the TKD thread

[~ Gheb ~]

No, that's not what I meant. I just can't see Marth shutting down Fox ... Marth doesn't shut down *anybody*, it just doesn't make sense for him to be this hard for Fox.

 

[Conviction]

Doesn't the CG only work at 0?

 

[C.J.]

To different extents, different variations of the cg will work up to 13 or14% iirc

 

[knuckles213]

honestly TKD, I think your playing against marths that know you too well. if people know your play style (as fox) your kinda of screw a little. Anyways, getting past Marth's CGs and spacing, he's not that hard (DEFINITELY NOT IMPOSSIBLE), but I feel like you have to outplay him and punish everything he does to an extent.

I wish I could play a lot of top marths, cause then I could add more to this post, If I had to make a list it would look like:

(hard)Pika>ICs>Marth>Shiek(easy)

 

[C.R.Z]

why are people struggling with pika? i just dont get it...

 

[fox67890]

I can't say that I've seen all your matches vs tops Marths as Fox, but from the amount that I've seen, you seem to do well. But if that's how you feel, that I don't know what I can say. You're a pro fox, I'm not, so you would know a lot more than I do.

The main reason I stopped by was to say that I remember you telling me that your can't hop out of reflector vs pikmin toss. You actually can do it vs purple pikmin. I dunno why, but it works only against purples. I'm not sure if it's practicable though. Just thought you might want to know just in case you don't.

 

[M@v]

To expand on marth's cg:

He can do a fthrow or dthrow(or combination of both) chaingrab 4 times from 0%. This also has a guaranteed tipper fsmash or tipper down air followup.

He can do the same thing to falco, although its only 3 grabs from 0%.

I don't play marth as much as I used to nowadays, but I still remember all the bread and butter stuff like that.

 

[Sodrek]

TKD your my idol :D My goal is to surpass your fox! You did very well against Ramin, so i wanted to test my skills in the Fox vs Marth mu. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEODvoCcG-k I barrely lost against ramin x) Could you give me some tipps?

 

[Ayce God]

gheb always hating on marth

 

[//JaZz\\]

Hey wutz up yall! TKD are u still here?

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Hey, finally a sign of life! Anyways, I doubt that he is still here just like everyone else who seem to have... vanished.

 

[Reckless4Christ]

TKD vanishing is the reason there is no sign of life...
I wish this place could have went dead AFTER I became a Fox main...
And I don't mean to disagree with TKD, but Marth/Wario isn't quite that bad.
Sheik, though,I agree.-2 tops.
I lack some MU experience, but IMO Fox's MU's are more like this...
-3 Pika,IC's
-2 Sheik
-1 Wario, Diddy, Snake MAYBE Marth...
0 MK, Olimar, Falco, MAYBE Marth, ZSS, TL, Wolf, Pit, Kirby, Ness,
+1 Lucario, DDD, G&W, Peach, Sonic, Ike, Yoshi, Lucas, CF, PT, Mario, Luigi
+2 ROB, DK, Samus, Puff, Link, Zelda, MAYBE Bowser
+3 Ganondorf, MAYBE Bowser
IMO Bowser is our best matchup, but some people would disagree so I believe he COULD be either.

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Well, I can't say that I know anything too but I feel that Snake could be more of even match up in my opinion due to Fox's laser being able to virtually neutralize Snake's grenade options and I don't feel that Fox will have any real disadvantages and advantages against Snake.

 

[Reckless4Christ]

Yeah, honestly he could be either, Fox has air superiority and , as you mentioned, shuts down Snake's grenade options, can camp, is faster, and can punish a lot of what Snake has...and being killed under 120% isn't something that Snakes are used to.
On the other hand...
We can be punished sort of easily as well, and there's the f-tilt lock, and he can kill faster, and although we rack damage faster, we can SORTA get gimped if we don't play careful.

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

yeah, that's why I would think this match-up will be leaning more toward dead even. That's at least what I see from some top-tier Fox players.
EDIT: Also I agree on Marth match-up. I don't think Marth can shut Fox down completely as some other characters can.

 

[Reckless4Christ]

So, Snake and Marth are even...
I wish the Fox boards could get new matchup discussion threads...someone needs to start those.
I feel like the MU's I listed are invalid, though, because with Snake and Marth being even, that means Fox only loses five, and Foxes normally don't do THAT good.

 

[Reckless4Christ]

Editted post out

 

[//JaZz\\]

Yea I love tha snake MU. Itz my fav and yes itz even

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Get them grenades because it's fun to watch them explode real close to Snake and he gets the damage.

