The Sonic 'Self improvement' thread, plus your questions answered! FAQ

[Tenki]

2 complaints ¦/

1) So I really suck at buffering runs out of aerials.

It came up to mind when Puffball brought up how he wasn't able to do his B-air>run correctly. Because I can't do that too well in general. I know my followup game could be more seamless if I could just freaking buffer the run out of a contact aerial like N-air or B-air.

The hitlag always throws me off.

2) I always DDP too early (?)

I always end up doing an awkward turnaround or just a forward slide because I try to DDP too fast. It's disgusting.

But if I do it too slow, it doesn't feel very useful.
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Tips? Experiences in doing these better?

When I went to that one tourney on Sat, I was playing so blocky at the beginning of the tourney, it was nasty.

 

[aeghrur]

In my own thread again

So yeah, any tips on adapting my playstyle in a match once I've read they're play style? I'm working on my conditioning but changing is really holding me back...

Mess up their spacing.
You learned their playstyle right? You know how they camp and how they approach.
Mess up their spacing and everything they do will be dangerous to them. How is that not an advantage?

 

[infomon]

1) So I really suck at buffering runs out of aerials.

It came up to mind when Puffball brought up how he wasn't able to do his B-air>run correctly. Because I can't do that too well in general. I know my followup game could be more seamless if I could just freaking buffer the run out of a contact aerial like N-air or B-air.

The hitlag always throws me off.

2) I always DDP too early (?)

I always end up doing an awkward turnaround or just a forward slide because I try to DDP too fast. It's disgusting.

But if I do it too slow, it doesn't feel very useful.
-------------------------
Tips? Experiences in doing these better?

When I went to that one tourney on Sat, I was playing so blocky at the beginning of the tourney, it was nasty.

yeaaahh... sonic takes techskill, srsly. My timing gets thrown off at tourney and them I'm all "whaaaaa I'm just standing thar! Why am I standing-upsmashing rather than walking Utilt!? dashdance sonic!!! waaaah!"

*cough*

as for 1) buffering run out of Bair..... this is why Bair's landing lag is annoying; I think the buffering works different depending on whether or not the Bair is landing or if you're just landing after the Bair is done. So watch out for that and maybe experiment.

 

[MarKO X]

Okay, wut is a good method for using a spinshot on the ground?

I can do the air one easy (downB + cstick), but the ground one gives me trouble. Any tipz?

 

[Kinzer]

Slide your thumb down on the C-Stick REALLY fast. It's really easy once you're quick, trust me.

P.S. a grounded Spinshot only works with Side-B if you didn't already know this.

 

[infomon]

And remember that side-B has two lag periods as it starts:
1. lag before the aura appears
2. additional lag before the side-B can be released

The difference is subtle (only a few frames), and some don't believe it exists. Anyway, you can only spinshot after the second part; otherwise the jump input gets buffered wrong and it's not a spinshot.

 

[4nace]

Spinshots would most likely fail pretty fierce. He plays an aggressive IC so the second he saw me charging a down-b or side-b he'd probly be close enough to grab me and kill me...

I used a strategy of platform camping and spaced bairs but sometime he could perfect shield the bair and grab me when I messed up the spacing... Kinda sucks to work your *** off to get in like 8 bairs and fairs then lose because he grabbed you once....

I got to play a few chaingrabbing ICs at CoT4. I played Gonzo's ICs lol and he could get 5-6 grabs pretty consistently and even had a few 0-deaths playing against my friends ROB.

The strategy that i developed is to never stop moving and try to separate the ***** as quickly as you can and make sure you gimp the crap out of her. Its very difficult to start a chain grab if the ICs are separated.

I also tried to spam back airs first, but that did not work too well as he would grab the first one i messed up =/. Side-B uncancelled in the air actually worked pretty well (aim for the top corner that is not facing you), but the best move for me ended up being the dash attack as i could space it so if he shielded i would be out of his range for a pivot grab and if i hit him i could pivot then try to forward air them to separate.

Hopefully you can figure something out. Are you playing Lain by any chance?


Also, I learned some new strats that might help you guys out in certain match-ups.

Sonic Down Air > Falco's Side B
(If done high enough ie off a battlefield platform you can down air his recovery and then immediately use the B-Homing move for a fairly low percent KO. If the falco starts to learn this and delays his over B for you to pass with the D-air jump out and drop a spring then down air to grab the ledge. Works like a charm)

ASC > Zelda's Side B
(This is actually very useful to learn as it sets up many options. One, if you are mid-range from her, the lag from her Side-B could allow a hit if you continue the SC when you land. If you are very close range you can let the ASC hit or shield grab on landing. If you are far away then just start up another ASC as getting hit by the Side-B clangs with a SC and can be useful if you are expecting it.)

