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This world... - The Subspace Emissary

M.K

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I think I put something "Smart" sounding in another thread, but I'm too lazy to find it, so here it is again:

I believe that Mario and Kirby are both doing the right thing, fighting, which is what they are supposed to be doing. As indicated by the picture, the "someone or somethings" that are breaking the rules are the supposed Halberd, and the cloud-look-alikes of characters. We have to think: Why do all the characters portrayed (supposedly) in the clouds resemble villains (Bowser, Ridley, Black Shadow, Hilary Clinton, etc.). Breaking the rules could mean them INTERVENING with the fighting. The terrible price the world is paying is the involvment of Mr. Mystery in the last picture there
 

TGM

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this guy reminds me of marx from kirby super star and the new bad guy from super paper mario.
 

Gindor

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Not talking much now, just PM if anything importan
FYI-I jumped to the end of the thread not reading anything for the reasons below.

I think that the ones breaking the rules are meta knight (leading) and the other villains. The rules probably say-to fight, but not to kill (as mario did), where meta knight, etc. want to rule the world by turning everyone else into trophies. He will probably replace bowser at the end of 1 player mode, and if you pick evil, the final match in link/mario/anyone that is a dynamic hero.
Maybe you'll get the character's trophy as you earn the/get them at start. That way, you can send out the trophy too fight!

I anyways would like to preserve this mystery, as it is a very good one.
It is very perplexing what place the hands will take now.
 

Ogre_Deity_Link

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About the whole characters-into-trophies thing, anyone besides me notice how it seemed to be forshadowed in the earlier game?

If this has already been discussed, feel free to call me a moron. I'd prolly deserve it.
 

tstumo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
378
I agree that if you play as a bad guy that you should fight one of the good ones. what i dont agree with is how Metaknight is the one breaking the rules. it clearly says that the trophies are supposed to fight. they show mario and kirby shaking hands. last time i checked shaking hands isnt fighting. and not fighting is against the rules. so i dunno how Metaknight is breaking them. if anyone is breaking them it's Mario and Kirby.


I think master hand sends out the bad guys (MetaKnight in this case) to fix that problem. Master hand since SSB put them to fight. so them shaking hands and getting along is out of the question. and Metaknight sends out the little henchmen (that purple puppet thing) im trying not to speculate to much.
 

Ba1100n_Drag0n

Smash Apprentice
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As I read through this topic has anyone yet suggested how that one purple blob guy could just be the referee of the match?
 

ti83pop

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Umm....no. I don't think so (EDIT: or not). Also, there seem to be many spawning behind him, so unless you need spawning refs for brawl matches, then I doubt it.

Again, remember that Master Hand is actually a little boy (we assume ._. ) playing with his puppet/dolls/etc . Meh. *pokes the clouds*
 

Croco

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Umm....no. I don't think so (EDIT: or not). Also, there seem to be many spawning behind him, so unless you need spawning refs for brawl matches, then I doubt it.

Again, remember that Master Hand is actually a little boy (we assume ._. ) playing with his puppet/dolls/etc . Meh. *pokes the clouds*
Well it could just be for story mode.. in a FMV sequence..
 

Sacred Vanguard

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Jul 3, 2007
Messages
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wait...
what if when it shows mario standing in front of kirby (statue form) that is when you know, you follow the rules and you did the battle, good job pat on back you go home end of story...

But what if the second picture is showing
NOT KIRBY BEING REVIVED, but Mario denying to finish him off
so they shake hands and say
LETS DO THIS!!!!
Then Mediknights ship, some clouds that are shaped like bowser, master hand, (supposedly) ridley, and boom, you have a fight on your hands!

maybe this will be kinda like a survival mode in a sense, like...
idk, you get a member to help you, people rush at you
you kill those little Goo-men all fast, then master hand comes out, YOU PWN HIM!
then Bowser and so forth...

idk, im just throwing some idea's out there for people to look at.

well, i think i've said enough...
 

