Tier List Speculation

[steelguttey]

make tinks up-b a rest

 

[Manatikik]

In my opinion when making any sort of tier list it is easiest and most effective to start a list off by dividing the game into 3 sections: high, medium, and low; these being based on each characters kit, potential MU's, tournaments (i hold more weight for weeklies than big events for many reasons), and lastly accessibility (how easy is it to be proficient and what is the general margin for error on most moves). Straight up divide it in thirds. start with the high tier, then low tier, and whatever remains is the middle. Then i'd go through the top 14 people and separate outliers (high and low) and organize high into 3 sections. Then continue with mid and low. With this method couldn't the community come to a somewhat agreeable llist of general tiers if not so much exact rankings?

 

[Bazkip]

If you guys have any persons opinions that you feel should be more highly valued I will definetly take that into account

My tier list

Top Tier:
Ganon

Bottom Tier:
Everyone else

My opinion is 100% accurate and more valid than everyone else

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

With the amount of people that STILL think Charizard, ZSS, Toon Link and Peach are low tier, LMFAO no

 

[Bryonato]

I'd assume Marth has a good matchup with Sonic. Maybe Link, Mario and Roy as well. Anyone else?

Ness beats sonic IMO

 

[JOE!]

(i hold more weight for weeklies than big events for many reasons)

I'm curious on this stance, as for some reason everybody seems to look down on weeklies and only hold BIG events as real shows of skill?

 

[Deleted member]

Well, weeklies often have smaller fields. It's rare to get a place like Xanadu that pulls 50+ on a bad day. Having a smaller field means that there is a larger standard deviation for performance, meaning there can be more variability in the results. For example, say I main Ice Climbers, and I go to a weekly where 15 people show up, with me as the 16th. Now, say that because of the small sample size we get a small proportion of people with MU knowledge against the ICs. I could potentially place higher than I could if I got a larger proportion of people with MU knowledge. This principle applies to virtually every factor of competition, and the only way to mitigate it is to increase the sample size, which is what happens at a major tournament. Major's have the largest sample size, and thus have the smallest standard deviations with regard to character performance.

Now remember, it's not all cut and dry. A large sample compensates for some of the sampling error inherent to creating a tier list, but there is still plenty of variability. For example, each character has a certain number of players at any given time. The characters with more players are more likely to succeed through both chance and skill, and vice-versa.

These facts make basing a tier list on tournament results incredibly difficult, as the statistical significance of the vast majority of wins is incredibly small. With only six months of tournament results worldwide, there's simply not enough reliable data to make a tier list.

 

[steelguttey]

With the amount of people that STILL think Charizard, BASED OLIMAR, ZSS, Toon Link and Peach are low tier, LMFAO no

ftfy

you know some times i think i should stop with the olimar thing but then i dont

 

[MLGF]

Easy way to buff Ike, give him more friends.
He's powered by them.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

My tier list

Top Tier:
Ganon

Bottom Tier:
Everyone else

My opinion is 100% accurate and more valid than everyone else

It has been included, thanks

 

[Juker]

Hey jtm94, weren't you making a MU chart? Curious to see what it looks like.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Gin and sprite is so top tier

DRUNKBIT WHERE YOU AT

 

[Hong]

Gin and sprite is so top tier

DRUNKBIT WHERE YOU AT

To this thread, I apologize for this.

It would appear my companion is drunk-posting.

 

[Strong Badam]

Gin and sprite is so top tier

DRUNKBIT WHERE YOU AT

cuba libre for top tier

EDIT: I just realized this is the Tier list thread not the social thread I'm so sorry Hylian.


Wario's Bite is really good and a big part of why he's good!

 

[Deleted member]

With the amount of people that STILL think Charizard, ZSS, Toon Link and Peach are low tier, LMFAO no

i still think charizard and TL are low tier.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

Try vodka with a sip of pickle juice right after, its great.

 

[C_Mill24]

Falcon for probably middle of mid tier.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Can confirm, now that ROB has moved to middle of high-mid tier, falcon is middle of mid tier.

 

[Jolteon]

It's just you.

A few months ago it was nearly everyone.

 

[Deleted member]

And then the lunchables/aero/jolteon came

 

[1FD]

I'm still down with the whole Sonic and Yoshi being top tier thing
Anyone else still down with that?
That's like january talk though
Haven't heard those talks since youknowwho ditched to the farawaylands

Still thinkin Zard is in the Falcon ROB tier
Link is top half Tink is bot half but they're both close to the middle
Silly hats that's why
Still remember the first time I played bamesy in 2.1 and his Tink 0 death chain grabbed me with ftilts and jabs and reverse bairs into flame spikes basically every stock
****ing 2.1 grabs were stupid who the **** decided to give that **** to Snake and Pit and Kirby etc too



Also thing about sonic is those hitboxes you gotta throw out gotta have no committment on them
hence yoshi and peach and stuff do well
As far as I've seen and heard and experienced and deciphered marth and those disjoint guys get **** on unless they can keep up with him MK style
Maybe ness and lucas and m2 can do ok I guess DJCers and lasting non-committing hitbox balls lol

 

[Anonistry]

Also thing about sonic is those hitboxes you gotta throw out gotta have no committment on them
hence yoshi and peach and stuff do well
As far as I've seen and heard and experienced and deciphered marth and those disjoint guys get **** on unless they can keep up with him MK style
Maybe ness and lucas and m2 can do ok I guess DJCers and lasting non-committing hitbox balls lol

So basically, the best counter to YOLO spinballs is to be able to safely YOLO yourself.

