn them off,

People can make money off this game in things called tournaments.

And when money's on the line, winning is all that matters.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Oh. Well no one specified that.

 

[DuoKaizane]

I was wrong to classify edgehogging into the same category as wavedashing, but it's definitely playing dirty.

Oh, definitely!
I also consider using the x and y buttons to jump as playing dirty.

I'll use anything that gives me an edge.


-DuoKaizane

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Oh, definitely!
I also consider using the x and y buttons to jump as playing dirty.

I'll use anything that gives me an edge.


-DuoKaizane

Because words typed do not carry the same tone as words spoken, I pray that you are being sarcastic. Cause on the 3% chance you aren't, I'm frightened out of my wits.

 

[DuoKaizane]

Because words typed do not carry the same tone as words spoken, I pray that you are being sarcastic. Cause on the 3% chance you aren't, I'm frightened out of my wits.

Your wits are safe.


-DuoKaizane

 

[chaddd]

Oh...my...um..........

I'm going to pretend I never saw this thread, and everything will be alright.

It never happened.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Thank you. I like to keep them intact. Never know when I might need them.

But ya, I do believe that even if the same Adv. Techs aren't in Brawl, there'll be plenty more to take their place.

 

[Exorcist]

What I hate(yes hate, not dislike or bothers me) about people who say "advanced techs are wrong and blah blah", is not that they don't see the big picture. They just don't. And yes topic creater, that's refering to you too.

You have to realize that a person who is "ok" at the game could use techs, but would that make them good enough to beat anyone? Not necessarly.

If some guy has been playing with advanced techs for years and some other person has also been playing for years but without them, will the first guy win for sure? Not necessarly.

Why? Why is that Exorcist?! Advanced techs just make it better to TRICK and OUTSMART people. They don't friggin cure cancer. They don't assure a win. If you've been playing with advanced techs for years, but some guy that doesn't is better than you, it's because he played more tricky, and smarter than you. Sure the person with the techs would have the advantage but only IF he knew how to use the techs in an unpredictable way.

Tech Chasing(chasing you're opponent's roll or sidedodge) isn't an advance technique really. But do you see the people that say "ADVASE TECHS STUPE" use it? No. Because they are so blinded by the whole "i look down upon that" ****, that they don't learn the true PURPOSE for the techs. The purpose is to play more tricky.

I could beat someone who didn't play with any at all knowledge of advanced play if I wanted to with Peach without even having to use the R or L button once(the key element to almost all advanced techs), but this isn't because I'm god or because I'm "dA supER cHEApnesS, but it's because I know how to play in a way that makes the opponent think on another level and if you're not at the same level as me, they'd miss every attack and eat all of mine.

It's ridiculous that some people think that anything advanced is wrong and dirty so they don't look up anything at all advanced, and in turn can NEVER EVER pull off a proper DI, so they die stupidly early from everything that knocks you far.

Of course this is my opinion. Take it or leave it.

but I bet if the Melee developers saw some modern tournament matches before they released the game they'd be shocked.)

Wow really they would? So on that issue of Nintendo power when they interviewed the developers and asked them if they used advanced techs and they replied with "oh course". Oh, yea they must be shocked beyond comprehension.

 

[DuoKaizane]

Oh, and I saw something about "morale" in this thread.
Are you really trying to tell something they aren't being "morale" when playing?
I can see someone punching you in the face with their controller as immoral, or bad sportsmanship, but using designed functions in the game?


-DuoKaizane

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I actually do all those things and have more fun with the game. You should give it a try for a little while and see how it goes. =D

More about the subject, fun is subjective so we are all entitled to our opinions about what is fun or not or what looks nicer. To me and many others, pro matches look cooler mostly because it has a faster pace (not to mention the combos :o).

I personally like wavedashing, but I could live without it. I just couldn't use the characters that specifically neeeded it due to them being too nerfed.

Side Note: There is more advance techs then just wavedashing.

Of course you can NES, you play with Captain Falcon.

The whole subject of advanced play is often brought up on these forums, yet, it's a mis guided attempt. Most people believe that intentional techniques are more promissing and overall better than the advanced ones. Playing with "honor" is also a rant that is often heard; Believing that we cannot win without technical abuses. Well, contrary to popular belief, you cannot abuse techniques in smash bros. and expect to win. You have to play intelligently to know when to use each technique in a givin situation. If anything, advanced techniques are mainly implemented to gain a strategic advantage. Here is a list of things that portrait the advanced playing format:

1. Strategic play. In every game, there is atleast a minimal amount of strategy in playing. Playing in a strategic style allows for the fight to move beyond the random occuring variables in standard play. Sure, to the conventional player it may seem boring, but all of these assumptions are only based on what they see on youtube. Experiance is one of the most vital elements in advanced smash. You can study and perfect techniques all you want, but it will never guarantee you a win if you lack experianced in all fields of advanced smash.

