The Sonic 'Self improvement' thread, plus your questions answered! FAQ

[ROOOOY!]

I usually just time an utilt. If it's something like Kirby's bair, I think utilt trades hits. Better then nothing I suppose.

I'm not sure, I don't have much experience against multi jump characters, even though I play as two myself D;

Also, I think every Sonic main should have GF2TW's avatar as theirs.

 

[GwJ]

I have a question.

I currently main Rawb, but I would like to secondary Sonic. He's just too cool fast.
I've already got down the SDSC, Tech-chasing with D-throw and usage of his side taunt. I've also read the Sonic guide. Are there any other good techniques I should learn? I'm trying to learn to spinshot or whatever it was called right now.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

So I sort of have a problem with multi-jump characters.

Specifically, a strategy where they'll do a retreating air jump+aerial if you get close. It throws off my grab game alot, and the retreating aerials are usually spaced to outprioritize.

It makes fighting Pits, Kirby, campy MK's (aggro ones aren't so bad :3), and some D3 players kind of annoying. And it's specifically for multi jump characters because they're less predictable, and beyond that, their airjumps are only about a SH height, so they can counterattack with it.

This imo contributes to why Sonic is bad. He can cancel his spin attacks and do all kinds of fancy stuff but at the end of the day, they don't actually get him anywhere. His approaches aren't very safe compared to other characters and with no projectile to fire away with, Sonic will always have to approach in the end if the opponent simply camps with a projectile

I happen to be quite a grabby Sonic as well and here's what I've found best - walk in and shield. It's less than ideal but it lets you get in close so you can grab them/attack them

 

[Jim Morrison]

I have a question.

I currently main Rawb, but I would like to secondary Sonic. He's just too cool fast.
I've already got down the SDSC, Tech-chasing with D-throw and usage of his side taunt. I've also read the Sonic guide. Are there any other good techniques I should learn? I'm trying to learn to spinshot or whatever it was called right now.

I'm glad someone thought of making Sonic his secondary and actually posted it here. I appreciate it :D I'll try not to scare you off. This is the main thread you'll need:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170844

The stickied guide is important too, but Sonic is learnt by playing others with him, learning from them, it's pretty hard to learn him on paper.

 

[thecatinthehat]

I have a question.

I currently main Rawb, but I would like to secondary Sonic. He's just too cool fast.
I've already got down the SDSC, Tech-chasing with D-throw and usage of his side taunt. I've also read the Sonic guide. Are there any other good techniques I should learn? I'm trying to learn to spinshot or whatever it was called right now.

Do not d-throw.

Opponents can tech it, making you really vulnerable.

You'll be stuck in the throw lag while they end up in front of you.

It's almost as bad a d-tilt spamming opponent.

There's NOTHING you can do.

 

[GwJ]

Yea, I read that topic a few days ago. How else can I techchase with Sonic then?

 

[Kinzer]

You can't, none of Sonic's other throws will be able to send people at that kind of angle.

 

[Tenki]

I have a question.

I currently main Rawb, but I would like to secondary Sonic. He's just too cool fast.
I've already got down the SDSC, Tech-chasing with D-throw and usage of his side taunt. I've also read the Sonic guide. Are there any other good techniques I should learn? I'm trying to learn to spinshot or whatever it was called right now.

Learn techniques, but all you have to do is play/space smart and you should win.

The techs are just there as tools, if you have a purpose for them. Like all the shield cancel stuff and techs are kind of useless you use them purposely and for a specific reaction. For example,
[side-b charge] > [opponent approaches/dodges] > [you shield cancel and grab/dash attack]
or
[Dash towards opponent] > [shield + SH out of shield (retreating would be nice)] > [opponent spotdodges] > [ASC combo]

Even things like [Spinshot overhead] > [opponent gets caught offguard/uses attack and misses] > [B-air] or Spinshot overhead] > [opponent shields] > [fastfall grab] are things that have to be done that punish certain reactions from opponents xD

