Tier List Speculation

[nimigoha]

I want to see more Ivysaurs using instant SH Fair IASA Wavelands/Nair/Synthesis.

She needs buffs though. Her OOS game is pretty bad and her grab sucks.

 

[JesteRace]

PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP I think you're overrating Ivys ability to get charge against a majority of the cast. Solarbeam is great but all it does is keep her in your "Ehh" tier she certainly not the worst by any means but actually getting charge is way harder than it seems at least at the moment it is. Sothes run could have easily ended is his bracket at KOTN got Orly or Kells or Ripple just went Samus from the start and not have been a moron. he got a fine bracket for an Ivy of his caliber to get through but it still doesn't change the fact that Ivy only wins against like 5 characters people can get better at using counterplay vs Ivy but Ivy is really pushed in comparison to most PM characters and thats simply due to there not being much to explore I believe the big thing that can be pushed is using seed to help cover multiple options but as she is now she is way too susceptible to CC and her moves come out too slow to rightfully get these conversions in a vacuum but the human element is always involved which is the only way raw up airs will land.

I'm pretty sure Sothe 2-0'd Orly without breaking a sweat. Just sayin.

 

[Saproling]

My bad then.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Jamwa

Interesting. For clarity, Melee ness' is from 20-28. PM Ness' is from 5-13. If you could clarify a bit more in words exactly what you mean, I think it would help a lot. From my personal experimentation with djc characters and the first bit of that match, I think I am understanding what you are getting at. But for those who don't, trying to put it into words might help.

If you had to put a number though, what frame would it be active? 10? That wouldn't be too bad.

PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP

Re: Squirtle
Yup, that is the struggle. In my theory filled, he has so many options for almost anything, has a solid gimp game, crazy kill potential, and an auto tech chase (this can be used for kill setups in case you didn't realize). He also has some of the best retreating to aggressive options with hydroplane stuff. But this is all theory. In practice, it is very easy to get caught in the grind and see/blame the flaws and lack of results on the character. This is for everyone. I think he has enormous potential, but I don't have near enough "in practice" stuff to muddle that. I'm just some random who hasn't be shown the dark gloomy grind of developing a character, so this is not shots at Squirtle mains. Just my perspective.

 

[Strong Badam]

I want to see more Ivysaurs using instant SH Fair IASA Wavelands/Nair/Synthesis.

Pri sure committing early in neutral is generally bad against good players.

 

[nimigoha]

Fair's got good range, as long as you're not running and going full air speed into their shield...

Sothe did a bunch of SH Fairs in his set vs Prof but if he had done them slightly earlier he could fade away and heal autocancel without getting touched.

 

[Saproling]

Prof could have CCd and punished a lot of those though it would be tight he can do this till really late % due to being heavy.Spaced fair is still good its like her best tool for neutral in most MUs aside from maybe Down tilt but heavys can certainly abuse her for using it too much or mindlessly trying to fit pokes in.

 

[Jamwa]

You really have me thinking hard about this. Can you give me a situation where having this new dair would help his neutral out? I feel like this is really really interesting. But I have problems believing that it would help is punish game. Dair is ness's best tool in punishes bar none. It does so much. I have trouble imagining ness having a stronger punish game with this new dair. It would also greatly limit his OOS options as djc dair OOS is an amazing move for punishing unsafe or poorly spaced moves and if it didn't have the speed it does now, It would lose most of that utility as It already takes 10 frames to come out of jumpsquat, djc first frame possible, and then 5 frames for the move to come out. Again if you could elaborate on how it would help his neutral I'd really appreciate this, as it still couldn't be used as an approach option.

suggested listening

Nair is a faster option oos than dair (by 1 frame) and whilst it doesnt combo (few characters can combo oos) it does the job.
This change is not focused on improving Ness' punish game at all. Ness does not need dair to be so fast, because all of his other moves combo amazingly, and increasing this startup will give Ness' more options to select:

• Autocancelling a djc fast fall dair on shield much like Peach's float cancel fair, allowing us to land safely even if hitting a shield from in front, an option that ness currently lacks in neutral. of course, it is super safe when used on platforms and retreating since it is so easy to ledge cancel.
  