2. Character selection. Ok, everyone knows that we play Fox. That being said, everyone hates in (Mostly the traditional players). BUt what poeple don't realize is that character counter picking also playes a great role in advanced smash. Sure, alot of people play Fox, bute there are many more charcters that are played. The characters played the in advanced smash are:

Fox
Falco
Marth
Sheik
Peach
Captain Falcon
Samus
Jigglypuff
Mario
Doctor Mario
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Luigi

This is more than a fair share of characters. Here is a list of characters and their match ups:

Balanced Match ups

-Sheik

^^These characters don't fall under any specific categories.

Fox:

Good Match ups:

Everyone but Sheik

Even Match ups: Sheik and Falco (Stage dependant)

Bad Match ups: Ice Climbers (Closest would be Falco on FD)

Marth:

Good Match ups:

Captain Falcon, Ganon, Jiggs, Peach, Samus, Mario, Doc.

Bad Match ups:

Sheik, Falco

These are just a couple of examples of how character counter picking affects tournament play. Fox's may dominate, but they aren't god.

3. Stage Counterpicks. Characters such as Falco bring a great example to character counterpicks. This example derives from Fox vs. Falco. Fox clearly has an advantage over Falco, but only because of the stage availability. Falco has an advantage over Fox on stages such as FC and DL64. Now, about Marth. His advantages are also stage dependant an some situations. He gains throwing advantage on FD, and Tip advantage on Yoshi story. With these advantages, he can play on an even level with many characters in the game.

4.Knowledge and Experiance. Learning how to use advanced techniques may be important, but knowing the opponent and how he/she functions his/her character is more important. Knowing what your opponent can do with their character is most of the time a game breaking situation. An example would be the ability for Peach to Nair out of shield in most situations. If Marth Shffled a Nair at a shielding Peach, the outcome would be diffirent if the opponent does:

(Marth)Spaced Nair= (Peach)Missed Nair

(Marth)No Space= (Peach) Nair Hit

This leaves the opponent above Marth and thus gives him the advantage. That means that Marth can have his way with her if he plays properly.

Taking advantage of missed/landed techs, proper/improper spacing, and good/ bad DI...

Taking advantage of these things should be a priority to any player.

One last thing, the "fun" factor.

Some people say Smash should be played in one specific manner, and that should be the way the developers intended to play. Well, the standard play is only bassed on the demographic it represents. In reality, Smash wasn't intended to play in a specific manner; it was made to be played in variety. If smash bros. created based limited playing options, then why would they offer customization options in the game? The variety of Smash is what keeps the game alive, competative or not.

The other thing that annoys me is how people pass judgements on the competative scene without actual knowledge of it. We actually find the competative scene fun in our own way; testing our skills, competative spirit, sportsmanship, and support. To our bias, this is fun. Because you may enjoy one type of playing doesn't mean that it's universaly accepted. We choose to play advanced smash because we want to move beyond the basics. There is nothing wrong with exceeding your limitations.

I have said this several times, and once again:

"Find your own definition of fun"

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Just for the record, I (in the past few weeks after I joined...man, I was a n00b) don't think that you guys aren't having fun. I'm sure tourney players wouldn't be such if they didn't enjoy it.

 

[Johnknight1]

I was wrong to classify edgehogging into the same category as wavedashing, but it's definitely playing dirty.

YOu don't know dirty until you play with me and my friends. The ultimate mindgaem=WACK the controller out of their hands! SKILLZ!!!!

Seriously, it's not dirty unless you make a player inable to play [ie: taking their controller], trash talk them, or get in their view of the screen. Saying AT is playing dirty is dumb, seriously=end of discussion. I WIN! *evil laugh*

All of a sudden, Fox begins SHFFLing, Peepy screams "Do a Barrel Roll", and Falco yells "WHat 9,000!?!?".

On topic: AT's rule, and exploiting them is very important to winning at high levels of play. Seriously, using them and learning how to use them really gets you much better all around, with ATs and without. Seroiusly, getting better with ATs and stuff with friends makes the game even more fun, especially when you use mindgames [beat that f***ing controller out of their hands! ]. So people, stop hating on ATs. If you don't want to use them, your loss, our gain.

-Johnknight1

edit: "Honor", "Valor", etc. IMO are just not cheating. Seriously, if you were to tell me ot not play with ATs, that's like asking me to stop trying my hardest. That's being "unhonorable", not playing with ATs. You want me to go easy on you, so you can cheat and give yourself a advantage. Seriously, try counterpick character, counterpick courses, etc. beforehand, not this crap.

