The Sheik Compendium of Advanced Techniques, Combos, and Tricks (Wii U)

[?.?]

^ Thanks @ Tristan_win . I don't know, I really just lost interest... I might still be around the boards a bit, I'm just comitting to Melee as of now. But thanks for ensuring me credit, I really did work hard on this.

No problem, @ Othayuni . You seem like a cool guy.

I left the Skype group because I don't have anything to contribute anymore, so feel free to add in another guy if you feel like it.

Sad to see you go but I think this will be the fate of smash 4... It's a game riddled with auto-combos and options you have to choose over others... I feel most people will get bored and go back to melee... My training partner is getting there and I've thought about it as well.

 

[Jackson]

Sad to see you go but I think this will be the fate of smash 4... It's a game riddled with auto-combos and options you have to choose over others... I feel most people will get bored and go back to melee... My training partner is getting there and I've thought about it as well.

Agreed. I also dislike the effectiveness of rolls; that in particular really bothers me. And thanks @Envoid .

 

[saviorslegacy]

Agreed. I also dislike the effectiveness of rolls; that in particular really bothers me. And thanks @Envoid .

I agree, rolls annoy me.



Here are 2 new techs.
Get up attack stage spike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBMnlLzd_xg
I think the first person to find this was virg.

Aaaaaaaand this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJBlfOtRTgM
Do not ask me how to perform it I have no clue.

 

[?.?]

Agreed. I also dislike the effectiveness of rolls; that in particular really bothers me. And thanks @Envoid .

Really? virg figured that getup nonsense before me? Odd I didn't think anyone had even heard about it before I told you about it in the general discussion thread. Still odd it works, that hitbox must be wack.

 

[Zef]

how do i cancel needles into other specials in the air? i don't wanna airdodge after

 

[_Tree]

I think this will be the fate of smash 4... It's a game riddled with auto-combos and options you have to choose over others... I feel most people will get bored and go back to melee

I agree. I do see this game eventually being dropped for Melee and PM in the future. I'm enjoying it while it lasts though.

On another note...This might be a long shot, but does anyone have a list of all the moves Sheik can crouch under? I understand it's probably not something that's been researched all that much, but asking is worth a shot at least.

 

[Othayuni]

how do i cancel needles into other specials in the air? i don't wanna airdodge after

Press R and then immediately B, like "roll" from R to B; there should be practically no time between the button presses. If you're inputting a direction for a special, I suggest having the direction already held before you press R.

I agree. I do see this game eventually being dropped for Melee and PM in the future. I'm enjoying it while it lasts though.

On another note...This might be a long shot, but does anyone have a list of all the moves Sheik can crouch under? I understand it's probably not something that's been researched all that much, but asking is worth a shot at least.

Heck with all this! I'm sm4sh 4 l4fe. This is my favorite smash yet. -Personally-. I'll still be here when y'all are gone.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I agree. I do see this game eventually being dropped for Melee and PM in the future. I'm enjoying it while it lasts though.

I think this game will live. It is already doing a lot better than Brawl did upon its release. IMO the reasons are....
#1 The game favors a more aggressive style of play.
#2 The game has a faster pace than Brawl.
#3 The characters are a lot more balanced (this one.. this one right here... **** you MK).
#4 There are actually combos this time around. Which makes the game over all more enjoyable.
#5 A lot less gimmicky forms of doing damage. I am looking at you IC's and Sheik.

As a bonus we will be getting DLC characters to help stir up the meta game.

 

[_Tree]

Heck with all this! I'm sm4sh 4 l4fe. This is my favorite smash yet. -Personally-. I'll still be here when y'all are gone.

Heh, I do LIKE Smash 4, but I just don't see it living as long as Melee or PM. I like it a lot more than Brawl as well, if not for all the reasons Saviors listed. I think that it's simply not as competitively friendly as Melee or PM, due to the lack of big, extended combos and technical depth. That being said, that's why I play Sheik. She definitely feels the most like a Melee character, and because she's arguably the most technical character in the game in terms of techniques she can be flashy as well (which I ADORE).

 

[Tristan_win]

The first Sheik who can manage to get this to work will earn 1 Sheikah medal

I just want to know if it's even possible for Sheik.

 

[_Tree]

The first Sheik who can manage to get this to work will earn 1 Sheikah medal

No fair! I'm just about to sleep...
I'm placing bets on that it is though.

 

[FSK]

Have any of you messed around with fthrow -> RAR Bair? Cause I can get it to true combo up to atleast 140% (even up to 170% on some chars) and it seems like opponent DI will only make it a 50/50 death setup. It seems to work on all characters as well.

Sometimes it is better to double jump the bair. It usually just kills if you grab the near the ledge of a stage as well so keep that in mind if you decide to try it out.

 

[Wasserwipf]

The first Sheik who can manage to get this to work will earn 1 Sheikah medal
I just want to know if it's even possible for Sheik.

"Never wanted to dance with nobody but you!"

But really, is that it?

 

[saviorslegacy]

 

[Syde7]

Just wanted to throw this out there (my apologies if its been mentioned) but I kind of took the idea of BF'ing off the SV/T&C balloons and thought about some other stages. Virtually any stage that has some sort of structure, esp. with a hurtbox can be BF'd onto/off of. The one I played around with most was Castle Siege and the 2nd transformation with the statues.

