"The Triforce of Knowledge" Ganon's Match-Up Guide: Character Review, Kirby.

[:034:]

Not like I know whether or not he's played M2K in friendlies, but I mean...it's likely enough, and we all know his favorite Nintendo character is Ganondorf...and that he also thinks Ganon is the least competitive thing in existence in Brawl.

Then why would he even try? :/

The thing is, I think there's also a big difference in skill level between Koskinator's Ganondorf and Inui's. The fact that M2K seems to get a little overwhelmed when he feels he doesn't know the match-up can lead Kosk to victory.

But honestly, Kosk, if you win from M2K, all of us will go to every Brawl forum and make as many threads about your victory until we all get our temporary b&. Then we will come back and say "worth it."

 

[thexsunrosered]

^
win

....

 

[Clai]

Don't play M2K!!! Do you WANT Kosk to lose to him in their MM at Genesis? We were discussing using Ganoncide because M2K would not know Fair can't beat it. Way to ruin everything, Clai.

Yeah, I played him for approximately one minute that day and now he knows everything about Ganondorf; it's all ruined.

I'll keep mum about Ganon until you fight him at Genesis, Mr. Koskinator. If I ever have to play him again, I'll just go with my other plan and sandbag his balls off with Kirby until he gets enraged and plays off his game.

Dammit Kosk, I want to play you, but California's a little too far for my liking. *sigh*

 

[ShinGaruda]

Bla bla bla Mr. Freeman

 

[Z1GMA]

But honestly, Kosk, if you win from M2K, all of us will go to every Brawl forum and make as many threads about your victory until we all get our temporary b&. Then we will come back and say "worth it."

I wouldn't mind doing that ^^

 

[PhantomX]

HOBO 16 in two weeks, low tier doubles, Team DOUBL GANON... it's happening.

 

[Z1GMA]

Team DOUBL GANON...

Reported* . . .

 

[talkingbeatles]

I recommend we all edit our posts to make it sound like something else. ASAP.

Everyone do this! Seriously.

 

[stRIP]

write

Bla bla bla Mr. Freeman

 

[Z1GMA]

write

Bla bla bla Mr. Freeman

Bla bla bla.. what was up with that lady, jumping down to the Polar bears, stRIP? O_o

 

[AgentJGV]

right...AND NOW BACK ON TOPIC!......maybe?

 

[adumbrodeus]

right...AND NOW BACK ON TOPIC!......maybe?

Ok.

He "safely outranges" (in other words, has longer range with his safe moves) Ganondorf. He has fewer safe on block pokes (fair, dtilt), but he makes up for it by having safe on block approaches (nair,dair, uair), as well as the mostly safe tornado if used properly. Feel free to add more if I'm missing something, but I'm pretty sure everything is there and everything there is accurate.

He pokes to cause shield pressure and then goes in with with either nado to shieldstab (Ganondorf is already bad at dealing with it, it definitely shield-stabs when dimished, and you won't have enough time to react and knock him out of it if he goes directly from another move) or a cross-up with nair for example.


Or Ganondorf approaches, and his safe on block moves in this match-up are... murder chock and dark dive, both of which we knock aren't effective approach moves. When you approach, MK punishes you, and then position is resut.


This continues till he gets you off-stage, and Ganon's recovery is too vulnerable to avoid him gimps, so off-stage is effective death. Or he decides to plank (dair might work against planking though, I want to try it properly).


His spacing and punishing game isn't anywhere near as strong as Marth's, but he makes up for it with a superior offensive, gimp, and recovery game, plus a FAR superior ledge game. Overall, Ganondorf is exactly the type of character that should most fear metaknight and this match-up is worse then the marth one, I'd give it an 80/20.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Ok.

He "safely outranges" (in other words, has longer range with his safe moves) Ganondorf. He has fewer safe on block pokes (fair, dtilt), but he makes up for it by having safe on block approaches (nair,dair, uair), as well as the mostly safe tornado if used properly. Feel free to add more if I'm missing something, but I'm pretty sure everything is there and everything there is accurate.

