"The Triforce of Knowledge" Ganon's Match-Up Guide: Character Review, Kirby.

[adumbrodeus]

Just be glad he sucks at KOs and recovery. =/

I don't think I can give an accurate matchup ratio...the matchup seems to vary greatly depending on player experience in this specific matchup.

Bolding added

Bad is probably exaggeration, but it's only average at best. It's very predictable and his Up-B is not very good.

Wrong Link, his recovery is really good, he's very floaty (giving him a ton of options), got the tether, good aerials, got viable projectiles for mid-recovery, and he's got an up-b with a ton of range, and a decent hitbox and priority. And he's got bomb-jumping if he ever needs it.


Nah, Toon Link gets off well in the recovery department.


Think Marth and Lucario when you're talking about mediocre recoveries, and Link when you're dealing with bad recoveries.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Just putting my thoughts in...
This match-up is 65-35 TL.

Zair and projectile spam>everything Ganon can throw at us.

If you want a chance in this match-up, perfect power shield Zair and projectiles.
This match is wi-fi, but it is still a good example of what you need to do
Match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-1M0ggQzdM
Match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufa3ZvfgAyc

 

[A2ZOMG]

Think Marth and Lucario when you're talking about mediocre recoveries, and Link when you're dealing with bad recoveries.

Marth IMO has better recovery than Toon Link. Marth actually has a really really good Up-B for recovery in the hands of a smart player and he's MUCH better at the edge which is a big part of getting back on the stage. Not to mention better aerials that only someone like Metaknight or DDD has practical range over in most situations.

You can hit Toon Link before he gets to tether since it doesn't have all that much range, although his tether I guess will save him from stuff if he DIs Metaknight's D-smash downwards. Bomb jumping won't stop him from getting edgehogged unless he's at like 200% or something which he's simply not surviving to unless he's playing against someone like Samus or Sonic. You can HIT through his projectiles if you know what you're doing furthermore.

 

[_clinton]

Just putting my thoughts in...
This match-up is 65-35 TL.

Zair and projectile spam>everything Ganon can throw at us.

If you want a chance in this match-up, perfect power shield Zair and projectiles.
This match is wi-fi, but it is still a good example of what you need to do
Match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-1M0ggQzdM
Match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufa3ZvfgAyc

God I'm glad I play as more mobile characters...I wonder why the Ganon approached when he had the lead?

 

[PK-ow!]

Marth IMO has better recovery than Toon Link. Marth actually has a really really good Up-B for recovery in the hands of a smart player and he's MUCH better at the edge which is a big part of getting back on the stage.

I was recently confronted on that very issue and as a matter of fact Marth sucks at the ledge. He is one of the worst there. Basically taking this from the Marth boards, but "Every option he has can be read and punished - and he doesn't have a lot of them."

He also has RCO lag on the Dolphin Slash. Which is worse than ours.

If you disagree, take it up where I left off in the Marth ledge help thread.

*Every* character with a projectile is halfway decent at the ledge. Toon Link has that, tether stalling, nair, and walljump.

Now since we're talking recovery, I don't know how you can miss that Marth has only one option, while TL has at least two. Plus, TL's pure movement abilities are more versatile.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Marth IMO has better recovery than Toon Link. Marth actually has a really really good Up-B for recovery in the hands of a smart player and he's MUCH better at the edge which is a big part of getting back on the stage. Not to mention better aerials that only someone like Metaknight or DDD has practical range over in most situations.

You can hit Toon Link before he gets to tether since it doesn't have all that much range, although his tether I guess will save him from stuff if he DIs Metaknight's D-smash downwards. Bomb jumping won't stop him from getting edgehogged unless he's at like 200% or something which he's simply not surviving to unless he's playing against someone like Samus or Sonic. You can HIT through his projectiles if you know what you're doing furthermore.

No, it's not, it has a lot fewer places that it can sweet-spot, and he can't get the distance overall. That, and his only move to increase his horizontal distance is beyond vulnerable. It's got a good hitbox, but that's pretty much it when it comes to advantages.