This imo contributes to why Sonic is bad. He can cancel his spin attacks and do all kinds of fancy stuff but at the end of the day, they don't actually get him anywhere. His approaches aren't very safe compared to other characters and with no projectile to fire away with, Sonic will always have to approach in the end if the opponent simply camps with a projectile

I happen to be quite a grabby Sonic as well and here's what I've found best - walk in and shield. It's less than ideal but it lets you get in close so you can grab them/attack them

Projectiles aren't really much of a problem though, unless it's online. You're not really approaching the projectiles and trying to counterattack them, so all you have to worry about is shielding. I kind of think of the air jump> aerial as a mixup-counter just as we have reverse SH > ASC (Sonic is all for horizontal-type feints, but really kind of sucks at the vertical ones :[)

Like, you can approach and think they're gonna land, then they dj aerial. Or you'll approach and think they're gonna jump and they fastfall an aerial on you. I guess for me it's more of an online issue because this facet of the game is something I just don't have on prediction, instead of reaction. But anything to better bait and punish a response would help lol.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Projectiles aren't really much of a problem though, unless it's online. You're not really approaching the projectiles and trying to counterattack them, so all you have to worry about is shielding. I kind of think of the air jump> aerial as a mixup-counter just as we have reverse SH > ASC (Sonic is all for horizontal-type feints, but really kind of sucks at the vertical ones :[)

Like, you can approach and think they're gonna land, then they dj aerial. Or you'll approach and think they're gonna jump and they fastfall an aerial on you. I guess for me it's more of an online issue because this facet of the game is something I just don't have on prediction, instead of reaction. But anything to better bait and punish a response would help lol.

I didn't mean that not having a projectile means certain doom - I meant it's something that can put Sonic at a disadvantage because he can't just sit there and throw crap out like most characters (although he is very fast so it doesn't matter too much I guess )

Projectiles online...lol unless you have a good connection, there's no hope for you which is why I try to limit my Turnip spamming when playing Peach cause I feel bad since you can't perfect shield them easily :/

The problem you seem to be having...it's online right? Hmmm...depending on your connection that can make things difficult...

What I normally do is jump around myself, out of the way of their spaced approaches if need be. Sonic has good air speed so movement wise, it's ok and if things get dangerous, you can always Spring out the way. Eventually, your opponent will run out of multiple jumps/space on the stage and they'll be forced to land/get back onto the stage. When that happens, I either Up Smash/Up Tilt or shield an incoming downward attack and attempt to punish

Simply put, my advice would be that you want to bait them into either getting them above you for an Up Smash/Up Tilt/Uair or make them try and get you with a ground attack so you can punish. They can spam spaced approaches all they like if you don't run into them and continually get closer and closer. Eventually, they'll have to do something else


...Sorry that sounds/looks really crap :/ What do you think Tenki?

 

[Tenki]

Yea, I read that topic a few days ago. How else can I techchase with Sonic then?

You still can XD.

1- matchup inexperience. You're still sure to be able to D-throw some people, realistically. The DI-up+airdodge/double jump method, which was previously thought to be the best choice, is still pretty common.
2- Against people who know about it, they may try to get away with things that really won't catch Sonic before he can shield, none of which I will name. It sets up for a counter-punishment, especially at higher %'s. But really, for pretty much every character, the best they can pull is a jab combo.

D-throw is still useful by the edge of stages though, especially if your opponent is at a higher % that sends a little further than normal. Can you see it? They think they're gonna tech the floor, but get sent past the edge and airdodge, while you recover and set up a gimp

What I normally do is jump around myself, out of the way of their spaced approaches if need be. Sonic has good air speed so movement wise, it's ok and if things get dangerous, you can always Spring out the way. Eventually, your opponent will run out of multiple jumps/space on the stage and they'll be forced to land/get back onto the stage. When that happens, I either Up Smash/Up Tilt or shield an incoming downward attack and attempt to punish

Simply put, my advice would be that you want to bait them into either getting them above you for an Up Smash/Up Tilt/Uair or make them try and get you with a ground attack so you can punish. They can spam spaced approaches all they like if you don't run into them and continually get closer and closer. Eventually, they'll have to do something else


...Sorry that sounds/looks really crap :/ What do you think Tenki?