• autocancelling a djc dair by landing on platforms before the hitboxes comes out to quickly move around platforms with only 4 frames of lag, basically an improved waveland in place that you can opt to ledge cancel as a mixup.
• DJC dair, since it takes 10+ frames to activate, gives you time to drift control Ness after his DJC before the hitbox comes out, allowing you to aim shield pokes and even gives you time to mixup what side of the shield you hit so the opponent isnt able to always react where you might shield poke from.
  01:44:50 is a perfect example. pcg shield DIs towards the right but i crossup.
  
• Much better combo potential for dair -> uair, since you suffer less lag compared to the l-cancel lag of the current dair.
• unique djc movement is available, such as weaving around approaches and being able to return in time to punish, especially good when running off ledges and djing instantly instead of going through jumpsquat. i am not a good artist.
  1:49:30 shows this done from offstage.
  
• lets you bait out anti air options and getup attacks when in the air as you can delay the timing of your DJC to "stall" in the air and then fast fall down as the dair hitbox comes out to instantly punish the bad option (remember, if you predict wrong, you have time to just drift away safely or hit shield safely!)
• after you SDI fox's uair/fox misses his uair, you can instant DJC FF dair, and since the hitbox is delayed, you can DJC earlier than normal, drift towards fox, and be next to him before he can fall down in some situations. this is basically punishing fox's uthrow uair, but i haven't perfected this yet as it only works when fox jumps to a certain height and if you DI correctly to ensure fox must commit his movement if he wants to uair, letting you predict and react to where he goes with the DJC FF before you're hit by the uair (unfortunately, i have no footage of this).

http://www.twitch.tv/melbournemelee/v/25195920
0:27:17 for 1st set, 1:44:27 for 2nd, 2:17:26 for 3rd.
shoutouts to melbourne melee dom hynes for the super cool input display so you can see how i control ness.
These are the most recent recorded matches of my gameplay, which currently incorporates fullhop DJC mixups of dair if they stay on the ground, retreating fair if they try predict my dair and jump towards me, or nair if they try to wavedash/move under me (predicting a fair), OR EVEN djc pk fire if they choose a defensive response to an approaching dair/fair and wavedash back/dash dance/short hop. i still havent incorporated many techniques into my gameplay which will increase my option select when in the air and increase how threatening ness is after a fullhop, but we're just talking about dair so i wont go into detail because its mostly all possible in pm anyway. i made a placeholder thread for these techniques on the melee ness boards if anyone is interested.
when the twitch vods are uploaded i will edit this post with timestamped youtube links since i know twitch is a pain to use (also frame skips).

in conclusion, it should be obvious to everyone that ness' punish game is completely fine without a frame 5 dair and this change is the much needed buff to ness' neutral game. this is an overall nerf to his punish game, but i believe this balances out the character much more by making his neutral game more complex, harder to adapt to and understand, and overall makes ness' risk:reward ratio in most matchups a lot less risk and a bit less reward.

Jamwa

Interesting. For clarity, Melee ness' is from 20-28. PM Ness' is from 5-13. If you could clarify a bit more in words exactly what you mean, I think it would help a lot. From my personal experimentation with djc characters and the first bit of that match, I think I am understanding what you are getting at. But for those who don't, trying to put it into words might help.

If you had to put a number though, what frame would it be active? 10? That wouldn't be too bad.

as i said, to know what frame is best to make this move active is very hard to say right now because i'd have to test and measure how significant ness' movement is after however many frames after each varied timing of DJC because i don't have the same level of control and intuition surrounding ness' double jump in pm compared to melee. for melee's jump physics, i think a 15 frame dair would be the fastest before severly limiting the mixup options i use, and would change the maximum height at which ness can double jump cancel from whilst putting a hitbox as you land.
i can estimate at least frame 10+, as you can wait around 10 frames in melee depending on height to initiate the fast fall and pm ness' DJC isnt that different. you can begin to fast fall in pm much sooner though so that decreases the delay required

 

[SunnieHD]

I want to see more Ivysaurs using instant SH Fair IASA Wavelands/Nair/Synthesis.

She needs buffs though. Her OOS game is pretty bad and her grab sucks.

I just want more ivysaurs

 

[Boiko]

I don't think that I really have the time to explain how wrong all of that is, and why it wouldn't actually work the way it is being presented. Ness' "ridiculous dair combos" are not ridiculous. And he's not way too powerful.