With Toon Link it's pretty much impossible to get him to a point where he can't recover, so you have to send him into the blast zone, heck it's rare that he'll even need to up-b period because he's got a really long double jump and he's floaty. Marth, that's not the case, once he's expended his double-jump, if you push him far enough out of the way, he's done.


Marth, much better when he's on the edge? (you said "at the edge", I'll assume that it means this because fighting when your opponent is on the ledge and you're not doesn't have anything to do with recovery)

That's a laugh, that's actually one of Marth's greatest weaknesses because his moves are easy to counter on reaction which allows you to send him back to the exact same situation.

Marth's a lot easier to edgehog because the hitbox is very short, T-link on the other hand, has a very long hitbox.

And no, the tether isn't a general use thing, but it's great in specific circumstances, like low angle knockback attacks where he can often completely negate momentum that would take him off, and just as a generalized mix-up.

And since bomb-jumping gives T-link another chance to get at the edge with up-b, again the long hitbox makes him hard to ledge-hog, that makes it better at dealing with ledge-hogging.

And you know what, people can hit through Marth's aerials too, the point is that it forces them into a set of predetermined responses, which makes edgeguarding games a lot easier to deal with.


In general he's got a ton more options and mix-ups then Marth when off-stage, Marth is mediocre at best whereas Toon Link is quite good.



Take this from a Marth main/Toon Link secondary, Toon Link's got a good recovery, Marth's got a mediocre one.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

This matchup ALMOST might even be 55:45 in Ganons favour because we can flame choke out of anything to do with spin dash.

(I know that I'm quoting a very old post, but I can't help but talk when I see false information.)

That doesn't automatically mean that Ganon has an advantage. Spin dash has a lot better properties than Flame choke. That'd be just like saying, Ganon's FTilt is better than Snake's UTilt because of the priority difference.

 

[A2ZOMG]

No, it's not, it has a lot fewer places that it can sweet-spot, and he can't get the distance overall. That, and his only move to increase his horizontal distance is beyond vulnerable. It's got a good hitbox, but that's pretty much it when it comes to advantages.

Marth usually gets about the same distance if he knows DI...like seriously. He's more agile in the air as I recall.

With Toon Link it's pretty much impossible to get him to a point where he can't recover, so you have to send him into the blast zone, heck it's rare that he'll even need to up-b period because he's got a really long double jump and he's floaty. Marth, that's not the case, once he's expended his double-jump, if you push him far enough out of the way, he's done.

If you hit ANYONE out of their doublejump, their recovery is screwed unless their name is G&W, Pikachu, Samus...or something like that. Toon Link's recovery isn't one that can easily secure a comeback if you predict his double jump either. Not even a bomb jump will save his recovery if the person isn't stupid about edgehogging.

Marth, much better when he's on the edge? (you said "at the edge", I'll assume that it means this because fighting when your opponent is on the ledge and you're not doesn't have anything to do with recovery)

That's a laugh, that's actually one of Marth's greatest weaknesses because his moves are easy to counter on reaction which allows you to send him back to the exact same situation.

If you try to punish Marth for edgecamping and he knows what he's doing, you're probably going to get killed in the process. Toon Link doesn't have this same luxury and doesn't have any safer attacks to promote camping on the edge. Really, are you going to deny that Marth's Up-B is way better for edgecamping than TL's? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has been pissed off by Marth's Up-B planking.

Marth's a lot easier to edgehog because the hitbox is very short, T-link on the other hand, has a very long hitbox.

lol really? If you know the timing, Toon Link's Up-B is much easier to predict and edgehog in the end due to being slower. His Up-B is probably has similar hitbox duration and speed to like Ganon's (although it goes higher).

And since bomb-jumping gives T-link another chance to get at the edge with up-b, again the long hitbox makes him hard to ledge-hog, that makes it better at dealing with ledge-hogging.

I dunno who you're playing, but edgehogging Toon Link's Up-B is not hard to do. His Bomb jump really just prolongs his death unless he was at a damage where it sends him far enough to be able to land on the stage.

