The Sonic Glitch/Tech/Non-obvious move list & Gimp Guide *updated 2/16*

[Tenki]

It's there.

Watch it from 00:08 since it's the closest/quickest/smoothest animation that you can watch until the 2nd spring comes out.

Pit's arm does change to the "I'M A SUPERMAN DOING A FSJ!" pose right before he gets hit, and he goes like 2-3 pixels up (videowise) before getting hit by the U-air. And it all happened in like 2-3 frames. If you keep replaying it, you'll see the little circle of Pit's right arm raise up just before he gets hit.

[edit]
I'm not going to argue for it anymore ._.; I'm convinced it's a FSJ. It would have been nice, but that's what I could see, and it will be resolved in 1-2 pages.
Good luck, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Oh wow your right. I looked at the vid frame by frame in Windows Movie Maker.
For exactly one frame, you see Pit in the FSJ "pose". After that 1 frame is when Sonic gets the hit in.
Can you believe that? 1 freakin frame. Invisible unless seen frame by frame.

 

[thumbswayup]

You just killed all my dreams.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8872/imagemwd1.jpg

'k?

 

[Napilopez]

So sad. I was pretty sure ive done this with my enemy nowhere near me. but maybe im just imagining.. *sighs*

 

[The_Dyne]

Cries for loss of a possible tech.

 

[samper]

yeah that does suck, but to be honest I'm not sure it would have been all that useful anyway. I mean, it's not like your opponent can't recover out of a Uair in time to intercept you when you do jump, Uair, UpB, Uair so it wouldn't have been a guaranteed hit. Recovery options would have been nice, but if it was like a gatling combo (or whatever the moves that chain into each other when you hit someone are called) I don't think it would have been all that useful.

...okay, so I'm in denial, but unless someone can replicate it without anyone doing the one frame FSJ there's not a lot we can do except look for the next big thing.

 

[Umby]

I've got you added, cat.

 

[Deathwish238]

umm im pretty fricken sure i did this playing against my friends pit or zelda (i forgot which one) but on an attempt to gimp him i springed up off the ground (meaning the spring stayed on the ground) and i daired missed completely and i frantically pressed up B and got back on the stage (kinda like the 2nd video) except pit/zelda was nowhere near me they had gotten back on the stage. i paused the guy and screamed OMG! but my friends didn't even notice what had happened =/

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

****. I really thought I had something.

I was playing Phoenix earlier and he got another one. Pretty confident it's a FSJ though. He also Springed up through the stage it looked like. Similar to Scarring or whatever you call that weird Wolf stage glitch. Might be worth looking into. Can't really tell if it's just hugging or not. I don't trust my eyes anymore.

Kinda pissed about the DSJ. 1 frame......

 

[TwinkleToes]

Yeah... well sucks that it wasn't quite what we hoped but it is an interesting note on fsj-ing.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I didn't know it could be canceled that quickly. Also I can't watch it frame by frame. Did it interrupt the actual attack or not? Sonic's vertical recovery is quick enough that you could probably just force it half the time. I've seen it happen 5 or 6 times now. I thought Pit was too far away to FSJ. Maybe stretching out hitboxes makes FSJ easier? If so it might be possible to FSJ on Marth's sword. Although it seems that would have been figured out by now.

I'm too tired to be typing things right now. I'm sure I just posted something horribly stupid.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

That's just the thing, FSJ cancels whatever it's hitting, unless they're on the edge. I'd really like someone to start testing this out.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I know it's dumb but I'm still REALLY hoping that it was just Pit escaping hit stun or, more likely based on my brother's style, the beginning of a Dair in an effort to get me to die. (Although he says that's just something he does with Lucario) I can't get a good enough look at the specific frame to tell if there is even the SLIGHTEST chance.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

It does look like I went through the edge, but I don't think it's useful at all. I took a snapshot of it right as it starts, so I'll send you that later. The start off of the spring jump actually seems to take place above the stage, but the spring is underneath it. Kinda weird.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Yeah it's been bugging me too.
It looks like the FSJ was cancelled by the second part of the u-air.
But how could that be true? The FSJ should have cancelled the rest of the uair. Unless the U-air prioritizes over FSJ. But if the uair prioritizes over the FSJ, then the 1 frame shouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yeah it's been bugging me too.
It looks like the FSJ was cancelled by the second part of the u-air.
But how could that be true? The FSJ should have cancelled the rest of the uair. Unless the U-air prioritizes over FSJ. But if the uair prioritizes over the FSJ, then the 1 frame shouldn't have happened in the first place.

That combined with the fact that Pit seemed to be too far to FSJ makes me think that maybe he just tried to jump away and didn't actually land a FSJ.

 

[thecatinthehat]

That combined with the fact that Pit seemed to be too far to FSJ makes me think that maybe he just tried to jump away and didn't actually land a FSJ.

