Social The Zero Suit/Samus in Shorts Social

[pichuthedk]

Was HM due to low attendance last season

Started attending tournies two months ago and now #3 on PR lool

Here's our derpy *** image

Yup I was just waiting to get bumped off that Image now I suppose it's time for me to plan the Hero's come back. The Ryoko Hiatus is over I'll be sure to be at least top 7 next season.

 

[Take 5]

We got our own subreddit, in case anyone missed the Smash reddit post a few days ago (like me):

https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroSuitSamusMains/

 

[pichuthedk]

<3 needed to find one someday xD.

 

[Shaya]

I would rather have flip jump not auto footstool. It's super annoying.

It would make the move insanely broken. Reducing the size of the footstool would be nice though, but even then, a little bit smaller and you're reliably crossing over people from above and the move becomes even more monstrous than it is.

I've thought about that auto footstool for a really long time. It's an almost ingenius function, at low levels (or wifi) it's insane how easy it is to get and the fact it is a kill move set up, at high level it is a heavy restriction and encompasses a majority of it's available counter play. So as a difficult move to master, it is easier at low levels to help new players, but is the basis of not having player's who've mastered it as untouchable flying demons of death; which it definitely would be.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I have the best avatar!

 

[pichuthedk]

So in terms of getting nerfed are we all In agreement that we learn how to beat players Like zero consistently, but let them win the tournaments so we can slip by patches unnoticed? xD

We can just make a living off non streamed 100$ mms lol.

 

[Shaya]

I don't know if their balance team cares enough about tournaments as much as we try to believe.
Choco has been no.2 in Japan (tournament results wise) for like the entirety of the game's life time thus far.
Although if a million extra instances of Diddy or Sheik on For Glory after zero winning a tournament? Yeah probably does something

But I'm scared most patches... I genuinely feel she sits (I originally had a h there, *whoops*) on a tight wire for being "strong" against more than just slow baddies with no range. Because she's "hard" and has to "work hard" to get things. Or simply put, she has A LOT of risk in her kit, they probably know that.

 

[pichuthedk]

I don't know if their balance team cares enough about tournaments as much as we try to believe.
Choco has been no.2 in Japan (tournament results wise) for like the entirety of the game's life time thus far.
Although if a million extra instances of Diddy or Sheik on For Glory after zero winning a tournament? Yeah probably does something

But I'm scared most patches... I genuinely feel she sits (I originally had a h there, *whoops*) on a tight wire for being "strong" against more than just slow baddies with no range. Because she's "hard" and has to "work hard" to get things. Or simply put, she has A LOT of risk in her kit, they probably know that.

It's no wonder life is so hard for me , I'm always like "it's ok I'm 0-suit no need to worry". Which leads me to not being honest in our harder MUs and then I wonder why people like ness just carried me across FD because I messed up that wave bounce side b/greedy nair.

So life of a zSS main we must be forever diligent and honest when in the neutral , release the kraken whenever necessary, instil the fear of God ...I mean boost kick into opponents, followed by using down taunt when your enemy is on the bf platform above you(I've always wanted to try to mind game someone with Marths up taunt and have them shield thinking it was up smash)

 

[Champ Gold]

Did they ever buffed her back air yet?

 

[Remzi]

I've got your back #Xanadu100:

Haha, the funny thing is I stole that sequence (not the spike, but the mixup) from Marss! So the Marss is getting called the Bengal. And the Bengal is getting called the Nairo

Heading to S@X on August 18! Any ZSS going who live in the MD/VA area? @ Remzi ?

No promises yet, but I'll definitely try!

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Did they ever buffed her back air yet?

Why in the holy name of latex texture would anyone do that?

 

[Champ Gold]

Why in the holy name of latex texture would anyone do that?

Because I like to have an aerial kill move that isn't just Up-air at high percents

 

[Metallinatus]

Because I like to have an aerial kill move that isn't just Up-air at high percents

You mean, like her Back Air?

 

[Shaya]

I totally wish it wasn't 8 frame start up lol.
But it's like... an amazingly good aerial as it is.

FYI sh air dodge into back air comes out, and as it's 8 frames start up and our nair is 10 and won't come out from a SHAD, it's the most reliable way of doing a close to the ground back air

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I just try to land D-Smash and do something cool off of that.

 

[Metallinatus]

Anyway, I just got home from vacation today and went to answer my dilemma and practice a little bit with her at Training....
It turns out that after all the Bair frames are gone she can get back to the ledge with a simple second jump lol
That damned wifi puts so much lag at the inputs in FG that she doesn't perform the second jump fast enough after the Bair is done to get back.... but her tether can easily get to job done after the second jump anyway, so that is my option for those cases.
So yeah, case closed.
Now I will try to learn to play ZSS without looking like a scrub.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Hey all, just thought I'd chime in real quick.

