Tier List Speculation

[Scythe]

i have trouble against ivysaur that just hold the stick towards me and press a a lot.

 

[Nguz95]

i have trouble against ivysaur that just hold the stick towards me and press a a lot.

I'd say that's the general consensus

 

[Hylian]

it's almost like they're different characters and comparing them in a vacuum is ******** because character viability is determined by matchups

Clearly I should put sarcasm tags/I always take jabs at dk for no reason.


In regards to peoples lists: I feel most people underrate Link >_>. I don't think he's bottom 5-8.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Real Tier List

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Jigglypuff
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Mario
Pikachu
Samus
Ganondorf
Luigi

Toon Link
Link
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Zelda
Roy
Mr. Game and Watch

Ness
Bowser

Metaknight

Olimar
Diddy Kong
Snake

ZSS
Wario
Lucario
King DeDeDe

Wolf
Pit
R.O.B.

Squirtle
Sonic
Ike
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucas

 

[Scythe]

link is as mid tier as you can get lol

 

[Hylian]

link is as mid tier as you can get lol

This is how I feel as well.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Real Tier List

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Jigglypuff
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Mario
Pikachu
Samus
Ganondorf
Luigi

Toon Link
Link
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Zelda
Roy
Mr. Game and Watch

Ness
Bowser

Metaknight

Olimar
Diddy Kong
Snake

ZSS
Wario
Lucario
King DeDeDe

Wolf
Pit
R.O.B.

Squirtle
Sonic
Ike
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucas

Wait a minute... did you just take the official Melee tier list, and stack it on top of the Brawl tier list?

 

[Kink-Link5]

I was only doing what I saw everyone else doing.

The funny part is where it looks only marginally more silly than any other list.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Except that you have Ice Climbers, Samus, Roy, Yoshi, and Olimar on your list (and yet you left out Mewtwo, Kirby, and Pichu)

Also, nobody else has been saying that the new brawl characters are invalid.

 

[Nausicaa]

So to this day, Dedede is the only character I don't think is good enough for the game.
Anyone else feel this way about Dedede, or other characters?
He's awesome, and super fun, but linear and limited beyond reason...

 

[Kink-Link5]

Except that you have Ice Climbers, Samus, Roy, Yoshi, and Olimar on your list (and yet you left out Mewtwo, Kirby, and Pichu)

Also, nobody else has been saying that the new brawl characters are invalid.

More invalid than as mediocre a character as Marth evidently.

And the point was to include the missing characters, else someone would be dumb enough to think it was serious.

 

[DMG]

D3 is cool guy, doesn't afraid to hammer

 

[Kink-Link5]

DeDeDe is the laxest guy in town. He doesn't even need to worry about being good because he has a down B to do that for him.

 

[Scythe]

yo play my ddd at big houseeee

 

[KayB]

Real Tier List

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Jigglypuff
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Mario
Pikachu
Samus
Ganondorf
Luigi

Toon Link
Link
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Zelda
Roy
Mr. Game and Watch

Ness
Bowser

Metaknight

Olimar
Diddy Kong
Snake

ZSS
Wario
Lucario
King DeDeDe

Wolf
Pit
R.O.B.

Squirtle
Sonic
Ike
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucas

- No Mewtwo
- Tier list is invalid

 

[Nausicaa]

yo play my ddd at big houseeee

I'll watch it, when is it/are there some key Dedede vids I could watch?

My game with him is fairly dependent on my opponents play-style than anything, but it consists of either going for high risk high reward approaches (just straight up Dash > Shield/Grab/CC > act accordingly), or playing a passive-aggressive game by keeping my distance and basically just poking feinted attacks from a great distance (Feeling out my opponent + F-Tilt/Waddles), and almost always challenging my opponent in the air. If I can make any guess at when they'll be air-born, I take it. Whether it's the aggro-style F-airs/D-airs in full-on-attack situations, or fading F-air/B-airs in the feeling-out situations.
Aside from that, I've been fond of Up-Smash out of the blue (like, hail-mary style if I feel like it, but not really ever, and don't really bother with it outside of these... but when it works, it's great, so it's my go-to **** around guess-work move), and of course U-air, N-air, and Down-B, when appropriate/the opportunity arises/I think it's worth the commitment.

There's like 2 positions... GTFO 'oh crap I can't get away without risk'
and... Imma gech u! 'oh crap I can't get close without risk'

Reward ain't that high, even when 90% of the time you can pretty much take the stock off a Grab > U-air/other aerial > edge-guard combo... It's still tedious and feels futile.