Zelda's USmash > Any Aerial Approach by Sonic
(Don't ever try to approach an expecting zelda from above. The USmash has enough range that even if you are trying to D-air to shield grab don't do it as you will eat 19 damage for getting too close.)

One thing that i do sometimes that i dont see many Sonics do is place a spring right near an edge then immediately down air to the ground toward the middle of the level. What this does is limit many characters get up options, i usually stand within range to shield-grab get up attack or alittle further back to punish a roll, but it limits the space where they can safely land and just adds a nice mind game.


Hope this post helped someone =)

~4nace

 

[Kinzer]

Make you keep them seperated as long as you can too, you forgot to mention.

*Takes note of the Spring at the stage.*

 

[Jim Morrison]

stuff

If this was your first post in Sonic Boards, and post more like this, we will love you :O
We need good posters, and it's time we had some new member to the board

 

[MarKO X]

4nace!

I remember watching you at CoT4 via the live feed. Welcome to the Sonic Boards!

 

[Camalange]

4nace, I saw you at CoT4 but I never actually got the chance to meet you >_>

Did you see the Sonic TV? At one point, Malcolm, Blue, ITT and I just took over one of the TV's for Sonic friendlies and we had a Sonic doll on top of it XD You should've come over.

I personally already knew everything you mentioned, but it may be new to others and reminders don't hurt.

 

[~TBS~]

4nace, I saw you at CoT4 but I never actually got the chance to meet you >_>

Did you see the Sonic TV? At one point, Malcolm, Blue, ITT and I just took over one of the TV's for Sonic friendlies and we had a Sonic doll on top of it XD You should've come over.

I personally already knew everything you mentioned, but it may be new to others and reminders don't hurt.

oh word? Steak, guys. GGs

putting a spring at the edge? that is the most funniest thing to do, i am serious. It can open up alot of opportunites.

4nace, you teamed with that Zelda, right? Good stuff. iSDJ let me know that you were cool. Welcome to our boards, dude.

 

[4nace]

Haha yea i did play with that Zelda at CoT4! He sweet spot kicked me to death in a close game against two snakes hahaha =P

Camalange, I think i saw you watching our friendlies, when blue was at our tv with that marth and that g&w but i wasnt sure if it was you then =P. I'm pretty sure now it was. And no i didn't see the Sonic TV!!! I was probably playing against Gonzo at that point which was actually really fun. I did get to see some of your tourney matches though. Sucked that you only got 4th, those metaknights weren't even that good!!

Thanks for the welcome guys! My Sonic is starting to get alot better at reading other players, and my style is becoming more and more defensive against most characters =P (Sort of like another Blue I guess haha).

I hope to have some videos up by next week with my CoT4 matches and just a short video(1 minute maybe) of some combos I've pulled off in competitive play.

Also, does anyway have any tips for gimping Ike's? My one friend plays the edges very carelessly as Ike as he assumes that his super armor and the sword projectile will protect him, but i know sonic should be able to do something to stop it.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Also, does anyway have any tips for gimping Ike's? My one friend plays the edges very carelessly as Ike as he assumes that his super armor and the sword projectile will protect him, but i know sonic should be able to do something to stop it.

Spring gimp. Spring hits him on the way up.

CiTH combo is very useful for gimping him.

 

[Kinzer]

Just make sure you don't Dair on the way back down, or you'll suicide.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Now that I'm in the FAQ board...

I notice Sonic has a hard time in 4 player FFA's. Many of the abilities and tricks he can use in 1 on 1 don't work as well, especially on the smaller stages. So I ask, what Sonic techs do you use more in a 4 player FFA with Sonic than a 1 VS 1 battle? We are assuming the matches use NO ITEMS.

 

[infomon]

I don't really play FFAs, but it really depends if you're playing on TIME or STOCK. If it's stock, you'll want to use everything Sonic's got to run away from the battle, poking in damage or kills where it's safe to do so. Use Ftilt, Bair, and other relatively "safe" moves. Try not to use stuff like Usmash, since even though it's easily to land when on people when they're fighting amongst themselves, the extensive hitlag + ending lag gives a third-party a lot of time to come in and punish.

If you're playing time, you want to let others wrack up the damage, then get cheap kills where possible. idk tho

 

[Sagen du Smash]

I'm thinking stock battles mostly. I almost never see Time in tourneys of any kind.

Oh yeah, good attempt against Ally's CF. I hope Espy or Malcolm can try next. Definably got closer than Anther did.

 

[infomon]

well I never see FFA tourneys so lol idk

and lollllll thx about ally, it was worth the $5 even tho it's pretty depressing to watch, I learn from my mistakes so w/e

 

[Tenki]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201103
^ that's the right FAQ.

I'd like to see this thread develop more as a "hay, I have trouble or would like to work on this aspect of my game, help me out with meaty steak tips" thread.