And you know what, people can hit through Marth's aerials too, the point is that it forces them into a set of predetermined responses, which makes edgeguarding games a lot easier to deal with.

It's a guessing game, but pretty much the point is there are fewer characters that can reliably and safely edgeguard Marth directly as opposed to characters that can edgeguard Toon Link. If Marth has really good timing, not many characters actually have aerials that outrange him. The same doesn't work as well for Toon Link. Marth can also deal with lingering hitboxes and projectiles better via counter.

In general he's got a ton more options and mix-ups then Marth when off-stage, Marth is mediocre at best whereas Toon Link is quite good.

Marth might not have as many options, but the ones he does have, if used intelligently, are more solid and consistent overall especially when you factor players that DI well.

At least I honestly find Marth a lot harder to edgeguard in my experience. =/

 

[PK-ow!]

Marth usually gets about the same distance if he knows DI...like seriously. He's more agile in the air as I recall.

Agile in the air? You mean like he falls faster? <.<

If you hit ANYONE out of their doublejump, their recovery is screwed unless their name is G&W, Pikachu, Samus...or something like that. Toon Link's recovery isn't one that can easily secure a comeback if you predict his double jump either.

I've never seen TL hit out of his double jump, though. It climbs so high so fast, and by the floatiness he doesn't need to get predictable with using it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ok, been talking to Veit and I see where you're coming from on the recovery, the anti- Tlink game has evolved to the point where certain specifics of his recovery are enough of a liability where it's only a slight advantage in general, and it's because of situational considerations, otherwise it's even.


On the other hand, Tlink's ledge abilities are a LOT better.


I'll address a few things, but I'll really point you to Veit's post on this, he knows it better then I do.


If you want more discussion on this, you can invite him over or something.

Marth usually gets about the same distance if he knows DI...like seriously. He's more agile in the air as I recall.

Yes, but Tlink gets more distance because he's floatier, it just takes him longer.

If you hit ANYONE out of their doublejump, their recovery is screwed unless their name is G&W, Pikachu, Samus...or something like that. Toon Link's recovery isn't one that can easily secure a comeback if you predict his double jump either. Not even a bomb jump will save his recovery if the person isn't stupid about edgehogging.

It gets him a lot more horizantal distance (because it's controlable) so hitting him out of double jump won't kill until a lot later.

If you try to punish Marth for edgecamping and he knows what he's doing, you're probably going to get killed in the process. Toon Link doesn't have this same luxury and doesn't have any safer attacks to promote camping on the edge. Really, are you going to deny that Marth's Up-B is way better for edgecamping than TL's? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has been pissed off by Marth's Up-B planking.

Ledge-hog, Marth enters free-fall state, have fun punishing!


That's exactly what prevents Marth from planking well, with it understood that if he starts planking he gets that, his options return to what they were before.

It's a guessing game, but pretty much the point is there are fewer characters that can reliably and safely edgeguard Marth directly as opposed to characters that can edgeguard Toon Link. If Marth has really good timing, not many characters actually have aerials that outrange him. The same doesn't work as well for Toon Link. Marth can also deal with lingering hitboxes and projectiles better via counter.

Tlink has good aerials too, not AS good in general, but his bair is amazing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

On the other hand, Tlink's ledge abilities are a LOT better.

I simply don't believe this. Toon Link can't hit anti-plankers with a ledgedrop aerial except maybe on stages like PS1, Halberd, or Delphino with a U-air. Marth can always with F-airs. That's pretty significant in terms of speed difference. If you mess up near the edge, Marth can punish you faster. Toon Link has projectiles, but pretty slow ones.

Marth can really mix up his edgecamp game really well with his instant Up-B stall, simple adjustments to when he sweetspots the edge with Up-B, etc, and the tactics that do exist for countering that reliably are few and character specific.

Ledge-hog, Marth enters free-fall state, have fun punishing!

That's exactly what prevents Marth from planking well, with it understood that if he starts planking he gets that, his options return to what they were before.

Don't get stagespiked? Easier said that done in a game of autosweetspotting. This isn't Melee.