SonicMario

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This isn't really too specific on the story. But it must be hard shaing "Hands" with Kirby. All he has is this liitle... KNOB thing to hold onto stuff
 

Sacred Vanguard

Smash Rookie
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Messages
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too tr00 he doesn't even have a thumb...how do u not know his hand is up by his 'arm pit'

but seriously
this level is CONFUSING
it makes me wanna find a copy of brawl
and play that level
and be like "WHAT IS IT ABOUT YOU!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!"
and answer all of lifes mystery's that way too!
 

Ba1100n_Drag0n

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I'll repost what I have said before.


They know nothing but fighting. Fighting is the sole reason for their existence.

Being turned back into a trophy, being unable to fight, is much like death.
This will specifically talk about the storyline mode of it, and... how it could make us care. For those of us who are dedicated to the Nintendo series of Starfox, Mario, and all the other games, then read this post... because this concerns the storyline of it.

For those of you who had played Final Fantasy 7, we all know it sucked when that one special girl died. We all know that really touched us. For those who played Tales of Symphonia, when everyone seemed to have sacrificed themselves for our hero, that really touched us too. We all know in the great RPG genres that some games had storylines that really made us care and want to find out more. Each RPG had its own special moment that was pretty memorable. Can Super Smash Bros. Brawl do that?

Now, this is what I want you to do: imagine each scene I describe in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. And tell me that won't make you care. But first, let me make some speculations...

Picture if Super Smash Bros. Brawl had multiple storylines that revolved around the same general plot. It would be like when you choose your character from the beginning, you would take the perspective of that character. If you chose Mario, you chose Mario's storyline. If you chose Kirby, you chose his perspective.

Would Brawl have such a heavy storyline that, if there were multiple perspectives, would you play the storyline at least once for every character? Would the Brawl storyline want to make you do that?

Now comes for the "imagination" part...

If Brawl could really make us care, there would have to be suspense, drama, and sorrow within the storyline. We would have to have every element an RPG could have--even the humorous parts, as dark as the storyline may seem now. Imagine...

... a fight between Fox and Krystal (if she's in the game). Though they love each other, because of the "rules of the world," they are forced to fight. Imagine Krystal or Fox becoming a trophy in front of each other... dead...

... now imagine the same thing except between: Mario and Peach, Link and Zelda, and any other "related" characters you could think of.

... imagine dialogue in the game. Actual characters talking and interacting with each other, talking about how they're being treated as gladiators/slaves. Imagine Metaknight making a large speech of how they could escape to freedom from the wretched arena--about having a free life.

... imagine a grand finale, where every single character joins up to fight the one force--the "rules." Imagine how they all team up, despite their differences and past rivalries, against this one force.

... imagine, if the Ice Climbers were in the game, the two being seperated from each other--and possibly forced to fight each other. The duo we once knew now against each other.

... imagine if there were more enemies than imagined. Maybe the classic enemies of Goombas, Koopas, and those annoying plant things from Zelda. Maybe the Heartless from Kingdom Hearts (if that's possible). Maybe some of those Android things from Starfox--maybe Andross himself.

... imagine the torture these characters face when their sole purpose is to fight and be slave-driven gladiators.

... imagine if Brawl made us care enough to shed a tear, or laugh aloud, or stomp our feet in anger at the game (due to the storyline). Imagine if Brawl could do all these things and create the next legendary storyline.

... imagine that, if we did escape to Kirby's homeland of Dream World, it being invaded by bounty hunters because "Kirby broke the rule" or it being corrupted by nightmares during Kirby's absence.

... imagine a trophy with a potential of wrecking mass destruction upon the world, awaiting to be awoken...
... a trophy hidden deep within the darkest corners of the world...

Now comes the concern: what if "The World" update was actually some sort of boring Classic-mode game? Where all you do is fight random enemy opponents? What if "The World" was just a more spiced-up version of Classic mode? What if there really is no storyline mode?

But the main topic here is if Brawl does or does not have an actual storyline mode--but more importantly, would this story make us want to care?

If people are concerned about "characters won't be able to talk," then here is a list of proof:

'cept a lot of the characters don't talk.
I have seen many characters from the Melee game talk; I'll list them.

