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the TKD thread

fox67890

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Man, I got to attend some tournies sometime soon. :\
Glad you had fun though~
___________________________________________


"Blocked buffered SH fair: Shieldgrab or unblock, dash attack (above 40%) or unblock, dash usmash"
Wait...do we have to buffer this, or is there enough time for inputs without buffering?

Also, I thought about using the front part of utilt more when possible to land. If one uses it when their opponent is in mid percents (or even somewhat high percents), it just sets up for so much stuff. .-.
Like I was really surprised. It apparently true combos into SH Uair and even Dair according to training mode. Only problem is landing the front part of utilt I suppose.
 

crifer

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Man, I got to attend some tournies sometime soon. :\
Glad you had fun though~
___________________________________________


"Blocked buffered SH fair: Shieldgrab or unblock, dash attack (above 40%) or unblock, dash usmash"
Wait...do we have to buffer this, or is there enough time for inputs without buffering?

Also, I thought about using the front part of utilt more when possible to land. If one uses it when their opponent is in mid percents (or even somewhat high percents), it just sets up for so much stuff. .-.
Like I was really surprised. It apparently true combos into SH Uair and even Dair according to training mode. Only problem is landing the front part of utilt I suppose.
stop using training mode and it´s "combo" meter to make assumptions which moves combo... training mode is dumb.
 

fox67890

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I see your point. I only mentioned it to describe how effective it could be though.
 

TKD

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Training mode doesn't consider you can hitstun cancel with an airdodge.
By BSHfair I mean the opponent's move. MK buffering his SHfair gives it a lot of cool-down (with a minimum of 13 frames). If it's delayed, the cool-down is dramatically lower (with a minimum of 8 frames). Only a TAS can do the minimum, unless your opponent is a melee-style control freak (I used to be one).
 

M@v

Subarashii!
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go to SKTAR TKD!! I will buy your plane ticket :o)
This This This This

The best players of both my characters? Yes Plz :3.

Also Larry this will likely wind up just being a donation, but want to money match falco vs fox at sktar?
 

TKD

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Just got back to TJ after doing drugs and playing children's videogames with the socal buddies...yeahhh.

go to SKTAR TKD!! I will buy your plane ticket :o)
I can't say no to that one. Whether you're serious though, I don't know!
 

knuckles213

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TKD, how do you deal with Lucario? I win against trela on last sat and felt like I could win, but didn't know how to deal with him and his combos (Utilt and Fair especially), CG, set-up frame traps, and pivot grabs.
 

M@v

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Kill him early. It kinda is that easy. Just have to play smart, hit the openings, and abuse your biggest advantage: Killing him before he gets supercharged.
 

knuckles213

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lucario in general is pretty free :)
Kill him early. It kinda is that easy. Just have to play smart, hit the openings, and abuse your biggest advantage: Killing him before he gets supercharged.
Lucario is pretty free.
Camp him hard, and kill him early. kill him before his aura gets charged.
you just never played trela then :urg:, well my match with him will be up soon so I'll need a criqitue
 

M@v

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Kinda late, but just like the ROB mu, if you can learn when the lucario likes to shoot aura spheres, you can reflect it right in his face. I probably average one kill on lucario every set by reflecting a full charge aura sphere back in his face close to point blank range.
 

TKD

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Fox has a bigger grab range than Lucario. He walks and dashes much faster. He recovers better. He's better at juggling. Lucario's moves are quite punishable and he does average damage for single hits. Fox can even camp Lucario, unlike the match-up against most characters in the game. If you don't want to face his cross-ups or short hop approaches, you can simply roll into him. He doesn't have the speed to catch up with that after landing.

Lucario's main weakness is being down a stock. He has to take more damage before he's even a threat, and once he's a threat he can take even more damage. I wouldn't try to strictly kill him early though. That's being lazy and gives him a chance for a comeback.

Fox has almost everything in his favor. It's a mismatch.

Trela is one of the strongest players in SSBB though. There's no way he's "free" just because of playing a mid-class character.
 

