Life
Smash Hero
Fascinating. Is this possible on other transforming stages, like Delfino? Or maybe the Pokemon Stadiums as the platforms rise up?
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The Sonic Boards Community Guide (Reformat) - General/Moveset
- Thread starter Kinzer
- Start date
with proper timing it might be. the trouble is the platform has to rise fast enough to catch sonic while he is also rising. Considering i've never had it work on frigate's vertical moving platform, I doubt slow rising transformations like ps1 and ps1 and delfino would work. I imagine it might be possible on YI ghost platforms if you get really lucky during those 3 frames.
Kinzer
Mammy
Huge (re)formatting update.
I'll post all the updates in the changelog after I shower and, and I want to talk about what I have planned for the future.
If you want to take a look, I've taken the liberty of doing a massive overhaul, you'll notice a lot of things have been moved, fixed, and a little bit of removal. Lots of punctuational and grammatical fixes, corrected inconsistencies in the BBCode, blah blah blah.
I need to go pee too, I'm not holding it in any longer BRB if I haven't already said it.
I'll post all the updates in the changelog after I shower and, and I want to talk about what I have planned for the future.
If you want to take a look, I've taken the liberty of doing a massive overhaul, you'll notice a lot of things have been moved, fixed, and a little bit of removal. Lots of punctuational and grammatical fixes, corrected inconsistencies in the BBCode, blah blah blah.
I need to go pee too, I'm not holding it in any longer BRB if I haven't already said it.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
will this ever be finished?
Kinzer
Mammy
This~!
But not only that, but it kind of takes a while before final versions.
It also doesn't help I'm not in college. All my freetime I had in HS, what a complete waste it was now that I look back upon it.
The next chance I have to work on this will probably be Christmas Break at this rate. If everyone I knew then and know now was in college then I suppose now the jokes on me when I think people in general were/are nothing but lazy.
Kinzer
Mammy
bamreloaded 5:34 pm
Can u check the max advantage we get from soft hit Nair. And check falco's ftilt frame data in terms of advantage? Also could u check Marths first hit ti
pper Nair on shield? Im making a unified frame trap compendium so I need to know these things. Thanks again kinzer.
I think u can do this by today or tomorrow or whenever? Im trying to get all this brawl stuff out asap.
Can u check the max advantage we get from soft hit Nair. And check falco's ftilt frame data in terms of advantage? Also could u check Marths first hit ti
pper Nair on shield? Im making a unified frame trap compendium so I need to know these things. Thanks again kinzer.
I think u can do this by today or tomorrow or whenever? Im trying to get all this brawl stuff out asap.
Don't worry, you're not missing anything by not opening the collapse box. This is just so I can have somewhere to look for it so I won't forget.
If anyone else knows this, feel free to answer, but I doubt that's the case, so bleh.
I promise that I'll do one big overhaul this December. That's when the semester ends and maybe college students will go out on break then. Until then, this crap has taken up all the free time I wasted during my High School years. It's unreal.
I'm so sorry I haven't gotten anything done fellas, I promise I haven't gone anywhere and won't be going anywhere until all information concerning Sonic in Brawl is up.
DiSQO_BuNNY
Smash Lord
You got this kinzer.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
Okay Since Kinzer hasnt had the time to discuss platform pressure I am going to move this article by TKD in here because we can do everything spoken of because we have a grounded grab as well. Also note that our SH nair is very good at hitting feet when people are in shield and combats the scenario if they AD through.
NOTE: I am just taking TKD statements from his thread and converting it to fit our character. I added somethings but the majority of it is from him. Its all tested and approved for though.
Things you can do while standing on platforms, from above the opponent:
Falco's SH nair can be shield-grabbed very easily, immediately after blocking its first hit, since its second hit has no hitstun. You can do this from Smashville's platform as Falco's short-hop is high and his bodybox shares space with the hitbox. This means as long as he can reach, you can bait it to do this.
Falco's SH bair is punishable from platform blocking, but only if you're very sharp and read and powerblock it.
Both Falco's SH bair and nair are an easy punish if you platform drop air-dodge through them, most commonly with either ftilt, grab or dash attack if nothing else reaches I'd guess).