He pokes to cause shield pressure and then goes in with with either nado to shieldstab (Ganondorf is already bad at dealing with it, it definitely shield-stabs when dimished, and you won't have enough time to react and knock him out of it if he goes directly from another move) or a cross-up with nair for example.


Or Ganondorf approaches, and his safe on block moves in this match-up are... murder chock and dark dive, both of which we knock aren't effective approach moves. When you approach, MK punishes you, and then position is resut.


This continues till he gets you off-stage, and Ganon's recovery is too vulnerable to avoid him gimps, so off-stage is effective death. Or he decides to plank (dair might work against planking though, I want to try it properly).


His spacing and punishing game isn't anywhere near as strong as Marth's, but he makes up for it with a superior offensive, gimp, and recovery game, plus a FAR superior ledge game. Overall, Ganondorf is exactly the type of character that should most fear metaknight and this match-up is worse then the marth one, I'd give it an 80/20.

This makes sense. People were talking about how it's not such a bad match up for Ganon and I was like... "what?"

No... it's this ^, up there. Be scared of MK. Very scared.

 

[AgentJGV]

hmmmm. I'd say just because MK is so light, the match up would be 70/30 Still really bad for ganon but not "OMG DESTRUCTION!". Also MK is fairly easy to chain choke. FAIRLY easy.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

mk aslo has good grab combos, exspecially w/dthrow comboed w/another dthrow or maybe a upb or nair because of that ganon has less chances to get out if he doesnt know what mk is going to do.

 

[TP]

If MK grabs you near the edge, facing the edge, get ready to DI up. Dthrow leads to as many offstage Dairs as the MK desires if you do not DI up. As MK, I have done 4 Dairs followed by a footstool. DI up means you will take a Shuttle Loop to the face, killing you at about 50%.

In other words: don't get grabbed.

 

[MoblinMan]

Important question: Is the gerudo to F tilt guaranteed?

 

[Cold Fusion]

Important question: Is the gerudo to F tilt guaranteed?

I'm pretty sure it depends on the character.

Edit: Last time I checked, Gerudo to F-tilt is guaranteed on Meta Knight. I originally misinterpreted what you asked.

 

[TP]

Important question: Is the gerudo to F tilt guaranteed?

Yes, along with Dtilt, jab, and iDA.

 

[MoblinMan]

so is metaknight something that a good Ganon main countepicks against?

I was thinking: Go ganon first round, if it's a loss, go with your high tier secondary. But idk if the matchup is: low tier vs. God tier bad, or


Ganon vs. falco/sheik bad.

 

[talkingbeatles]

so is metaknight something that a good Ganon main countepicks against?

I was thinking: Go ganon first round, if it's a loss, go with your high tier secondary. But idk if the matchup is: low tier vs. God tier bad, or


Ganon vs. falco/sheik bad.

Maybe. I mean, how many MKs are going to have any serious experience against even a decent Ganon?
If you're good, you should pose as quite a thorn in the first round.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Well, MKs never or rarely fight Ganon, so you might be able to get him pretty low or win the first round, but then he'll probably get used to you or play ghey.

also

EPIC Wario pic, very cool find.

 

[PK-ow!]

so is metaknight something that a good Ganon main countepicks against?

I was thinking: Go ganon first round, if it's a loss, go with your high tier secondary. But idk if the matchup is: low tier vs. God tier bad, or Ganon vs. falco/sheik bad.

It's merely "bad".

Guys, we use Ganondorf. If you won't use Ganon against the best, who will you use him against?

Main Ganondorf.
Eat decent MKs for breakfast.

I have found strength in Advice Dog's words.

EDIT:
<removed> Actually, forgot which thread this was; don't want to put this here & get in the way.

Well, MKs never or rarely fight Ganon, so you might be able to get him pretty low or win the first round, but then he'll probably get used to you or play ghey.

No. Absolutely not. Come on guys, this is a pretty tenuous kind of thing in the general case, which yet I can give its due weight, but this is MK. If you admit his user something like the same skill you have, inexperience isn't gonna make a difference to that sword.