Mario: He said simple phrases like "I'm tired" in N64, and did have his own kids' cartoon.
Luigi: He talked a lot to Mario in Paper Mario and the cartoon.
Peach: She has said a lot before--nearly in every Nintendo game she was in.
Bowser: Said plenty before, such as in N64 and Sunshine, along with Paper Mario.
Yoshi: Yoshis spoke the normal language of people in Paper Mario--but otherwise they didn't... but still.
Donkey Kong: I specifically remember him having his own CG-cartoon before. But otherwise, no.
C. Falcon: He's talked enough already--****ed taunt...
Ganondorf: Zelda series.
Falco: Starfox series.
Fox: Starfox series.
Ness: Someone clarify me on this; I do reckon he had his own RPG but never knew if he talked in it.
Kirby: He doesn't actually speak advanced but I'm sure he could say simple phrases like "Hi" or "Huh?"
Samus: She's voiced by Jennifer Hale in the Prime games, and in Zero Mission near the end where you infiltrate the pirates ship, she talks ( but with no voice over, just text).
Zelda: Zelda series. I would include Link and Y. Link but they don't say anything coherent.
Poke'mon: They say their name--Poke'mon like Mewtwo however do talk.
Roy/Marth: Fire Emblem series.

So nearly every character in Melee talked at one point in time.

---

Also, the idea of having one super-powerful trophy that has yet to be awoken is pretty awesome to me. What is the rules created were meant for safety, and when these rules are broken, "a terrible price must be paid" and the great trophy comes? These rules aren't necessarily bad things.

It would be pretty awesome that you can take on the perspective of a specific character when you first begin and from that point onward. It would increase replay value much and for those who are hardcore to the storyline then it would satisfy players. It also gives you something to do in your spare time when there aren't friends to play with in Smash.

Another note that should be concerned, as I vageuly mentioned before, what if Storyline mode is just a beefed-up Classic mode that's pretty lame on plotline? I'd be pretty disappointed, but meh. We can't assume much yet until we are supplied with more hints as to what the story would be.

For those who are concerned about how "Brawl can't have a storyline! It's a fighting game to the pure! It's not an RPG!"

A game doesn't need to be an RPG to have a thriving, deep storyline that's dramatic and intruiging. A fighting game like SCII maintained a firm (although pretty boring) storyline in it's single-player "Weapon Master" mode, and I've heard hints as to Mortal Kombat also doing this in one of their games. They are both not RPGs, but they both have storylines. So why not Brawl? Why can't Brawl be the "movement" of fighting games and step up to be a change?

With the unique, intensive battle system of Brawl combined with Nintendo's cast of characters, a handful of third-party figures, and a possibly epic and legendary storyline, I don't see why Brawl would be the game of all time in the up-coming future.
 

Sacred Vanguard

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****...that was deep and a lot to take in...I like ur whole perspective on this, i look forward to reading more if u decide to add anymore on this subject
bravo!

also
*FALCON PUNCH*
ya ok, he talked lol
 

Fawriel

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Holy crap... I concur. Hah, so you are the reason this thread's title got edited? I wonder who did that. There's a spelling mistake in it. :p

Unfortunately... as amazing as the post was, your storyline as well sounds TOO deep. Smash is supposed to be somewhat mindless.. hence why it's called Smash. Hulk smash!
I don't see them adding actual drama... although it could be wonderful... waaah, I'm torn!
..either way, it's still very unlikely. Unfortunately. :ohwell:

If I could be bothered to go through the whole thread to pick out the best theory to place on the front page...
Oh well, not like anyone actually reads the first post. *scratches head*


To address some of the fighting throughout the thread...
Please never assume that you are right.
Some say that the heroes broke the rules, others say that the villain(s) did it. There's enough evidence to support both theories. In the end, it depends on where you stand philosophically.
Fighting is the sole reason of their existence?

Does that mean that fighting fulfills them, that they enjoy it, that it's good for that to be their sole reason of existing? Alright.

Or is it a dystopian world of mindless fighting for the sake of entertaining a mad, childlike "god" of the world? Do the heroes long for freedom, to be able to do things besides fighting, to be friends with each other, to live their own lives?

It all depends on where you stand.
Personally, I prefer freedom to mindless fun.
 

Katy Parry

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A lot of those characters, Such as Ganondorf, Link, and Zelda do not talk in thier games. Zelda dosen't talk. She gasps. Ganon laughs, and Link grunts like he's being buttfuc*ed by Ganon-and likes it.