Lucario's SH fair can be shield-grabbed or usmashed from block depending on how the opponent spaces Lucario's body. You can do it as long as he's in range, which is easy to tell.
If you're out of range and Lucario whiffs his SH fair while you're on a platform, you're free to dash usmash him while he still has height from the hop.
I'm sure Lucario's SH uair is punishable like this too.
This is one of those things that are possible because of Sonic's low grab level. You can walk into Snake's direction and shield-grab his utilt if he does it. I say to walk because I've attempted this without, and the utilt has too much shieldpush for it.
Another thing you can do vs this move is short-hop from the platform on prediction to Snake's utilt (as a bait), and fast-fall (through the platform) dair to punish if he does it. It's a harder and safer bait than blocking above him. NOTE: maybe there are more moves with lots of cool-down to do this to, for example maybe marth's utilt, definitely his usmash; although that character can actually reach your short-hop bait with an attack
If you're blocking Snake's nair, you can shield-grab (maybe usmash too) inbetween hits. Just input the command immediately after blocking any of the kicks (except the last one of course).
Based on some TKD info our fair MIGHT counters Olimar's uair if you fast-fall it (the reason for the fast-fall is that Oli's uair wins if enough hits clash; don't remember if it's 2 or 3).
nair counter usmash anyway. Yellow usmash, possibly. uair counter aerials through disjoints though.
Fall through platform + air-dodge is an easy counter to Oli's uair because of how long he commits to it.
Fall through platform + air-dodge also counters Kirby's SH uair, G&W's nair...many short hop aerials, probably.
Ice Climber's uair is an easy shieldgrab (can't remember if it's possible in Smashville though), unless they delay and do falling uair.Sonic's quick fthrow on the main climber separates them well.
Donkey's SH bair is likely shield-grabbable from platforms (must confirm), though maybe not Smashville's.
Wolf's uair is probably shield-grabbable, though I don't think Wolf players would do this often.
If characters with high short-hops (like Falco, Marth and Lucario) empty short-hop (to delay an aerial or for whatever reason), you can shield-grab, walk up and grab, dtilt, ftilt, even usmash OoS( lol)
Our uair maybe shield-grabbable as well. I do think our utilt and its multiple hits and range is really good when it comes to shield poking as well as usmash nair and fair which cant be grabbed
NOTE: I am just taking TKD statements from his thread and converting it to fit our character. I added somethings but the majority of it is from him. Its all tested and approved for though.
Things you can do while standing on platforms, from above the opponent:
Falco's SH nair can be shield-grabbed very easily, immediately after blocking its first hit, since its second hit has no hitstun. You can do this from Smashville's platform as Falco's short-hop is high and his bodybox shares space with the hitbox. This means as long as he can reach, you can bait it to do this.
Falco's SH bair is punishable from platform blocking, but only if you're very sharp and read and powerblock it.
Both Falco's SH bair and nair are an easy punish if you platform drop air-dodge through them, most commonly with either ftilt, grab or dash attack if nothing else reaches I'd guess).
Lucario's SH fair can be shield-grabbed or usmashed from block depending on how the opponent spaces Lucario's body. You can do it as long as he's in range, which is easy to tell.
If you're out of range and Lucario whiffs his SH fair while you're on a platform, you're free to dash usmash him while he still has height from the hop.
I'm sure Lucario's SH uair is punishable like this too.
This is one of those things that are possible because of Sonic's low grab level. You can walk into Snake's direction and shield-grab his utilt if he does it. I say to walk because I've attempted this without, and the utilt has too much shieldpush for it.
Another thing you can do vs this move is short-hop from the platform on prediction to Snake's utilt (as a bait), and fast-fall (through the platform) dair to punish if he does it. It's a harder and safer bait than blocking above him. NOTE: maybe there are more moves with lots of cool-down to do this to, for example maybe marth's utilt, definitely his usmash; although that character can actually reach your short-hop bait with an attack
If you're blocking Snake's nair, you can shield-grab (maybe usmash too) inbetween hits. Just input the command immediately after blocking any of the kicks (except the last one of course).