You are talking about dramatically increasing the start up of one of his moves for a six frame cut off at the end. You are destroying his ability to punish missed techs in favor of a platform AC that he can already do with bair. It is an objective nerf. I have no idea what you are talking about with having more maneuverability with the move. You can still do effectively whatever you want with it and delay it however you please. All of his aerials AC out of a short hop anyway. And don't forget you have a magnet, which you can b reverse to bolster your movement options, and it's +4 on shield when DJ'd out of.

Ness' weaknesses to shielding is misinterpreted. It is not a weakness to shielding. It is a weakness to run up shield, which is used to counter all of his options at once. It is good counter play and you should not be putting yourself in that position in the first place. Ness has a pretty easy time baiting shield grabs, and there are very few characters that he cannot do it against (Marth, D3, Roy). His punish game requires a read if your opponent techs the dair. Why should the character be punished because your opponent is having a hard time with a fundamental mechanic of the game? Granted, he can use DJC to set himself closer to the ground to try and follow the tech, but that is very difficult, especially when your opponent DI's the dair in a certain direction and techs in that direction. It is far too significant of a distance for him to follow up, even if you have bad tech rolls.

Stop taking Ness to stages with platforms if you have a problem with this. Stop taking Ness to long flat stages if you cannot SDI his horizontal combos. Ness is somewhat on the weaker end of the spectrum in my opinion, but no character is awful. He is pretty much fine for the most part.

 

[Farquaad]

Yeah Jamwa , stop taking Ness to stages with platforms. Lmao

 

[Boiko]

Sorry, stop taking Ness to a stage where dynamic platform interactions are much more frequent or cannot be effectively worked around.

Didn't think that needed to be explained.

 

[Beorn]

Why is anyone complaining about ness? He's exactly where a character should be in this game. Clear weaknesses and clear strengths. Winning matchups and losing ones.

Kudos to you ness mains for having a good time with the wario matchup. I envy you. To bad swordies stomp your frail child's body.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

if where a character should be is having 90% of your neutral options limited by a run up shield and requires losing a double jump in the air in order to play any sort of neutral

then I sure hope the dev team thinks differently

 

[Boiko]

Many of the other characters who utilize their DJ in the neutral game seem to be mostly fine. Maybe not Yoshi, but I think that's for different reasons.

If run up shield is a problem, bait it and work around it. It only becomes an issue when the Ness player is continually committing to options from a high single jump. If they get punished for doing it over and over, and don't adapt and figure out a new strategy, it's the player's fault, not the character's.

 

[Ripple]

I honestly hate when people just say ness is just beaten by run up shield.

If such a simple strategy worked all the time or even half the time then nesses wouldn't be placing well or taking games from high level players.

So either people don't understand run up shield or he can cover his so called pitiful neutral by doing other things

 

[Beorn]

if where a character should be is having 90% of your neutral options limited by a run up shield and requires losing a double jump in the air in order to play any sort of neutral

then I sure hope the dev team thinks differently

Yeah, weaknesses are pretty great. I wish more characters had more of them.

 

[Luk101]

Run up shield stops AGGRESSIVE ness players. Ness cannot put on intense prolonged pressure against most of the cast. If the ness tries to overwhelm the opponent, run up shield beats it. But IMO that is not how ness should be played. He has to play a patient neutral as he really has no solid offensive tools, and his projectile puts the opponent at an advantage if you arent careful. I haven't had a problem with run up shield for a while since I realised ness isn't fox and you have to wait till the opponent comes to you and punish. I like to wall out with bairs or shield an approach and punish with a djc bair or dair OOS. Also Beorn , you just sound salty about other characters beating your character, and you can't figure out a way around them. I'm not really sure what you're hoping to achieve by saying things like you wished more characters had a bad neutral.

 

[Player -0]

I think the point Jamwa is trying to make is you weave from above. Like DDD. Currently the only hitbox that comes out later in your DJ cancel is like Fair/Nair/WeakBair. All of those are kinda bad.

Personally I wouldn't like the change. I like muh aggro ham Ness

 

[Boiko]

Beorn is just stating that it is okay for characters to have well defined weaknesses, and in his opinion, that isn't widespread throughout the cast.

