"The Triforce of Knowledge" Ganon's Match-Up Guide: Character Review, Kirby.

[Ray_Kalm]

Really? I was thinking more of something like 75.75: 24.25, but oh well.

But seriously speaking, we could use some information on how to play in a Ganon ditto (epically).

 

[Anomilus]

I for one definitely could use some info here - especially when I have to face really good Ganon's that seem to know what I know but just know how to make it all come together.

Geez I should have something considering I've had many Ganon matches. Maybe it's I've had many Ganon matches but not as many EPIC Ganon matches, though they are all EPIC in nature....

... Maybe we should start with dealing with Ganon's DTilt. Can it be grabbed by Flame Choke? What about short-hop Wizkicking DTilts?

...Or about Short-hopping in general. What's the advantage of short-hop Air-dodging a Ganondorf in general?

 

[Conspiricy]

Me and shugotenshi did some ganon ditto's.

we ended up clanking 4/5 moves.

jab, jab, ftilt, dtilt, fsmash....we did that at exactly the same time.

matchup is sooooo...100-EPIC.

 

[ShinGaruda]

It's true, I rely more on trying to outsmart my opponent than exploiting my own weaknesses. This could be useful.

I believe you can flame choke dtilt, yes. If I recall correctly, that has happened to me and my opponents many times.

One thing that should be noted is that thunderstomping works very well. And gimping with tipman up to two times is usually all that's needed to stop the opponent and recover safely.

As for the flame choke game, as all of you know, your options are limited. However, that's not necessarily a bad thing, since your opponent's options are limited as well. Just predict your opponent, or train your reaction time depending on what he does next. If you can tell that he's gonna do a getup attack, powershield and then jab. If you've predicted him many times, there will be a period where he thinks about what to do next. Use this opportunity to dtilt him a couple of times.

Sure, pretty much common sense for people who do Ganon dittos, but this info isn't shared enough.

 

[PhantomX]

If you do not attempt too land wizkick spikes, ganoncides, warlock punches, or dair spikes in this matchup, you're doing it wrong... and boring.

 

[TP]

I must have played Gleam 100 times by now. We have perfected the art of Ganon dittos. First of all, always play on Bridge of Eldin, and never camp the sides. Second of all, most fighting should occur only when you both FoG at the exact same time and you meet in the air. It is important to have all ground attacks clank. For example, he was standing on the left and did an Utilt facing left. I was standing on his right and tried to Fsmash him. It clanked with his back.

 

[stRIP]

No words, most epic matchup ever

I would say 9001-9001

 

[A2ZOMG]

100-0 Ganon's favor. Ganondorf ALWAYS wins this matchup.

Ganon dittos, the most epic dittos ever. Because Ganondorf is a bad character, this means that the options he has aren't as gay, meaning that there is better flexibility in these dittos than in basically any other matchup.

You can play either offensively or defensively in this matchup for the most part, although this depends on part analyzing your opponent's strategy. There is pretty good room for mindgames on both ends.

Some things to note...well-timed D-airs stop the classic Flame Choke, Wizkick, and Dash Attack "approaches". Any other well-spaced aerial beats D-air, U-air is most useful due to its range. Spotdodging is actually useful in this matchup due to the commitment Ganondorf has on several attacks like Flame Choke. Ganondorf is also able to Jab out of spotdodge in this matchup effectively, even though I still wouldn't recommend it over shielding.

Most of the KOs in this matchup will be scored through undiminished F-smash, F-air, D-air, or gimps offstage. F-smash in my opinion, is much better as a damage tool than as a KO move. D-air is a great KO move, but mostly that only happens for revenge KOs, but if you're careful, and don't fastfall, you can get some easy spikes with it too. F-air is the best one for direct KOs IMO. Predict your opponent at the ledge, predict an air dodge, or anything they misspace, and you can land it pretty easily. More likely however, you'll be able to gimp your opponent once they go offstage. A well-placed U-air is your best weapon offstage of course.

Flame Choke is a big mindgame in this matchup, but it is still extremely useful. From what I observed, Swoops really likes doing retreating D-air -> Wizkick to cover as many options as possible.

And yeah, I dunno what else to say. Ganon dittos are too good.

 

[Z1GMA]

RCO lag is a big part of Ganon dittos.
If your opponents "climbed" up after recovering, you should pay attention to when he/she lands the next time; it could give you a free Fsmash.

