The Sonic Glitch/Tech/Non-obvious move list & Gimp Guide *updated 2/16*

[flashmatic]

thanks for posting that its very useful

 

[Umby]

Needs more mention of Dash Attack Cancelling and of using Spin Dash Canceling to move forward/increase grab range.

 

[Tenki]

Dash Attack Cancelling? Like the Mortar Slide input? ._.; I guess you might as well put it, but it's not necessarily too useful for Sonic IMO

On the topic of Spin Dash Cancelling, it works with B-reversals and it feels more accurate for doing pivot grabs lol

Also might as well put in B-reversal too then. It's strangely useful with Sonic lol

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On Side-B, I'm pretty sure it has invincibility frames. I used it against Ike's Eruption, Fsmash, etc in 1/4 speed in Training mode. I went through it (obviously in range) and didn't take damage. Unlike most high priority attacks, if you use it on a projectile on its way up, the projectile doesn't get phased, but you go through it anyway

It's not during the WHOLE upward motion, but I don't know, roughly the first 5-10 frames, REGARDLESS of charge.

If you played Ike, timing it is similar to having to do the Eruption SAF.

PS Wolf lasers lose :d

 

[CaliburChamp]

Needs more mention of Dash Attack Cancelling and of using Spin Dash Canceling to move forward/increase grab range.

I already have a video of spin dash canceling, into grabs as well. I discovered it about a week in a half after brawl was released. Look at my last post here for the weblink to it.

 

[Umby]

I already have a video of spin dash canceling, into grabs as well. I discovered it about a week in a half after brawl was released. Look at my last post here for the weblink to it.

Not Spin Dash cancelling, silly. Dash Attack Canceling. It's like Snake's mortar slide.

 

[Deathwish238]

Not Spin Dash cancelling, silly. Dash Attack Canceling. It's like Snake's mortar slide.

i didn't know you could do that with sonic. like dash A and then immediately do his up A smash??? im confused >_<

 

[Umby]

i didn't know you could do that with sonic. like dash A and then immediately do his up A smash??? im confused >_<

Yeah, you can do it. It look like his hyphen smash after he's ran across the stage, except he can pull it out from a standstill.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I have still yet to do this dash cancel... slide... thingy. That's the main reason I didn't add it. But I might go into b-reversing a bit... I'll see.

 

[Tenki]

it does work, and he does go further, but considering the ease of hyphensmashing, it's not very practical for Sonic lol

 

[Umby]

I can do it real quick and take a replay to send to someone.

edit: And there is a SLIGHT practical use for it. Sonic has to travel a ways before he gets that huge distance from his hyphen smash. Using a Dash Attack Canceled up smash, he can travel that distance in less time.

It's no huge, but it's there.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

What's the timing for it?

 

[Umby]

Hell if I know. I can't get the muscle memory down consistently for it.

 

[Aftermath]

If you mean the dash attack -> usmash thing, you just start the dash attack, then usmash like as fast as you can. The way most people find easiest is to run, hit the cstick forward or down (to dash attack) then hit up + z in order to do the actual usmash (since you can usmash with Z and not need to go back to A really fast). Practice usmashing with Z in place, then just do it right as you cstick and you should have it.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Is it faster than the mortar slide?

 

[TwinkleToes]

^I think it is because I was able to mortar slide consistently, but when I tried to make the transition to Sonic's version it was no dice.

 

[Umby]

The button input feels like Fox's wavedash to me.

 

[memphischains]

You should point out that Sonic and wall kick after the Spring, I know it may seem obvious, but it saves you from FD's top tier ledges.

 

[Browny]

sonics dash attack to usmash cancel is just too hard and the boost you get isnt that much anyway

 

[FrostByte]

It's a pretty good spacing tool though. You can do it while walking in the opposite direction.

 

[Tenki]

Invincibility!

Put side-B's invincibility frames back on the list D:
again, it's not during the whole upward motion of the initial hop, but more like the first 10 frames or so, similar to the timing for Ike's Eruption SAF, but invincible, regardless of charge. >_>

Up-B invincibility too:
Sonic is invincible starting from the point he starts jumping, lasting while he flashes white. Spacing-wise, it's about the height of a full hop from the spring.
If you do an up-B from the main platform of Battlefield, it lasts about until he passes the top platform.
He can be hit out of it while he's spawning the spring/before he jumps.

 

[Umby]

I thought Side B was just extremely high priority, not invincibility/SA.

 

[Boxob]

I thought Side B was just extremely high priority, not invincibility/SA.

You're correct, it's just high priority. Try Side B into a DDD Fsmash, it won't work.

 

[Tenki]

It has a really small window of invincibility frames, but after that, it's just priority based on attack-charge. most people probably thought that the IF lasted for the whole upward motion and ended up getting hit by [insert projectile here]. It's true. I went through an Ike fsmash, eruption, bobomb, wolf laser... lol. Their attacks didn't get phased but Sonic went through them.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I'm not adding it back in unless i can personally verify it.