Based on some TKD info our fair MIGHT counters Olimar's uair if you fast-fall it (the reason for the fast-fall is that Oli's uair wins if enough hits clash; don't remember if it's 2 or 3).
nair counter usmash anyway. Yellow usmash, possibly. uair counter aerials through disjoints though.
Fall through platform + air-dodge is an easy counter to Oli's uair because of how long he commits to it.
Fall through platform + air-dodge also counters Kirby's SH uair, G&W's nair...many short hop aerials, probably.
Ice Climber's uair is an easy shieldgrab (can't remember if it's possible in Smashville though), unless they delay and do falling uair.Sonic's quick fthrow on the main climber separates them well.
Donkey's SH bair is likely shield-grabbable from platforms (must confirm), though maybe not Smashville's.
Wolf's uair is probably shield-grabbable, though I don't think Wolf players would do this often.
If characters with high short-hops (like Falco, Marth and Lucario) empty short-hop (to delay an aerial or for whatever reason), you can shield-grab, walk up and grab, dtilt, ftilt, even usmash OoS( lol)
Our uair maybe shield-grabbable as well. I do think our utilt and its multiple hits and range is really good when it comes to shield poking as well as usmash nair and fair which cant be grabbed
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
No we cant Tesh, theyre too low I believe. If u want I can test that, but a person would be an idiot just to FH into u like that which is what would probably be required for the majority of the cast. Maybe DJs from multi jump characters perhaps, but either way shield grab is wayyy better. Usmash OoS also drags ppl upward so thats pretty cool vs high sh characters.
Kinzer
Mammy
Finally updated this.
>MFW Holy mother of God.
I realized I copped out and didn't post the real essential stuff (save for move set tallies, which TBH is more general knowledge than Sonic), but I would just love to see someone besides myself TRY to make this guide as straightforward, informed, detailed, crystal-clear, and blabbity blah blah as possible.
If I didn't have to look out for anybody but myself, I swear man...
The log is in the second post. This is just to let everyone know I'm done this time around I guess.
For any of you that are actually reading my updates, my logs, and checking for inconsistencies, thank you. You're the reason I haven't given up on this damn project yet. I'll try to update this again later, and I promise I'll make it sweet for all the verteran'd players while stillsexually appealing to the newcomers... should any of them actually be reading this, I dunno.
If any of you notice anything that isn't missing and hasn't already been addressed prior in this thread, please let me know. I'm always open to make this guide look better, if that means condensing write-ups, adding information that escapes even myself, it's always appreciated. Believe me, I probably wouldn't be here if I didn't enjoy seeing others benefit from it in whatever way possible.
I'm sure you're aware of the drill by now, yes? Hype for "Sonic 'Community' Guide beta Version 0.23" I guess.
>MFW Holy mother of God.
I realized I copped out and didn't post the real essential stuff (save for move set tallies, which TBH is more general knowledge than Sonic), but I would just love to see someone besides myself TRY to make this guide as straightforward, informed, detailed, crystal-clear, and blabbity blah blah as possible.
If I didn't have to look out for anybody but myself, I swear man...
The log is in the second post. This is just to let everyone know I'm done this time around I guess.
For any of you that are actually reading my updates, my logs, and checking for inconsistencies, thank you. You're the reason I haven't given up on this damn project yet. I'll try to update this again later, and I promise I'll make it sweet for all the verteran'd players while still
If any of you notice anything that isn't missing and hasn't already been addressed prior in this thread, please let me know. I'm always open to make this guide look better, if that means condensing write-ups, adding information that escapes even myself, it's always appreciated. Believe me, I probably wouldn't be here if I didn't enjoy seeing others benefit from it in whatever way possible.
I'm sure you're aware of the drill by now, yes? Hype for "Sonic 'Community' Guide beta Version 0.23" I guess.
Life
Smash Hero
*hugs Kinzer*
BTW, I'm being super-nitpicky, but "SD" = "Self Destruct".
BTW, I'm being super-nitpicky, but "SD" = "Self Destruct".
Kinzer
Mammy
Duly noted.