Is there a Dedede style that thrives best? Do you really just have to go 100% aggro with him and do the high-risk-high-reward crap, and is that going to help him stay in it because his reward game IS worth the risk game (given he'll probably get hit playing risky or not, maybe that's the trick to his developing meta-game)?

Screw Dedede, he's too boss.

 

[NightShadow6]

Seems like DDD's options for punishing are grab or grab.

 

[NightShadow6]

----------

 

[Plum]

You forgot pivot grab.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

and Dash Grab

 

[Archangel]

Marth not top 8.

huh...I think Marth is just shy of the top 8 for pretty much the same reasons stated. Which doesn't put him outside of viability but it puts him outside of great. Marth can at best even in the hands of a M2K or PPU be very good.

I wouldn't go as far as to say he's mid tier though. his Bogus 2006 combos work on half new characters. Wolf falls right in line with the typical spacies MU. FD-ChainGrab-gg. Actually you've got better Stages and Wolf neutral game isn't Falco/Fox level imo. Characters like Charizard and DDD are Ken Combo's waiting to happen. Snake gets dunked as well. However, There are also new characters that make a fool out of Marth and his lack of significant improvements. With that said I also agree he shouldn't be changed much at all. Just fix his sword so that it connects the same in this game and I won't have an issue with Marth. If he needs to keep up with the Recovery buffs then at best you can give him a continued stall on his Side-B like Mario's got...other than that...Marf is Marf.

 

[Archangel]

I was only doing what I saw everyone else doing.

The funny part is where it looks only marginally more silly than any other list.

My top 10 is Fox/Falco/Wario/Pit/Mario/Snake/Lucas/Wolf/Marth/Sheik

pretty even split wouldn't you say?

As for Metaknight....the worst part about metaknight are his roy hitboxes. I get annoyed by that with every character though not just him. It makes since on a character like IVY though but why does MK's tipper Usmash tickle so much? Anyway aside from that he's pretty good. I think when given time to figure out he's is pretty beatable but he's got some great MU's against some of the best characters in the game putting him somewhere near the top half but not top 8-10 imo.

sorry double post.

 

[Nausicaa]

Dedede has an air grab too. With his MOUTH!!!

 

[Kink-Link5]

Real talk though having an air grab is a huge boon. He already has a good empty hop grab, but being able to fall into an opponent from up high with a grab hitbox constantly out means a lot less guessing than normal characters have to do.

 

[Sarix]

link is as mid tier as you can get lol

It's to be expected. While Link is very versatile, outside of edgeguarding he doesn't have any overwhelming strengths against the cast to warrant moving him up on the list or massive weaknesses that should merit bringing him down.

 

[Vigilante]

I read the tier list on the first page for fun. Wario being low made me laugh to tears.

 

[Archangel]

Wario wasn't great in 2.0/2.1 Also, Some of the Cast was better in 2.0/2.1 or at least better vs Wario. Now Wario is too good tier.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Make no mistake: Wario was pretty GARBAGE in 2.0/2.1.

 

[DMG]

It's not like 80% of his entire kit was buffed. "No DMG that never happened! Wario was great in 2.1 OP even!" gg hipster guy says to me...

 

[trash?]

a majority of wario's mixups in 2.1 were gimmicky as hell, remember. a lot of setups involvin' fakeouts, and bite was pretty much a non-existent concept because it was so useless

 

[Nausicaa]

bite was pretty much a non-existent

Funnest necessary buff EVAH!

It would be nice if Dedede could actually air-grab at a rate that didn't take 2 years to come out.

 

[DMG]

Bite was a tool, but it had pretty bad throw angles. In general, 2.1 Wario had a problem if you DI'd away from him on literally any hit or throw. His Dthrow put people too low and too far away with DI, was like a bad Bowser/DK Dthrow

 

[Strong Badam]

2.1 wario was the antithesis of fun

new wario is the most fun ever (next to ike)

 

[DMG]

Edit: Nasty Lag Double Post, delete

 

[Archangel]

I don't remember if I ever grouped Wario in with the Bottom 5 but I'm sure he was in my bottom 10 at least. As it was already stated he was just incomplete. Now he's at the point where I don't think he needs changes.

Speaking of started from the bottom now we here characters.

Snake?

 

[Nausicaa]

Quote from a page ago about 2.1 Wario being in top-tier on a list you say?

A - Viable to win tournaments on their own. They can compete all the way to winning a tournament with few major disadvantageous hurdles along the way.
Wario


I'm a hipster you say?


New Tier List because I'm awesome...





MY TIER LIST 2.6b
Quickly thrown together (in the last 30 minutes on Notepad!) because I want to get one done before 3.0 since I missed doing any for 2.5 and this is fun and hilarious and interesting to speculate.