Yes, the risk has great reward, but the problem is it's a pretty big risk that usually doesn't have a surefire answer to mixups.

For on-ledge games, TL is probably better. He doesn't suffer the "Triple Jump Glitch" from his Up+B that forces him to remedy it through a Nair or whatever.

He's floatier and has projectiles (notably bombs) to stall out the opponent. His floatiness and walljump ability allow him to stall a little better than Marth as he can apply pressure at mid-range, and he has his aerials, which can usually do two of from one ledgehop onstage.

The Recovery CarryOver Lag really doesn't matter that much as long as you can think around an opponent who wants to shield. Regardless who you are, if your opponent shields you when you attack at the ledge, you're almost always going to get punished unless you were able to do the attack from a ledgedrop.

For actually edgestalling, Marth is better, due to his Up-B being fast enough to be difficult to predict, and due to being able to kill his opponent if he predicts them or if they mess up while he's stalling. Toon Link is rarely ever able to kill his opponent for messing up at the edge, and while he can stagespike with the last hit of Up-B, this is also potentially easier to edgetech due to its predictability (and seriously, people should start edgeteching Ganon and Falcon's Up-B consistently. I don't think it's hard especially if you don't suck at teching something like G&W's D-throw).

 

[adumbrodeus]

I simply don't believe this. Toon Link can't hit anti-plankers with a ledgedrop aerial except maybe on stages like PS1, Halberd, or Delphino with a U-air. Marth can always with F-airs. That's pretty significant in terms of speed difference. If you mess up near the edge, Marth can punish you faster. Toon Link has projectiles, but pretty slow ones.

Marth can really mix up his edgecamp game really well with his instant Up-B stall, simple adjustments to when he sweetspots the edge with Up-B, etc, and the tactics that do exist for countering that reliably are few and character specific.

Don't get stagespiked? Easier said that done in a game of autosweetspotting. This isn't Melee.

Yes, the risk has great reward, but the problem is it's a pretty big risk that usually doesn't have a surefire answer to mixups.

The Recovery CarryOver Lag really doesn't matter that much as long as you can think around an opponent who wants to shield. Regardless who you are, if your opponent shields you when you attack at the ledge, you're almost always going to get punished unless you were able to do the attack from a ledgedrop.

For actually edgestalling, Marth is better, due to his Up-B being fast enough to be difficult to predict, and due to being able to kill his opponent if he predicts them or if they mess up while he's stalling. Toon Link is rarely ever able to kill his opponent for messing up at the edge, and while he can stagespike with the last hit of Up-B, this is also potentially easier to edgetech due to its predictability (and seriously, people should start edgeteching Ganon and Falcon's Up-B consistently. I don't think it's hard especially if you don't suck at teching something like G&W's D-throw).

You don't know Marth very well do you.

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here, the reason why Marth's up-b stall is vulnerable is that you never get a hitbox. If done perfectly he snaps on frame 5 of dolphin slash (the frame when the hitbox would come out) preventing him from ever having a hitbox.

So yes, he can up-b stall, but it's a very precise and exacting pattern, and it's very vulnerable to ledgehogging. With no actual hitbox, it's easy to ledgehog, so it just buys him a little time. And the opponent has no penalty for messing up.

This is actually the exact reason why I said in the planking thread that he cannot plank well.


Then that goes back to his two viable options, ledgehop nair, and ledgejump, then former is predictable and option punishable, and the latter creates a very bad position for Marth.

Fair is punishable if it hits shield (spacing makes it safe), nair is punishable if it hits shield, and realistically nobody should make a mistake against Marth on the ledge, his options are too weak and predictable. The one possibility is a mess up against the up-b stall, and Marth risks a whole lot more when he does it due to the massive recovery time if he gets ledge-hogged.

We're talking Ike-Fsmash time remember?


No, Marth's ledge-game is pathetic. With a different character his up-b stall would probably be amazing, but with marth it's pretty much useless.

