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The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

Espy Rose

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Updated the archive with an arse load of new content from the weekend, including videos of myself, Shugo, Speed, Shado, ithrowthings, Umby, Tenki, DDM, and WiFi videos of KidCraft, Infzy, and Gf2tw.

We also beefed up the Doubles section with videos of myself, Shugo, and Shado's matches from this weekend.

Most of this came from Infzy's YT channel.

Keep those videos coming in!!
 

Kupo Rose

It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
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Umby

Smash Master
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I'm just your problem~
Heyyy guys =)

I lurked for ages but now I wanna know what you's think of my Sonic from Scotland. No tournaments from where I live, all I got is just WiFi training =/

I be grateful for your input. Cheers!

vs Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwmAJ1Wef8w

vs MetaKnight (Month Old) (I havnt learned to shieldgrab yet [lolwut] and too reliant on ASC at the time)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3nWR-As94I&feature=channel

Rule of Thumb: It's actually pretty difficult to determine skill from online matches. Try to get offline matches recorded if you want accurate critique.
 

Curaga

Smash Ace
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Been playing Sonic for a month now and while this video isn't me at my best, I'd like to throw it out there to be critiqued by fellow Sonic players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USU_E0NN7Z8

Aside from my controller's failure to let me wall jump on my first stock, and my realization that spindashes detonate grenades: What was I doing horribly wrong? What should I be doing?

Thanks in advance. :D
 

Kinzer

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I can already tell you need better work on Grenade control.

You also Spindash way too much.

You airdodge/rolldodge too much as well.

Try playing against CPUs without any Special/dodge button inputs, it will make you rely less in them and help you get better all-around.

This is my last post before I leave.
 

Kupo Rose

It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
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Rule of Thumb: It's actually pretty difficult to determine skill from online matches. Try to get offline matches recorded if you want accurate critique.
Kupeh... Guess that throws my chances out the window. :laugh:

Thats the problem :dizzy: I cant. Theres no one whatsoever that I can play Brawl with offline, they either have a Wii but dont have brawl or they have brawl but they dont play to get better like what Im attempting to do. Online is my only practice.

I tried searching for Tournaments in my area and they are no longer available. Past tournaments were more Melee based anyway which I dont play.

Oh yeah thanks for the feedback Teh Umby about that turnaround grab, helped cleared that bit off my mind lol xD
 

Kinzer

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Okay I lied.

That's a shame, really I just despise Online play, I don't even feel like going into detail how bad it is.

If you can though, you should start bringing your Wii/Brawl with you, I usually bring my own set-up for that reason.

If you could also convince the scrubs you play with to try to get better, that would be great, but I realize how immovable they can be. :/

Hell, if you could host your own tournament, that would probably be great, or not even a tournament, just have a smashfest/ meet-up, that might work too.
 

ithrowthings

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Been playing Sonic for a month now and while this video isn't me at my best, I'd like to throw it out there to be critiqued by fellow Sonic players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USU_E0NN7Z8

Aside from my controller's failure to let me wall jump on my first stock, and my realization that spindashes detonate grenades: What was I doing horribly wrong? What should I be doing?

Thanks in advance. :D
I think I played you in an AiB online tourney once.

Anyways, as for the video the obvious things I noticed you were doing wrong were

1) too much dair

2) too much HA

3) too much spindash

4) not enough grabs


Now I'll explain in a little more detail

1) Spindash to dair might be okay in certain situations. While your opponent didn't punish it too much, it is still very punishable if your opponent simply shields. Dair has relatively low priority and loses to snakes u-air, bair, and utilt.

2) HA is meh. I really like the up high spring to dair to HA combo. Never seen anyone do that before and it worked well as a decent mixup. HA in general though is a very high risk small gain move. It has its uses but is very situational.

3) I would say 70% of your approaches were spindashes. If you were fighting Pit that would be fine because he has a tough time against spindashes. However, snake can just drop a grenade at his feet and roll away.

4) Sonic is all about the grabs. Especially against Snake. Where does snake dislike being? in the air. Grab to uthrow and read his next move. 80% of Snakes will just airdodge immediately expecting you to uair. This is a free re-grab. Many Snakes won't want to get regrabbed again and will try to second jump. Use an upair now. It's all about getting them up in the air and out of their comfort zone and keeping them there.

Also, you could have probably not SD'd that first stock if you used a wall kick. I used to be the same way. Keep playing and it'll come naturally. Good Luck
 

Kupo Rose

It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
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Okay I lied.

That's a shame, really I just despise Online play, I don't even feel like going into detail how bad it is.

If you can though, you should start bringing your Wii/Brawl with you, I usually bring my own set-up for that reason.

