Tier List Speculation

[Kink-Link5]

Lucas's U-throw will do alright.

But then when Lucas kills Charizard with that move at 123% while Charizard's own barely manages to kill Lucas at 150, there's more than a bit of jank at work.

 

[Brim]

Lucas's U-throw will do alright.

But then when Lucas kills Charizard with that move at 123% while Charizard's own barely manages to kill Lucas at 150, there's more than a bit of jank at work.

Speaking of Lucas - how is he this time around? I've never been the biggest fan of Earthbound characters all because I got used to the timing for Ness's recovery in Melee and just never adjusted. Personally, I still think Lucas is a neat clone character though.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I don't know anything about lucas other than he makes Charizard's life a living ****ing hell.

 

[Brim]

I don't know anything about lucas other than he makes Charizard's life a living ****ing hell.

Alright, well thanks for the info - my bad.

 

[FlamingForce]

Low falling speed + heavy weight + excellent recovery options = stop trying to kill her off the sides.

Floaty as all hell = near impossible to set up any other way to kill her.

 

[KayB]

I still can't get over the fact that Kink is posting here again.

 

[Scythe]

just put him on ignore lol. I saw like two posts of his and that was enough.

 

[Vashimus]

just put him on ignore lol. I saw like two posts of his and that was enough.

....I think KayB meant that in disbelief, not dislike. Nobody hates Kinky unless they can't take jokes. :[

 

[Blank Mauser]

I think Roy is good. He does a lot of things that Marth does, trading range and potency for the ability to kill and get things started faster and earlier. (Against anything not spacies because Marth gets started on those before the match even starts)

Really what makes the character is his neutral-B in my opinion. Not only does it usually either kill at low percents but it puts the opponent into a bad situation. Afterwards Roy can go off-stage and proceed to neutral-B, twice off-stage if he wants to, and still recover. At early percentages this devestates characters without ways to deal with it.

It helps that hes a lot easier to use then Marth. Doesn't have to pay much as much attention to spacing, has a lot of hitstun with all of his aerials (Dair, Fair) and tilts(Utilt, Ftilt) for comboing into nair/bair/neutral-B even without the sweetspots, and can capitalize real hard off CC dtilt.

 

[Plum]

Fly tearing things up at KoC3 with icies makes me legitimately scared to see their potential in PM
Sopo for top tier

 

[HyperrCrow]

Can we talk about Roy's new god-like Ftilt? You can legit tilt it downward and poke edges from ages away.
I've nicknamed it the Noodlestick, and man that noodlestick is powerful as heck. Edgeguarding so safe.
Or you can just edgeguard with Neutral-B like the uncool kids....

 

[esoterics]

I've nicknamed it the Noodlestick, and man that noodlestick is powerful as heck.

I suppose I've heard weirder terms for moves.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I believe Roy also has better aerial momentum then Marth. SH Nair is as good as it looks.

 

[\Apples]

Fly tearing things up at KoC3 with icies makes me legitimately scared to see their potential in PM
Sopo for top tier

I already thought they were bonkers in Melee. I just hope the changes made to IC's were truly made with the best intentions for the character's design.

Truth be told, I'd love more than anything to read a very very detailed design talk on 3.0's IC's design, much like the talks that were released for 2.6 Pit, Zard, and Sonic.

 

[Vixen]

We've been calling Roy's sword the wet noodle since melee.

 

[metroid1117]

Fly tearing things up at KoC3 with icies makes me legitimately scared to see their potential in PM
Sopo for top tier

Side note - Fly's comeback against Silent Wolf was GODLIKE.

Real talk though, it's a lot harder to profit from PM IC grabs than it is in Melee because throw release points aren't dynamic based on character weight yet. I was playing Hylian this weekend and not losing a stock whenever I got grabbed >.>.

 

[\Apples]

I was cheerin' hard for my boy reppin' the Tuk! Salty to see him lose to climbers but it was truly epic. Those closing 10 seconds were RIDICULOUSLY INTENSE.

 

[KayB]

....I think KayB meant that in disbelief, not dislike. Nobody hates Kinky unless they can't take jokes.

Oracle ignored him I think lmao


On another note, KoC3 was hype. Axe was putting in some mad work, Shroomed beating S2J and PewPewU, and Fly Amanita playing some of the best sets I've ever seen.
It was cool to see Top 8 being repped by different characters. M2K = Wild Card, Silent Wolf = Fox, Shroomed = Doc, Axe = Young Link & Pikachu, Bladewise = Peach, Westballz = Falco, Fly = Ice Climbers, and PewPewU = Marth.

 

[Deleted member]

and better yet, no captain falcon

 

[Burnsy]

Speaking of Lucas - how is he this time around? I've never been the biggest fan of Earthbound characters all because I got used to the timing for Ness's recovery in Melee and just never adjusted. Personally, I still think Lucas is a neat clone character though.

Lucas is really good in P:M

Also up-b isn't his main recovery move, unlike Ness.

 

[Juushichi]

lucas has never been a clone lmao

he's really good in PM though.

 

[Vashimus]

Lucas has been Luigified.

 

[Nguz95]

We're finally talking about my boy Lucas. I would say Lucas has been spaciefied, not luigified. Lucas can apply shield pressure in much the same way that fox and Falco do. However, he can also use djc, a mechanic that neither fox nor falco have the benefit of using. His combo tree is probably the most diverse in the entire cast, as most of his moves combo into each other regardless of %. He can finish any time even without a pk offense up. In all honesty I think his only weakness is his weight. He's a really frail character. Even though his recovery covers a rather long distance, getting back is difficult because you get hit so far away.