 

[VietGeek]

Okay it seems we've come to an understanding that both characters have mediocre recoveries anyway. That's good. ^_^

As for getting back on stage from the ledge, I'll be honest TL is not spectacular on the ledge at all. However, he does have a lot more option, aside from ledgehop/walljump aerials and plain projectiles along with the standard ledge options, TL lacks the RCO, has ledgejump buffer bomb drop on the stage or at any time during his ascent, as well as ledgehop or ledgejump airdodge ibomb (airdodge and bomb drop at the same time).

He has more options, but he still have trouble on the ledge.

Marth on the other hand...not that amazing.

The DS stall is really not that deadly if you're edgeguarding. All Marth is doing is giving himself RCO if he doesn't already, and it can be easily countered by a ledgehug, which you would then punish Marth all you want due to his poor aerial DI in free fall and the horrendous lag afterward anyway.

The thing is, RCO does horribly limit his options. It makes his best options a lot more predictable as you know Marth has to do an aerial to get rid of such terribly lag time, in which case he's dedicating himself to move commitment lag, which subtle or not, anything that makes a character have to react predictably is NOT good.

Marth's ground get-up options are also pretty bad, all-around his two best options put him in predictable situations, with ledgejump being the best out of all his options. Also any airdodge attempts are both screwed by RCO and the fact that his airdodge is worst (?) in the game.

On the subject of planking, Marth is putting himself in a bad position when planking. Basically any screw up on his side will probably cause him more damage than him dishing out. TL has stalling tactics to try to bide time, I wouldn't say he has superior planking tools for the sake of planking however.

I feel as if I typed some poorly written stuff. I'll check back and see if anything needs to be clarified.

Basically - I feel both of them fail in recovery (not as bad as some but I wouldn't exactly pat their backs for their effort), TL has more options with less risk attached to try to make it back on stage over Marth.

So TL is better at Marth in the on-ledge category. Although that's not saying much seeing as Marth is one of the few characters with terrible ledge options anyway, which I find funny as he's currently S tier in a game where people once regarded: "Recovery is more important in this game than in the last ones."

 

[A2ZOMG]

****** really hard on the ground seems to matter more than recovery IMO. Just because you can't shield in the air haha. This is also why Snake is considered S.

Okay like seriously, if this game was more about recovery, Sonic, Samus, and Jiggs would be much higher too.

 

[VietGeek]

Snake has other factors to aid him in his recovery. Actually his recovery isn't exactly bad either, it's flexible enough to get **** done and considering his weight and the flawed game mechanics that "enhance DI," he can recover most of the time, while Marth has a much more notable weakness in his recovery.

Snake also ***** in the safest way too, while Marth has to put himself in some risk. Although they do **** onstage though. It's just that if you **** onstage and have a lol recovery, you're set for life in this game (MK).

I get what you're saying though, but having a good recovery still seems to mean a lot more in this iteration compared to previous installments.

 

[PK-ow!]

Are we even talking about Ganondorf still?

I value the dialogue but this was supposed to be a TL : Ganon matchup discussion. Unless I've gone crazy.

 

[PhantomX]

Is there really a point to discussing MK v Ganon? If you see anyone pick MK you shouldn't even consider picking Ganondorf

 

[Teronist09]

Is there really a point to discussing MK v Ganon? If you see anyone pick MK you shouldn't even consider picking Ganondorf

That's nonsense, Ganon is a perfectly good MK cp. And besides, some people like going all Ganon.

I've only fought like 2 MK's so I don't really have anything of use to say that isn't obvious about the matchup.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Is there really a point to discussing MK v Ganon? If you see anyone pick MK you shouldn't even consider picking Ganondorf

That's probably how you feel. Metaknight is one of Ganon's easier match-ups. I probably can't explain properly but, I'll give it a try.