And mine can be the actual "what is _________??? //how does sonic do in ______??" thread / Sanctuary zone.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

I would find it easier if someone from her challenged me and then told me what my trouble is with Sonic.

Random tidbit. D-tilt can combo into F-tilt, and F-tilt can combo into U-tilt, you have to be fast to pull it off effectively though.

 

[Tenki]

Explain to me how F-tilt can combo into U-tilt, let alone anything else, with its ending lag and trajectory?

 

[Kinzer]

Obviously Brawl+ Tenki?

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Explain to me how F-tilt can combo into U-tilt, let alone anything else, with its ending lag and trajectory?

Tested in training mode.

 

[Kinzer]

Just because the helper in training mode told you that it counted as a 2 (or 5, if you connect all hits from both tilts)-hit combo does not mean it's going to work IRL.

Wanna know how I know this?

Get Captain Falcon, have Ness as the dummy.

Set him to 999%, grab, then set the damage to 0%, then start pummeling.

Watch what happens, LOLCakes.

T'was a trick I learned by watching somebody on a livestream.

 

[Tenki]

What %'s does this work on?
How does the opponent DI in order to get hit by the followups (or rather, which way would the opponent DI to escape, and how can you best follow them up)?
Does opponent SDI make any difference?

kinzer's got it, lol

 

[da K.I.D.]

ftilt doesnt combo into anything.

tenki, i cant believe youre actually validating that idea with a responce, you know sonic well enough to know thats not possible

 

[Kinzer]

KID, I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic/trying to see what the guy could come up with if anything, and so was I, even though I had already addressed this earlier. You're pretty much +1/showing how naive you can be when it comes to the physics of the intorwebz.

 

[Tenki]

Kinzer's words to KID
are sort of harsh <3

Treat this like a sanctuary zone where we help them learn without firing lazors at them.

 

[Kinzer]

Well, can you say it wasn't true Tenki?

Sure I can't speak on your behalf, but I know I was just being silly with the guy.

Mhm.

You should never be so Terious on the internet, or you might be offended by my choice of words. XD

 

[Camalange]

Ftilt does not combo into anything. Ever.

That's all we need to say guize

 

[aeghrur]

Bump... because I really believe we should get stuff in here, lol.
Like videos for improvement in here.

 

[Kinzer]

Camal, I don't know why I didn't reply, but I must've decided you were somewhat right.

FTilt does however string from GRs sometimes and like ends some strings... not to mention it is a 2-hit combo. XD

I find FTilts legit after DTilts though.

 

[Camalange]

Camal, I don't know why I didn't reply, but I must've decided you were somewhat right.

FTilt does however string from GRs sometimes and like ends some strings... not to mention it is a 2-hit combo. XD

I find FTilts legit after DTilts though.

Comboing things INTO Ftilt =/= Comboing OUT OF Ftilt

But yeah, Sourspot Bair at lower %s can combo into Ftilt.

It also combos into grab...legit combos into a grab but I don't see anyone else do this.

 

[Kinzer]

Maybe you can combo into another FTilt is they happen to be stupid enough to come at you again. :3

Eh but that reminds me, how do people like Tenki play decently with only Wi-Fi experience before he had any offline? Was it that he was smart enough to see the difference in what worked and what really didn't?

Kind of hard for me to right it in detail.

 

[Camalange]

Tenki always said that when he played, he just tried to read player habits and such, and not really focus on the "WiFi combos", which is smart and actually helps offline play.

 

[Tenki]

Tenki always said that when he played, he just tried to read player habits and such, and not really focus on the "WiFi combos", which is smart and actually helps offline play.

But then after going into offline play, I started to get paranoid about accidentally doing things that might not work offline (ex: F-smash miss > retreating stutterstep F-smash, which, as good as a mindgame it is, it's way punishable after the first one LOL) and ended up removing ALOT of (even useful) moves out of my game XD



but even reading player habits online has its limitations.

like, online, if you start moving (running) towards someone, alot of people tend to airdodge or/and then spotdodge as soon as they land, or DJ airdodge from the ledge to avoid a grab or attack. No good.

Offline, since there's alot less time needed to commit to moves, the spacing 'threshold' I need to bait something becomes alot closer to the opponent, and sometimes, it's lolful when I run towards someone and charge an F-smash in the opposite direction before entering the range that I'd need to make it look like I'm going for a grab (which is what 'baits' the roll in the first place) XD



but I haven't played brawl in weeks due to various reasons so I can't really say I'm decent anymore lolol

 

[Kinzer]

I got a question.

Why did Tenki/you just call me Kneezard? Part of your lulzy post/mindgames/set-up for something?

Teehee. Too good Tenki.

 

[Chis]

I can't dash dance and my tech skill is inconsistent, plus good ZSS **** me

 

[Onomanic]

What kind of throw setups does Sonic have? Throw combos are sexy, and Sonic has some amazing throws.

Beer and Steak.