Pimp Wario pic.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

i prefer to play ganon vs mk and alot of times mk goes straight toward me and i always hit him w/an partly charged up smash. it also makes it easier against him because of all the side b combos on him, a grab combo i found, and because he's so light. the only mk i really have trouble against is mero's, he three stocked me before

 

[Yanoss1313]

but hey, it's metaknight

 

[MoblinMan]

I'm actually pretty good at timing my recovery to go between the Dair spam.

First, I get knocked off, right? Then I save my second jump, and up B into a dair on purpose. (DI'ing it up) Repeat maybe once if necessary, although that's really risky. At this point most MK's don't remember you have a second jump, and you can stall your recovery to mess up the timing and sweet spot the ledge once in a while.

Other than that I get screwed though. Haven't faced a MK that has planked yet, but there's one strategy that nearly always gets me:

The up B > Glide attack >up B > glide attack > up B etc. HTF do you beat that...?

 

[:034:]

The up B > Glide attack >up B > glide attack > up B etc. HTF do you beat that...?

Wait until he comes near you and attempts to attack you, shield it AND the following attack, then escape and/or retaliate. A lot of MK's will attack after the glide attack because they think you'll drop your shield.

Of course, once they start getting the hang of it, they'll glide attack -> grab. ;D

 

[Z1GMA]

I was thinking...
Maybe a section like "When to land the Gerudo" ? (Depending on what the opposing character is doing)

It could really help against characters that are hard to get with the Gerudo.
MK & Kirby comes to mind.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

about the up glide thing, if the mk uses the glide attack too early its possible to grab him out of the air after you defend against the gaurd attack, either that or the mks i face a lot just dont attack after the glide attack. and its probable best to use side b when they hit the ground after a air attack because they're vurnerable there and sometimes they jump again and during the jump they're also vurnerable. it's also easier to hit side b after using dtilt

 

[Z1GMA]

Yes, along with Dtilt, jab, and iDA.

+ Murderquake lol

 

[Z1GMA]

Quote: Mario's Fireballs

DA overrides Fireballs. Woop. Just bash straight through the spamming. Jab can stop the balls as well, but it cancels your own animation.

When jabbing his Fireballs, does that refresh your other moves?

 

[:034:]

When jabbing his Fireballs, does that refresh your other moves?

Good question, but it comes down to "Do moves that clash refresh your moves?", which is likely.

 

[Z1GMA]

Good question, but it comes down to "Do moves that clash refresh your moves?", which is likely.

Well, do they?
If so, do Mario refresh his moves too, when we jab his fireballs? or? maybe not.

I could test it but I'm too lazy for the moment. Anyone?

 

[:034:]

Well, do they?
If so, do Mario refresh his moves too, when we jab his fireballs? or? maybe not.

I could test it but I'm too lazy for the moment. Anyone?

I think they do. I'm not sure.

 

[PK-ow!]

Hooooooky, so do we have a number?
. . . probably not. It's like... "hard"? I don't see an impetus to come up with anything specific.


bump


Also, I want to make a thread that talks about stage counterpicking. Or something like that, because I suck at it. It should either be its own thread or go in here.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Hooooooky, so do we have a number?
. . . probably not. It's like... "hard"? I don't see an impetus to come up with anything specific.


bump


Also, I want to make a thread that talks about stage counterpicking. Or something like that, because I suck at it. It should either be its own thread or go in here.

I'm sticking with my 80-20, maybe edging into 85-15.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Um...
I vote 80-20.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Can't say I agree with any higher than 30-70 at best probably more 35-65. Metaknight is far from Dorf's greatest threat since we actually have solid early kills and ways of connecting with him meaning he still needs to play a solid defensive game. I mean pretty much everything nasty Metaknight does to Ganondorf is the same as Marth except we can't actually connect properly with Marth half the time and Marth has a better spacing game.

80-20 is more reserved for Marth/Samus/Pit/Falco and any higher has to be Ice Climber/Shiek levels of disgusting.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Meta KNight isn't Ganon's worst threat. We actually know solid techs we can utilize against him. Nevertheless, it's an uphill battle.

Still, I'd say it's 25:75 at worst, and 35:65 at best.

 

[@HomE]

70/30 MK can lick Ganon's ...... boots