We have all our flame choke combos on him (Dtilt, Ftilt, Jab, Dash Attack). Dash attack could be DIed out of though. We also have Flame choke > DAir if Metaknight attacks right after. We could kill him in ridiculous ways out of flame choke. FTilt out of it near the edge, kills him around 75-80%+. Flame choke to dash attack, if the MK doesn't DI, could kill him at 95%+. In Battlefield, flame choking under a platform makes Metaknight land on the platform, follow it by a SweetSpot UAir, it should kill him around 70%+. A SH DAIr could avoid his DSmash. It's extremely easy to land FSmash on him since he's offensive 90% of the time. Talking about Metaknight offensiveness, Ganon strives for character who are offensive, it's easier to bait and trap that way. Metaknight really can't do anything about repeated DTIlts after Flame choke. Er.. what else.. Ganon has ways to deal with the Mach Torando... Dsmash, a move that never kills, may actually kill Metaknight at higher percentages. That's about it.

There you go, my bad summary of the Ganon and Metaknight match-up.

 

[PhantomX]

Notice how 2/3 of the things you wrote involve Flame Choke, which they can easily interrupt with their three frame ftilt on reaction.

It's also VERY easy for them to gimp us, AND, if smart MKs start getting punished for approaching, they'll do some damage and force you to approach instead.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Notice how 2/3 of the things you wrote involve Flame Choke, which they can easily interrupt with their three frame ftilt.

To think you'd know that Flame Choke isn't a approach move by now, after being in the Ganon boards for this long.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That's probably how you feel. Metaknight is one of Ganon's easier match-ups. I probably can't explain properly but, I'll give it a try.

We have all our flame choke combos on him (Dtilt, Ftilt, Jab, Dash Attack). Dash attack could be DIed out of though. We also have Flame choke > DAir if Metaknight attacks right after. We could kill him in ridiculous ways out of flame choke. FTilt out of it near the edge, kills him around 75-80%+. Flame choke to dash attack, if the MK doesn't DI, could kill him at 95%+. In Battlefield, flame choking under a platform makes Metaknight land on the platform, follow it by a SweetSpot UAir, it should kill him around 70%+. A SH DAIr could avoid his DSmash. It's extremely easy to land FSmash on him since he's offensive 90% of the time. Talking about Metaknight offensiveness, Ganon strives for character who are offensive, it's easier to bait and trap that way. Metaknight really can't do anything about repeated DTIlts after Flame choke. Er.. what else.. Ganon has ways to deal with the Mach Torando... Dsmash, a move that never kills, may actually kill Metaknight at higher percentages. That's about it.

There you go, my bad summary of the Ganon and Metaknight match-up.

All of which sort of goes down the toilet if he decides to use his safe on block moves right outside your range.


In this match-up, Mk's best option is probably to pull a marth and go max melee range with some poking to force Ganon to do what he does worst, approach, and then it becomes exactly like the Marth match-up, except with better recovery and gimping.

 

[PhantomX]

All of which sort of goes down the toilet if he decides to use his safe on block moves right outside your range.


In this match-up, Mk's best option is probably to pull a marth and go max melee range with some poking to force Ganon to do what he does worst, approach, and then it becomes exactly like the Marth match-up, except with better recovery and gimping.

See, this guy gets it.

 

[Z1GMA]

MK is FAR from one of our hardest match-ups...
But he's defenitly one of our bad match-ups.

 

[ShinGaruda]

MK is tough. When in doubt, Ganoncide. Seriously. Very useful post amirite

 

[Squirrely]

The best part about mk is I can usually hit him with anything out of a choke. I get most my kills with a choke -> ftilt.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Kosk likes this matchup for some reason. And he's going to MM M2K at Genesis for realz.

He says you can win if you can bait MK a lot.

 

[PhantomX]

That's relying on player error, and has nothing to do with the matchup, lol.

 

[TP]

Kosk likes this matchup for some reason. And he's going to MM M2K at Genesis for realz.

He says you can win if you can bait MK a lot.

I had a lovely conversation with Kosk about how to beat M2K. None of it applies here. We were making assumptions like "After M2K gets choked once, he'll never let it happen again, so make sure you get a kill with that one choke." Worthless advice against a normal MK.

