Tier List Speculation

[TTTTTsd]

I bash on him cause he said "Fox is broken but it's fine" but then he claims Ike is (which I heavily disagree with lmao, and so does most of the top players) and then it's...not fine? I'm sorry M2K that's not how it works, at all.

He said Falco was too but I disagree with that too, I think P:M has handled Flaco pretty well.

 

[PlateProp]

Let's all get mad and ***** because a pro player has a different opinion!

Kay

 

[TTTTTsd]

Nah I'm just upset he's justifying one char being broken and complaining about another one being broken while saying that only one of them (the one he doesn't play, huh) should get nerfed.

 

[Ripple]

its pretty clear you didn't actually read what we said, so you should just leave

 

[PlateProp]

But m2k says that Fox is op in 3.5, and has talked about wanting melee tops to be nerfed

Melee tops

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Its Gahtzu all over again, but with Ally

I'm sorry duder but I don't quite get the reference lol. I'm assuming m2k just got thrashed pretty hard and it wasn't anything specific.

To be fair, I usually agree with m2k's opinion on characters....unless he just played someone and he's johning lol, just ignore it.

 

[Jamwa]

You know who's broken? Olimar.

For some reason there's this stupid light that tells my opponent what pikmin is next in my line. Is this intended?

 

[PlateProp]

I'm sorry duder but I don't quite get the reference lol. I'm assuming m2k just got thrashed pretty hard and it wasn't anything specific.

To be fair, I usually agree with m2k's opinion on characters....unless he just played someone and he's johning lol, just ignore it.

God tier post

 

[TTTTTsd]

I specifically remember him saying that, and I believe that this is a summary, not verbatim

"Spacies are broken but they're only broken when they're perfect" and that this was basically fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I am DAMN positive he said that. I just think it's hilarious that someone could like, say that unironically.

But the real main point is that this happens a lot more and it HAS happened a lot in the past. It's out of nowhere and there's been no explicit evidence beyond a statement of "he's OP" and like, a few things about Side-B having priority in the interview I think? Not really a lot to go off of.

 

[PlateProp]

I specifically remember him saying that, and I believe that this is a summary, not verbatim

"Spacies are broken but they're only broken when they're perfect" and that this was basically fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I am DAMN positive he said that. I just think it's hilarious that someone could like, say that unironically.

And? How does that affect him saying that melee tops still need nerfs?

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So who else gets to be broken when being played perfectly? Like saying that is like running around the issue that they're broken, so I'm glad we established that.

 

[Jamwa]

I just think it's hilarious that someone could like, say that unironically.

These days m2k has been more of a post-metamodernist ironic pseudo-intellectual. The movement stemmed from new sincerity (probably why you're surprised, not many ppl know about it).

 

[TTTTTsd]

And? How does that affect him saying that melee tops still need nerfs?

From the context of the interview (could be memory, could be bias, could be ANYTHING, M2K is kind of hard to interpret in some of these) it seemed like he WASN'T implying spacies needed a nerf. It's just the way he went about saying it, that's the message I got.

My real issue is that "Ike is OP" is such a blanket, random statement and there was no real good like, reasoning behind it even when asked. It's just sort of irksome that people are probably gonna take his word for it, no matter how few, without like, asking WHY.

WHY is super important. (I mean it doesn't help that this happens a lot when a character wins a major but that's a different story)

 

[GabPR]

I'm sorry duder but I don't quite get the reference lol. I'm assuming m2k just got thrashed pretty hard and it wasn't anything specific.

To be fair, I usually agree with m2k's opinion on characters....unless he just played someone and he's johning lol, just ignore it.

As many are aware, M2K Had the opinion that Falcon was the best in the game. But, he only started expressing that opinion AFTER Gahtzu beat him using Falcon. Now its the same, but with Ally and Ike. He also said things like Lucas was overnerfed, which was based on his impresion on his matches against pinkfresh. All in all, he seems to be swapping player ability with character ability, and I cant really take his opinion seriously given this.

 

[JOE!]

The only thing that is even remotely kinda silly on Ike is that QD on the ground can cover any of your reactions to it on reaction due to the sheer amount of options (mainly the quick QD attack). But that is still not really bad as it is a mix-up of sorts.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Oh yeah, I remember him talking to iori about that at KIT. I agree that falcon is really really good in this game, but best in the game is a hell of a stretch, top ten easy though. All the rest...yeah that's pretty silly. He played a couple friendlies with a friend of mine, and after almost losing a game said link was still op....yeah ok dude lmao.

 

[ChiePet]

But m2k says that Fox is op in 3.5, and has talked about wanting melee tops to be nerfed

Melee tops

Please. No further nerfing peach. she's still top 10 to me in PM, she even has more AT than before that makes her so much better (if you can handle her-) I can't imagine what a single nerf would do to her.

and dear god jigglypuff's been through enough guys.

 

[eideeiit]

Please. No further nerfing peach. she's still top 10 to me in PM, she even has more AT than before that makes her so much better (if you can handle her-) I can't imagine what a single nerf would do to her.

and dear god jigglypuff's been through enough guys.

Nearly no one wants to nerf anyone but Fox. Also it was M2k who said Melee tops should be nerfed, and basically everything here since Shots Fired has been about how no one should take M2k's post-tournament statements one bit more seriously than my opinion of the current Mewtwo having possibly more potential than NTSC Melee Fox.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I'm probably alone on this, but I kinda want to nerf everyone to some degree. Top tiers are definitely number one on the nerf list though.

Edit - Couple exceptions of course, the low tier characters are pretty garbo

 

[B.W.]

