D
Deleted member
Guest
All I know is that toonlink is bottom 5
bufffffffffffffffffssssssssssssssssssssssss
bufffffffffffffffffssssssssssssssssssssssss
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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
C-Tier logic, in fact
Also ROB is mid tier can he get some mid tier buffs
An actual shield would be a great start
Also ROB is mid tier can he get some mid tier buffs
An actual shield would be a great start
Also dsmash should send over his shoulder instead of up and away. Kind of a pseudo DI mix-up where good DI for over the shoulder would SDI you during the multi hits onto the other side of him meaning the good DI angle for the last hit changes to the other direction since you've swapped sides. So you'd need good timing to get good DI for that last hit, instead of holding the stick in anticipation. Over the shoulder Dsmashes are pretty common for CC heavy characters anyways
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MLGF
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 1,922
I find it the opposite, people revel in using bottom tiers so they can tier john.
You see it at all levels too sadly, the first person to come to mind is Hax pre 20XX.
It's funny because M2K's Falcon got closer to beating PP then Hax's Fox ever did.
You see it at all levels too sadly, the first person to come to mind is Hax pre 20XX.
This logic is so poor because "bad" and/or "low tier" is completely relative to each individual game.
Case in point: Ganon is a top 15 character in Melee maybe top 12, has been buffed in the transition to PM, and is arguably the single worst character in PM. The balance in PM is incredibly tight to be at the point where a low tier character in PM easily competes with a mid tier in Melee.
Mind you, I'm not actually saying if Olimar is bad or not.
That was Falcon vs Marth though. That's so much different than Hax with Falcon running into 3-4 Falcos and Sheiks in bracket lol.
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Oracle
Smash Master
olimar is broken
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
@
Oracle
Until I deleted my save a few minutes ago, my Wii had a glitched olimar with a white pikmin that could infinite with back throw.
All characters, went til 999%, and led into any finisher.
Instead of throwing them, it would just grab release them that frame, facing away from olimar so they slid towards him, stuck in the grounded throw release animation, but they stilt took damage somehow.
Almost thought it was a legit throw glitch until I tested in dolphin and it didn't work
Moral of story: olimar broke my wii
Oracle
Until I deleted my save a few minutes ago, my Wii had a glitched olimar with a white pikmin that could infinite with back throw.All characters, went til 999%, and led into any finisher.
Instead of throwing them, it would just grab release them that frame, facing away from olimar so they slid towards him, stuck in the grounded throw release animation, but they stilt took damage somehow.
Almost thought it was a legit throw glitch until I tested in dolphin and it didn't work
Moral of story: olimar broke my wii
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
Charizard is not trash.
Ness is arguably in the lower half of the cast and could use some touching up.
Ness is arguably in the lower half of the cast and could use some touching up.
JUSTN
Smash Apprentice
have you seen Jceaser's ROB? its ****ing crazy, he *****. that guy alone gets ROB out of low tier
Your spellchecker has come across some massive errors. It will now input the correct message:
"Have you seen
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Drinking food did beat sethlon using rob.
Oracle
Smash Master
i hear oracleq has the best ridley
@
DrinkingFood
What if ROB is only mid-tier on your glitched Wii
DrinkingFood
What if ROB is only mid-tier on your glitched Wii
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Paradoxium
Smash Master
Drinkingfood's Rob can camp twice as hard as Jcaesar's, thus making Df the superior Rob.
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Ali Baba 177
Smash Journeyman
Ssoo everyone pretty much agrees that Charizard and DK are a step above the other 3 bigs?
The hardest thing to accept on this page is the low tier speculated characters because no one wants to say who is the worst because everyone is good. Id say that Oli Jiggs and Ice C are the worst because other characters are better in the large scheme of things, those three just cant really deal with a lot of the cast. Yes, they win some MU's and when someone good is playing them they can win bad MU's in addition to playing against them probably has a lot of people in unexpected MU/low tier gimmick situations.
If that makes sense at all
The hardest thing to accept on this page is the low tier speculated characters because no one wants to say who is the worst because everyone is good. Id say that Oli Jiggs and Ice C are the worst because other characters are better in the large scheme of things, those three just cant really deal with a lot of the cast. Yes, they win some MU's and when someone good is playing them they can win bad MU's in addition to playing against them probably has a lot of people in unexpected MU/low tier gimmick situations.
If that makes sense at all
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POOB
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 221
In my opinion, it goes zard, then dedede, then DK, then Bowser, then ganon. I think you are underestimating Dedede and overestimating DK.
steelguttey
mei is bei
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2014
- Messages
- 1,674
olimar isnt the best character, im not gonna deny that. but he should NOT be grouped with ice climbers and jigglypuff. jigglypuff has one way to reliably kill now due to recoveries being so good and ice climbers just dont have enough damage as melee and brawl anymore. olimar is a reliable character who has good matchups with a good half of the cast. jigglypuff and ice climbers lost all of their good matchups and amazing traits. olimar simply changed from brawl to pm
Problem2
Smash Champion
Honestly, I think Ganondorf > Bowser.
To list all the big characters, I would rank them:
Charizard > King Dedede > DK > Rob > Ganondorf > Bowser
Olimar is not one of the worst characters. He's a small character that hits hard and with range and with meaty, long lasting hit boxes. And for all of these perks, he's still decently mobile. He has a fast oos u-smash, hard hitting guaranteed combos out of d-throw, a kill throw, a fast meteor smash, and a tether recovery that actually attacks the ledge as it tethers.
He does have some weaknesses because he has to manage pikmin. His pikmin rarely die because how much health they have, but you can still knock them really far away from Olimar to where he has to wait for them to return. He can resort to whistle to get them back faster, but if you're pressuring him, he can't whistle for free. Pikmin in PM also tend to desynch from Olimar while in the line-up and strange stuff will happen like them falling off stage for no reason, but this is somewhat rare and isn't something opponents can reliably count on happening.