 

[Adi]

Yup, competitive smash isn't about using the techniques alone. Spacing, mindgames, and general prediction are all things the developers intended and they are one of the biggest aspects of advanced smash.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Just for the record L-Canceling isn't an exploit in the least. But I respect you thoughts. However I've played both ways, advanced and casual and I've had more fun playing with advanced techniques (espically when I get to OWN casual players). I personally do all those advanced techniques and I play what you would call a great Peach (as well as the Ice Climbers). I would never give up my advanced techniques because I've made money and friends through them. And BTW, good luck online without the advanced techniques, because when you run into me... well, you'll see.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

It's why I fear playing online because I would like to play against people like me, not be forced into a match with someone who takes SSB a lot more seriously that I do.

 

[Johnknight1]

It's why I fear playing online because I would like to play against people like me, not be forced into a match with someone who takes SSB a lot more seriously that I do.

That's exactly why I want online smash so bad [well, one of the MANY reasons]. All the easier to get better, observe, and practice. Get better at a game I love.

 

[Exorcist]

Also, am I the only person who's noticed that:

1. This thread should be in the Melee Discussion section, not here

2. Johnpants is talking about honor, but he was the person who lied to almost 30,000 people when he said that he had his hands on a demo disk.

3. Johnpants should have been banned for making such spammy(trolling) topics.

4. This topic has been argued on excessively in like 1000000 threads.

5. Johnpants thinks the only advanced techs are L-canceling and wavedashing, because he refers to all adv techs as "not meant to be in the game" even though 90% of them have been purposely put in the game but just used smarter.

 

[alcheato]

Yeah, even CPU's L-cancel, guys. It was even in SSB64 and I doubt they'll take it out for Brawl. As for wavedashing: since it's a weird phenomenon involving the physics of airdodging into the ground, it may still be in Brawl. I for one just don't give a **** enough to speculate, so till Brawl actually comes out, I simply don't care.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

{I don't use} Shffl, L-cancel, etc. The people I play with don't either...we refrain from using techniques not originally intended to be used

L cancelling was put in the game intentionally. Was a glitch in ssb64, but they noticed it. It used to make you have 0 lag after an aerial, in melee you cut half your life, it was obviously programmed in.

Fastfalling... uh.. yeah. That's part of the game and is required as an essential movement technique, everyone does it naturally from time to time to get to the ground. Short hopping has been around since the first one, it has to do with how hard you hit the button, notice how nintendo likes to make you have different walk speeds depending on the tilt of the stick and the velocity in most of its game? Well the same applies to jumping here.

As for wavedashing: since it's a weird phenomenon involving the physics of airdodging into the ground, it may still be in Brawl. I for one just don't give a **** enough to speculate, so till Brawl actually comes out, I simply don't care.

Right on. You've got the right idea. I cared too much in the past and was all ''Im gunna boycott brawls'' but now I just dont really care at all, Ill wait and see.

 

[dan smith]

To deny progress is to embrace fear and ignorance.

EDIT: Everybody scroll up and read the post by Exorcist. Every point he has made is valid. Especially the one about banning Johnpants. I'd even go as far as to say that we should figure out his IP address and try and hunt him down and enact some form of physical retribution...but I mean...hey...that's just my style.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

That's exactly why I want online smash so bad [well, one of the MANY reasons]. All the easier to get better, observe, and practice. Get better at a game I love.

Well those of us who don't take Smash so seriously shouldn't be punished for it in the form of repetedly getting owned by fierce competitive players, or not playing online at all. Kind of onesided if you ask me...*shrugs*

 

[Johnknight1]

Well those of us who don't take Smash so seriously shouldn't be punished for it in the form of repetedly getting owned by fierce competitive players, or not playing online at all. Kind of onesided if you ask me...*shrugs*

That's why Brawl should have a ranking system=we can play with close level of skill and very close matched opponents. Brawl should definitely have a ranking system. Definitely.


As Tnga said, L-cancelling was purposely put in Melee after SSB64, and shorthopping was definitely intentionally. Not sure about SHFFLing though. <_< Idc if any ATs were intentional to be honest, it's not a glitch/cheat/hackz, so why should I care=??? Sakurai notices and likes the idea of competitve smash, and hopefully he's gonna make Brawl for all of us [especially after Miyamoto gave that push for advanced levels of play].

And yae Exorcist! Spot on, for sure.

 

[Adi]

I've seen the computers shffl occassionally, my computers also edgetech all the time, they have such strange skills =0.