Also, I thought it was super-armor frames, not invincibility on his up-b.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

It's invincibility on the up-b. >b is weird. It's not high priority, and I don't think he takes any damage... soooo... invul? I need to get a Gecko so I can test all this stuff.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Hm, well then I'm inclined to put it under a general "invincibility" entry or something >.>
Basically I'd just note that both up-b and side-b have moments where you take no damage or stun...

EDIT: I've put up one small part of the gimp guide I've been working on... It's not finished and I haven't even put up the how-to/definition section yet but it's a start and any ideas you guys have would be good to hear.

EDIT2: Oh, and if anyone has a character they want me to get to first mention that too. I'm just going through them in alphabetical order at the moment.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Could you do Game & Watch? I've been having trouble gimping him.

 

[Aftermath]

If you're adding videos, you should put mine in for showing stutter stepping >_>

Shameless self promotion aside... wait, I have nothing to contribute to any topic at hand.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Right-o cat donning hat.

Aftermath, I would, but I don't know where to find it. Post the link -_-;

 

[Trillion]

If you could do fox or ike that would be great.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I'll do Fox first since I can easily do Falco and Wolf right afterwards. I'll get to Ike after I finish up space animals.

I'm basically done with G&W's section. I'm not sure if I want to add a general comments entry for each character, but it could prove useful. We'll see.

 

[Aftermath]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=g9PRNsTxYqo

 

[Browny]

i said it before, im pretty sure side has has infinite priority which decreases during the hop. you can pass right through a 182% lucario aura sphere in the first few frames, but after that it will hit. something with slightly less priority like samus charge shot has a longer period of time in which you can pass through. up until snakes nikita which can pass through it for pretty much the entire hop.

and how can you gimp G&W :/

 

[memphischains]

i said it before, im pretty sure side has has infinite priority which decreases during the hop. you can pass right through a 182% lucario aura sphere in the first few frames, but after that it will hit. something with slightly less priority like samus charge shot has a longer period of time in which you can pass through. up until snakes nikita which can pass through it for pretty much the entire hop.

and how can you gimp G&W :/

Game and Watch is acually reletively easy. Usually he is going to drop down below the level to use his tramp to get back up, and then float to the middle of the stage (well, this is what good G&Wes should do), but as they drop, you can do one of three things all before he activates his up b.

Jump backwords and correctly time a bair

Do a single full jump and dair before he activates (worst case you will miss and you can jump cancel the downward motion like you would anyway to get up to teh edge or you will bounce back up with him)

or you can chase him and homing attck before he really starts to drop.

 

[Tenki]

You're correct, it's just high priority. Try Side B into a DDD Fsmash, it won't work.

i said it before, im pretty sure side has has infinite priority which decreases during the hop. you can pass right through a 182% lucario aura sphere in the first few frames, but after that it will hit. something with slightly less priority like samus charge shot has a longer period of time in which you can pass through. up until snakes nikita which can pass through it for pretty much the entire hop.

Alright, I'm not an expert on priority, but isn't the case for an attack outprioritizing a projectile that there's a clank/freeze frame then the projectile gets destroyed?

If two physical attacks (just the attack hitbox, and not the player hitbox) hit each other, the one with weaker priority clangs and gets cancelled?

Well, during both up-B and side-B's invincibility, the move that gets 'outprioritized' goes on as normal. If it passes through, no clang, no freeze, then I'm pretty sure you just used its invincibility frames. If I use up-B's invincibility and go through a TL D-air, at most, the two characters will slide past each other. Toon Link won't bounce.

Since there's no freeze frames, usually, a mistimed side-B hop keeps going through until its invincibility frames run out and then it gets 'hit', just like you describe. Also, almost anything that hits/damages Snake's nikitas can go through it, since it sends it in slow motion lol

I just tested with the Dedede fsmash, and it works. His fsmash goes right through Sonic, with no freeze frames, even hitting the floor as Sonic passes through the hammer.

..okay?

...so maybe it's better described dodge frames, if not invincibility.

 

[thumbswayup]

I saw something in here earlier about jump canceling your hyphen smash or something. Could someone explain that to me again real quick?

 

[TwinkleToes]

memphis, I definitely don't think G&W is "relatively easy" if by relative you mean relative to other characters. And I think you're wrong about his recovery. If he chooses to up-b early and you weren't stage camping then he'll probably be able to get back without being harmed. Plus, when they go under the stage they usually aim for a sweet spot not a landing...

 

[thecatinthehat]

Thanks for the guide, it helps alot.
My cuz recently picked up G&W. Made me realize that I didn't know how to gimp him.

 

[Aftermath]

thumbswayup - You can jc into a cstick'd usmash, but it won't do anything. Same with running, since you'd get the same slide doing a jc usmash with the control stick or a running usmash with the cstick.

What was discussed for a bit was Sonic using his dash attack -> usmash thing (like Snake's mortar slide) to get the full slide on the usmash with very little startup space, since going into a full dash takes about a third of FD.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Sonic's USmash cancel, is the timing faster or slower than Snakes?