To list all the big characters, I would rank them:
Charizard > King Dedede > DK > Rob > Ganondorf > Bowser
Olimar is not one of the worst characters. He's a small character that hits hard and with range and with meaty, long lasting hit boxes. And for all of these perks, he's still decently mobile. He has a fast oos u-smash, hard hitting guaranteed combos out of d-throw, a kill throw, a fast meteor smash, and a tether recovery that actually attacks the ledge as it tethers.
He does have some weaknesses because he has to manage pikmin. His pikmin rarely die because how much health they have, but you can still knock them really far away from Olimar to where he has to wait for them to return. He can resort to whistle to get them back faster, but if you're pressuring him, he can't whistle for free. Pikmin in PM also tend to desynch from Olimar while in the line-up and strange stuff will happen like them falling off stage for no reason, but this is somewhat rare and isn't something opponents can reliably count on happening.
Once parry gets fixed, I think yoshi will be upper-mid. He is still yoshi and despite how much 20 eggs eggs stuff you can pull off, he relies on a lot of gimmicks in neutral. I think he is great but still cant really approach once people start recognizing/respecting what tools he has.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
Marth > Ike/Roy, Ike is super slightly better than Roy but not by much.
mimgrim
Smash Hero
Ike is tall and slow and is a prim target to eat projectiles, he also has a good mobility option thanks to QD, still doesn't help against projectiles all that much, and he has the best range of the 3 and I think is the strongest of the 3.
Marth still has good range, tipper system is still scary, and is, to me, a bit awkward to combo due to his weight and fall speed combination he has. However, from what I know, he kind suffers in the mobility department? It is also extremely helpful when there is a plethora of metagame already developed for him.
Roy has perhaps the best mobility between the 3, his fall speed is both a blessing and a curse, has the best combo game of the 3 and can still get a kill off easily. Yet he is fragile as hell due to his fall speed, but at the same time his fall speed is a great boon to his overall mobility (at least I think it is).
But still, I think Roy has the potential to be the best of the 3. But he is going to need a lot more development when his only good player is Sethlon, and currently I would say he is the worse of the 3. Currently Marth is the best if only because of his metagame experience that he already has and he is still a solid character. I'd say Ike has the potential to be the worse of the 3, but still good, but is currently the second best of the 3.
Though I am probably wrong on some of the things I said.
Marth still has good range, tipper system is still scary, and is, to me, a bit awkward to combo due to his weight and fall speed combination he has. However, from what I know, he kind suffers in the mobility department? It is also extremely helpful when there is a plethora of metagame already developed for him.
Roy has perhaps the best mobility between the 3, his fall speed is both a blessing and a curse, has the best combo game of the 3 and can still get a kill off easily. Yet he is fragile as hell due to his fall speed, but at the same time his fall speed is a great boon to his overall mobility (at least I think it is).
But still, I think Roy has the potential to be the best of the 3. But he is going to need a lot more development when his only good player is Sethlon, and currently I would say he is the worse of the 3. Currently Marth is the best if only because of his metagame experience that he already has and he is still a solid character. I'd say Ike has the potential to be the worse of the 3, but still good, but is currently the second best of the 3.
Though I am probably wrong on some of the things I said.
on the real, yes, so sad.
a m2 who knows this will never lose to yoshi.
that mu is pain.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I think roy is better than marth, I have little to no ike experience. But I'm bad so don't trust me
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Ehh I think Roy is better than Marth because his punish game can more reliably KO anyone outright rather than needing to gimp the improved recoveries. Plus his poking games is better for his ftilt, more dangerous and quicker dtilt, and more threatening blade dance. Marth has issues trying to kill heavy characters with good recoveries who survive tippers past combo percents, so he ends up killing those characters off of hard fsmash reads, or utilt/uthrow at Like 200%, all of which have to be individual hits to get them there since he can't combo them past like 90-100%. Roy has quicker SHFFLs with soft hits that reach farther, enabling him to use his max reach to combo, something Marth can't do, and a faster jump speed to catch up with aerial opponents, so he doesn't have an issue finishing at any percent. Plus he kills earlier anyways so getting them there isn't always even necessary.
Marth's primary strength over Roy is beating CCs at further distance than Roy can, but both characters are dominant on the ground with their DD grab game anyways. Plus CCing Marth's sourspot is actually effective Against Marth. Trying that against Roy keeps your still outpaced, or you run into the sweetspot further in and lose your stock
Marth's primary strength over Roy is beating CCs at further distance than Roy can, but both characters are dominant on the ground with their DD grab game anyways. Plus CCing Marth's sourspot is actually effective Against Marth. Trying that against Roy keeps your still outpaced, or you run into the sweetspot further in and lose your stock
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Marth is def the best of the trio. Roy still has possible qualms over CC monsters (DK being the most obvious example along with possibly Samus) and over being a god awful weight+ff+size combination. He's gotta have one of the top 3 absolute worst total combinations of traits you don't wanna have while getting hit.
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DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Roy's dtilt/ftilt/dash attack still beat ASDI-down CC at all percents though regardless of spacing
And then he can beat CC in the same way Marth does most of the time anyways, which is DD grab, or with his much better tomahawk grab.
And then he can beat CC in the same way Marth does most of the time anyways, which is DD grab, or with his much better tomahawk grab.
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GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Buff Ike.
(Not really)
Faster jumpstart please?
(Not really)
Faster jumpstart please?
mimgrim
Smash Hero
JOE!
Smash Hero
Lets make all of Ike's attacks do massive shield stun and be positive on block, that'll fix him right?