 

[Reckless4Christ]

Seriously! Someone needs to start new matchup discussion threads. They might not get much attention (cuz the boards are dead) , but they'd get some...
And don't let this discussion die...it's the first discussion the boards have had in FOREVER! I want to hang around boards for my MAIN CHARACTER! (I hang around the Ness boards but still...)

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Oh yeah, it is like this board is deserted and while other characters' meta games are advancing (at various pace).... We need someone else to keep this alive!

 

[BlizzyWolf]

Hm not much seems to have happened since I last visited then..
The Marth MU for me is quite irritating, but I love playing against Snake, cause shooting grenades makes me chuckle a bit inside, and if the Snake doesnt recover well enough with his Up B I just bair and he's dead off the side x]
You can pressure a lot with lasers and when snake lands it is easy to pressure that, too..

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Hm not much seems to have happened since I last visited then..
The Marth MU for me is quite irritating, but I love playing against Snake, cause shooting grenades makes me chuckle a bit inside, and if the Snake doesnt recover well enough with his Up B I just bair and he's dead off the side x]
You can pressure a lot with lasers and when snake lands it is easy to pressure that, too..

Now this man shares my feeling!

 

[BlizzyWolf]

Now this man shares my feeling!

Im a girl xD

What I find annoying about vs Marth is getting back on the stage -_-

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Im a girl xD

What I find annoying about vs Marth is getting back on the stage -_-

Oh, lol nvm about that man thing :D And yes, with Marth on stage, it can become quite difficult to getting back on the stage because he basically has options to keep us off stage (fsmash comes up first in my mind,,,) But still! Fox Forever!

 

[BlizzyWolf]

Fox Forever!

Indeed, I will always be a Fox main <3

 

[Reckless4Christ]

Been gone for a day or two...
Nice to see a discussion goin on without me...

 

[BlizzyWolf]

Hehe, dont worry you didnt get left behind :O

 

[Reckless4Christ]

YAY!
Now I'll be serious. I don't find getting back on the stage against Marth that annoying...

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

I've seen some vids of Fox vs. Marth at high level and almost every time Fox gets off stage, Marth seems to be able to keep Fox off stage through fsmash, dtilt and fair at times. I think that kind of forces Fox to either recover high (high enough that upsmash won't be a tipper or even hit you) or take risks (includes risk of being spiked downwards). Also I think this is winnable very much but little difficult due to Marth's range and what he can do to keep Fox off stage.

 

[Reckless4Christ]

What I find annoying is Marth's use of spacing.I try to get the Marth in the air cuz that's where I play best.

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Yeah, it seems that if you play good Marth players, that range of his can really hurt Fox. I don't know about taking Marth in the air but I can see where it can benefit Fox even with my limited knowledge on these things.

 

[//JaZz\\]

Itz great to see yall here my friendz. Marth to me iz so fun to fight

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

And for me, I think Marths will be hard to fight against mainly because of Marth outranging Fox and that chaingrab sequence they have (though thankfully they don't seem to be able to continue past certain percentage unlike ICs). To be honest, I did not face any high level Marths ever (I doubt I will have time for tourney, ever). I guess Marth one can be both fun and frustrating.Anyways, is the population of top Fox mains declining? It seems like there are barely any new top Fox main vids...

 

[Reckless4Christ]

Yeah,TKD quit and now I almost never see anything out of Trevonte.NAKAT isn't JUST a Fox main.That leaves Trump(who I've played in doubles) and Zeton as the best solo Fox's,and they both placed 65th at Apex.
Also about taking Marth in the air it's just a personal thing, I wouldn't encourage anyone else to play that way, it's just my style.

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Hmm, we should take this type of discussion to social thread... Oh and I wasn't disagreeing with anyone, just stating what I read from other Fox players.

 

[//JaZz\\]

Yea I waz there at Apex watching my friend Trump and Zeton play there setz. I've almost made it out on tha main bracket but almost isn't enough. I've won 2 setz in my pool then had to face Kakera and lost but did ok in tha set. After that I've had to face Xzax. He waz a falco I've nvr seen before from hez style. And I love tha falco MU too but he knocked me out of apex. I've learned alot from it all tho and had fun which iz all that mattered

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Oh, how unlucky of you to draw Kakera at such an early stage. And I am sure Kakera is well-versed with Fox match-up because of Yui (who I think did not drop Fox entirely). Oh and Falco match-up... I wish we had at least some little amount of stun too, I think that will make things easier for Fox. But then that is only my wish.

 

[//JaZz\\]

Naw I've felt so lucky to hve had Kakera in my pool. I don't like to avoid any top playerz in tha world cuz thatz how u get better. U should want to meet and play em. And idont believe we need any stun at all to help with falco. Our fox speed iz a great tool

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Yeah, each to his own because we do not operate on a hive mind like certain race in a certain game does