I've got a number of threads going where we've uncovered neat bits about ZSS, and some of those have kept going without me. That's pretty rad... and in some cases has warranted updates. However... outside a single event I've gone to in the past month or so, work has completely consumed me. I'm currently set to defend my PhD in Chemical Engineering at the end of August. Maybe I'll become Dr. Tuen after, ha ha.

Anyways, I just wanted to tell you all that I'll be trying to get back into everything here after that's all through and done with. Research into ZSS tech is still what I want to provide to everyone! So sit tight and keep hype kicking everyone else into nothingness. I've got some big plans for when I have more time, and it'll hopefully help us out quite a bit!

-Tuen

 

[ぱみゅ]

You say "Dr. Tuen" while having a Stein avatar.... not a super reliable picture....

 

[Tito Maas]

So guys, I think I'm on like Day 8 of picking up ZSS and for a couple of days now I've been seeing the improvement! I play against a few friends who are much better than me and even though my Pit is pretty good, my ZSS has been able to take games off of these dudes that Pit just wasn't able to do! Gets me pretty excited about where I can take her!

Played a very good Ike today and I learned how DSmash to UpB won't work if the opponent is really close to you. Lost a match because they were able to DI out and punish me on two separate occasions. Hella disappointing.

Guess I'll work on doing DownB combos out of DSmash when they're too close, but the bottom line, I'm starting to see ZSS's strengths and weaknesses and her potential. I still overall suck with her but it's coming along a lot better than it would by this point.

 

[Shaya]

I think ideally you are looking for trying to start boost kick "centred" within someone to avoid them falling out.

I've been doing aerial up-b over grounded for down smash follow ups with more consistent hits. Could be super confirmation bias though.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I think ideally you are looking for trying to start boost kick "centred" within someone to avoid them falling out.

I've been doing aerial up-b over grounded for down smash follow ups with more consistent hits. Could be super confirmation bias though.

This is actually a good idea if the opponent percentage is relatively low, since the small knockback can get them out easily.
It Shouldn't be necessary on higher percentages.
I prefer the dSpecial kick followup though as soon as the opponent hits roughly 70%. It's safer and looks more fancy. I think it even kills earlier.

 

[pichuthedk]

This is actually a good idea if the opponent percentage is relatively low, since the small knockback can get them out easily.
It Shouldn't be necessary on higher percentages.
I prefer the dSpecial kick followup though as soon as the opponent hits roughly 70%. It's safer and looks more fancy. I think it even kills earlier.

Well since people take reduced knock back from being burried by down b it seems like a situational judgement issue (to wait for the pop up , to just take the free damage or to do something like up air/ upsmash and catch them with it afterwards) to get the best bang for your buck...errr rather bang for their stock?

I've done that sometimes as well though although alot of my aerial boost kicks are to go and knock them up and off the screen.
Or just hit them up for that 1-3% -> FF and ponder why I didn't opt for something better xD.

 

[Peahnuts]

This is actually a good idea if the opponent percentage is relatively low, since the small knockback can get them out easily.
It Shouldn't be necessary on higher percentages.
I prefer the dSpecial kick followup though as soon as the opponent hits roughly 70%. It's safer and looks more fancy. I think it even kills earlier.

I also opt for dspecial kick more and more. Technically a dsmash at the ledge should result in a spike death as early as 30-40% on many characters. I'm fairly confident it's the optimal follow-up in many situations considering it's entirely reliant on us to land the hit where as boostkick can be DI'd. On stages such as smashville it's killed at stupid early percents off the side too.

Even at non-kill percents landing the kick is 18% I think? But then again a dthrow to aerial would do around the same.
EDIT: it's 14% my bad.

 

[Shaya]

It's 14%.

And when it's near the ledge in the right position I'll always down-b.

 

[pichuthedk]

Yeah 14% I guess I should stop being lazy and actually open my eyes when people are in that situation and I land the stun.

Also even if you mess up the spike and just kick them away because you acted to slow/miss spaced, the positional advantage is nothing to scoff at since you'll be able to act as soon if not before you hit the ground.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Well since people take reduced knock back from being burried by down b it seems like a situational judgement issue (to wait for the pop up , to just take the free damage or to do something like up air/ upsmash and catch them with it afterwards) to get the best bang for your buck...errr rather bang for their stock?

I've done that sometimes as well though although alot of my aerial boost kicks are to go and knock them up and off the screen.
Or just hit them up for that 1-3% -> FF and ponder why I didn't opt for something better xD.

We are talking about dSmash though, not bury. At least if my reading comprehension is still working.

 

[Peahnuts]

Bit of an unrelated note but might be worth mentioning that ZeRo now thinks ZSS is top 2 under Sheik on his twitter. If you check the replies you can see I got into a debate/argument with him haha. Hope this doesn't cause any uh... undesirable attention from Nintendo.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Bit of an unrelated note but might be worth mentioning that ZeRo now thinks ZSS is top 2 under Sheik on his twitter. If you check the replies you can see I got into a debate/argument with him haha. Hope this doesn't cause any uh... undesirable attention from Nintendo.