You know who's broken? Olimar.

For some reason there's this stupid light that tells my opponent what pikmin is next in my line. Is this intended?

Holy ****, thank you. PMDT kept telling me "Olimar changes are happening, it's great, you're gonna love it" and 3.5 hits and he's nerfed to hell and I'm like "what am I supposed to love?" And they're all "look he's got a light, now you know what Pikmin is next."

... I ALWAYS knew what Pikmin was next, I'M the one playing Olimar! It's part of learning the damn character!

Even the light is technically a nerf because now my opponent knows what Pikmin is next without having to actually pay attention and I STILL don't even use the light!

 

[eideeiit]

The light is made even funnier when you remember that new players are always stressed to "watch the opponent, not yourself"

 

[trash?]

I find it funny the way everyone just bashes m2kfor having an opinion. I guess it'll be cool if I call everyone a ****ing moron when they post anything here now

see, there's context to be had before you do this

although we would call you a moron, FWIW

 

[PlateProp]

see, there's context to be had before you do this

although we would call you a moron, FWIW

Someone didn't read the social thread

 

[Deleted member]

see, there's context to be had before you do this

although we would call you a moron, FWIW

actually i agree with him, god forbid anyone make judgments based on their observations

its okay with being wrong on the internet sometimes

 

[didds]

uh oh

what do the boards do when Umbreon agrees with the guy people wanna be mad at?

 

[Deleted member]

uh oh

what do the boards do when Umbreon agrees with the guy people wanna be mad at?

curl up with my autograph and starve

 

[Soft Serve]

uh oh

what do the boards do when Umbreon agrees with the guy people wanna be mad at?

blame fox and then everyone agrees again

 

[didds]

I have a better idea, I'm going to ask why *insert random okay character* is rated so low on all the lists I see when he has *insert random and generic positive attributes character has* to work with.

I'll also ignore my brain when it tells me you can do this with most okay characters.

I'll probably pick squirtle since plate is around and I forgot whether or not Squirtle sucks.

 

[Deleted member]

God, I'm so close to hitting "Unwatch Thread" sometimes

and then I realize that I can michaeljacksonpopcorn.gif instead of posting

 

[didds]

then just leave, WE'RE BREAKING NEW GROUND HERE BUDDY!

 

[PlateProp]

I have a better idea, I'm going to ask why *insert random okay character* is rated so low on all the lists I see when he has *insert random and generic positive attributes character has* to work with.

I'll also ignore my brain when it tells me you can do this with most okay characters.

I'll probably pick squirtle since plate is around and I forgot whether or not Squirtle sucks.

Ayyyy

 

[trash?]

uh oh

what do the boards do when Umbreon agrees with the guy people wanna be mad at?

I get to remind everyone of that one time umbreon got really mad and called for money matches because nobody else gets as emotional over roy's dtilt as he does

we're all talking in a tier list thread, and we are all awful as a result, nobody is exempt

 

[Boiko]

I think Bowser is better than people give credit for. <__<

I'm not saying he's like, super good or anything, just slept on.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I get to remind everyone of that one time umbreon got really mad and called for money matches because nobody else gets as emotional over roy's dtilt as he does

we're all talking in a tier list thread, and we are all awful as a result, nobody is exempt

He did that on roy's dtilt? I thought it was something else in this thread. Or maybe he did that and then did it again in here as well.

 

[CyberZixx]

So, what makes Tink so good?

 

[Deleted member]

So, what makes Tink so good?

Incredible mobility, great recovery, safe normals, **** load of damage output, great combo throw, projectiles that hitconfirm into said tons of % or kills, disjoints, insane kill power, other small things like a stupid af spot dodge

His only real problems are not being fox, being awful at combo'ing true FFers until mid %, and having a bad tech roll.

 

[Boiko]

Incredible mobility, great recovery, safe normals, **** load of damage output, great combo throw, projectiles that hitconfirm into said tons of % or kills, disjoints, insane kill power, other small things like a stupid af spot dodge

His only real problems are not being fox, being awful at combo'ing true FFers until mid %, and having a bad tech roll.

Could you speak to the Tink-Marth MU? I've heard it going both ways.

 

[CyberZixx]

So basically the same strengths in 3.0. And people were all worried about 3.5 tink.

 

[TreK]

I'm labbing with Ike and Lucario to figure out those characters (and more importantly, how to shut them down), and I'm seeing a few things that surprised me.

Just in case someone who's reading this is as clueless as me and wants to be slightly less clueless :
-there's no minimum distance on Ike's QD. He can input a jump or his QD attack on the second frame after releasing the charge, and he doesn't move during the first one because of the physics delay. The reason it looks that way is that Ike slides during his jump squat and his QD attack. So yeah my initial idea of rolling towards Ike when I see him charging seems to be a bad one.
-Ike's QD attack hits on frame 2.
-Lucario players claim that he's weak to CC. As in, actual CC, and not just ASDI down. If you ASDI down, you may be able to sneak in a jab or a shine, but definitely not a grab.

Oh and if you want to check out more quality Ike footage to understand the character better, here are the replays from McSmashter 4 feat Ally vs Kage and Armada.

The light is made even funnier when you remember that new players are always stressed to "watch the opponent, not yourself"

Dude you have no idea how many Solar Beams I've wasted because I wasn't watching my Ivysaur and wanted to wavebounce all around the place lmao

 

[B.W.]

T.Link kind of got nerfed from 3.0, but with the mass changes all around it kind of ended up putting him in the same spot, if not a better spot, than before.