 

[Life]

While I don't agree with Jamwa's premise (Ness too powerful? Seriously?), I think what he's getting at is that he wants an aerial that comes out later relative to the momentum shift caused by the DJC.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Most characters don't have weaknesses, they just lack certain strengths. That's not really the same thing, and I don't see a problem with that. Designing characters with weaknesses in mind forces stale linear gameplay of abusing that weakness, whereas giving them tools to to compensate for strengths they lack causes unique interaction between the two character's abilities to flex their existing strengths. Case in point are mostly slow characters without projectiles, you just kinda pick a fast character and DD them to death. And if they never commit, you just go in on them at your leisure, or corner them if they back up to avoid that aggression. The neutral mixup just plays in favor of the fast character waaay more and in a very straightforward manner

 

[_Chrome]

I think it would be a horrible idea to nerf Ness in any fashion since the nerfs from 3.0. However.... the dair change sounds interesting from a design perspective. I could see it having some benefits, but overall I think it would be a nerf. I'm of the belief that Ness and Kirby need to be more similar (not the same or based completely after) their Smash 64 counterparts. I think Ness needs to be faster on the ground slightly: too much and he would be a little dumb, but besides that Ness in 64 was pretty well-designed, besides having difficulty in neutral (of course) due to his poor range, his poor grab range, and his horrible recovery.

If Ness had new or different strengths to back up his 64 style in PM he would be incredible.

 

[nimigoha]

Been spending more time fiddling with Pit. Not as bad as I thought. Dthrow/Uthrow sorta DI mixup for kill setups. Utilt (when it links properly) sets up perfectly into Up B kill.

If he had the 4 frame jumpsquat and a landing hitbox on Nair, with Utilt and Usmash linking properly I see no glaring problems with him. Except @InfinityCollision showed that his airdodge animation makes some of his waveland stuff really crappy too.

 

[Jamwa]

oh man.

let me be clear. i think ness is good. i see absolutely nothing wrong with this character. i stated that the change would buff ness' alleged weakness to shield/run up shield. i dont personally have any problem with shields, it was just something i said to try convince people who held that opinion.

a slow dair is just a stylistic part of ness that's been in brawl and melee and what makes the character more unique and deep. it facilitates unique djc movement instead of always just doing it as fast as you can. it delineates ness' aerial movement. it allows for cool mixups on shield since its +0. it just adds to his movement and option select in neutral, but makes his punish game harder (which i think it can afford to be, since it's incredibly easy right now).

i dont care about ness' balance. i just want ness to feel more like ness, coz right now it just feels like he's missing a whole dimension of movement.

im on a trip out of state right now to SXC, so ill elaborate and address everyone's responses when i get back on tuesday.

i dont expect to convince anyone of this change in just 2 posts either, i understand how much worse it seems, because that was my perspective when starting melee, but now i feel its integral so im committed to explaining my position as much as possible.

 

[Setton]

I could also see Pit's dtilt being a bit faster, it's pretty slow.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Do not speed up Pit's dtilt anymore. I used to hold this opinion until I started looking at what it does and comparable moves for other characters. 9-11 is not slow. Especially for a meteor dtilt.

 

[nimigoha]

Do not speed up Pit's dtilt anymore. I used to hold this opinion until I started looking at what it does and comparable moves for other characters. 9-11 is not slow. Especially for a meteor dtilt.

I agree wholeheartedly. Used to think it should be sped up.

Peach is frame 12, Ike is frame 14, Link is frame 10 I think(@AuraMaudeGone if it has 9 startup is it active on frame 9 or 10? IMO saying a move is active "frame 7-13" is way less ambiguous but you do you).

So Pit's is outright the fastest Dtilt with a meteor unless I missed someone? Seeing as it combos at most percents it's pretty good as is. If you want a fast move after landing, use Dsmash.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

I agree with a lot of what Life has to say on the topic of pit buffs. I don't pit is very good, maybe even bottom 10. I like his idea on fthrow buffs, I agree that dash attack (maybe just the tip hitbox) needs to be better as its crucial to his play, multi hits being fixed are a no brainer (for sure up tilt and up smash, nair isn't as bad).