But they do talk in their cartoons of Zelda.


Text talk dosen't count. If anything, it would be cool to have voice overs, like one the best games ever, "Baten Katos"
 

Sacred Vanguard

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Messages
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good points to you as well, Fawriel
Ya smash is kinda suppose to be, lack for better words 'simple minded' in the story line productions
In melee there wasn't dialogue in between each fight, it was nothing that in depth...too bad though...

but i just noticed something...sorry to throw some people off...
but do those Mindless Clones look like ubered up bomb-ombs?
i see the big opened eyes and the black round face
and then at the top
its almost like a whisk coming out of it...
does anyone else see it?
 

Sacred Vanguard

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Messages
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SEE!!!

are these clones we are all talking about
just mindless bomb-ombs that run into?

COME ON PEOPLE, LOOK AT THEM!
me and Rodgers cannot be the only ones!
 

Jason777123

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
29
ok here i go again

Most of you think meta knight breaks the rules!?!? If metaknight broke them why does it show mario a kirby joining teams huh? If you think about it kirby and mario broke the rules and they will get punished!:psycho:
 

Blackadder

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"Most of you think meta knight breaks the rules"
before that it was Most of you think meta knight breaks the rules
and before that it was Most of you think meta knight breaks the rules.
It seems to be a never ending chain of thoughts, lawl.
Anyways, Fawriel, I'm giving this thread 5/5.
*votes*
 

Kujirudo

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Ok so we have a freaking lot of theories right now. I'll line them up with my comments:

First, the 'who broke the rules' thoughts.
1. Mario & Kirby break the rules
This one sounds the most logic to me. The SSB world is designed to fight each other and when somebody refuses to fight, they break that world's rules. Mario and Kirby enter the arena, then Mario thinks of what happens when he defeats Kirby: The pink blob would be turned into a trophy again which is (as the description says) almost equal to death. Therefor, he refuses to fight and shakes Kirby's hand as a sign of friendship. And that is a broken rule.
* Another theory I've seen is that Mario and Kirby actually had a battle which Mario one, making Kirby a trophy again. Therefor, Mario revives Kirby, maybe because he feels bad of what he has done, breaking the rule of letting the one who lost stay as a trophy.
2. Meta Knight breaks the rules
This is not the one I agree with, but it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out true. Meta Knight suddenly appears during the battle of Mario & Kirby as some kind of interruption which is not allowed. I didn't really hear a back-up for this theory except for the fact that people think that Mario & Kirby, 2 good guys, would never break a rule. Sounds acceptable for me. This theory could be true if we had some more information, which we don't, so right now it's not choice.
3. Purple Guy breaks the rules
Another thing which has been said is that the purple fellow in the last screenshot could have been the one who broke the rules. The theory was that this guy is only to appear when something happens (what would really cause him to appear was not posted). Therefor, that 'one thing' didn't happen yet he did appear which would be another broken rule. It sounds a bit farfetched to me since we have no idea what does allow him to appear.

Now, the 'who punishes who' theory.
1. Meta Knight & Purple Guy punish Mario & Kirby
Meta Knight appears right after the handshake of Jumpman and Pink Blobby, as does Purple Guy. It does make sense that they have noticed the broken rule and came to punish the ones who broke it.
2. Purple Guy punishes, Meta Knight doesn't
This one suggests that only the Purple Guy comes to punish. Meta Knight appears just for show to shout something like 'Wtf have you done' or (as I heard) to actually try to help Mario & Kirby fight Purple Guy. However, that last part sounds not logical to me. Why would an anti-hero like MK help them? Does he have a specific reason for that?
3. Meta Knight punishes by turning them into Purple Guy
Some people say that the punishment for breaking a rule is being turned into a Purple Guy. This does fit with the whole update since being turned into something like that is quite a punishment, so it actually sounds pretty logical to me.