All characters tied within the tiers.
Bold = I have a hunch they're ever so slightly better than the others in their tier.
Italic = I have a hunch they're ever so slightly worse than the others in their tier.
() = Developing part of their game that plays a factor in my hunch.
[] = Change I would like to see the long-term results of for them in the future.

1 (barely out of 1.5, but enough that I don't suspect they'll be worse than most in that tier)
Peach - Lucas - Fox - Falco - Wario

1.5 (could be 1, could be 2, right now my best guess might as well be in a RNG)

- Char (Touch of Death efficiency, I like Up-B OOS) - Diddy (the DD, SH Aerial, and Tilt mix in Neutral) - Ivy (both sides/ends of the off-stage game) - Luigi (Neutral maneuvering precision to make his tools work) - Pit (depth and process, both in ToDing and Neutral) - MK (ToDing off offensive high-aggressive poke-based pressure)
- Everyone not mentioned is in the middle of all the characters mentioned in this tier...
- Ike (risk-vs-reward trading with highly aggressive play) - Jigg (aggressive precision play against passive-aggressive play) - Link (ToD efficiency from connected hits when dealing with aggression) - Sonic (precision and efficiency when playing passive-aggressively) - TL (coverage against aggressive play into ToDing) - ZSS (ToDing)

2
- Bowser (naturally polarizing, dealing with aggressively-passive play, overly reliant on out-matching it with his own aggressively-passive play)
[Down-B JC-able earlier in the jump > use as a counter of sorts that keeps him functionally mobile, which is crucial for him in these situations + using armor feature functionally]
- Squirt (Neutral maneuvering precision to make his tools work, ToDing off mid-% conversions without often necessary resets, or at least having efficient process afterwards when it's needed)
[allow the recovery/hop after-hit on Side-B to be slightly more controllable > can be more liberal with his best convert-to-finisher]
- Zelda (aggressively-passive play, overly reliant on spaced ground attacks + Grab mixes with low mobility/unreliable distance game overly focused on)
[Side-B Fireballs to travel further initially and slow in speed when traveling further away > more accuracy and speed in close-quarters for functionality of the distance game, without losing longer distance game]
- Ganon (same as Bowser, though instead is overly reliant on the simple SH Aerial + faked into Aerial Side-B/WL > Grab mix in Neutral for it)
[less recovery on Dash Attack/Aerial Side-B > less commitment on attempts to catch opponents in this situation/faster active hit-box or more range on Up-B > for OOS behind for more interesting dynamics in vs Ganon match-ups]
- Lucario (Overall Neutral without Aura Charge, or how effective a difference with AC is vs without to make up for it in terms of ToD and sustaining presence in Neutral once triggered)
[stats slightly altered to Crouch Cancel better > more passive-aggressive options in Neutral to transition, counter, and convert off of + STEEL TYPE DUH/every-so-slightly faster Down-B, maybe a frame or 2 start-up faster]
- ROB (effective aggressively-passive play in Neutral that can convert to a ToD or a process for it, overly reliant on precision to position tedious/risky tools with limits on what's universally rewarding)
[Somewhere from 10 to 20 degree up and down angling on Aerial Side-B > precision positioning that still takes the same commitment > requires repeated connections to gain reward, this is the core of his theme]

3
D3 (dealing with high aggression or passive-aggressive play... overly reliant on too few tools and can't be applied in a way that drastically changes functional play-style extensively enough to match/compared to all others > may not need to, but may end up far too polarizing to function if so)
[More BKB on several attacks, like F-Tilt > More presence on the stage against all forms of opposition play-style outside of directly converting hits in Neutral that lead to his fairly able ToDs and stock taking processes]


THERE

I did it!


Edit: Red?

 

[DMG]

This yellow color may have been the worst choice ever. I have to highlight it on the neo blue SWF theme because it's near impossible otherwise

Edit: Red is much better, can't speak for anyone that's RG colorblind but it's good otherwise

 

[Kyu Puff]

This yellow color may have been the worst choice ever. I have to highlight it on the neo blue SWF theme because it's near impossible otherwise

Yep. I wish people would just type in default color and use bold if necessary.

 

[Nausicaa]

PRETTY RAINBOWS EVERYWHERE YAY

 

[DMG]

If I'm reading that list right, then I strongly disagree with Sheik not being with Peach Wario etc. At absolute worst, you'd figure Sheik is roughly equal with Peach (or Peach somehow caught up). It's more likely that Sheik is a tad better, and wholly deserves being mentioned up near the top.