Ganon Vs Ganon... I'd say 50:50, I dunno

 

[talkingbeatles]

No words, most epic matchup ever

I would say 9001-9001

Agreed. Play young Ganondorf v Oldmanandorf and huge portal opens in the sky.
Or maybe I was just playing on Bridge of Eldin...

 

[Ant1]

It's 200-0. Meaning, Ganondorf is his supreme power, manages to somehow win twice for each match.
Double the win = Profit??

 

[Clai]

If you do not attempt too land wizkick spikes, ganoncides, warlock punches, or dair spikes in this matchup, you're doing it wrong... and boring.

This guy knows the truth. Our Ganon dittoes were too epic. Taunt battles are so good in this matchup because Ganon's so slow that you can easily get a taunt in if they're away from you and you won't get punished for it.

I can hold my own against Ganon mains but I'm surprisingly bad against people who just pick Ganon for the lulz and have never actually used him. I play pretty technically so I hop around trying to do what I can and then, BAM! I get hit in the face with a forward smash. I mean when I'm playing those guys I don't really care about the results because playing in a Ganon ditto when you know the other guy isn't serious is simply way too much fun.

 

[:034:]

This is probably the match-up most Ganondorf mains are practiced in, haha

I don't like ditto's as much anymore.. I hate ditto's nowadays, because I got knocked out of tourney because my opponent CP'd a ditto match against me. >_<

 

[A2ZOMG]

LMAO, too funny. It seems we Ganon users have a thing for playing each other huh?

 

[Z1GMA]

- Well, Ganon dittos might just be the most fun dittos in the game.
Falcon dittos & Ike dittos are fun too.

 

[@HomE]

I feel like we should discuss this as much as we can, this is basically our only 100% "even" match-up. Not to mention one of the most epic things ever. I'm going to think about this match-up for a little longer and then edit this post. but i encourage you all to share you thoughts/tips on this match-up.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Do as Koskinator does. Run towards your opponent, turn around, wait for the spotdodge, Flame Choke. Is guaranteed to screw them up at least once. I copied Koskinator's strategy in Ganon dittos during Ganongasm and had major success with it...until I had to DQ myself due to time constraints.

It's the most epic bait ever...cause your opponent will almost always want to defend against whatever they think you were going to do because they think they are clever and can shieldgrab everything you do.

 

[TP]

Do as Koskinator does. Run towards your opponent, turn around, wait for the spotdodge, Flame Choke.

If your opponent spotdodges, they are brave. Most people would SD immediately if Ganon was running at them. Scariest **** since Marth's last slumber party.

 

[Noobicidal]

If your opponent spotdodges, they are brave. Most people would SD immediately if Ganon was running at them. Scariest **** since Marth's last slumber party.

Epic post is epic.

 

[stRIP]

If your opponent spotdodges, they are brave. Most people would SD immediately if Ganon was running at them. Scariest **** since Marth's last slumber party.

This post was the 1337st one in this thread and its epic.

Just wanted to say

 

[Divilenta]

lol, somebody needs to delete a post before TP's, making it post #1337 :D

 

[Noobicidal]

lol, somebody needs to delete a post before TP's, making it post #1337 :D

Excluding the OP, it IS post 1337.

Too good.

 

[:034:]

You can't delete your own posts, I'm pretty sure a mod has to do it

*wink wink nudge nudge*

 

[Z1GMA]

I received a warning for double posting the other day..

I was told that I should delete it, but then I realized I could't find a "delete button"

>_>'

 

[Zerxion]

If your opponent spotdodges, they are brave. Most people would SD immediately if Ganon was running at them. Scariest **** since Marth's last slumber party.

3:55 of this video proves this to be true

 

[A2ZOMG]

If we have time, I want to rediscuss vs G&W. Maybe I'm just dumb, but I started thinking uh yeah...this matchup kinda sucks.... =(

So anyhow...tell me how you counter something like Up-smash -> run away -> B-air.

 

[@HomE]

If we have time, I want to rediscuss vs G&W. Maybe I'm just dumb, but I started thinking uh yeah...this matchup kinda sucks.... =(

So anyhow...tell me how you counter something like Up-smash -> run away -> B-air.

How do you counter Up-B -> D-air, Up-B -> D-air, Up-B -> D-air, ect...

G&W's up-b is Reallly hard for me to deal with, and it just happens to be my friends favorite thing to do...