Here's the interesting thing: the theoretical matchup and the actual matchup are completely different. In theory, both players know the matchup, so there won't be much choking and the MK won't try to block a ganoncide with a Fair. However, in reality, no MK ever knows that Fair can't beat an Aerudo. I do, since I use both characters, and I know to jump and Dair the Ganon if he tries it. I feel like it would be weird to give any number for this matchup, since we are forced to play based on an assumption that the matchup number can't reflect, the assumption that the MK knows nothing of Ganon.

EDIT: I can't believe PhantomX posted that while I was typing. Crazy coincidence.

 

[Koskinator]

Imo, the best way to beat MK is to make him approach. Our dtilt outranges basically everything he has. Ftilt ***** nado. ***** IT. We can kill him at stupid low percents too. You just have to play like, smarter than ever. Not as smart as you have to play against Peach tho.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Imo, the best way to beat MK is to make him approach. Our dtilt outranges basically everything he has. Ftilt ***** nado. ***** IT. We can kill him at stupid low percents too. You just have to play like, smarter than ever. Not as smart as you have to play against Peach tho.

Doesn't matter, same issue as with marth, he can punish it even when spaced perfectly.

Yes, we can do that to some characters, which drastically improves the match-up (*cough cough* falcon), but not MK, since it's not safe, it's not different from approaching.


A smart MK will never approach Ganondorf.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Imo, the best way to beat MK is to make him approach. Our dtilt outranges basically everything he has. Ftilt ***** nado. ***** IT. We can kill him at stupid low percents too. You just have to play like, smarter than ever. Not as smart as you have to play against Peach tho.

*Edited...*

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Imo, the best way to beat MK is to make him approach. Our dtilt outranges basically everything he has.

Now if only it could actually connect with any of his moves instead of being outprioritized :/

On the other hand I do love Aerudo in this matchup for that particular reason.

 

[Clai]

I had a lovely conversation with Kosk about how to beat M2K. None of it applies here. We were making assumptions like "After M2K gets choked once, he'll never let it happen again, so make sure you get a kill with that one choke." Worthless advice against a normal MK.

M2K sometimes goes to the Drexel biweeklies I go to, but I only got to play him for about a minute or so. Even then, he hit me off the stage and I immediately Ganoncided him. He then paused the game and johned about how Ganondorf shows no regard for Metaknight's sword when he's trying to edgegaurd me. I just laughed at him. Seriously, his playstyle just screams to get Ganoncided. I can't wait to face him in one of our tournaments so I can mess with his head.

I don't use Ganon against MK, so I have nothing to contribute...

 

[TP]

M2K sometimes goes to the Drexel biweeklies I go to, but I only got to play him for about a minute or so. Even then, he hit me off the stage and I immediately Ganoncided him. He then paused the game and johned about how Ganondorf shows no regard for Metaknight's sword when he's trying to edgegaurd me. I just laughed at him. Seriously, his playstyle just screams to get Ganoncided. I can't wait to face him in one of our tournaments so I can mess with his head.

I don't use Ganon against MK, so I have nothing to contribute...

Don't play M2K!!! Do you WANT Kosk to lose to him in their MM at Genesis? We were discussing using Ganoncide because M2K would not know Fair can't beat it. Way to ruin everything, Clai.

 

[Koskinator]

Yes, no one is to play against M2K using Ganondorf until me. He needs as little Ganon experience as possible.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Maybe we should drop the subject and keep it quiet then?

 

[:034:]

M2K's big weakness is characters he knows nothing about (which is everyone outside of Top/High)... It's pretty ironic.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yes, no one is to play against M2K using Ganondorf until me. He needs as little Ganon experience as possible.

Ok, if you lose, then you can blame it on Inui.

Not like I know whether or not he's played M2K in friendlies, but I mean...it's likely enough, and we all know his favorite Nintendo character is Ganondorf...and that he also thinks Ganon is the least competitive thing in existence in Brawl.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Ok, if you lose, then you can blame it on Inui.

Not like I know whether or not he's played M2K in friendlies, but I mean...it's likely enough, and we all know his favorite Nintendo character is Ganondorf...and that he also thinks Ganon is the least competitive thing in existence in Brawl.

Captain Falcon?