Yes it's all evidence that Pit did NOT FSJ.
The only thing that that proves it was a FSJ was that one frame that Pit was in the FSJ pose.

 

[thumbswayup]

So what do we do with this? It's actually still very useful knowledge. Now when you spring u air someone, mash up b again in case he FSJ you and you can suprise him with another u air (might even be for the kill).

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yeah. It's useful regardless but I would have preferred the DSJ.

 

[Tenki]

Yeah it's been bugging me too.
It looks like the FSJ was cancelled by the second part of the u-air.
But how could that be true? The FSJ should have cancelled the rest of the uair. Unless the U-air prioritizes over FSJ. But if the uair prioritizes over the FSJ, then the 1 frame shouldn't have happened in the first place.

What if u-air is one of those moves (eg, hanging from ledge w/ invincibility, shielding, spring animation) that doesn't get cancelled by FSJ? FSJ isn't just an attack, where if it doesn't "out prioritize" the other move, it doesn't work (assuming it's not cancelled by a hit like in the vide) - it's also a recovery, so regardless of if the other person gets stunned or not, they'll jump.

That combined with the fact that Pit seemed to be too far to FSJ makes me think that maybe he just tried to jump away and didn't actually land a FSJ.

but..

Sorry, it was a FSJ.

Look at Pit's right arm just before he gets hit by the first Spring -> uair.

Compare it with Pit's right arm when he's simply double jumping.

And compare it with Pit's right arm when he actually FSJ's someone.

Yeah, sorry =\

Yes it's all evidence that Pit did NOT FSJ.
The only thing that that proves it was a FSJ was that one frame that Pit was in the FSJ pose.

What if FSJ and all its related statuses (?) like:
-height boost (user)
-"hit"/regain recovery move (opponent)

occur at the same time as the first frame?

Then one frame is all you need for it to happen.

ah well ._.;

 

[InterimOfZeal]

What if FSJ and all its related statuses (?) like:
-height boost (user)
-"hit"/regain recovery move (opponent)

occur at the same time as the first frame?

Then one frame is all you need for it to happen.

ah well ._.;

Almost everything comes out in no less than 4 frames. If FSJ doesn't cancel a move, then all that happens is the person that tried it gets hit, nothing more, nothing less. It's like parrying in SFIII. You move forward or down at the right time, you just did a no lag, no damage block. You do it at the wrong time, and Chun Li just Senretsu'ed you to hell.

We really need a frame-data sheet. I'm thinking about getting a Gecko, just for this.

 

[Browny]

more semi-interesting info

We all know you can cancel the lag from d-air if you use it from a certain height, but most people cancel it with a shield + roll/grab since its not exactly an instant cancel, you cant jab out of the landing animation instantly. however if you use d-air from really high up (two jumps and spring is the minimum i found) and you cancel the landing lag with a n-air, you can cstick smash pretty much instantly (any attack works, stutter-stepped fsmash too). n-air has such a tiny amount of landing lag (like lucarios n-air) but it seems to me that if you have a lot of downward momentum when you land, it removes it completely.

oh and some other strange stuffs

side b can reflect ice climbers projectiles, but it doesnt do any damage when it hits them :/

sorry if i posted this part before somewhere but i did a little more testing regaring the d-air spike.

ive been practicing A LOT with this. So far it looks like the outside of his leg causes the semi spike, but only for a short length of the d-air animation. unlike other characters spikes, where the small white glow represents the spikes hitbox, sonics white glow appears on the opposite side of his body as to where the spike occurs. heres a screenie of it

this is just before he dairs to the right side of the screen. hitting someone with the white glow doesnt spike at all. however if you hit enemies with the outside of leg that glows (in that pic, he will bring his leg down and to the right, such that the spiking leg is the one shooting downwards), between approximately 1/5 and 2/5 of the dairs length, it semi-spikes. heres a shoddily drawn pic describing what im on about

If that hits, its seriously strong. i could only test it against CPU's tonight, but if i hit any character without a good recovery (marth, space animals, mario, even TL lol) while off the stage at around 70% it knocks them so far off the stage they will never get back. oh yeah, this used as an edgeguard should also be used with roll-hugging. i dont know where the thread is, but bascially once you d-air them off the stage, spring back up and prepare to edgehog by rolling into the ledge, then tapping down-diagonal away from the stage. its MUCH more easier to time the invinciblity frames than it is by simply edgehoggin, fast falling then jumping back on.

 

[Tenki]

*It also does a semi-spike in either direction- it all depends on which side your opponent is. So if he's on the left side of the hitbox, he'll be hit left (even if you're going right).

spring-dair-spam is really funny, especially when someone tries to hit you and misses cause of the spring, just to get hit by a semispike Dair XD

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I don't know why you keep posting that the side b reflects Ice Climber's projectile.. Most things will. Hell, your shield will.