If you could also convince the scrubs you play with to try to get better, that would be great, but I realize how immovable they can be. :/

Hell, if you could host your own tournament, that would probably be great, or not even a tournament, just have a smashfest/ meet-up, that might work too.

lol oh well, when you go into detail Kinzer your essays posts are quite entertaining :laugh:

I used to bring my own console to my mates house then it got to a stage where I cba to take it back home, that was my old SEGA mega drive with my Sonic 2 inside >.< Its still in his house after like 3 years now. o_o

I might as well convince myself that SEGA will not ruin/humilate Sonic by putting him in a car in All Star Racing will release games which will bring Sonic back to what he was known for.. Speed & Adrenaline without placing really offputting gimmicks.

Host my own tournaments? it does sound good but cost/turn outs/suitable venue/transport availability/player skills just bug me and get worried if all goes wrong. I could round up some mates to my house for a MeetUp but like you said.."scrubs" they'll want to play with items on HIGH in Spear Pillar or something lol.

Thanks anyway Kinzer =P
 

Curaga

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Thanks Ithrowthings and Kinzer; I agree completely with the statements made. For the AiB tournament, its highly unlikely that I was involved. I don't own a wii so being in an online tournament would be challenging.

Clearly, I have a lot of trouble with approaching. My original main (and character I played since the first game) is Fox. Having a projectile, even one with no knock-back, is something that I've just grown accostumed to. I think a problem with my mindset is that I have to use spindashes as my pseudo projectiles. (If that makes any sense) Because I really can't seem to just approach normally without some B-move action.

Anyway, the point of this is: What are different ways I can approach? Some advice offered to me by a frined (Toon Link player) was short hop-Fairs. This might seem like an incredibly simplistic and obvious question, but its really one of my big struggles with Sonic.

My current theory is that changing my L button to jump will help me short hop aerials, as well as cancel side-bs to improve my approaches.

Thanks again!

PS. My controller failed on me when I way going to wall jump on my first stock. I use it to recover all the time. ><
 

Espy Rose

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I might as well convince myself that SEGA will not ruin/humilate Sonic by putting him in a car in All Star Racing will release games which will bring Sonic back to what he was known for..
They put him in a car in Sonic Drift 1 & 2 back in Sonic's golden days.
They'd do it again.

No one should be surprised, but they are; idiots.
 

Espy Rose

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I'll see if I can update this sometime today.

Edit: Updated. New videos from Kupo and Curaga are available, and Shado's MD/VA video is also added to the archive.
 

Hence

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Presence of mind in brawl is an important thing, ITT. One will 'mess up' or do something they did not intend to do without thinking about what is happening at that time. Thinking about things that may happen will not only cause you to make mistakes, but it will also cause you to react impulsively. You must be ready for anything and it doesn't happen without a versitile playstyle.

I'm just guessing this is what's troubling you.

:037:
 

Camalange

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This is what I'm talking about when I say "you do exactly what you intend to" If I tried something like that, I'd run too far and whiff a grab or do a fair instead of a bair. So if he did that tech on the dthrow and did a forward b instead of sidestep, would it hit?
Well, It wasn't exactly what I was going for, but when I noticed the Marth tech, I was just like "****...let's jab since that's my quickest option" *comes out on frame 3* and when I saw him spotdodge the jab, I was just thinking "lol...grab". Since I already had him in the grab I figured since he teched the Dthrow once and got punished for it, I would do it again to get inside his head a bit. So I dthrowed again and he reacted the same way...lol...then I was like "wonder if we can go for a third" and that time he didn't tech, but was put offstage...where I then said "Marth's recovery is lol" so I stagespiked.

And tbh, I keep wanting to test what character's can do out of the dthrow tech, so I have a feeling Marth COULD UpB/SideB, but there's also a possibility that Sonic could get a shield up in time.

I also cosign to what Hence said.

Midwest looks out for one another son?
lol...I was thinking the same thing. Even came into the Sonic boards to share xD Now that's determination.

:093:
 

Espy Rose

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Presence of mind in brawl is an important thing, ITT. One will 'mess up' or do something they did not intend to do without thinking about what is happening at that time. Thinking about things that may happen will not only cause you to make mistakes, but it will also cause you to react impulsively. You must be ready for anything and it doesn't happen without a versitile playstyle.

I'm just guessing this is what's troubling you.

:037:
That avatar is a smidgen too cute for someone with a blue name.
 

