Oro?!
Smash Hero
Falco lasers also don't do 14% and combo into kill moves from more than Marth tipper range away,
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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
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Nguz95
Smash Lord
I sense some Link salt in the area... maybe M2K was right.
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,506
Lol lasers don't combo into kill moves?
Approaching with a boomerang leaves Link incredibly open to punishment and is generally a bad idea against anybody who knows the matchup. Also, powershield exists.
Complaining about boomerang... Lol get better.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Lol telling Oro to get better...
Bryonato
Green Hat
"From more than marth tipper range away"
Who said Link *had* to approach with it? With Link's moveset plenty of things allow him to combo into boomerang or ease it in with bomb/arrow spam.
While I don't think 'rang is OP it certainly is a strong and in some cases annoying move. Good job on being an ass, though.
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Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,506
Falco covers more ground than Link, meaning a laser from outside of Marth's range can combo with kill moves or death combos just as easily. Hence how Falco can approach a Marth.
To my knowledge, nothing true combos into boomerang at kill%. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
Yes, Link tends to throw a lot of stuff, and can throw a lot of boomerangs, but it's a fairly slow, predictable, clankable, PSable, and punishable projectile that just doesn't warrant the kind of hate it's getting.
Completely agree with you. I see several people complaining that boomerang is OP and my honest response to that is they need to get better at the matchup and stop complaining, regardless of their skill level. there are much more broken things in this game and every other smash to complain about before boomerang.
Not trying to just be an ***, but rather trying to make a point.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
You know what guys, this is the reason why some people get turned off from Project M. Every time a character has something really good going for them, people will ***** about it. A community of whiny know-it-alls isn't appealing. Stop it.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
League mentality.
B.W.
Smash Champion
Link's Boomerang sets up into whatever the **** Link wants it to and it's stupid because it can be used to make certain things Link does that should be punishable, hard to punish/unpunishable thanks to its shorter range and faster speed.
It really is a dumb projectile. Is there ever really a time when jump backwards and throw a boomerang isn't an option? It's as dumb as 2.0 Link rang imo.
It really is a dumb projectile. Is there ever really a time when jump backwards and throw a boomerang isn't an option? It's as dumb as 2.0 Link rang imo.
batistabus
Smash Journeyman
Inversely, all that **** is why a lot of people are turned off in the first place.
Pseudomaniac
Smash Journeyman
Essentially. Yes, the boomerang is good. No, it doesn't need to be nerfed. If boomerang is OP, than everything better than boomerang needs to be nerfed too. So Fox's usmash, Falco's blaster, Jigglypuff's rest, Meta Knight's nair, every shine in the game, etc. need to be nerfed. As someone who plays Wolf, Meta Knight, and occasionally Falco, I wouldn't appreciate that too much. So leave Link alone. He needs something good and a boomerang nerf could cripple a developing character.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
Oh no, Link has a really good projectile, and almost nobody seems to think that he's higher than mid-tier despite this supposedly ridiculous attack, but because the projectile is frustrating for some people to play around, let's nerf it and claim that it was because of "poor design." We're gonna fix what's not broken if it's the last thing we do, dammit! And let's get as many people as we can together who don't main Link/who haven't put in a huge amount of time and effort to learn how to play around something they find difficult to deal with and have them whine and make smart-ass remarks until we get the nerfs we want!
1 - The idea that they'll put a huge amount of time into learning how to play a character, only for the character to end up being drastically changed at some point because enough people complained.
2 - The elitist attitudes of some members of this community.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything you post is hilarious. Sometimes you come off as a huge prick. If that was your intent all along, then you succeeded. Bravo.
Not really. Newer PM players may have uninformed opinions about certain characters being "overpowered," but they'd still be willing to learn, grow, and play the game if it weren't for two things:
1 - The idea that they'll put a huge amount of time into learning how to play a character, only for the character to end up being drastically changed at some point because enough people complained.
2 - The elitist attitudes of some members of this community.
What exactly are you implying? That because I like Zelda, my opinions are somehow less valid?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything you post is hilarious. Sometimes you come off as a huge prick. If that was your intent all along, then you succeeded. Bravo.
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Kaeldiar
Smash Ace
*cough cough* Seriously though. If Link is so OP, why isn't he S+ tier?
MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Go ahead and ask M2K where he thinks Link is...
SunJester
Smash Ace
Solution to annoying projectiles : Don't get hit
or powershield.
No johns.
or powershield.
No johns.
Cassio
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2011
- Messages
- 3,185
Guys, I know how to balance pichu. Turn thunder into a OHKO. Clearly this wont be a problem since everyone can work around it and wont be broken 
.
But seriously, I think people can sometimes overemphasize balance at the expense of character design. If I have to make a character viable by giving him something stupid like an easy infinite chaingrab or some other oddly strong move, then I think its time to evaluate the design of that character. Snake is an examples of characters thats viable but not perfectly balanced. He has the ability to do well, yet may not be as consistent as his top tier peers. You don't need 100% balance but you do need good design flow.
.But seriously, I think people can sometimes overemphasize balance at the expense of character design. If I have to make a character viable by giving him something stupid like an easy infinite chaingrab or some other oddly strong move, then I think its time to evaluate the design of that character. Snake is an examples of characters thats viable but not perfectly balanced. He has the ability to do well, yet may not be as consistent as his top tier peers. You don't need 100% balance but you do need good design flow.
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No I disagree with that lesson. I could clarify as much as possible, he's not gonna like what my post implied.
Zelda takes the fun outta the room. *Whoosh* There it goes!
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D
Deleted member
Guest
I'll take the bait. Yes. Because you like Zelda, your opinions are less valid.
