The Sonic 'Self improvement' thread, plus your questions answered! FAQ

[aeghrur]

What kind of throw setups does Sonic have? Throw combos are sexy, and Sonic has some amazing throws.

Beer and Steak.

None are definite.
Best are punishing lag and baiting out to punish lag I suppose... =/

 

[Kinzer]

I can't dash dance and my tech skill is inconsistent, plus good ZSS **** me

Practicing your tech skill in training mode > Wi-Fi.

If that doesn't work just keep at it.

 

[Chis]

Practicing your tech skill in training mode > Wi-Fi.

If that doesn't work just keep at it.

I mean offline, I practice loads in training mode already. And I still can't DAC 100% :/

 

[Onomanic]

So no real good set ups for Sonic from a throw? Darn. Well, I'll have to make things up as I go along right?

Beer and Steak.

 

[Chis]

What kind of throw setups does Sonic have? Throw combos are sexy, and Sonic has some amazing throws.

Beer and Steak.

At 0%-

Up throw > up tilt/uair

Up throw > spin charge shield cancel (SCSC) to bait them into attacking you. Shield and grab them.

This can also work for forward throw, but is better with up throw.

If your opponent constantly DIs you up throws, at higher percentages forward throw can act as a DI trap. So F throw > spring > uair.

Down throw acts as tech chases.

Picking up Sonic blu link?

 

[Kinzer]

D-throw is bad if your opponent knows how to tech it.

Also yes All of Sonic's throws are just weak set-ups that require you to read your opponents' DI to follow-up with more stuff.

 

[Camalange]

I would so rant on all the amazing setups Sonic has with his throws if I wasn't working on a research paper.

PM me sometime blu link...lol

I'll basically say what Kinzer did, but I'll tell you how each setup 'works' and what reactions you're trying to bait from the throws.

 

[Tenki]

Tell me too, because I'm too lazy to think about it myself.

 

[ithrowthings]

I got to play a few chaingrabbing ICs at CoT4. I played Gonzo's ICs lol and he could get 5-6 grabs pretty consistently and even had a few 0-deaths playing against my friends ROB.

The strategy that i developed is to never stop moving and try to separate the ***** as quickly as you can and make sure you gimp the crap out of her. Its very difficult to start a chain grab if the ICs are separated.

I also tried to spam back airs first, but that did not work too well as he would grab the first one i messed up =/. Side-B uncancelled in the air actually worked pretty well (aim for the top corner that is not facing you), but the best move for me ended up being the dash attack as i could space it so if he shielded i would be out of his range for a pivot grab and if i hit him i could pivot then try to forward air them to separate.

Hopefully you can figure something out. Are you playing Lain by any chance?

I didn't see this till just now. I'm too slow...

Ya, I posted that back when I was a bit less experienced at the matchup. I played omniswell and chewy recently and I'm about 50/50 with their IC's now.

And yes, I am playing against Lain which is what makes it so bad. I take his ICs down to last stock usually but it seems no matter what I do I can't ever pull ahead in the matchup against Lain. I sadly even considered using a secondary just to fight Lain's ICs.


Also, I totally saw you at CoT4, mostly just doubles with that Zelda player.

 

[Sperz]

how can i beat good warios 1v1with my sonic? i know sonics not to good when put up against a wario but is there any strategy i can do to win? best idea i got is dash+upsmash, up, foward A



if anyone wants to do dittos, thatd be cool cuz i need some more work on my sonic

 

[Kinzer]

I don't feel like writing another big detailed guide or really feel like going into specifics.

Please read this and if you have any doubts or questions please let me know.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6127357#post6127357

 

[Dragonbreath]

how can i beat good warios 1v1with my sonic? i know sonics not to good when put up against a wario but is there any strategy i can do to win? best idea i got is dash+upsmash, up, foward A



if anyone wants to do dittos, thatd be cool cuz i need some more work on my sonic

Fsmash has greater range than the bite if you tilt it upwards, I know that.

 

[darkNES386]

how can i beat good warios 1v1with my sonic? i know sonics not to good when put up against a wario but is there any strategy i can do to win? best idea i got is dash+upsmash, up, foward A



if anyone wants to do dittos, thatd be cool cuz i need some more work on my sonic

If you're struggling with the type of wario that I think you are... you need to guess where he's going to land and not always try and chase him in the air.

If he bites a lot then yes uair/fsmash (tilted up... thanks dragonbreath, I did not know that)/ or jumping over him and bairing... as silly as it sounds are all options.

I would go to the character match-up thread to get additional help... more discussion happens there.

 

[Dragonbreath]

What's the general opinion on Upsmash? I went through a Rob Dair with it once, and a midair Falcon kick, too. The thing is, it always seems to spit people out before the knockout blow. Any advice?

 

[Kinzer]

Pretty good, but must be used smartly and sparingly.

