Tier Triangle

[JPOBS]

im glad someone figured out that tires dont exits.

 

[Denzi]

Good idea, but it lacks effort, time discussion, unbiased opinion, etc.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Wait. I have this super awesome amazing idea. Why dont we take all 3 of these factors, consider them all equally, and put the characters into a big list that orders their averages from highest to lowest. OH wait....

 

[JPOBS]

Wait. I have this super awesome amazing idea. Why dont we take all 3 of these factors, consider them all equally, and put the characters into a big list that orders their averages from highest to lowest. OH wait....

lmfao!!!!!

 

[sonic 12111]

what is the point of this

 

[Amarkov]

Good idea, but it lacks effort, time discussion, unbiased opinion, etc.

An incomprehensible chart with 30 hours of effort is still an incomprehensible chart.

 

[YagamiLight]

I think this is the wrong way to go about doing this.

First off, you can't base every character on 3 categories. It's just not as simple as that. You'll have to create even more dimensions and it'll look pretty shoddy if you do it like that.

The most logical way to organize every character is to make a, say, hexagon for every character where each of the corners represents an attribute. Say power, speed, range, priority, weight and recovery, for example. Make one for every individual character then make a giant hexagon with all of the characters ranked. It'll be fairly subjective, of course, but better than this.

 

[dainbramage]

Doesn't Britain spell it "offence/defence"? Also "honour"?

Pretty much every english-speaking country except for the US spells it offence/defence/honour/colour/etc.

 

[Adler]

I'm not going to give up with this.
I'm not taking into account anyone's Opinion who can't be bothered to read the entire Post and jump to Conclusions.

So far I've got that Snake needs to be more Defence based and the Picture needs to be bigger.
Four Pages of Posts and that's about it.

 

[DKKountry]

I'm not going to give up with this.
I'm not taking into account anyone's Opinion who can't be bothered to read the entire Post and jump to Conclusions.

Hold on there buckaroo, don't go flattering yourself too much there. Your post wasn't so long that no one took the time to read it all the way through.

I'm sure everyone here read your post all the way through even though it robbed us of a whole 30 seconds and it's still a bit silly to say that you have a deeper understanding of the game than the Back Room did when they made the tier list.

 

[Adler]

If people are asking questions which I already answered then they obviously aren't reading it.

 

[Doomblaze]

Putting it bluntly, we're saying that you need to put alot more thought into this kind of thing before you make it.

As in, your whole idea is flawed...

look through all of the boards and all of the threads before you try this
lol

 

[smasher?o.0]

why is mk not in the middle?

 

[Kirby Redux]

I think this is the wrong way to go about doing this.

First off, you can't base every character on 3 categories. It's just not as simple as that. You'll have to create even more dimensions and it'll look pretty shoddy if you do it like that.

The most logical way to organize every character is to make a, say, hexagon for every character where each of the corners represents an attribute. Say power, speed, range, priority, weight and recovery, for example. Make one for every individual character then make a giant hexagon with all of the characters ranked. It'll be fairly subjective, of course, but better than this.

This is a really good idea and yet you are shutting all ideas out... Listen to the people posting. They are trying to help. You can't shut out God and expect him to still like you. (Bad analogy, but still, you get the idea).

 

[Adler]

"All ideas?" Of course not.
I don't take into account the people who don't know what they're talking about, not everyone (believe it or not I am taking Notes, including the exact Suggestion you quoted).

And besides this is a first Draft I'm going to change it later and perhaps rethink the whole Idea, but I need Suggestions on what to rethink it into.

 

[n88]

I think this is the wrong way to go about doing this.

First off, you can't base every character on 3 categories. It's just not as simple as that. You'll have to create even more dimensions and it'll look pretty shoddy if you do it like that.

The most logical way to organize every character is to make a, say, hexagon for every character where each of the corners represents an attribute. Say power, speed, range, priority, weight and recovery, for example. Make one for every individual character then make a giant hexagon with all of the characters ranked. It'll be fairly subjective, of course, but better than this.

This is the best suggestion you're going to get. These people who are criticizing the chart have read the post and understand it very well. Your chart is merely far too simple to do the job you want it to do.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Do it like the pokemon strategy guides :D

 

[lmntolp]

If you want to add more categories, the best way is to make a pentagon or other odd-cornered shape (make sure all the sides are the same length so it's easier to read). Don't use a square, octagon, etc, because those hold only half as many categories. You should also rename defense to "survivability" because it's not the opposite of offense the way you defined it.
Also, I don't think averaging the knockback of every move is best for offense, and same for speed. PK Flash is rly strong, but it's also rly hard to land if you want to charge it. Basically, if ppl don't use a move often, it shouldn't count as much. I think this is a good idea, but it needs tons more work, and it might not be enough to display one point for each character.