 

[Luk101]

oh man.

let me be clear. i think ness is good. i see absolutely nothing wrong with this character. i stated that the change would buff ness' alleged weakness to shield/run up shield. i dont personally have any problem with shields, it was just something i said to try convince people who held that opinion.

a slow dair is just a stylistic part of ness that's been in brawl and melee and what makes the character more unique and deep. it facilitates unique djc movement instead of always just doing it as fast as you can. it delineates ness' aerial movement. it allows for cool mixups on shield since its +0. it just adds to his movement and option select in neutral, but makes his punish game harder (which i think it can afford to be, since it's incredibly easy right now).

i dont care about ness' balance. i just want ness to feel more like ness, coz right now it just feels like he's missing a whole dimension of movement.

im on a trip out of state right now to SXC, so ill elaborate and address everyone's responses when i get back on tuesday.

i dont expect to convince anyone of this change in just 2 posts either, i understand how much worse it seems, because that was my perspective when starting melee, but now i feel its integral so im committed to explaining my position as much as possible.

Not that this is the end all be all, and every main can find something wrong with their character, but even the best ness's agree he definitely has flaws and he is not easy. One of his biggest is his recovery. Yes it is the longest it's been, but how can you say that a negatively disjointed move, that takes 40 frames to end the animation, can get gimped out of it by people bumbling around above him and eating his pkt1, has 20 frames of landing lag no matter the height you all from, and even though you can be extremely creative with your angles (which is extremely difficult to consistently get the perfect angle you need) you have no options after you hit yourself to mixup. You will always go the same distance unless you sweetspot, so pretty much the entire cast can just sit in the middle of the stage if you're recovering high, or at the ledge recovering low and wait for you to go the full distance, and charge a smash attack. Most ness's get killed by edgeguards or gimps of some kind. Even if this is the only thing wrong with him (which is not true IMO and is a controversial topic) this would still keep him from being in the S+ tier you put him in or even S tier. This feels like a john about ness being bad therefore I can't do well no matter how I try, but it's not. I'm trying to get you to realise that just cause he is better in this game than other games, doesn't mean that he is instantly top tier. If he has nothing wrong with him AND he is easy to play, then why doesn't he dominate the meta and just make every character look inferior?

 

[Smash John]

I agree wholeheartedly. Used to think it should be sped up.

Peach is frame 12, Ike is frame 14, Link is frame 10 I think(@AuraMaudeGone if it has 9 startup is it active on frame 9 or 10? IMO saying a move is active "frame 7-13" is way less ambiguous but you do you).

So Pit's is outright the fastest Dtilt with a meteor unless I missed someone? Seeing as it combos at most percents it's pretty good as is. If you want a fast move after landing, use Dsmash.

TLink on frame 9 and Lucario and Zelda both on frame 5.

It wouldn't be too outlandish or without precedent, but i'll agree with you that it's not really what Pit needs imo. He definitely needs help in other areas more

 

[Jamwa]

If he has nothing wrong with him AND he is easy to play, then why doesn't he dominate the meta and just make every character look inferior?

im not trying to convince anyone to share the same opinion as me regarding his position on the tier list, just his dair's design.
i included my perspective because a lot of responses were asking why people were complaining about ness' weaknesses, and i wanted to make it clear that balance isnt the motivation behind my proposal. pm me if you want to talk about strengths and weaknesses.

 

[nimigoha]

TLink on frame 9 and Lucario and Zelda both on frame 5.

It wouldn't be too outlandish or without precedent, but i'll agree with you that it's not really what Pit needs imo. He definitely needs help in other areas more

Forgot about grounded opponent only meteors (and Tink), good call.

Like Dtilt right now is usable and very effective if you land it. Utilt and Usmash and Nair border on impaired.

B U F F J U M P S Q U A T

 

[Beorn]

Run up shield stops AGGRESSIVE ness players. Ness cannot put on intense prolonged pressure against most of the cast. If the ness tries to overwhelm the opponent, run up shield beats it. But IMO that is not how ness should be played. He has to play a patient neutral as he really has no solid offensive tools, and his projectile puts the opponent at an advantage if you arent careful. I haven't had a problem with run up shield for a while since I realised ness isn't fox and you have to wait till the opponent comes to you and punish. I like to wall out with bairs or shield an approach and punish with a djc bair or dair OOS. Also Beorn , you just sound salty about other characters beating your character, and you can't figure out a way around them. I'm not really sure what you're hoping to achieve by saying things like you wished more characters had a bad neutral.