Or at least that's me anyway, since I figured I don't need the C-Stick to DACUS, it's pretty awesome right now.

There's also no way to keep opponents trapped in, you have to rely on the fact their DI is not godlike/lucky.

 

[Camalange]

I find myself using Usmash a lot now after Bairs at mid %s. It makes for a pretty good follow up if you catch them before hitting the ground.

I always hyphen smash though.

 

[Chis]

Any tips on dash dancing with Sonic? I need it to learn DDP :/

 

[RyuKen!]

Any tips on how i should use sonic in team matches?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Don't use Sonic in teams. There's better characters. If you do team, try to find a Snake, have him plant C4. Or go with other heavy characters. Really.
Just try to be as annoying as possible, with lots of spindashing, avoiding ally allies.

 

[Chis]

And any tips on dash dancing?

 

[RyuKen!]

Don't use Sonic in teams. There's better characters. If you do team, try to find a Snake, have him plant C4. Or go with other heavy characters. Really.
Just try to be as annoying as possible, with lots of spindashing, avoiding ally allies.

Well i,m a sonic main only, no secondarys. I,ve been using sonic since the day brawl came out, i was asking because teams maybe included into a tournement that i go to monthly. Thanks for the snake tip.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Chis how did you get custom title?

Also, DDP? I have no clue how to do it. I can't even dash dance. Get at Dnes thread and just keep trying to get it. It's too hard for me, I gave up on it.

Ryo, check this out for more help:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227254

 

[Tenki]

And any tips on dash dancing?

Chis how did you get custom title?

Also, DDP? I have no clue how to do it. I can't even dash dance. Get at Dnes thread and just keep trying to get it. It's too hard for me, I gave up on it.

Ryo, check this out for more help:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227254

Okay, uh...

First off, try spamming left and right on your control stick. Wiggle your thumb, lmao.

If Sonic is staying almost in one place continually looking awkward and starting dashes, then you've pretty much got it.

The only thing left is to be able to do that with only one movement, instead of uncontrolled spam.

So if you're moving left and want to DDP so you face right, then you do a quick [left-right] motion. If you're moving right and want to DDP so you face left, then you do a quick [right-left] motion.

 

[highfive]

Every time there's a stage with a moving or still fall through platform my techniques get messed up. I usually start out with side B with two hits then use either Uair or Fair. If it goes well i continue with a Dair or homing attack. But with the fall through platforms I can't use half of my combo. Any suggestions as to what I should do?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Every time there's a stage with a moving or still fall through platform my techniques get messed up. I usually start out with side B with two hits then use either Uair or Fair. If it goes well i continue with a Dair or homing attack. But with the fall through platforms I can't use half of my combo. Any suggestions as to what I should do?

I don't really get how it messes up your combo. You're rising, not falling trough the platforms.

Also, if you use this as a direct approach, this should not work on people who are good. They should probably shield, hit you out of it or grab you. Try mixing it up with side-B's. The combo is still a good punisher. If you're up quite close, try using down-B instead of side-B so you don't get the hop and get both SDR (Spin Dash Roll on the ground) and SDJ (Spin Dash Jump, jumping when rolling) in as hits.
HA is not a good followup as it gets punished easily after your opponent airdodges.

 

[highfive]

Not entirely. I only use my combo when they can't escape it. Usually when they just finished a move with high lag. I just use a normal side B to rack up damage and Nairs for the same purpose. When you use the Side B to go up in the air your opponent goes with you so when you use Dair and they manage to escape you can't cancel it from where your at so your open to attacks. I was wondering any way to stop that.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Not D-airing stops the lag? There's really no need for you to D-air. If it hits, you might as well use F-air, which does more damage and sends at almost the same angle. If it is to get back to the ground, don't use it with platforms under you. If you really need it for lulz though, use a Spring-Dair when you are about to D-air. It should put you high enough for D-air to autocancel.

 

[~TBS~]

Well i,m a sonic main only, no secondarys. I,ve been using sonic since the day brawl came out, i was asking because teams maybe included into a tournement that i go to monthly. Thanks for the snake tip.

^^I admire this guy. He is just like me, thats how you do it, man. yeah, Snake+Sonic is a highly effective team, really. Kinzer's guide on the team possibilities can also help you out. But, he raises an amazing point. I also need some help with Sonic in teams too.

@Chis ang Gf2tw
yo, DDP is legit. His vid on how to DDP should explian everything. Really, its just Sonic doing his dash, then stopping into the grind position, then you dash dance backwards. If this is somewhat confusing, Dnes' vid should clear it up. I think we can add this to our game with excellent results. This is a skill that isn't required, but it sure as heck helps. If you watch Espy's recent vids, you can also see DDP in action.

 

[highfive]

I guess but using Spring Dair wouldn't connect but I guess I could try.

