The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[C.J.]

Best combo is MK/IC

Someone CPs your MK to FD? K, you now have a near auto-win as IC on FD
-_-

 

[Conviction]

Yeah but MK is about 99.9999999999999999% (don't take that number seriously LOL) of that combo when you can just Ban/Strike FD.

 

[Flayl]

Best combo is MK/IC

Someone CPs your MK to FD? K, you now have a near auto-win as IC on FD
-_-

See the thing about the current counterpick system is that to use this combo people only have to learn how to use ICs on FD and nowhere else. No platforms, no shifting, just wide open space.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Pocket ICs on FD still lose to a pocket MK.

I personally use MK for almost all match-ups, though I use Jigglypuff when I am worried my opponent has experience in the match-up (this is normally against MKs, Diddys and Falcos).

 

[Life]

MK/Diddy > MK/ICs I thought

 

[Jimmyfosho]

too bad a lot of people that use diddy kong aren't even good with him.

 

[Raziek]

If it's so easy, Flayl, why doesn't everyone do it?

Probably because it's not that easy, and you're over-simplifying things.

Even if it IS easy, that has no relevance whatsoever, everyone can do it.

 

[Flayl]

Dunno why don't people do it. Ally did it. Cheese does it. Pretty sure Hylian has his own thing going on with G&W - Rainbow Cruise and ICs. Atomsk does it sometimes? Honestly for as much as Americans parade playing to win you don't make very smart decisions about it.

edit: A lot more people do the pocket MK thing. It's the same principle, except easier and with less of a reward.

 

[Ghostbone]

To be really effective with IC you really have to main them over just seconding them.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Since it was sorta ignored...

To the person that asked why we can't CP our bans...

Every set, ICs/Diddy/D3/Pikachu will ban FD
Every set, MK will ban Brinstar
Every set, G&W/Wario will ban RC

You see the problem?

 

[Life]

Dunno why don't people do it. Ally did it. Cheese does it. Pretty sure Hylian has his own thing going on with G&W - Rainbow Cruise and ICs. Atomsk does it sometimes? Honestly for as much as Americans parade playing to win you don't make very smart decisions about it.

edit: A lot more people do the pocket MK thing. It's the same principle, except easier and with less of a reward.

I pocket MK/Brinstar'd a Lucario once. (Sonic loses to Luc hardcore)

I still lost <.< Think I might mess with GnW for that kind of thing, or just play more Marth.

 

[Tesh]

Since it was sorta ignored...

To the person that asked why we can't CP our bans...

Every set, ICs/Diddy/D3/Pikachu will ban FD
Every set, MK will ban Brinstar
Every set, G&W/Wario will ban RC

You see the problem?

But if you use ICs and you ban FD, can't your opponent also ban FD? I've played sets where I and my opponent banned Brinstar, I figured thats how it worked.

 

[MK26]

Since it was sorta ignored...

To the person that asked why we can't CP our bans...

Every set, ICs/Diddy/D3/Pikachu will ban FD
Every set, MK will ban Brinstar
Every set, G&W/Wario will ban RC

You see the problem?

newest mk strat: ban brinstar so your opponent doesnt, then cp it.

damn, i never even thought of that

that would be ingenious

yeah, i figured as much

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

But if you use ICs and you ban FD, can't your opponent also ban FD? I've played sets where I and my opponent banned Brinstar, I figured thats how it worked.

So if you and your opponent are going to ban it..why wouldn't you NOT ban it and ban somebody else's stage?

So yeah, regardless, you are wrong. If a person bans a stage it cannot be CP'd AT ALL.

 

[Ghostbone]

So if you and your opponent are going to ban it..why wouldn't you NOT ban it and ban somebody else's stage?

So yeah, regardless, you are wrong. If a person bans a stage it cannot be CP'd AT ALL.

Umm, isn't that the point? If you ban a stage you're going to counter-pick and your opponent bans that stage, that makes your ban worthless.
So nobody would do that and it's not an issue.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I'm just addressing other people. What they are saying doesn't make much sense.