Sh4dey

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Coming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bob0G1DcD4&fmt=18 - Sh4dey (Sonic) vs. Alter (Kirby)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrmZPr5VsIY&fmt=18 - Sh4dey (Sonic) vs. NERO (Link)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKi_PvEr7Ws&fmt=18 - Sh4dey (Sonic) vs. Alter (Metaknight)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAIEy7FKA0&fmt=18 - Sh4dey (Sonic) vs emo (Pit)

None of these were on WIFI.

Well, here are some of them vidz I did in this week.
I had like ten more with friends better than my brothers, but my camera and computer are calling the other vids corrupted, so I couldn't upload them.
Those as well shall be fixed and uploaded in another week. Critics are always welcome.
 

Chis

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrmZPr5VsIY&fmt=18

The one with the link

0:04 Good
0:09 You should have shield grabbed him/ ftilt him. You need Fsmash fresh for kills.
0:12 Ftilt > Fsmash
0:32 Don't DI into the ****. DI towards the ledge instead, it's safer.
0:35 ^^^
0:47 HA is bad. You should have daired instead
1:00 Spin shot is not the best approach Sonic has, better used when his Link was actually throwing stuff at you
1:16 Could have gotten a spring gimp :/
1:21 Good
2:16 I approve
2:23 Stop DIing into the ****
2:59 Good
4:11 HA = bad
4:14 I approve

To sum it up:
Less HA
Use Ftilt rather then Fsmash at lower %
More side taunt
Less spin shot
Don't DI into the ****
Needs a lot more up throw, it's good a building %, unless you wanted to force link off the stage
More feints aka SDSC
Work on your approaches perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKi_PvEr7Ws&fmt=18

I don't like this Metaknight, anyways....

0:18 Stop Fsmashing like at, Ftilt or a grab to up throw could have worked
1:16 ?
1:12 Almost SD'd....
-:-- Everytime you run away, you run towards him 90% of the time, bad habit
-:-- Mix up your feinting with more RASC and SDC. If you want to feint with dashes, learn how to DDP.
-:-- You're missing a lot of grabs, work on that
3:09 You should have ledge dropped, double jumped then ASC.
3:12 DI would have been the best option here
3:18 A VERY bad idea. There was no reason to do that
3:37 Ftilt > Fsmash
3:48 The HA is BAD, don't use it.
3:52 Missed a Ftilt OoS
4:50 Should have tired to instant edge hog him
5:16 HA...
5:36 ...

To sum it up:
Less HA again....
Less Fsmash at low % again....
Stop missing chances to punish
Stop missing grabs, work on spacing
Learn DDP if you like dash so much
I didn't like that Metaknight
 

Kinzer

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I'll cover what Chis did not cover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bob0G1DcD4&fmt=18

:22 I notice you like to grab a lot... this isn't bad a long as you can land it, but it's best not to leave yourself open this... especially with Kirby and his WTFOMGBBQNOOBPWNCOPTORDOWNSENDAID FSmash, or whatever he has that is fast and would probably be a better choice for racking up damage.

:26 No Pawnching like this either, especially @ low percentages where Kirby can die faster than most normal characters.

:45 Good thing you weren't @ a higher percentage or that combo would've killed you if a swallowcide didn't. Try and pick up on how often the opponent wants to do this and punish them.

:52 Please avoid rolling as Sonic, it's just so much slower compared to whatever else he can do, considering that he can run FD in 5/60ths of a second short of one whole second, and a rollodge takes... at the least 1/2 that amount, which is ~.5 seconds usually lost. It mgiht have more frames I don't know, but you get the picture.

Your reaction for some reason seems delayed, a fine example would be :35. Maybe you just haven't completly achieved a full grasp on Sonic... I'm sure if that were Espy he would've probably DDPed for some serious mind-******... but then again not everybody (myself included) have mastered this kind of stuff, let alone even know what it is. I guess I'll let this slide but for the future go with what you know will work, not what might (I know this sounds stupid when playing Sonic is like a risk, but there are some you will have to turn down, to get around.*)

1:25 no FSmashing when he's respawning! :mad:

1:35 Kirby is pretty d*** hard to hit with SHFF Uairs.

1:50 No FSmashing there! :mad:

1:55 Love the side-taunt, but in this case where Kirby could've hit you with a Hammer and should've, it's best not to taunt.

2:06 No FSmashing right there! :mad:

2:15 DIing up would've saved you.

2:11 right there would've been a good time to use DSmash since he was trapped at the edge. Yes I realize this is before 2:15, learn about my time-traveling.

2:27 FSmash woulddn't have gotten you punished and FTilt would've been better to punish with.