Now, for the Cloud discussion
1. Bowser is up there
I am one of those who only think that Bowser is in the sky. Dark clouds have a very fearfull atmosphere around them and what's better than to put the King of Evil in the clouds then? Also, I haven't seen anyone here yet who has seen other characters in the clouds, but not Bowser. Or we are all complete stupid that we see Bowser there, or we are right.
Also, this sounds very realistic if this update was the intro for the Story Mode. This would mean that the Story Mode always starts with THIS intro, so not with other characters in it. Kirby sees the Halberd coming and Mario sees his rival in the clouds.
People also asked me why Bowser's appearance wouldn't be so obvious while Meta Knight's is. Well, if we are being critical, then is MK's appearance really that obvious? You see a ship, but do you actually see Meta Knight? Nope. So neither Bowser, neither Meta Knight are actually shown, yet you know that they have noticed that something has happened.
2. A lot of characters are up there
After Bowser, Ridley came. Then came Batman, Ganondorf, Master Hand and much more. They think that this is just like the Bowser sign: A sign of evil approaching. This does not sound realistic to me: We are just seeing what we want to see. 1 thing in the sky sounds acceptable for me, but more is too farfetched. However, there are still many people who believe to see more than just Bowser (although I highly doubt that things like Batman would be in the clouds).
3. The clouds are for show, there's nothing to be seen in them
The 3th group of people say that Bowser is not up there, nor is any other character. Those people believe that what I said before (see what you want to see) also counts for Bowser. It could be, maybe I and half of this forum are just imagining things.

My conclusion:
This is clearly a debate that will go on a long time, untill we got enough information to prove things. I already said in the above list which things sound right to me and which don't. However, you have to remember that what I've posted here are mostly just suggestions, speculations. There is NOTHING here that is official, thanks to Sakurai's gift of being able to post mysterious updates.
 

GaryCXJk

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Okay, let's put it this way.

We all forget about "this world" and see it in the view of something else. I'll then link back to the world, and show you how things can get less complicated, even less deep. Mind you, Smash is made for everyone, having an "epic" story does not appeal to kids from at least ten years old. You have to remember this.

So, let me begin with the back story. Imagine you are just a kid, say ten years old. You play with your trophies, Nintendo trophies, since you are a big-time Nintendo fan. You imagine them fighting against each other and such. You think up all the cool moves for them, and set your own rules, like, they can only be defeated if they fall of the table, which is fine, since they're tin or bronze trophies anyway, so they won't break.

But what if your little annoying brother comes in? One who is like, six years old. He keeps bugging you. Eventually you grab him by his pants and throws him out of your room. Your mom obviously gets pissed, why would you kick your own brother out of your room. But you say that you are playing with trophies and your brother just doesn't understand the rules of the game. But then your mother tells you you'll just have to teach your brother the rules.

However, you know how it goes with little brothers. They never follow the rules. They never listen to the rules. They just mess with your game, therefore ruining the game. In this case, your brother brings in his own Nintendo action figures. I mean, they're movable. They have joints. They probably have these cool sound features where when you push a button it makes the sound of your favorite Nintendo character. But that's not what you want. Your game is to make only trophies play with each other. The action figures just ruin your fantasy.

What happens varies. You lose interest in your game, in your fantasies, thus ending the game, or you can fight back with more awesome rules, so that eventually either your brother quits playing, or he follows the rules out of sheer awesomeness.

Now let's take it back to this world.

Imagine the trophies being your trophies. They play by your rules, and when you enjoy it, they enjoy it. As long as you play with them, they exist. Whenever you put them aside, they turn back into regular trophies.

But then the purple creatures come along to mess up this little game. Now the Nintendo characters have two choices. Permanently turn back into trophies, or fight back with their sheer awesomeness. They must show that trophies are the only way in this world. They have to, or it will destroy the very world they live in.

Oh, and the Halberd? I think it's just a decoy.
 

ClarkJables

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i think snake broke the rules, and i'll tell you why. in the first smash bros trailer we see snake is on a mission to infiltrate smash bros. i.e. he snuck into the games, and is himself not a trophy. because of this breach in the system the world is starting to fall apart. the games are becoming more violent, the rules are becoming more strict, and at this point it is a struggle to escape
 

ness4life

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*warning-almost completely off topic*

assuming that THIS WORLD is the intro, and that the text at the bottom of the screen is dialouge for a narrator, then I think nintendo should hire the narrator from Soul Calibur 2 to narrate the intro and other scenes in brawl. If you've played SC2, you know how awesome this would be...*drools*
 

The Incredible Giant Cannon

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No, I think that if it's the intro for the brawl, considering how dark it is, the text will probaly be white text on a black screen, then cut scene, then text, the screen. It would be funny if the announcer from melee did it, though.
 