Flame choke is what saves me in this matchup, and D-tilt. maybe ill edit later if i can think of anything more specific.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Double jump U-air out of shield after he Up-Bs. Or you can try outspacing his D-air.

What I do more in this matchup as G&W is run up with Up-smash, charge it, release, run away, and B-air if you approach. Works a lot for me, so I'm asking how you counter that.

 

[@HomE]

Double jump U-air out of shield after he Up-Bs. Or you can try outspacing his D-air.

What I do more in this matchup as G&W is run up with Up-smash, charge it, release, run away, and B-air if you approach. Works a lot for me, so I'm asking how you counter that.

If a Ganon is approaching a G&W, hes doing it wrong...

 

[PhantomX]

Good luck not approaching a GW when you're losing.

 

[@HomE]

Good luck not approaching a GW when you're losing.

Mindgames son

 

[TP]

If you need an opponent to approach you, dash dance until you trip. 9 times out of 10, they'll come running over. Just time your invincibility frames and you will have the upper hand.

 

[PhantomX]

Why are you counting opponents stupidity in a matchup discussion? :\

 

[@HomE]

If you need an opponent to approach you, dash dance until you trip. 9 times out of 10, they'll come running over. Just time your invincibility frames and you will have the upper hand.

Yea, basicly if im actually playing to win (i play for lols alot) i will just be more patient, dash dance -> flame choke (isnt that a Kosk move?). im not saying that works every time, but if you get a choke off on G&W hes in deep ****

 

[Squirrely]

I think discussing ditto match-ups are ******** for any character.

I mean, we all know how to play Ganondorf and what he's good at and bad at.
Where and when to attack him, how to deal with his recovery, all his tricks, we all know these things.
What's to discuss?

Obviously anything you can think of to use on him, he can do exactly the same to you. His weaknesses are your weaknesses and his strengths are your strengths. The better Ganondorf wins is pretty much the bottom line in a serious match.

All seriousness aside, this is the match-up to do stupid crap and get away with it because Ganon is big and slow. Warlock punches, u-tilts, all that crap, even though the other Ganondorf should (*cough*Phantom*cough) know all about the range and hitboxes and situations to use these in, they'll still hit more often on Ganondorf more than most of everyone else because he's too big and slow to avoid.

It's kinda like a game of dodgeball, but all the players are fat kids who suck. A very entertaining match.

 

[:034:]

If you need an opponent to approach you, dash dance until you trip. 9 times out of 10, they'll come running over. Just time your invincibility frames and you will have the upper hand.

Mindgames boy

 

[PhantomX]

I think it's time to move along... dittos should juts all be labeled as "OVER 9000!" and not even discussed, really.

 

[Clai]

What I do more in this matchup as G&W is run up with Up-smash, charge it, release, run away, and B-air if you approach. Works a lot for me, so I'm asking how you counter that.

So what do you do if Ganon doesn't approach? I ask because if you're just throwing out turtles, we'll walk slowly toward you and Sparta Kick your turtle straight off the screen. We can also just run up and shieldgrab your turtle (you have to do it between the last aerial hit and the landing hit). Considering that up-smash baiting is one of Ganon's strengths, I don't think we'd be the type that would fall for other characters' up-smash shenanigans.

So I'm assuming we're going to use the rest of the thread to rediscuss problem matchups?

 

[Mr. Escalator]

They don't counter it. It's ganon looool

 

[A2ZOMG]

So what do you do if Ganon doesn't approach? I ask because if you're just throwing out turtles, we'll walk slowly toward you and Sparta Kick your turtle straight off the screen. We can also just run up and shieldgrab your turtle (you have to do it between the last aerial hit and the landing hit). Considering that up-smash baiting is one of Ganon's strengths, I don't think we'd be the type that would fall for other characters' up-smash shenanigans.

So I'm assuming we're going to use the rest of the thread to rediscuss problem matchups?

The point is, you can't punish Up-smash -> run away. And then if you DO try to punish it, the attempt is futile and results in you getting owned.

Up-smash has virtually no ending lag, and it's extremely safe on block. I can also run away faster than you can wizkick. You're never going to directly challenge G&W's Up-smash if you know what's good for you (it essentially has invul frames).

And before you complain about G&W's Up-smash being ridiculously slow or something, just remember that the actual charge release is 2 frames.

And other stuff...I know G&W can duck under the wizkick and jab...