I think you mgiht also have a bit of a problem aiming Bair. Sure you hit a couple of times with it, but other times you aimed too low and instead of getting the kick out you you just fell onto your groin pelvic area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAIEy7FKA0&fmt=18

:07 Talk about a delayed reaction. :/

:08 I'll let this slide sort of since in real-time and in real situations maybe this wouldn't have entered your mind but grabbing would've been great, or a tilt ( I discourage use of UTilt however but right there it would've worked. ) .

:30 No FSmashing there! :mad:

:49 Whiffed Bair and FSmash make me sadface. :(

:53 Don't know why you ran away, another quick attack would've been fine right there.

:58
HA is bad.
1:04 All that running around and random FSmash make me one sad panda. :(

1:08 So does the lack of grabs that would've worked here. :(

1:24 Should've thrown in a couple of pummels there but okay, just glad you got a grab in.

1:42 Same thing.

1:44 Yet again, but a Spindash works... somewhat.

1:48 we do have to take into consideration how terrible his grab range is though.

2:05 HA is bad and I should feel bad because I would've done the same thing. :X

2:12 again up with the mindless runnin'.

2:50 One or Two pummels would've been nice.

3:09 Ouh...

3:45 One pummel was okay... HA is still bad.

5:09 <- Does not approve of the double FSmashin'. :mad: :mad:

5:58 One pummel is okay I guess...

6:08 I liked the first one better...

6:24 Yeah that's the way!

-End Critique.
 

Sh4dey

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I'm just stating a couple points here.
1. F-tilt > F-smash, it must be used for kills... HA is bad....DI away from the opponent...Space better...I Got it.
2. I think I have the wrong understanding of mind gaming, but since feinting with Spindash doesn't work on all opponents, I do the "mindless running" keep my opponents range in mind/check, keep the opponent guessing when and where I'm attacking since I try to stay close but not too close for them to hit, and to cover my lack of DDP mastery. Basically just to mix it up. I'll try to master DDP asap to avoid this error.

Thanks for the critiques so far , If that's not all keep them coming. My analysis alone isn't enough.
 

Camalange

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Zelda shouldn't be a problem. Probably one of the worst characters ever ;P

But good Yoshi's can be really gay. Somehow Yoshi can combo Usmash to Fsmash, which is beyond me. Also broken grab range is broken, along with a good air game can really be bothersome.

:093:
 

ShadoFiend

Smash Lord
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Happy Easter Lala Land
Some Matches I had at Genesis/James House

vs Zelda (Fresh) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcXR9OYFMtY&feature=channel

vs Wario (Malcolm)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTwbrDA9eBY&feature=channel

vs Sonic (Malcolm) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttLm4R5k7uo&feature=channel

vs Ike (Malcolm) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj4RdmQrB8o&feature=channel

vs Tink (Kato) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsZu4MFbk0Q&feature=channel

vs Zero Suit (2Quik) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEYCEbtU8y0&feature=channel

I already critiqued my own vids and noticed that my Mean Green is hella aggressive. It can either **** or get *****(Malcolm showed me this with Ike and Wario). I've tried to slow it down abit but meh. Don't hate me but I'm picking up secondary Campy Diddy until I fix my aggression problem with my Scourge. If my Campy Diddy fixes my weaknesses I may just keep him in the mix and stick with what I am doing. Only time will tell.
 

Kinzer

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I loved the part where you three-stocked Zelda.

Also where did you get that remix of Dreams of an Absolution?
 

4nace

Smash Ace
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Wow, awesome Sonic Shado. First time i've seen any of your videos and i was really impressed. Just a few things i noticed,

-When you got really aggressive against Malcolm's Wario, it might have been a good idea to stop approaching with spindash so much and let him approach. Some forward and up tilts might have helped you that match. I know its hard since Wario has such a good air game that you want to get him on the ground, but he was out-prioritizing you alot for the second half. Still you did much better than most Sonics on this board would.

-Awesome job against his Sonic haha.

-Against his Ike it was really clear that Malcolm knows Sonic very well and how to fight against him haha. Maybe baiting and then moving within ranged would've helped but he was auto-cancelling most his aerials anyway so the lag was pretty low. I guess i wouldve just sat back and enjoyed the **** =P
 

ShadoFiend

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Thanks for the compliment. People know me at tourneys and have heard of me but I don't post here enough. So you'll see me around much more.

Especially for some help with my bad match ups. I never fought a good Ike before. I went into punish and got a jab in my face :(
 

Umby

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I'm just your problem~
Thanks for the compliment. People know me at tourneys and have heard of me but I don't post here enough. So you'll see me around much more.

Especially for some help with my bad match ups. I never fought a good Ike before. I went into punish and got a jab in my face :(

Hence why my Avatar doesn't want you.
 
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