Red Dominator

Smash Cadet
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Jul 21, 2007
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Mexico
wait...
what if when it shows mario standing in front of kirby (statue form) that is when you know, you follow the rules and you did the battle, good job pat on back you go home end of story...

But what if the second picture is showing
NOT KIRBY BEING REVIVED, but Mario denying to finish him off
so they shake hands and say
LETS DO THIS!!!!
Then Mediknights ship, some clouds that are shaped like bowser, master hand, (supposedly) ridley, and boom, you have a fight on your hands!

maybe this will be kinda like a survival mode in a sense, like...
idk, you get a member to help you, people rush at you
you kill those little Goo-men all fast, then master hand comes out, YOU PWN HIM!
then Bowser and so forth...

idk, im just throwing some idea's out there for people to look at.

well, i think i've said enough...
you saying it mint be sorta like a cruel man melee mode?
 

Wyvern

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I haven't read through this whole thread, but I DID look over the theory synopsis from a page or two back, so hopefully I'm not repeating anything that's already been said here.

From my perspective, it seems pretty clear that the breaking of the rules consists of Mario having mercy on Kirby instead of reveling in his victory, like he's supposed to. I'm currently assuming that the ruler(s) of this world--the ones who laid down all these rules--is some sort of dark and shadowy force, of which the purple guy is a minion or some other representitive. He IS pretty shadowy, after all.

The thing that really intrigues me, though, is the presence of Meta Knight. The way I see it, there are two major possibilities. First of all, it's possible that Meta Knight (probably along with most of the rest of the cast) has been corrupted by this shadowy force. Anyone who has played the Kirby games can tell you that Sakurai uses this kind of plot all the time...the evil Dark Matter infiltrating the world, possessing Kirby's friends and turning them against him, etc. That sort of thing could be happening here, and the objective of the story could be to rescue the other characters from this evil influence and then banish it.

The other (perhaps more interesting) possibility is that Meta Knight isn't under some sort of wierd control, but is willingly serving under the shadowy force (or even assisting in leading it, though that seems less likely). I mean, think about it. In the Kirby storyline, Meta Knight isn't just some generic evil guy lusting after world domination. He's a revolutionary who wants to bring discipline and order to Dream Land, as he's fed up with its residents' lazy and slothful lifestyle. Maybe he thinks that this world--one of endless combat, where strength is valued above all else--is the one he wanted to create all along. Other villains could have gone along with this too, for their varying personal reasons. In that case, the story could be based on rallying the other Good Guys to either defeat the Bad Guys or convince them to turn against their dark master (whatever it is) and bring peace back to the world.
 

Fawriel

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Imaginary +rep for Gary and Kujirudo.

Thanks for the summary. It's probably incomplete, but the best summary we have.
Did someone actually suggest that Metaknight turns the player into a puppet, though? That seems really, really unlikely to me.
Also, I don't find it unlikely that Metaknight comes along as a saviour to both of them. He's an antihero, but so is Wario. Wario does bad things but somehow ends up rescuing the world in the mean time or something like that. Metaknight is someone bent on being a hero, he just sometimes tries to save it the wrong way. The times he's depicted as villainous, he's mostly just of a different ethical conviction than Kirby, at most times, he's a rivaling hero. At least as far as I know, never played the games.

Gary...
That's just amazingly cool.
I have no objections.

Well.. almost. It seems likely to me that several guys just like the purple puppet thing are spawning. Unless different types of puppets, especially cooler looking ones, show up, your theory seems unlikely... but boy, is that a minor objection.
Even if it's unlikely to be exactly the way you described it, I love it. After all, there's something significantly evil about a little child...
 

Gamingboy

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Haven't taken the time to read all the responses. But did anyone else notice that that weird thingy is the same purplish shade that the Polygons were?
 
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