 

[TwinkleToes]

It doesn't really have to be the "outside" part of the leg to get the low-send with dair, but it does help reduce your opponent's chances of DI'ing behind you and getting knocked back towards the stage.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Double spring trick doesn't seem to work. I cannot pull it off at all.

side B has high priority not invincibility frames. CORRECTIONS NOW!

please

 

[Tenki]

F-air spike/KO power?

Can anyone investigate F-air spike?

I've knocked people diagonal/downwards, but usually over level, so they bounce off the floor from about SH height (midair).

Also, there seems to be certain times when it has insane forward knockback, and times when.. it doesn't.

If anyone can figure out the mystery of f-air, we could have the equivalent of G&W's judgement hammer. lol

 

[Browny]

as for the f-air having insane forward knockback, i believe that is only when the last hit occurs. in my edgeguarding demo vid quite a few times i pursued enemies off the stage with f-airs and if they only got hit by the fianl hitbox, it sent them into the wall

 

[TwinkleToes]

Double spring trick doesn't seem to work. I cannot pull it off at all.

side B has high priority not invincibility frames. CORRECTIONS NOW!

please

Yeah I figured this was the case but I was too lazy to test something this insignificant out myself.

I removed the entry completely since it's essentially debunked info.

 

[Napilopez]

I don't think you should remove it, I find it incredibly useful.

And it doesnt have invincibility frames? If its not invincibility, it really is mega high priority. I think the reason why they say its not invincibility frames is because some attacks have hitboxes that last longer than the SideB's invincibility frames. But dudes, I've had a Bobomb thrown at me, and used a sideB and just went thru it like nothing while the bomb exploded on my face.

 

[Browny]

i say it has infinte priority at the immediate start up, and drops slowly off until it hits the ground. lucarios 182% aura sphere is the highest priority thing in the game afaik, and there is literally only about a 10 frame window through which sonic can pass through it unharmed. then against something slightly weaker like samus' full charged shot it has higher priority for a little longer, then when you get to things like the nikita it wall pass through it for almost the entire hop.

 

[Exia 00]

omg! thats great!
but that strutter tech tutorial was kindda confusing.

 

[Umby]

omg! thats great!
but that strutter tech tutorial was kindda confusing.

Stutter x 1: Tap Left, Smash Right.
Stutter x 2: Tap Right, Tap Left, Smash Right.

Hence why GCN controllers are superior.

 

[Napilopez]

Works totally fine with me using the WiiChuck.

 

[Tenki]

Stutter x1 can be done without c-stick, done old-school style (just analog and attack) by tapping back/forwards really quickly.

no idea how to do Stutter x2 that way though :[
----------
-I can't get down-b spinshotting to work, but btw, side-B spinshot works with the attack button, as well as the jump button.

-Infinite jump..? Doesn't exactly work the same as Bowser's though... Bowser's IJ leaves you in an infinite 'second jump' state as long as you keep doing it while Sonic's just keeps you hopping with first jump, I think.

 

[TwinkleToes]

^You're right that it's not the same as Bowser's but the main difference is really that the low landing lag makes it a lot less necessary to utilize the infinite jump for Sonic. But the fact that it's an attack is somewhat more useful and can possibly have some mind-game potential.

Napilopez, I removed the entry because it didn't fit; I'm not arguing whether the information is useful or not. The info became too general when it just fell into the "priority" category. Especially since you don't have to do anything to activate it.

 

[Napilopez]

While I do see your reasoning ToesthatTwinkle, I still think of it as important information any new or old Sonic user should know, after all it was through this very same thread that I learned of it. I don't mean to tell you what to do on your own thread, just thought that it should be red-included because I consider it a "non-obvious" aspect. I think its hilarious when I play online and people are shocked by me flying threw there projectiles when they would normally stop a spindash.

As a sidenote about the SideB, I often effectively use it as a counterattack at close distances, lol. For a generic example, Ike fsmashes, and obviously I can see it coming from a miile away, so I use SideB, am unaffected by the smash attack and proceed to whip butt with Sonic's quills of doom.

Great guide nevertheless.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Twinkle Toes: You should link videos to the techniques on your first post of this thread. For spin dash cancel you can use this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJe_-m8zH_Q
You can also link them to this for Sonic's recovery, and homing stall. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-4DJNVXDtE&feature=related

 

[TwinkleToes]

Napilopez, I'll think about it. I guess there's not a really compelling reason to not have it in but I plan on adding a lot of other stuff later so I just wanted to keep this to really non-obvious stuff like stutter stepping and such.

CaliburChamp, I was actually thinking of doing that before but I wasn't too sure how I wanted to go about doing that. I guess I'll start attaching videos to the entries.

EDIT: I know there are a lot more videos than I've posted up but I can't find them all >.>

If you guys could help me collect the videos of these techs together it would be a great help.