He also says we beat Mario and Diddy and go even with Pikachu.
I just wish he would stop.

 

[Peahnuts]

Someone I had a discussion with now agrees with zss being 2nd and also mentioned that her grab is better than most even after showing him the frame data... I need a break from this scene lol. My blood pressure can't take it.

I don't even want to mention some of the things I've heard in our region recently regarding zss either (even though there's only one zss that consistently places top 10 here, me lol).

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Someone I had a discussion with now agrees with zss being 2nd and also mentioned that her grab is better than most even after showing him the frame data... I need a break from this scene lol. My blood pressure can't take it.

I don't even want to mention some of the things I've heard in our region recently regarding zss either (even though there's only one zss that consistently places top 10 here, me lol).

Yeah, you need to filter opinions a lot. ZeRo sadly is one of them, which is pretty strange. He really appears to not knowing jack **** about anything besides Diddy and Sheik.

 

[Shaya]

Something something I'll make sure Mario is in our favour something something.

But realistically tippity top ZSS... how can it really lose to anything?

 

[David Viran]

Yeah, you need to filter opinions a lot. ZeRo sadly is one of them, which is pretty strange. He really appears to not knowing jack **** about anything besides Diddy and Sheik.

Zero did say he thought the zss/sheik MU is 45:55 in sheiks favor. If anything he knows what he's talking about here.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Zero did say he thought the zss/sheik MU is 55:45 in sheiks favor. If anything he knows what he's talking about here.

I always thought it isn't that bad. For every 10 hits (exaggeration) Sheik does we need to hit once to get the same damage output.

Something something I'll make sure Mario is in our favour something something.

But realistically tippity top ZSS... how can it really lose to anything?

Nope, unless Pikachu suddenly discovers a secret weapon that defies our spacing possibilities beyond being small.

 

[Peahnuts]

Zero did say he thought the zss/sheik MU is 45:55 in sheiks favor. If anything he knows what he's talking about here.

He said Sheik wins but not by a drastic amount which I agree with. It's the things he said regarding pikachu being fine and beating ness which irk me a little.

Also optimal ZSS is flashy ZSS. 8)

 

[Shaya]

Tried practicing spacing ff back hits of neutral air yesterday.
It's really hard.

But it seems to essentially almost always perfect landing if it hits something (including shields).
And it looks so clean as it does it too. The whip curves downwards all of a sudden, beautiful.

ZSS SHAD game is somewhat the truth as well.

Lots more crouching and crawling.
Crouch into rising up air = amazing.

Also full hops are the ACTUAL truth. Two aerials can come out before landing. Surprisingly effective as a walling stance.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Tried practicing spacing ff back hits of neutral air yesterday.
It's really hard.

But it seems to essentially almost always perfect landing if it hits something (including shields).
And it looks so clean as it does it too. The whip curves downwards all of a sudden, beautiful.

ZSS SHAD game is somewhat the truth as well.

Lots more crouching and crawling.
Crouch into rising up air = amazing.

Also full hops are the ACTUAL truth. Two aerials can come out before landing. Surprisingly effective as a walling stance.

Sooooo what did you hit/try to hit? Because trying to hit small things with rising uAir and bh nAir sucks. I know we can hit Sheik with rising uAir as long as she isn't moving...

 

[Shaya]

Mario seems to be a competent level 9 CPU at ****ing you up for making lazy mistakes.
(Like smash attacking any mistimed bh nairs).
I'm guessing that's roughly the highest height she can hit with it.

Rising Up Air does hit standing sheik but if she's in the lag of a move or in any move (she bends her knees with EVERYTHING) it can't I believe.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Mario seems to be a competent level 9 CPU at ****ing you up for making lazy mistakes.
(Like smash attacking any mistimed bh nairs).
I'm guessing that's roughly the highest height she can hit with it.

Rising Up Air does hit standing sheik but if she's in the lag of a move or in any move (she bends her knees with EVERYTHING) it can't I believe.

Yeah it can't, it's what I noticed as well. Rising uAir on grounded opponents will only find overall limited use I guess.

 

[Shaya]

It's good enough that if you can't do it, you're missing out on something vital if it presents itself as a punish.
The more you're comfortable with knowing the heights and animations you can hit people in, the better too.

But shad into ff uair is all sorts of good.
As I mentioned recently you can shad bair that's 8 frames but not nair which is 10.
You can shad ffuair and that's 6 frames, but you cannot for bair. It's very easy to buffer this too, if you're holding down on analog and c-stick up and let go it'll auto fast fall.

So I'd say SHAD FF Uair is something that should be near maximum frame advantage (possibly even perfect landing).

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

@ Shaya please enlighten me, how do I properly use SHAD? I can't remember ever seeing it.
Like when do I use it, how do I use it properly and why does it beat roll ins?