Well, my main issue is that they don't use all their jumps. For the 4+ jumpers, they may only use 3, or 4, land if I don't approach, then do it again. Things like SH D-air are kind of cruel shield pressure, though I guess it may be possible to FH F-air or something out of shield.

Oh well. I just thought of that lol. I'll try it next time and see how it works out.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

If it's Dair specifically, with most characters you can full jump Fair/Bair them so yup that seems legit

If it's Fair/Bair...hmm...experiment. I know how to get around it with Peach but with Sonic...DAC Up Smash them when they're in the air? Wait for them land/jump again and punish that?

Then again...if this is Wi Fi we're talking about and your connection isn't great... D:

 

[ithrowthings]

I have a question.

I currently main Rawb, but I would like to secondary Sonic. He's just too cool fast.
I've already got down the SDSC, Tech-chasing with D-throw and usage of his side taunt. I've also read the Sonic guide. Are there any other good techniques I should learn? I'm trying to learn to spinshot or whatever it was called right now.

Dude, you're gonna main sonic now too? In your area you may actually stand out from the crowd if you DON'T main sonic cause everyone there already does. If you still wanna main him I still stick with my earlier advice I gave you, don't roll behind your opponents when they respawn and try to mix up your recovery.

GL with Sonic and hopefully I don't have to face you in another tourney cause my Sonic Vs. Sonic matchup is just..... awful.

 

[Sonic-Fan]

Dude, you're gonna main sonic now too? In your area you may actually stand out from the crowd if you DON'T main sonic cause everyone there already does. If you still wanna main him I still stick with my earlier advice I gave you, don't roll behind your opponents when they respawn and try to mix up your recovery.

GL with Sonic and hopefully I don't have to face you in another tourney cause my Sonic Vs. Sonic matchup is just..... awful.

am I REALLY the only person in the world that enjoys sonic dittos??

I find them really useful to (excuse the pun) STEP UP your game since sonic can escape/punish/counter most of his own moves quite well.

 

[GwJ]

Dude, you're gonna main sonic now too? In your area you may actually stand out from the crowd if you DON'T main sonic cause everyone there already does. If you still wanna main him I still stick with my earlier advice I gave you, don't roll behind your opponents when they respawn and try to mix up your recovery.

GL with Sonic and hopefully I don't have to face you in another tourney cause my Sonic Vs. Sonic matchup is just..... awful.

I'm not maining Sonic. I'm still going ROB, but I want to secondary Sonic simply because he's so fun to play as. Hell, I may secondary Sonic just so I can do 8-minute sonic dittos.

 

[Jim Morrison]

They don't last 8 minutes.

 

[ithrowthings]

I'm not maining Sonic. I'm still going ROB, but I want to secondary Sonic simply because he's so fun to play as. Hell, I may secondary Sonic just so I can do 8-minute sonic dittos.

a good sonic gets it done in under 4.

 

[Chis]

They last forever.

 

[Sonic-Fan]

Thay last forever.

that's what makes them lulz-tastic

 

[Kinzer]

That's what she said.

 

[Camalange]

They don't last 8 minutes.

Yes. They do.

a good sonic gets it done in under 4.

No they don't. You and PD ran out the time in one match and practically ran out the time in the other matches >_>
As did I, lol.

They last forever.

This is a correct statement

that's what makes them lulz-tastic

This is a correct statement

That's what she said.

Your mom.

GWJ just wants to be like his best friend Camalange, lol.
<3

 

[thecatinthehat]

MY Sonic dittos are actually really fast paced. Just ask mah boiii Kinzer.

But that's just becuase I'm sexy.

Maybe it's because I play 2 stock mostly.

lol who knows.