YOLO too stronk. Plz nerf.

 

[shairn]

There's something that's been on my mind lately, why is Marth generally considered mid tier?
He can deal handily with most of what the rest of the cast can throw at him, and can combo practically every character just as hard as ever. Obviously he has a harder time gimping a lot of the cast than in Melee, but he still has a better than average ledge game in my opinion.

 

[Anonistry]

If I were to throw a guess, he just doesn't have anything that "warps" the match or metagame like top tiers often do. He has some good tools, but he doesn't quite seem to do anything that demands respect the way top tier tools do.

Then again, I have never faced a top level Marth, so there's that. Also, that made me realize, how close would you say the tier gaps are at the moment? Like, is anyone SFII Turbo Akuma tier? Or is it just better and worse but all viable?

 

[DMG]

Marth grab range is no longer special
Marth sword range is no longer special
Marth kill power (on tips) is no longer special
Marth edgeguarding is no longer special

Marth recovery is lolzbad compared to 90% of characters
Marth kill power (non tips) is real bad compared to 90% of characters


K, that's no bueno

 

[mimgrim]

Well, doesn't Marth lose a lot of his combos when characters get to higher precents where he has to rely on spacing perfectly for the tipper to keep racking up damage and be able to read the opponent to get the kill. And like with other Melee tops he has a lot more competition now. Not to mention that there are character that can out range him with their attacks. He is still solid, but he doesn't really have anything special now like he did in Melee.

 

[didds]

HE DOESNT EVEN GOT SHINE OR NANNERS!

 

[Deleted member]

In this game you need either a shine, a gross projectile, or incredible disjoint to compete. If you don't have those, you'll just be trolling around in ROB tier.

 

[DMG]

It doesn't even have to be disjoint specifically: Zard gets around fine with holy batman Nair because it's the size of 30 Smashballs

 

[shairn]

It's true that he's hilariously easy to gimp, I had forgotten that(How could I?). I don't agree that his killing power is nothing special though, on smaller stages, should the opponent miss his DI for fthrow Marth can kill off the side as early as 20-30%.

How's his grab range not special? He still does have the longest non-tether grab IIRC (Or Roy is the same), and can actually easily rival tethers in grab range minus the lag.

Well, doesn't Marth lose a lot of his combos when characters get to higher precents where he has to rely on spacing perfectly for the tipper to keep racking up damage and be able to read the opponent to get the kill. And like with other Melee tops he has a lot more competition now. Not to mention that there are character that can out range him with their attacks. He is still solid, but he doesn't really have anything special now like he did in Melee.

Yeah, but he still has relatively solid options even past 130% like Side B to utilt, upB OOS and nair around 160-180%.

 

[Soft Serve]

I
****ing 2.1 grabs were stupid who the **** decided to give that **** to Snake and Pit and Kirby etc too

I miss 2.1 Link grabs. Not necessarily the 0-90% > Dair chaingrab on most of the cast (although that was hilarious)

I just really miss how you could still grab if you had an item in hand, if you did a melee pivot grab. Oh my god was that **** amazing. @ Hylian when did that get fixed? And why was it removed, other than it making no sense?

 

[Hylian]

I think that was removed from 2.1 -> 2.5. I got into the PMBR about a week after 2.5 launched so *shrugs*

 

[Empyrean]

How's his grab range not special? He still does have the longest non-tether grab IIRC (Or Roy is the same), and can actually easily rival tethers in grab range minus the lag.

DDD, Bowser and DK all have longer grab ranges. That is not to say that Marth's range isn't ridiculous.

 

[shairn]

...Bowser outgrabs Marth?
Somehow that doesn't seem right.

 

[Empyrean]

The guy is huge though, makes more sense than Marth's huge disjoint of a grab.

I'm basing my statement on the statistics thread that's pinned on these boards. Ya'll should check that place, there's some neat info.

 

[shairn]

Yeah, looking back at his model I misjudged the length of his arms.
Obviously, Marth grabs people with his good looks. They just fly into his arms, where he can stare into their eyes longingly.

 

[DMG]

Bowser, Zard, and D3 should be way up there on grab range. Marth isn't #1 uncontested anymore: same with many aspects of him that were dominant in Melee. Other people got crazy things

 

[Vashimus]

Is this still the case though?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Is this still the case though?

I feel so bad for all the low tiers in Melee... They're just so bad...

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

My character has a psychotic disjoint and still trolls around in mid tier with ROB and Zard >.>

Granted I'm sure it's upper half of the cast, not lower half, but still.