 

[camzaman]

I love how people diss the idea just because the execution is bad. Take the idea and execute it better then, you whiners.

 

[Flamingo]

Haha cool creation

 

[streetracr77]

This doesn't make any sense and I don't understand the point of it.

 

[Nexus Bond]

Er....

Unfortunately it's just not accurate....nor does it prove anything?
I'll use the example that people are most familiar with. MK is faster than falco....He has a better offense than Ganon by far....and a much better defense than Wario...

Why in the world is snake in the offensive rather than the defensive section?

Basically you have everything really wrong and.....it doesn't prove anything even if it was right X_X Characters are more than just three simple attributes(that aren't even unique from each other. Why can't a character have speed, a decent offense, and a decent defense? In theory that character would be smack dab in the middle and seem to be a failure at EVERYTHING, when really they were just moderate at everything.

So...ya....

Let me start off with a sorry in advance if what I am saying has already been said. I don't have the time to read right now, might edit this later.
Feardragon, and all who say they don't understand this- What he is doing is comparing the character's offense, defense, and speed with itself. Yes, to use your example, Metaknight would be near the top in each category, but he is in the opinion that Metaknight's speed is better than HIS OWN offense and defense. This, in no way to my understanding, relates the characters to each other, the characters are just placed based on THEIR OWN attributes. Um... I hope you understood that, and I know my English isn't that great (I'm relying on Firefox's spellchecker )

 

[Ilucamy]

Hey this is a cool idea ^^

I mean, your definitions of each idea are a little skewed and it's kinda inaccurate, but with a little hard work, it could turn into a pretty cool thing ^^

I can't really help you with this (lol don't know much) but here's my advice.

1. Get a better idea of the 3 stats, what you have now isn't exactly right.
2. Kinda verify what you're doing (it's hard to understand you're comparing the characters to themselves and not the other characters)
3. Get some more info on the characters, it goes much deeper than you may think

This looks pretty cool, don't give up on it ^^

 

[towelie892]

Great idea, however it's very poorly researched and executed. I understand its purpose and what placement on the chart means, but perhaps you should explain it better for those who just aren't "getting" it.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

I like it, but it needs work. Snake reall needs to be more around DDD, and Charizard i really fast, better than his recovery and defense game atleast

 

[Fasano]

yeah I pretty much disagree with at least 75% of the chart.

you're claiming that, basicly, snake has no defense, and MK has no offense?

 

[zamz]

The main problem about this chart is that it CAN'T be used to compare one character to another. You're basically saying even though Falco's placed towards the bottom left, he isn't a better or a worse character than Ganondorf who is towards the top. Instead, Falco is oriented around "speed," and Ganon is oriented around "offense." Essentially, you're making the blanket statement that all characters are equal, and they have their own stat-biases that make them worth maining. In other words, I should look at this chart and think about what stats I like most in a character. If I like your definition of "speed," I should main a fast character like Jiggs and, using her fast advantage, compete at a competitive level.

But that's certainly not the case. There ARE better characters, and there ARE worse characters. This chart can't be use for comparison, and the chart doesn't take into account matchups or characters who are genuinely better or worse. It doesn't take into account that MK tops the list in all three categories. Thus, the chart means absolutely nothing.

I know you spent a lot of time on this, but I really don't see how the chart can be of use. It's kinda cool to look at, but other than seeing your opinion on each character's favored trait...what's the point? How can this help progress Smash's metagame? What does this chart mean to me? How can I use it?

...And how does this prove tiers don't exist? (Which seemed to be your main point, if I understand your first paragraph correctly. You're upset that tiers have such a high weight in brawl, but this chart has no basis for suggesting otherwise. If anything, your chart reinforces my belief that tiers do exist. Because, again, MK tops the list in all three categories...)

 

[ExCeL 52]

Wait. I have this super awesome amazing idea. Why dont we take all 3 of these factors, consider them all equally, and put the characters into a big list that orders their averages from highest to lowest. OH wait....

You my friend.. are an *******..

This is a great idea and with much more effort could in fact be BETTER than the tier list.

It could solve many problems such as which character someone wants to use...
god i dont even feel like gettin into it...

Do you even know what a tier list is? Its RANKS IN TOURNAMENTS DUMB ****.

 

[XxBlackxX]

You my friend.. are an *******..

This is a great idea and with much more effort could in fact be BETTER than the tier list.

It could solve many problems such as which character someone wants to use...
god i dont even feel like gettin into it...