I'm still dead sexy.

 

[GwJ]

Sonic is just too cool Cam.

amidoingitrite?

 

[Boxob.]

MY Sonic dittos are actually really fast paced. Just ask mah boiii Kinzer.

But that's just becuase I'm sexy.

Maybe it's because I play 2 stock mostly.

lol who knows.

I'm still dead sexy.

Two stock?

I wonder where you learned that from.

;D

 

[da K.I.D.]

sonic dittos and MK ditto, and Falcon dittos are the closest thing to playing melee.

 

[Camalange]

Falcon Dittos are the best way to play the game.

No matter what, it's always...

-Fun
-Intense
-Sexy
-Flashy
-PAWNCH

NOTHING can go wrong when playing a Falcon ditto.

/offtopic

 

[Jim Morrison]

Falcon dittos are what make up 75% of a persons replays

 

[Exceladon City]

Hey, I've been hunting around trying to figure out how to cancel the lag on Sonic's D-Air and I don't know if it auto cancels or is there something I need to do to make it cancel.
Any advice?

 

[aeghrur]

With enough height, it'll auto cancel.
Like, ground-spring full height will auto cancel it.

 

[Browny]

wait... is dair actually AC'ing or is the move finishing before you land? Same case with upair?

omg too hard to figure out

 

[aeghrur]

It's finishing before you land, but I say autocanceling because it's a bit faster, lol.

 

[GwJ]

Yea, after you've used the Dair, after the hitlag is done Sonic will revert to his freefall motion again, getting rid of the lag.

 

[PhragX]

I'm a little unclear about the instant edge-grab tech. I saw a video for it, but it used the term "hadouken" as you run off the ledge. Can someone clarify this for me?

 

[infomon]

I think the hadouken is you just circle the control stick from forward, through down, to back.... reeeeally fast. I never played SF2 etc....

but the way I do the instant edgehog, is diagonal down+forward > diagonal up+back. Just a really quick flick, it never fails me (unless I'm too close to the edge so I have trouble running off the stage first).

 

[Tenki]

I'm a little unclear about the instant edge-grab tech. I saw a video for it, but it used the term "hadouken" as you run off the ledge. Can someone clarify this for me?

In street fighter, the 'hadouken' is performed by pressing punch after a quarter circle roll on the control stick/d-pad, from down to forward. What they're referring to is the quarter circle movement on the control stick.

To do the instant edgegrab, you walk off the edge, and immediately fastfall and hold towards the edge. So the input you'd need to do this would be:

(if you're falling off the right side)
[hold right until you reach the edge] > (quickly flick/roll the stick) [down] --

​

(if you're falling off the left side)
[hold left until you reach the edge] > (quickly flick/roll the stick) [down] --

​

​

 

[PhragX]

That advice is great from both of you! Thanks guys, I'll work on the timing.

 

[Tenki]

Well, to 'practice' it, just roll to the ledge (it puts you exactly on the edge), then do a forward-down-back motion.

The next part, which is timing that only you can learn, is being able to do it out of a run. It's basically the same thing except you have to sort of be ready to perform it. If you fastfall but don't grab the ledge, you're probably doing it too late.

 

[PhragX]

In between matches I've been practicing and I think I got it. It's not so difficult, but I wouldn't have remembered the reference to Street Fighter without the help. You guys rock.

 

[Sonic-Fan]

I can actually do the regular edgehog with sonic (the one that all the other character's do) by just going off the ledge and he falls straight down.

I don't know how I do it, I just did it one day, it worked and now I can do it all the time...

am I doing something special that I don't know of, or...??

stupid question...I'm just curious...

 

[Tenki]

maybe you're haphazardly fastfalling?

Or walking?


9_9; who knows. If it works, it works. That's what matters lol.

 

[Sonic-Fan]

maybe you're haphazardly fastfalling?

Or walking?


9_9; who knows. If it works, it works. That's what matters lol.

this is true.