What happens now?
Blondie.
Smash Journeyman
I'm just waiting until Diddy becomes the new topic of complaint. That character is ridiculous and no one realizes it yet!
Why don't you just use Diddy to sneak up on everyone with all that ridiculousness? There's no more direct way to prove your point. Same for Link whiners. Use Link to spread dismay across the land and pillage everyone's egos and then they'll start to listen. But you don't. Because YOU KNOW YOU'RE FULL OF IT. What NOW, huh?!
Fish&Herbs19
Smash Journeyman
*grabs popcorn*
Keep them coming!
Keep them coming!
Hungry Headcrab
Smash Ace
You people are ridiculous. Quit ******** and learn the matchup.
Blondie.
Smash Journeyman
I would use Diddy, but the screeching monkey screams start to get annoying after a while.
No shhhhh stop talking about diddy
Please
Please
Spiffykins
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2012
- Messages
- 547
Diddy is just bananas.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
That complaining... NO JOHNS!!! (how ridicolous is it to use character johns in PM, they may be valid in Brawl and Melee, but in PM?)
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
help
how do I beat MK with ROB
HOW
I'm having a hard time finding solutions to where he just double jumps above me at an angle (where ROB already sucks at covering), out of quick reach, and then randomly dives at me
I've resorted to just camping beneath platforms, and I'm considering just trying to take to the air with up-b's quickly canceled into fair for short bursts upward to try and land a hit with a wall, but then staying in their air too long gets me uair'ed, plus I haven't even tested that out yet but it sounds like it's not gonna work
if that were all MK could do from the air it would be fine, but having godlike aerials otherwise, a teleport, and 3 specials with disjointed hitboxes makes it feel impossible to challenge him until he lands
and then ROB happens to be slow as **** so punishing missed dairs with a JC grab doesn't seem like an option with MK's little endlag
plus MK's even fast on the ground, so getting a gyro out is hard without giving up stage space and/or giving my gyro away
Is this match-up really that garbage or do I just need to get better at it
how do I beat MK with ROB
HOW
I'm having a hard time finding solutions to where he just double jumps above me at an angle (where ROB already sucks at covering), out of quick reach, and then randomly dives at me
I've resorted to just camping beneath platforms, and I'm considering just trying to take to the air with up-b's quickly canceled into fair for short bursts upward to try and land a hit with a wall, but then staying in their air too long gets me uair'ed, plus I haven't even tested that out yet but it sounds like it's not gonna work
if that were all MK could do from the air it would be fine, but having godlike aerials otherwise, a teleport, and 3 specials with disjointed hitboxes makes it feel impossible to challenge him until he lands
and then ROB happens to be slow as **** so punishing missed dairs with a JC grab doesn't seem like an option with MK's little endlag
plus MK's even fast on the ground, so getting a gyro out is hard without giving up stage space and/or giving my gyro away
Is this match-up really that garbage or do I just need to get better at it
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JOE!
Smash Hero
Unplug the MK player's controller, usually does the trick
jtm94
Smash Lord
Zelda imo does need a revamp of sorts to make her "better." As for her being annoying I played a significant amount of friendlies, and as it turns out people have been practicing the Zelda MU, and playing them with Zelda is a pain in the ***. It's kind of like how Diddy becomes significantly worse once a counter-banana game exists. Again, my Link friend has become amazing with AGT glide tosses and bomb shenanigans and can actually use my bananas against me more effective than I can use them against him.
As for Link, there was an unknown SURGE of Link players at the tourney I went to. Like... Absolutely no joke, every other player either mains or secondaries Link. Playing a lot of them in friendlies I am slowly starting to realize boomerang really isn't that good and just needs to be played around. People complain about character specific traits that make them learn the MU, "we should just make every character play the same so counterplay doesn't exist." is an ideal that seems to permeate about this thread, a really bad one. The different MUs are what gives this game such flavor, you can't go pure space animal and win anymore because there are crazy counters to them... but guess what? There are crazy counters to the characters that counter them too... It's as if this game has quite the selection of viable characters....
Also Ganon is a pain to play against unless you can gimp him, and people underestimate the disjoint + KO power of his moves.. The ability to use a lasting bair or dair to gimp his recovery makes him significantly less menacing.
Going to tourneys and talking to people actually helped me understand a lot of things. I asked people about Zelda as I played solely her in the tourney, and the response I almost always got was, "She's kind of weird to play against, I just found a decent Zelda in my area and practiced the MU."
As for Link, there was an unknown SURGE of Link players at the tourney I went to. Like... Absolutely no joke, every other player either mains or secondaries Link. Playing a lot of them in friendlies I am slowly starting to realize boomerang really isn't that good and just needs to be played around. People complain about character specific traits that make them learn the MU, "we should just make every character play the same so counterplay doesn't exist." is an ideal that seems to permeate about this thread, a really bad one. The different MUs are what gives this game such flavor, you can't go pure space animal and win anymore because there are crazy counters to them... but guess what? There are crazy counters to the characters that counter them too... It's as if this game has quite the selection of viable characters....
Also Ganon is a pain to play against unless you can gimp him, and people underestimate the disjoint + KO power of his moves.. The ability to use a lasting bair or dair to gimp his recovery makes him significantly less menacing.
Going to tourneys and talking to people actually helped me understand a lot of things. I asked people about Zelda as I played solely her in the tourney, and the response I almost always got was, "She's kind of weird to play against, I just found a decent Zelda in my area and practiced the MU."
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
I have limited knowledge about that matchup but you have to make most out of your ccing if mk is above you. Hold gyro and mixup between thowing it and aerial also can make up for your range disadvantage