I'm sorry, saying run up shield beats ness is oversimplifying this game. Run up Grab with ness beats run up shield. You could even run up past their shield and pivot grab, if your opponent is really going to play so poorly against you. Not only does ness have a very threatening 7 frame grab game, he also has a projectile and pretty amazing movement. He may have a worse time in neutral than say marth or shiek, but his nuetral is by no means beaten by one strategy.
This isn't directed at you obviously. I just don't think it's a good practice to wish your character, who has an amazing punish game, movement, projectile and kill throw, could also have free **** on shield. That's how you end up with fox. As you said. Play patient and use the tools you have. You will lose to some characters who out neutral and out punish you. That's a bad matchup. If you have too many of them, maybe ness needs help. Though it's also possible, that the character you are fighting is dumb and needs to be fixed. Free **** in neutral, and incredible punish games together should not be par for the course. This only works if everyone has these absurd attributes, and I don't know about you, but I'm glad the days of 3.02 are behind us.

Thanks Boiko exactly.

nimigoha Links Dtilt is frame 10 on his knee and foot. Frame 11 for the full range.

 

[Life]

re: Pit dtilt, I wouldn't mind losing the meteor on it in exchange for better frame data (both startup and endlag).

I see Pit's dtilt as mainly a CC option; if the opponent misspaces, Pit can crouch and get a quick dtilt aerial for twentysomething percent and then transition into his powerful juggle game. (Dtilt meteor at the edge is pretty strong of course, but it only works if the opponent fails at sweetspotting--unless proven otherwise, I prefer to assume my opponent will either sweetspot correctly or not sweetspot at all and act accordingly. No reason to add something to your playstyle that doesn't scale well versus better opponents. Lastly, in neutral you could call out a grounded approach with it, but its frame data and unimpressive reach makes it much more likely you'll get punished for throwing it out. DD grab in this situation is a much safer option that could potentially also be more rewarding.)

However, while the meteor makes dtilt a strong option in this situation (it prevents the opponent from simply CCing back), it also holds dtilt back. Dtilt's endlag makes it very unsafe on shield unless spaced (just like every other tilt in the game), but its startup means that even in the situations where it's useful, your opponent is liable to get out a shield before you can actually hit them with it (or spotdodge because they're expecting CC grab).

By shaving some frames off the startup and endlag of dtilt and removing the meteor, you are keeping fairly comparable combo properties, making it more vulnerable to CC (I don't know when it would break ASDI down exactly, depends on if KB values were also rebalanced), but making it more useful overall as a CC tool since it comes out faster and making it a much better neutral poke as well.

Thoughts?

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I want pit to have his collision points adjusted so he can perfect waveland and reduce his jumpsquat to 3 frames

otherwise I think he has enough pure tools to deal with most of the cast

I also would like to see ness be able to cancel his pkt2 with b like spacies can cancel illusion but idk

 

[NOTMalachi]

Can someone explain why pits jumpsquat needs to be reduced? Peach and falco have pretty slow jumpsquats aswell but I've never heard anyone complain them in my life. I guess you could argue they're better characters than pit but I'm curious why everyone seems to think his jumpsquat is what's specifically is holding him back. Also please don't say something simplistic like QoL.

 

[Smash John]

Can someone explain why pits jumpsquat needs to be reduced? Peach and falco have pretty slow jumpsquats aswell but I've never heard anyone complain them in my life. I guess you could argue they're better characters than pit but I'm curious why everyone seems to think his jumpsquat is what's specifically is holding him back. Also please don't say something simplistic like QoL.

Peach and Falco also have fast and reliable air normals to throw out after the 5 frame wait. Pit has a bunch of long wind-up moves and nair, which doesn't really function as a get-off-me tool. He just kinda gets stuck where he is when confronted with any kind of pressure and doesn't really have an answer to it except grabbing misspaced moves or usmash (that they'll probably fall out of cause aforementioned linking problems)

On top of his grounded normals also being slow and committal, it all just makes for a bad time

 

[Player -0]

I don't really have a problem with Pit's current jumpsquat. There are more important areas to be addressed.

I've stated this before, just putting it out there again.

 

[Life]

I've posed this question before, but it's worth thinking about: under what circumstances would you *increase* a character's jump squat frames?