 

[MK26]

esam, if i ban my best stage, then that leaves my opponents best stage

so if an mk and a non-mk both ban brinstar, the mk basically just threw his ban away

but anyway thats a stupid scenario and should never happen

so the rule should stay the way it is

 

[Reizilla]

Or just say you can't play on a banned stage unless both players agree to it.

 

[Judo777]

How about the entire concept of 2 players banning the same stage is stupid, and playing on a banned stage is stupid. So no you can't CP a banned stage its banned, seems simple enough to me.

 

[Tesh]

M2K pulling out a timeout with 8 ledge grabs. RC needs like a 0 LGL for MK so he at LEAST has to fight on the boat phase. Its just ridiculous.

At least for THIS stage, 35 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high for MK.

 

[san.]

MK can only theoretically plank on the first part of the stage only a few times per match.

So, what's the problem?

 

[Tesh]

The rest of the stage is just a dumb game of camping the "good spot" where if someone not MK approaches you, they get gimped or die off the top of the stage at 30%.

Sure everyone top tier character has some options and some solutions to MKs camping, but none of them have enough solutions to make a difference.

 

[WindMajor]

Then why bring up ledge grabs? Ledge grabs are only there to stop planking, not stalling in general. If you want to bring down the LGL so that MK can get disqualified easier in RC, then you're using LGLs as a tool to stop stalling in general, and not just planking. That's not what it was meant for, and in that case, you would have to search for alternatives.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Ledge grab limits are so dubmb. whyh woul dyou need them? all dhtye do i snerf sertain charadcthers liek gamewand watch, If you want o stoo fplanking jus at bna merankight.

 

[Tesh]

Bringing the LGL way down means he has to fight on the boat or he CANT time out. Its either that or ban the stage. Unless people want to continue to see free wins for MK. Its not that it doesn't take some level of skill, but its not skill vs your opponent. Its just navigating the stage.

Its really a shame at this point. All the bickering about stages and how broken MK could be on Japes, PTAD, Norfair etc. seems like such a waste. Watching M2K play on battlefield and just chill in the air for 7 minutes with under 20 ledge grabs and stages don't really matter much anymore. MK can just do whatever he wants.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Again...maybe the general population complains about MK on Japes/PTAD/Norfair, but the BRC does NOT view stages in that 1-dimensional way. Trust me.

I'm pretty sure you are referring to M2K vs Bizkit. I like how you think it was a free win. Bizkit almost won and if M2K DIDN'T plank/scrooge the boat he would've lost. Hell, it killed him once because of the C4.

Seriously, he got outplayed, and getting outplayed in that instance was being timed out.

 

[Reizilla]

Bizkit still almost won after half-SD'ing.

Why were the commentators saying there was a scrooging rule? I thought the BBR-RC was against that?

 

[Tesh]

That last part I was talking about vs Dabuz where he wasted a helluva alot of time on battlefield. Now sure he CAN get hit while doing this, but the risk/reward is so horribly skewed. In grand finals, we more or less see the difference between "outplaying a metaknight while using olimar/snake "and "outplaying a metaknight while using metaknight".

Did M2K display the type of skill we want to test in those matches?

@ qB, those were just joke commentators. as entertaining as they were, they were just trying to get in their "wombo combo" one liner commentary.

 

[WindMajor]

Bringing the LGL way down means he has to fight on the boat or he CANT time out.

No, it just means he has to fight off the ledge, which if he's only getting 7 or so ledge grabs, means that he already is fighting off the ledge, in which case, the ledge was never the problem.

Like I said, you're trying to use LGLs to disqualify players that are running around the stage, and flying in the air to waste time. The ledge has no association with that, which means that bringing down the LGL will cause unfair disqualifications.

Did M2K display the type of skill we want to test in those matches?

Yes.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

So pretty much....you are saying that we should ban MK or limit his air time, both of which are terrible options.

I'm sorry that the best character in the game is also the best at timing people out. It happens...increased timers won't help, decreased LGLs won't help, nothing any will help. So yeah, MK is gay, but we can't do anything about it.