That's no excuse though. This guide is suppose to be informative for both the newcomers and the vets. The goal is that everybody can learn something from this and if necessary, reinvent their (Sonic) game.
Zenokidz
Smash Cadet
I would really like to see some visual examples of some of sonic gimmicks working on certin characters and there reliability,it would be good to know what you can and cant do in certin situations too.
Chis
Finally a legend
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
Can we finish out the moveset discussion? Side-B and Down-B are still left and nobody has even touched this thread in a month.
Kinzer
Mammy
Please allow me one final update during summer vacation, and then we can move/on give this thread to someone else.
I have big plans. You just need to give me time to take care of college stuff first.
Edit: That's about one month from now.
However, that doesn't stop anyone else from contributing ideas or new stuff. Anything I can't come up with myself that some other brilliant mind has is certainly appreciated.
I have big plans. You just need to give me time to take care of college stuff first.
Edit: That's about one month from now.
However, that doesn't stop anyone else from contributing ideas or new stuff. Anything I can't come up with myself that some other brilliant mind has is certainly appreciated.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
This thread is for you Tesh.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
There are plenty of new sonic's they just aren't on SWF. MOST, if not all of them exist on AiB.
DKMikey
Smash Journeyman
Well, I recently decided to secondary Sonic. But I'm worthless since I don't go to tournaments anyway (parents won't let me go, so I guess I will have to wait 5 months till college). Either way, any updated information would be helpful.
Unsound_Shinobi
Smash Apprentice
I'm not necessarily a new Sonic as I've played him since the game came out, but I am new to competitive play, and to Smash Boards, so knowing the frame data, especially the 3 frame jab, and the jab lock info seems like it will come in handy. Anything I can do to help out? I'd definitely like to see the AT info updated I don't know many (if any) of his advanced techniques.
Unsound_Shinobi
Smash Apprentice
Okay, well only main things I saw that I do that didn't seem to be recommended in the OP is that d-tilt seems to work really well OoS, as well as the u-tilt, and both combo very well, those are probably habits I picked up from Zelda and Pit though. One of my favorite approaches at low-mid% is dash into sliding shield to take their counter attack, then u-tilt OoS into uair.
peeup
Smash Lord
Ummm I'd love to pick up Sonic and it'd be sweet to have that section on advanced techniques aaaaand also the one on basic playstyle a little more filled in.
TheAwesomefroggy
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2012
- Messages
- 345
Is there any specific reason we haven't filled in the seemingly easy AT section yet?
Also, one idea I have is to make ATs like homing stall or using HA till you star ko under some sort of fun-fact sub-section
Also, one idea I have is to make ATs like homing stall or using HA till you star ko under some sort of fun-fact sub-section
JMan8891
Halfrican-American
Well HA stall is banned. DQ'd is no good... while HA spamming for a star KO is... next to impossible in how unviable that tactic would be. Someone can dodge and punish, killing you for trying that, lol
Life
Smash Hero
HA stall isn't banned, it's just useless against most characters and on most stages, because recoveries are good enough in this game to go under the stage and hit you out of it. Stalling is making the game unplayable, which HA under the stage doesn't do.
Although ask your TO first because it's a pretty widespread misconception.
Although ask your TO first because it's a pretty widespread misconception.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Im pretty sure hes talking about 2 sonics intentionally HAing each other until they both die. Like the luigi ladder
TheAwesomefroggy
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2012
- Messages
- 345
@Jman: I didn't mean using it in tournament, just that you can put it under some fun-fact subsection incase people want to try it. Oh, and don't forget to add that Kirby can do it too.
@Life: It could work against characters like Bowser, so maybe it's character situational?
@KID: I was talking about that, yes, but what Life was talking about was HAing under a stage like FD.
@Life: It could work against characters like Bowser, so maybe it's character situational?
@KID: I was talking about that, yes, but what Life was talking about was HAing under a stage like FD.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
next time you play a bowser in tournament, let me know.
TheAwesomefroggy
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2012
- Messages
- 345
wait, so did life mean hit you out of it and then recover? cuz that's what I thought he meant.