 

[Salaad]

Fox lvl 9 spams SHFFLed Dair. xD

 

[BlueBomber]

For the tournaments and essentially in fun matches I don't think that wavedashing or really any exploitives, save for the occasional edgehog or the annoying wave-shine, make up for the difference in skill.

In all honesty it doesn't make a difference to me to play wave-dashers unless they full time wave grab and the like.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

wow ur like me i never try to wavedash i feel its like cheating all my friends dont wavedash or edgehog and im proud of it

I love how scrubs are more elitist about their style than competitive players, yet they make us seem like the big baddies.

We use em, we don't really care if you do. Not our fault if you lose to someone because you're limiting yourself, kind of tells you something about what you're doing wrong, maybe?

 

[D1]

>_> I really dislike threads like these.

Its like saying...I won't play Halo 2 cuz of BXR or w/e other new technique/glitches that are in the game.

If you don't wanna use wavedashing b/c you don't think:

spacing yourself away from the enemy by wding back, or cutting off the lag of Fox/Falco's shine by wding out, or being able to move around while shielding w/o having to resort to roll all the time by wding out..

Or you don't wanna shffl b/c:

...or being able to do an aerial attack as fast as possible and cutting off the landing lag, or being able to continue certain combos that register as legit combos in the game, yet you don't feel as if you wanna do it cuz of (lack of technical skill?)...

...once a person jumps high in the sky toward me w/o shffling I can already know that they're trying to attack me way before I get hit, if I block the attack and they don't fastfall and L cancel the lag...I'll just easily shieldgrab 'em and **** their sh**...

...I think I'm in the wrong thread...

...IMO anyone who babbles about the uselessness of advanced techniques are just limiting themselves to not wanna get the most out of an already fun game...

...to those that actually take the time to get down advanced techs and play the REAL smash bros. they'll see how fun the game is.

Items can be fun from time to time...but in all seriousness if you play w/ a pro and get down and dirty in a singles match you can REALLY see how intense the game can get despite a few imbalances w/ some chars having clear priority over other chars.

These type of topics asking "who will not use wd and who will not use shffling" are pointless...there's too many of them on this site already.

Quit Life.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

...to those that actually take the time to get down advanced techs and play the REAL smash bros. they'll see how fun the game is.

OH REALLY NOW?

Arrogant...

 

[Psychoace]

I honestly don't ****ing care if they want to hand me their money in tourneys let them.

 

[dan smith]

Let's have a round of 1on1 fights to decide which side of this debate is better. My money is on the people using the advanced techs.

Seriously, what this debate basically comes down to is: "I hate when smashers who're too competitive destroy me with their advanced techs"

Dude...if you're so non-competitive, why do you care if they brutally annihilate you with their flashy and skillfully executed moves? Shouldn't you just sit back and take the savage beating like the truly non-competitive player that you are?

Smash Bros. is a fighting game, if you play a fighting game and don't try and win, why are you playing in the first place? There is no such thing as fighting dirty. There is only a thing known as people who can't stand losing.

 

[BlueBomber]

Honestly I don't think wave-dashing makes that much of a difference.

If one gets to the level where they can wave-dash well, they have probably spent enough time playing the game to be a good player in of itself.

That being said, an advanced-tech user will probably beat a non advanced-tech user without having to use those techs, simply because they are (MOST of the time) better players.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Let's have a round of 1on1 fights to decide which side of this debate is better. My money is on the people using the advanced techs.

Seriously, what this debate basically comes down to is: "I hate when smashers who're too competitive destroy me with their advanced techs"

Dude...if you're so non-competitive, why do you care if they brutally annihilate you with their flashy and skillfully executed moves? Shouldn't you just sit back and take the savage beating like the truly non-competitive player that you are?

Smash Bros. is a fighting game, if you play a fighting game and don't try and win, why are you playing in the first place? There is no such thing as fighting dirty. There is only a thing known as people who can't stand losing.

100% Agreed. Pfft.... I don't necessarily using the advance tech to win, I don't care if I lose that much... i just enjoy pwning noobs in style.

 

[cyberdemon]

Let's have a round of 1on1 fights to decide which side of this debate is better. My money is on the people using the advanced techs.

Seriously, what this debate basically comes down to is: "I hate when smashers who're too competitive destroy me with their advanced techs"

Dude...if you're so non-competitive, why do you care if they brutally annihilate you with their flashy and skillfully executed moves? Shouldn't you just sit back and take the savage beating like the truly non-competitive player that you are?

Smash Bros. is a fighting game, if you play a fighting game and don't try and win, why are you playing in the first place? There is no such thing as fighting dirty. There is only a thing known as people who can't stand losing.

Well said.

This is one of the posts that could put at end to this pathetic attempt of a thread