C.R.Z

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TKD if you get the chance at this weekends tourney can you get some matches saved/recorded with Mr.R ? id like to see how you play against him.
 

M@v

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Mk definitely is the was to go vs marth. I practice the Marth mu in case I get cp'd, but its so annoying :/

Outranges pretty much every move we have, and whenever fox can get in on him, he can upb out of 80% of fox's stuff. Really hard to play aggressive offstage against him too because of his range, and his upb when hes recovering.
 

fox67890

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Hey TKD, quick question from me. I forgot to ask it a long time ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=L...=mlIKuRbA150&feature=player_detailpage#t=216s

At that time in the video I linked, you showed some impressive (imo) platform maneuverability. That movement looks kinda interesting to me. Could you perhaps explain the basic inputs for the immediate platform drops? Was it just performed normally with well timing, or was it perhaps done another way (buffered maybe? Although I think I remember you once telling me that you weren't sure if there was an input to buffer platform drops)?
 

C.R.Z

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Hey TKD, quick question from me. I forgot to ask it a long time ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=L...=mlIKuRbA150&feature=player_detailpage#t=216s

At that time in the video I linked, you showed some impressive (imo) platform maneuverability. That movement looks kinda interesting to me. Could you perhaps explain the basic inputs for the immediate platform drops? Was it just performed normally with well timing, or was it perhaps done another way (buffered maybe? Although I think I remember you once telling me that you weren't sure if there was an input to buffer platform drops)?
its good you picked up on this, alot of players dont know how to do it. Its quite simple, all you do is take on step and then drop. If you try to drop through a platform straight after you land you wont be able to, you will just crouch.However if you walk, you can immediately drop through. Practice it and implement it. It is quite important, for all characters.
 

fox67890

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its good you picked up on this, alot of players dont know how to do it. Its quite simple, all you do is take on step and then drop. If you try to drop through a platform straight after you land you wont be able to, you will just crouch.However if you walk, you can immediately drop through. Practice it and implement it. It is quite important, for all characters.
Woah. I tried what you said and it worked wonderfully. Suddenly, things make more sense now from previous experiences. I definitely got to try to master this. Thanks man.
 

TKD

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LOL CRZ is a genius. I would've never realized I do that.
@knuckles213: If I tell you everything, it'll be a world of text.

This is how I fight MK now, maybe you can check that out.
http://youtu.be/UCT45lQ7oRo

facing mk
In general, I roll away if he gets behind me, or through him if I can't read him. For landing you either fast-fall air-dodge tomahawk (preferably buffered + learn how to buffer turn-around tomahawk too), land with nair (maybe space it so shieldgrab/nair from block don't work), or drift away (plus air-dodge maybe); any of these preferably with a downb right before. Land into utilt works too but only after they've given up blocking because of your tomahawks. Players are used to, well, every other char in the game more than vs Fox, so they're likely to act as if your downb (probably Fox's best move, definitely his best defensive move) doesn't exist. The rest kind of takes care of itself but I do need to get better at using usmash.

usmashing mk
Some of the ones I know are walkblock into a dtilt and usmash it, block a dsmash and unblock dash usmash, block a landing aerial and usmash from block, dash usmash if he glides through me after an upb, forced airbreak dash usmash (you force an airbreak if you pummel immediately after grabbing him out of the air, although they may also airbreak if you see them struggle like a *******), delayed usmash vs his block (to hit the startup of upb/roll/shieldgrab), spotdodge his dashgrab to guarantee an usmash (it has big cooldown), face away from him, block his dash attack, usmash from block, if he whiffs sh fair too close to you, dash usmash as he's landing back to the ground, turn around and usmash on super prediction vs his roll, and stuff like that. As I write this I can't believe I forgot that weak nair to usmash and dair to usmash exist. With the dair, you can dash up to him, SH dair him AS YOU RISE, and when you fast-fall, the landing hits will combo from the rising ones (WTF!?), and you get your usmash. This is great because it not only works if the dair initially connects, but if they block, it's likely that the falling hits will shieldpoke. There are tons of ways to usmash him but I have to list them all so I use it wisely or on reads and not like a ******* that gives away 50% (which I have to admit I do freely when lazy during friendlies).