Do you even know what a tier list is? Its RANKS IN TOURNAMENTS DUMB ****.

who's the real dumb*** here?
a tier list is NOT ranks in tournaments >_>

 

[_Phloat_]

You my friend.. are an *******..

This is a great idea and with much more effort could in fact be BETTER than the tier list.

It could solve many problems such as which character someone wants to use...
god i dont even feel like gettin into it...

Do you even know what a tier list is? Its RANKS IN TOURNAMENTS DUMB ****.

Read the first post on the "Character rankings list"

"*******"

 

[WouW]

Do you even know what a tier list is? Its RANKS IN TOURNAMENTS DUMB ****.

I could have sigged this, but I felt that that would be too sad.

 

[Icy_Eagle]

The concept of this chart is flawed to begin with. The placement of characters is decided by their own individual strengths, regardless of other characters, doesn't adress their weak points making character comparison useless

Basically, me attempting to tl;dr what zamz wrote.

If this is supposed to work there'd have to be a individual "power graph" for each character, instead of lugging them all into one and there'd have to be more stats listed than just those 3. KO-ability, gimping, recovery, weight, combo-ability (in b4 lol combos in brawl), range, etc. (just listing some random things, it could be less or more). Basically make it akin to databooks stats you can find for some manga.

example from naruto databook 3:

each corner is for
-Ninjutsu
-Taijutsu
-Genjutsu
-Intelligence
-(Physical) Strength
-Speed
-Stamina
-Seals
http://www.imagefrog.net/out.php/i2512_char2.0.PNG

 

[MK26]

Let me start off with a sorry in advance if what I am saying has already been said. I don't have the time to read right now, might edit this later.
Feardragon, and all who say they don't understand this- What he is doing is comparing the character's offense, defense, and speed with itself. Yes, to use your example, Metaknight would be near the top in each category, but he is in the opinion that Metaknight's speed is better than HIS OWN offense and defense. This, in no way to my understanding, relates the characters to each other, the characters are just placed based on THEIR OWN attributes. Um... I hope you understood that, and I know my English isn't that great (I'm relying on Firefox's spellchecker )

The main problem about this chart is that it CAN'T be used to compare one character to another. You're basically saying even though Falco's placed towards the bottom left, he isn't a better or a worse character than Ganondorf who is towards the top. Instead, Falco is oriented around "speed," and Ganon is oriented around "offense." Essentially, you're making the blanket statement that all characters are equal, and they have their own stat-biases that make them worth maining. In other words, I should look at this chart and think about what stats I like most in a character. If I like your definition of "speed," I should main a fast character like Jiggs and, using her fast advantage, compete at a competitive level.

But that's certainly not the case. There ARE better characters, and there ARE worse characters. This chart can't be use for comparison, and the chart doesn't take into account matchups or characters who are genuinely better or worse. It doesn't take into account that MK tops the list in all three categories. Thus, the chart means absolutely nothing.

I know you spent a lot of time on this, but I really don't see how the chart can be of use. It's kinda cool to look at, but other than seeing your opinion on each character's favored trait...what's the point? How can this help progress Smash's metagame? What does this chart mean to me? How can I use it?

...And how does this prove tiers don't exist? (Which seemed to be your main point, if I understand your first paragraph correctly. You're upset that tiers have such a high weight in brawl, but this chart has no basis for suggesting otherwise. If anything, your chart reinforces my belief that tiers do exist. Because, again, MK tops the list in all three categories...)

Nexus put everything good about the pic into one post. Zamz put everything bad about the pic into one post. I don't mean to be condescending, but which post is longer?

 

[Garquille14]

The question here is, what exactly does the final product of this portray? All it tells us is the most balanced characters. The characters closest to the center are the most balanced across all three subdivisions. While Jigglypuff might be the farthest out in terms of speed, that doesn't say she is the fastest. That means her speed heavily outweighs both her offense and defense. You'd assume Sonic would be further than her, but his offense and defense aren't as unbalanced and pull him closer to the center.

This is an interesting idea, but it only does one thing - tell us who the most balanced characters. It's an interesting side project, but it cannot replace a tier list. A tier list tells us who the best characters are, this tells us how even their 3 subdivisional strengths are.

 

[rathy Aro]

Take the word tier out as this has nothing to do with rankings.

And I really would like to know what this is supposed to show. The only thing I could imagine is it shows how balanced a character is in the three areas (as the above post says), but that's not really worth the effort it would take.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Nope. this doesn't work.

besides it doesn't contribute to anything.

 

[MuraRengan]

THIS THREAD MAKES ME WANT TO EAT ALUMINUM FOIL.

Spoiler

caps

 

[dark-war-cloud]

The Ufc fighters are scared of this concept.
I don't know anyone who would get that.