The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Ussi]

Picto had its chance in unity. And it utterly failed.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Not at all. People just kept raging at it.

 

[Ussi]

People rage about RC and Brinstar too, but they are still here.

 

[CT Chia]

Yea, there's no need to do Picto testing since it was already legal and banned recently

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

haven't been here in forever. anything actually important being talked about now? too lazy to go read the pages before this.

 

[Plasma]

haven't been here in forever. anything actually important being talked about now? too lazy to go read the pages before this.

You probably want to go do so, then.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Edit: Nvm

 

[Life]

Why does BRC approve of allowing broken stages like Norfair and Green Greens for testing purposes...
But not of banning similarly broken stages like Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise for the same reason?

... did you even read the new section?

 

[Tin Man]

So experimental ruleset isn't trolling?

N o

 

[~ Gheb ~]

... did you even read the new section?

N o

 

[Luigi player]

Why does BRC approve of allowing broken stages like Norfair and Green Greens for testing purposes...
But not of banning similarly broken stages like Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise for the same reason?

Suggested Ruleset Testing

Metaknight Banned
Brinstar and/or Rainbow Cruise Banned
2 or 1 stock matches with a different timer
5-9 stage starter lists
2 Stage Bans
Testing any of the following stages: Jungle Japes, Norfair, Pirate Ship, Green Greens, Port Town, Onett, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Luigi's Mansion, and Distant Planet

2 or 1 stock matches -_-"

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Oh lol, I missed the best part derp

 

[Keitaro]

Seems a bit confusing but I like this new idea.

I'm definitely interested in seeing the results of some experimental tournaments banning them. However to put things in perspective, LIRR and KTAR 6 both banned Brinstar and not much seemed to change overall.

I know top 8 didn't change much, especially considering people aren't going to beat M2K, Anti, Nairo, and Ally even if only FD was allowed in tourney.

Has the results for the rest of the tourney been looked at and analyzed? Seibrik did place 49th at KTAR 6 and he's a top MK.

 

[Life]

Seibrik did place 49th at KTAR 6 and he's a top MK.

Look at this from the Sonics' perspective. We'd thought KID was third-best (or fourth after Speed, YMMV), but he got outplaced by multiple other Sonics, some of which are probably worse than him.

The point? If KID can have a bad day, so can Seibrik. Doesn't *necessarily* mean anything.

 

[M@v]

Wait....you guys really thought he was a top sonic? :3

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think it's silly to expect a drastic change of results within just one tournament. People collect data for various "experiments" over the course of a year or more but the ban of Brinstar at ONE tournament only in the USA is supposed to change things right away? And if it doesn't happen immediately it's supposed to tell us that removing the stage is irrelevant?

That's a double-standard.

 

[Life]

Wait....you guys really thought he was a top sonic? :3

As much as he trash-talks (and as much as I yell at him for it), he's not actually that bad.

Then again, we only have two "top" Sonics anyway. And I'm not one of 'em, ROFL

 

[Tesh]

Lol, no one except KID and Mileg2g thought he was a top sonic.

InComs point still stands, though the lack of pools in a 100+ tournament explains the poor placement of KID and Seibrik. Though KID didnt really lose to anyone that impressive.

 

[Keitaro]

I'd do the experimental ruleset if its still going on by next year. If its not going on and Brinstar is still allowed then I won't do the experimental or Unity rulesets.

Also if a rediculous amount of players can't go to my tourney because of Red Cards I won't do Unity. Just giving a heads up.

Look at this from the Sonics' perspective. We'd thought KID was third-best (or fourth after Speed, YMMV), but he got outplaced by multiple other Sonics, some of which are probably worse than him.

The point? If KID can have a bad day, so can Seibrik. Doesn't *necessarily* mean anything.

Much love for Seibrik but 49th is a pretty damn bad day lol considering he probably never placed lower than 17th at anything ever. I was just using Seibrik as an example to say that the other placings should be taken into consideration and not just the top 8 where we know M2K, Anti, Nairo, Ally will be in regardless of what stages are on.

Also Seibrik can be an interesting example since he's a MK that lost to a Sonic and Falco at a tourney where Brinstar was banned, where Sonic and Falco are garbage on that stage.

 

[Life]

I'd do the experimental ruleset if its still going on by next year. If its not going on and Brinstar is still allowed then I won't do the experimental or Unity rulesets.

I'd assume it's permanent.

Much love for Seibrik but 49th is a pretty damn bad day lol considering he probably never placed lower than 17th at anything ever. I was just using Seibrik as an example to say that the other placings should be taken into consideration and not just the top 8 where we know M2K, Anti, Nairo, Ally will be in regardless of what stages are on.

Fair enough. Pools might have helped, but we can only theorize on that count (yes, I know you didn't have time, I'm just saying)

Also Seibrik can be an interesting example since he's a MK that lost to a Sonic and Falco at a tourney where Brinstar was banned, where Sonic and Falco are garbage on that stage.

I won't speak for Falco, but as a Sonic, I will only say that Brinstar is pretty much his only bad stage so I ban it against almost everybody--much like how MK has two particularly strong stages (Brinstar/RC) and with one gone everyone bans the other.

 

[MechaWave]

Aww, Mushroom Kingdom 1-1 isn't on the testing list? Whatever. Good for Green Greens though.