In my opinion, Lucas is the best Brawl character in PM. He's so well designed that his potential is nearly limitless.

 

[Oracle]

HERP DURR LUCAS WIZ NURFED BOTTOM TIER BUFF PLZZZZZZZZ

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Oracle ignored him I think lmao


On another note, KoC3 was hype. Axe was putting in some mad work, Shroomed beating S2J and PewPewU, and Fly Amanita playing some of the best sets I've ever seen.
It was cool to see Top 8 being repped by different characters. M2K = Wild Card, Silent Wolf = Fox, Shroomed = Doc, Axe = Young Link & Pikachu, Bladewise = Peach, Westballz = Falco, Fly = Ice Climbers, and PewPewU = Marth.

where can I find the replays doe

 

[Eisen]

I'm not sure how I feel exactly about the "nerf". I mean, it's not like Lucas' magnet needed to do as much shield damage as it used to; you can whittle down shield much faster/better in other ways, and as mentioned, he's already good. It does feel weird sometimes though not getting as much shield damage in as I expect to. Also, inadvertent buffs were applied to him when shields (and I think wavedashing?) improved in 3.0 anyway.

While we're on the topic, I... really dislike when people call Lucas a clone character, or even try to compare him with Ness. The two psychic boys play so drastically different it's not even funny.

 

[Sizzlorr217]

Lucas' playstyle feels like the unwanted childhybrid of Fox and Luigi.. and I love it!

 

[ELI-mination]

Side note - Fly's comeback against Silent Wolf was GODLIKE.

Real talk though, it's a lot harder to profit from PM IC grabs than it is in Melee because throw release points aren't dynamic based on character weight yet. I was playing Hylian this weekend and not losing a stock whenever I got grabbed >.>.

Why should you lose a stock when getting grabbed anyway? That doesn't sound like it should be a thing

 

[Oro?!]

Tell that to half of Melee top tier Eli-sama lol.

 

[ELI-mination]

Tell that to half of Melee top tier Eli-sama lol.

YO Melee top tier, stop that **** ******

 

[Nausicaa]

He's stupid, the less Lucas we see the better.

Naturally, a character like Roy, who can combo any hit into F-Smash twice to end a stock, is going to have some sexy cheesy match-ups going for him. To work that out, he'll naturally have limits in other areas, which implies there will be cheesy match-ups not going for him.

He's perfectly fine, don't worry about it.

Kirby has sexy feet.

 

[Sbang]

@ELI: Meh IC's grabrange is ridiculously low, and most chaingrabs (aside from wobbling, which is removed as far as I'm concerned) take a lot of knowledge to perform. If you get grabbed by a good player, you'll die. Watch Fly's sets. People get grabbed pretty rarely versus him.

Lucas is hella good by the way. Great weight (gets combod like a spacie, though), fantastic wavedash (seriously it's like Luigi), and great combos thanks to DJC. Definitely an amazing character.

Feel like Roy's really good too. Very powerful attacks, good spacing, and a fantastic shffl game. Movement in general feels really smooth with him, it's almost like playing Doc in Melee (He always felt the smoothest for me).

Can't figure out how to play Mew2. I'll wait for people better than my friends and me to pass judgment, but my first instinct is to say he's mediocre at best.

Olimar's sorta cool, I love Red+White pikmin, they seem like the most effective. Been disappointed with Purp's "power". Feels weak. Aerials are really ****in good with reds. Movement feels great with Olimar as well.

Samus also has good kill moves, which frustrates me since I hate Samus in Melee. So hard to kill... oh well, she definitely looks OK. Probably mid tier?

Jury's still out on most of these guys as tech skill continues to be advanced, so we'll see.

 

[ELI-mination]

Psh I don't watch OTHER people

I watch myself
























and fap

 

[Scidadle]

The concept of mid tier in PM to me is so weird because it's not like a mid tier in Melee or Brawl where they are at severe disadvantages. In PM most characters are pretty close to each other in terms of viability so a mid tier character is only ever so slightly worse than a high tier character (IMO)

Guess that means the devs are doing a good job regarding balance

 

[Banjodorf]

To catch up to the thread:

-Don't get rid of blue Pikmin. Color-changing light is a good idea though.
-Lucas is amazing. Like, so much fun. Plz dun' nerf.
-Roy's our boy. He's viable, and that's what matters. (Granted, I haven't played him enough to give you the nitty-gritty yet, but I know that much.)

 

[Jade_Rock55]

One day I hope this will be the tier list

Top
Everyone

Which is almost impossible.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yeah. It is unfortunately impossible to have a perfectly balanced cast when everyone is so diverse. Compare Mewtwo and Lucario alone, and their strengths and utilities are so massively different it's mindblowing. Now add 39 other characters.

Still though, as long as every character can be considered viable, the PMBR did their job well.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Top
High
Mid

Then maybe stuff between I just hope we have 0 low tiers or do we now?

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how we have it now, really. Mostly that gets broken down into S/A/B tiers (Top/High/Mid) for conventional fighting games, and that's what we've started to see here. Sometimes people break the characters down into B+/B-/A+ etc., to pinpoint minor differences, but there's pretty much viability all around and in all honesty three tiers seems accurate.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

Yeah. It is unfortunately impossible to have a perfectly balanced cast when everyone is so diverse. Compare Mewtwo and Lucario alone, and their strengths and utilities are so massively different it's mindblowing. Now add 39 other characters.

Still though, as long as every character can be considered viable, the PMBR did their job well.

until the day comes where its common for someone to win a tournament against high level players using ganon/lucario/ness/luigi/squirtle/zard i'm unconvinced that true balance was achieved...YET