banana footstool infinites
By the way, I learned Marth's banana footstool infinite. His is a triple footstool one that goes back and forth to the same spot. He can end it with tipper dsmash or tipper fsmash, his choice. It's great, LOL. But he can only do it in FD and spots like the very center of Battlefield.
I'm pretty sure that Fox's is the easiest banana infinite in the cast. He has single, double, and triple foot-stool whichever you want, and 2 ways of continuing it (face where you want him to go and hop+footstool, or face away from him, toss banana down which sends him into you). Doing Fox's infinite on Smashville though, is one of the most technical feats in the game. It requires you to maneuver around the moving platform by judging which actions to take. At least he CAN do it, unlike everyone else besides probably DDD (I'm sure he's great at it because he also has a 5 frame hop and fast-falls even quicker).

Sorry for wall of text time but it's nearly 5AM right now, the wall of text time of the day when you haven't slept at all.
 

M@v

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Another good one is if you powershield the FRONT hit of mk's dsmash, you can buffer an upsmash and it will hit. The only thing I'm not sure of is if your on the edge of his dsmash range, you may be too far away and would need to dash upsmash. I'm not 100% sure if this would be guaranteed as well. Does anyone know the frame data on a dash upsmash from that distance? Compare it to Falco's fsmash, because he can barely fit it in on mk if he powershields the dsmash as well, and its a slower move than fox's upsmash.
 

fox67890

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About the banana footstool infinite, here's a video of a friend doing a variation of it. I'm aware that every character (I think?) can do it, but I've never seen anyone do it specifically as fox, if that makes any difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRmGZcMo14s

And about the forced airbreak dash upsmash, I got a video of the chain-grab thing you could do with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6P_geZeadI&feature=plcp
Only the first two things work in that video though. The rest don't I think.
 

C.R.Z

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LOL TKD i learnt that from studying YOUR vids about a year or 2 ago. Dam haha

Mav you can get a guaranteed dash usmash if you normal block mks first hit dsmash aswell as TKD mentioned. Abuse it!
 

M@v

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I was pretty sure you could; I just wanted to make sure the frame data agreed with that :)

(like I've been doing it already, but was never sure if it was fully safe ;P)
 

fox67890

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I played Ally in tourney. Would appreciate if you guys would give my set a look. I would've posted it in the video thread but that thread is dead lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myc2tv6YDNk
[COLLAPSE="small critique"]
SOLO WII MOTE? ARE YOU CRAZY?
Nah, I'm just joking :p. It's actually pretty impressive that you could short hop well/SHTL/even move with that style.

  • I think you should develop your reactions to certain moves. Just like the commentator was saying, there were a lot of shuttle loops and some of them were wiffed. You can punish those well with dair since it goes through the part where he swings his sword. It's kinda hard to react to with MK's speed, but if you work on it, I think you can do it
  • I saw a lot of full hops on SV. I don't really think that doing that was a good choice vs Ally's style of using MK. Work on your ground game a bit I suppose. Taking to the air is kinda risky. Walking+Blocking+Reacting from block is important in this MU...I think
  • Use shine stalling offstage to throw off the timing of your opponent trying to hit you out of side B. If you ever feel you're in an uncomforable position to recover, I think it's best to shine stall and react from there. You actually did do this though sometimes. I did see some nice recovery mixups (like illusion to the top platform of BF)
  • When camping, try not to lose stage position to much. Like, don't run all the way to the edge and SHTL against MK, since he's good at zoning, especially in that position.
  • My critiques are terrible. See if you can get someone else to help you. Sorry

[/COLLAPSE]
 

C.R.Z

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Before i forget.

TKD , what were you doing in your match against DEHF man -___________-
You were waaay too aggressive,you were like dash attacking to approach/punish his approach way to many times, i dont understand, what happened? And then you went mk on your own counter pick wtf?

seriously i wish i could have been there to consult you :(
 
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