 

[CT Chia]

Seibrik also got 0-2'd by both people, losing on the neutrals as well. It's not like it went to game 3 where Seibrik's counterpick was crucial.
And the only reason he got 49th instead of higher despite losing to Speed was because Pelca also got upset in winners and it just so happened that the two strongest players in losers that early had to play each other.

 

[John12346]

GUYS, you can test stuff that isn't on the testing list, jeez...

There's a reason why it's called "Suggested Ruleset Testing." It's just a list of possible things you could do in your ruleset. It's not like you're completely restricted to the suggestions that they give you.

I could hold a tourney with Warioware legal and still get backing on it from the BRC, although I'd probably have to make one hell of a case for it, seeing as it IS Warioware...

 

[CT Chia]

yea, we're just throwing out some ideas of things you may want to test, you can choose things not on there.

But obviously you still need a reason to do so as John#s said about Wario Ware. Like we all know 75M is never going to be legal, so we won't approve any experimental ruleset featuring it.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Rainbow/Brinstar both remain I see...

I'm definitely interested in seeing the results of some experimental tournaments banning them. However to put things in perspective, LIRR and KTAR 6 both banned Brinstar and not much seemed to change overall.

This has kinda been predicted for quite a while. Just sayin'. MK doesn't need his "broken" stages; he still beats everyone in the game without them. Certain characters sure want his "broken" stages against him though (Ness, Link, TL, Sonic...)

Seems a bit confusing but I like this new idea.
I know top 8 didn't change much, especially considering people aren't going to beat M2K, Anti, Nairo, and Ally even if only FD was allowed in tourney.

Has the results for the rest of the tourney been looked at and analyzed? Seibrik did place 49th at KTAR 6 and he's a top MK.

Orion got 65th, and he's easily top 5 in Europe. You need to also remember that you ran a 130-man bracket. Results below 9th in a tournament setting like that can pretty much be drawn at random.

I think it's silly to expect a drastic change of results within just one tournament. People collect data for various "experiments" over the course of a year or more but the ban of Brinstar at ONE tournament only in the USA is supposed to change things right away? And if it doesn't happen immediately it's supposed to tell us that removing the stage is irrelevant?

That's a double-standard.

What are you trying to achieve/prove when brinstar is banned, Gheb? That MK is less broken? We have two tournaments showing that this is crassly wrong, and underlying theory backing that up. Should we keep proving it, or what?

 

[WindMajor]

Certain characters sure want his "broken" stages against him though (Ness, Link, TL, Sonic...)

TL doesn't really want Brinstar against MK. TL just wants Brinstar/RC so that the other characters like Snake or Falco can waste a ban on them.

 

[Tesh]

BPC, Orion also ran into a Sonic and lost. It has nothing to do with stages or brackets. Sonic is an MK counter.

 

[Ussi]

Lol Sonic's on a roll

 

[Jack Kieser]

*facepalm* That... that was a terrible pun.

 

[Conviction]

I thought we were going to ignore that bad joke.

 

[Chuee]

I thought it was pretty good

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

wait so what's different besides the testing stuff?

 

[Kaptain]

Im a TO and will be testing Luigi's Mansion and Norfair in doubles coming up, also I tested Port Town and Pirate ship at my last tourny in singles. No one played pirateship (probably forgot it was legal, but a few did play on Port Town. I'll load a few links below of some matchs from it. Also, I'll be happy to report back from my testing with my other 2 once the tourny takes place sept 24.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5HjC05Qqq8 (Second Match)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFH7RN3hlcg (Third match)

Sorry if you need to skip to them.
EDIT: the only thing different in my rules and unity are my LGLs, which are default 40 for everyone.

 

[Tin Man]

^ send PM to one of the 5 of us accepting expiremental Rulesets

I'd assume it's permanent.

It's actually temporary bro. It finishes on December 31st of this year, and then we collect data for a tim period, and then we re-release the system at some point.

wait so what's different besides the testing stuff?

Unity Ruleset covers the Countries of USA & Canada.

 

[Life]

So it's cyclical.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

well, on the subject of testing, i've been talking to sync/xyro about helping me host testing tournaments for you guys since before you posted that you will be accepting testing tourneys so ill be letting you guys know what i plan on testing for yall soon.

 

[Zzuxon]

I think Pitochat and/or Distant planet should be included. Their hazards are easy to avoid unless an opponent knocks you into them. Distant planet is balanced geometrically, and the vast majority of picto chat transformations are balanced.

 

[Alex Strife]

I personally do not like those stages but I agree. I mean the WORST that happens is that we show the stages are not that great and ppl want them banned...I mean more data is better.


I think also we should try some stages in doubles/singles only

like norfair and other bigger stages in doubles only

 

[Kuro~]

So went to a mk banned tourney yesterday. Rainbow Cruise was also banned. Wanna know the placings?

This was decided b4 i/we found out about the experiemental thing

ryo second best ike
redhalberd
2D-Jeff
2nlio
(also used vs and vs ) seibrik
xxxx
xxxx
Mink


I'll link the actual results thread once it's up...or not.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

So went to a mk banned tourney yesterday. Rainbow Cruise was also banned. Wanna know the placings?

This was decided b4 i/we found out about the experiemental thing

ryo second best ike
redhalberd
2D-Jeff
2nlio
(also used vs and vs ) seibrik
xxxx
xxxx
Mink


I'll link the actual results thread once it's up...or not.

RC was banned which means no one could use it as a DDD CP