 

[Jim Morrison]

As I said before, if you want the D-air to connect, try a F-air, it does 14% instead of D-air's 12%

 

[~TBS~]

I guess but using Spring Dair wouldn't connect but I guess I could try.

so wait a minute. i also have a question. why do almost ALL of the Sonic mainers use spring to dair? its so punishable, and it can put you into some nasty spots. Thats why i dont ever use Spring to dair, its just so....punishable.

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, SM5, you see he used D-air after a SDR to aerial combo to hit him again, but the platform intercepts him and gives him landing lag. If he used Spring D-air he wouldn't suffer landing lag if he felt really compelled to use the D-air instead of F-air.

 

[Tenki]

guize.

So I have like, 3 ways to land an F-smash/D-smash lol.

- Run towards (and maybe behind) and hope for a roll/spotdodge > (charge) smash
- Jump early and hope for an airdodge (airborne enemy) and go for landing lag.
- Run (away) and hope for a laggy attack to miss

:[

I need ideas on how to either set up or condition the desired behavior lol

 

[Kinzer]

How about a SHEASC (Short-Hop Empty Aerial Spin Charge) or just a ASCSC out of their range?

You could also cancel a run into a SDSC, it stops all your momentum, makes that noise, and hopefully opponents will be like "oh @#$5 gotta get in mah shield/do a quick attack to stop his running!"

 

[Camalange]

@Tenki

- If your opponent spotdodges too much at close range, charging Dsmash is the most fun in the world.

-Up angled Fsmash is really good against people who are either falling towards you/away but still close to you, and against people who empty SH or just down right jump alot.

- Jab > Fsmash
^no joke. I played against people that for some odd reason, spotdodge after getting hit from a jab, or just don't react at all...jab fsmash works against those people.

Those are the more non-obvious setups I can think of right now.

But honestly, killing is all about reading player habits/conditioning, all that fun stuff. Kill setups really depend on how your opponent reacts to certain situation :/ Just gotta get creative.

 

[Exceladon City]

Whiffed Cross-up FF SH Bair to Fsmash works like a charm. People try to punish the whiffed Bair and eat fist every time. It's probably more reliable than the Screeching Halt Punch.

 

[Tenki]

You could also cancel a run into a SDSC, it stops all your momentum, makes that noise, and hopefully opponents will be like "oh @#$5 gotta get in mah shield/do a quick attack to stop his running!"

lol that still works? O_O;

@Tenki

- If your opponent spotdodges too much at close range, charging Dsmash is the most fun in the world.

-Up angled Fsmash is really good against people who are either falling towards you/away but still close to you, and against people who empty SH or just down right jump alot.

- Jab > Fsmash
^no joke. I played against people that for some odd reason, spotdodge after getting hit from a jab, or just don't react at all...jab fsmash works against those people.

Those are the more non-obvious setups I can think of right now.

But honestly, killing is all about reading player habits/conditioning, all that fun stuff. Kill setups really depend on how your opponent reacts to certain situation :/ Just gotta get creative.

1- well, I usually go for F-smash lol. I'm going for the kill, not a 'push'. Unless you meant charging D-smash for the first hit, but F-smash is still stronger. XD
2- you're up-angling it for hitbox change, not knockback, right? because I don't think Sonic's UFsmash gets any special boosts :[
3- I guess that'd work lol. But it wouldn't work on button mashers or certain people who like to up-B :/

Whiffed Cross-up FF SH Bair to Fsmash works like a charm. People try to punish the whiffed Bair and eat fist every time. It's probably more reliable than the Screeching Halt Punch.

What are they trying to punish the whiffed b-air with? XD I'd think most tilts are fast enough to punish or hit before F-smash comes out..?

 

[Camalange]

1- well, I usually go for F-smash lol. I'm going for the kill, not a 'push'. Unless you meant charging D-smash for the first hit, but F-smash is still stronger. XD
2- you're up-angling it for hitbox change, not knockback, right? because I don't think Sonic's UFsmash gets any special boosts :[
3- I guess that'd work lol. But it wouldn't work on button mashers or certain people who like to up-B :/

1-Sonic's a sandbagger. Get them to high percents, and Dsmash is like, guaranteed to be fresh enough to kill. Fsmash works too, but Dsmash also covers if they decide to roll rather than spotdodge.

2-It doesn't increase knockback, but it can still kill. Don't forget you should've even be GOING for the kill untill like...100% on most characters. I mean, the kill percentage varies on attack freshness and stage positioning, but angled Fsmash covers a lot of air space. Give it a try.

3-I'm aware, but that's why I said only use it against people who react that way after a jab.

Like I said, Sonic has no guaranteed kill setups. It's all just abusing the other players strategies/habits/etc.

 

[iSpiN]

How good is Dair offstage?

 

[Chis]

How good is Dair offstage?

Well, when Dair has a blue aura trail (at the start), it'll semi-spike anything it hits.

As for recovery, you could dair > spring. Might help with pursuing characters with multiple jumps that like following you off stage.