 

[WindMajor]

So pretty much....you are saying that we should ban MK or limit his air time, both of which are terrible options.

Or accept his gayness, all three of which are terrible options.

I'm sorry that the best character in the game is also the best at timing people out. It happens...increased timers won't help, decreased LGLs won't help, nothing any will help. So yeah, MK is gay, but we can't do anything about it.

I wish it didn't have to be this way.

 

[Tesh]

Twinkle, are you saying THAT is what mid level players should be aspiring to? What happened to the BRC saying "lets make the game pretty for sponsors". If you want to call THAT M2K "outplaying" someone. Then the LGL needs to be removed off of everyone else because Will "outplayed" Rich Brown in the same way. If the ledge has nothing to do with super camping then why do we even have an LGL?

 

[John12346]

Banning MK isn't a bad idea

Neither is accepting his gayness

Air time limit is though LMAO

 

[WindMajor]

Twinkle,

I stopped reading here, left my chair, raged around my house for a couple of minutes, then angrily marched back.

are you saying THAT is what mid level players should be aspiring to?

Mid level players should aspire to do whatever they want, but they must understand that there are certain things they must overcome to reach their goal.

What happened to the BRC saying "lets make the game pretty for sponsors".

Okay, please be clear when you say something like this, because the way it's written right now is really ambiguous and a pain to have to clarify over and over again.

When you mean make the game pretty for the sponsor, do you mean making the game itself, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, pretty for them, or the community that plays Super Smash Bros. Brawl?

I heavily doubt that sponsors even care about how pretty or fun a game looks, compared to how much they can benefit through the community. I don't imagine sponsors watching the game, seeing this incredibly gay match, then saying, "Even though we're benefiting from this game and it's community a lot, and from the looks of it, we will be benefiting from this game for much more time, the matches are really ****ing gay, and I don't want to put my resources into this gay **** anymore."

What's important for sponsors is that Brawl still has an appealing community that they can benefit from, not that the matches are entertaining to watch. When you bring the sponsors argument up again, please remember to make the distinction between a pretty looking game and an appealing community.

If you want to call THAT M2K "outplaying" someone.

Using Bizkit vs. M2K as an example, M2K DID outplay Bizkit. He did it by picking MK on Rainbow Cruise, unlike Bizkit who made the decision in the character select screen to stick with Snake, which is obviously not a good idea.

Remember, we're trying to be good at Brawl as a whole. If you want to win, the best way is to always pick the best options, and those decisions have to be made as soon as both players sit down.

If the ledge has nothing to do with super camping then why do we even have an LGL?

To prevent excessive planking.

Banning MK isn't a bad idea

Neither is accepting his gayness

Air time limit is though LMAO

They both have their undesirable flaws though.

You know....... intense ****storms.

 

[John12346]

Well, that's what the past few months of arguing has been

To figure out which option is best, I guess...

 

[Reizilla]

snip

The BBR-RC's john for why every character has a LGL, despite no planking other than MKs being broken, is that they want it to look good for sponsors. I'm not sure if Tesh supports that or not, but that's the reason we've been given, just saying.

 

[WindMajor]

*sigh*

I guess I'm done here.

 

[ElDominio]

As to TIOWUHOIWBTJHESVFIUHSGJBFLJASHVjldahbf vc's (TWINKIE STOP WHINING) post,

is true.

Sponsors don't give a quarter of a crap if the game is made out of flying ponies having fun with butterflies while singing "Chocolate Rain" through a flower bed.

If it sells, they sponsor.
Making the game look good help in part to sell, but a community that is willing to fork over the cash to said sponsor will attract them (the sponsors) the most.

A community made up of indecisive crybabies who don't like how the game is playing out right now, don't. In fact, they shun sponsors.

 

[WindMajor]

All I said was that you spelled my name wrong.

 

[ElDominio]

All I said was that you spelled my name wrong.

Isn't TIOWUHOIWBTJHESVFIUHSGJBFLJASHVjldahbf vc your correct name?