There's some great, creative mixup options for BF there, due to the heights and placements of the statues and other platforms. You can BF between statues (hitting one, then the next) and then onto an opponent on one of the upper right/left platforms; you can BF from one statue to the other statue's platform (if you choke the BF you can actually hit with the upper swing of the BF kick, while remaining pretty safe underneath the actual platform); you can BF off of the outside (side closest to the walkoffs) backward onto an opponent.

Name it what you will, but I call it structure bouncing.
-------------------

Tangentially related, I think this mixup option, as well as the walled edges on 1st transformation that allow for BF, wallcling, walljump shenanigans, in conjunction with the platforms that are great heights for U-smash and BF Ledge Flips (on the right and left platforms on 1st transformation) make it a decent CP stage for Sheik in the event Battlefield gets banned in a set.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Pretty sure CS gets banned a lot due to transforms and walk-off. Duck Hunt on the other hand...

 

[Tristan_win]

Credit goes to @NinjaLink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeIHRwaql-A&list

This is from highest to lowest in height when trumped.

Fox
Pikachu/Greninja/Megaman
Sheik/Falco
Mario/Metaknight/Olimar/Dr. Mario
Bowser Jr/Charizard
Luigi/Kirby/Jigglypuff/Pacman
Wario/Toon Link/Duck Hunt/Ness/Villager/Rob
G&W/Sonic
Marth/Lucina
Yoshi/ZSS
Peach/Link/Diddy/Pit/Dark Pit
Robin/Mac/Lucario/Wii Fit/Shulk
Palutena
Bowser/Falcon
Rosalina/Zelda/Ike
Dedede
DK/Ganon/Samus

Trumped is the name of the action when you 'knock' someone off the ledge by grabbing it after them.

To put this info to good use I believe everyone on Peach level and below can not be punish with a double jump Bair from ledge due to them getting trumped too low. Of course the Bair isn't guaranteed from a trump but you wont even be able to hit even if they do nothing if they are Peach, link, diddy, pit, robin, mac, lucario, wii fit, shulk, palutena, bowser, falcon, rosalina, zelda ike, dedede, dk, ganon, samus.

Fast fall from the ledge into double jump bair could still work but it's much riskier (dair) and of course it takes more time to preform then simple letting go of the ledge by pressing away into double jump bair.

 

[ArikadoSD]

There is a combo that I've been using lately; it's definitely not a true combo (i think) but it works often and when it does it's hella sweet, literally.

Fthrow into up smash, if you do it correctly/time it right then you'll hit them in usmash's sweetspot. This is a lot easier to do in earlier percentages but it is doable in higher percentages as well, I've even used it as a kill move before when people expect a fair string after the fthrow and either DI away from/near sheik or air dodge instantly, if you get right underneath them and do an up smash it'll often sweetspot and the sensation of getting it is literally sweet.

I haven't looked at it in-depth but I trust amazing people like @ Tristan_win and other 'researchers' to test it out!

sorry for the lack of videos but I just got my WiiU and it doesn't have an SD card so I can't save replays lol

 

[Tristan_win]

There is a combo that I've been using lately; it's definitely not a true combo (i think) but it works often and when it does it's hella sweet, literally.

Fthrow into up smash, if you do it correctly/time it right then you'll hit them in usmash's sweetspot. This is a lot easier to do in earlier percentages but it is doable in higher percentages as well, I've even used it as a kill move before when people expect a fair string after the fthrow and either DI away from/near sheik or air dodge instantly, if you get right underneath them and do an up smash it'll often sweetspot and the sensation of getting it is literally sweet.

I haven't looked at it in-depth but I trust amazing people like @ Tristan_win and other 'researchers' to test it out!

sorry for the lack of videos but I just got my WiiU and it doesn't have an SD card so I can't save replays lol

So your theory is Sheik can combo Fthrow into a usmash in the low percents if they DI away? I'm assuming Sheik is dashing forward into the usmash to get this to work.

Training mode say: Huh. I wasn't expecting that.
I got it to combo on Fox with no DI from 0-60% after some brief testing. So... this does combo. Fox will most likely have the highest range due to how fast he falls

Thank you for saying something.

I'm unsure how much DI defeats this though, let me check.

edit: So I'm having a a bit of trouble getting this to work if they DI away. I don't think it's impossible but it requires you to buffer dash and then correctly gauge the distance Sheik needs to travel before sliding into usmash. Here's the thing though, this does 3% more then fthrow into bouncing fish but requires a lot more skill. ._.

So...Why not just bouncing fish and extend the range as needed?

edit: Since I said this I've given this another look into and now I use it in almost every match I play. Unlike Bouncing fish this works 0-10%ish on everyone if they DI away, it does more damage 3% which I already knew but the main reason why I change my opinion on this move was because of where it puts my enemy. Putting your opponent directly above you is a very profitable position for Sheik and can allow you to follow up the usmash very easily. It's just the better option over bf if they DI away.

 

[BigHairyFart]

So your theory is Sheik can combo Fthrow into a usmash in the low percents if they DI away? I'm assuming Sheik is dashing forward into the usmash to get this to work.

Training mode say: Huh. I wasn't expecting that.
I got it to combo on Fox with no DI from 0-60% after some brief testing. So... this does combo. Fox will most likely have the highest range due to how fast he falls

Thank you for saying something.

I'm unsure how much DI defeats this though, let me check.

On battlefield you can do something similar. If you've been doing the D-Throw/U-Air chain a lot, and the opponent knows it, then you can do a D-throw to get them onto BF's lower platforms. People tend to mash airdodge, so if they land like that, you can get a small charge on your tipper U-Smash.

 

[Tristan_win]

This info isn't really useful unless your testing. Everything was done in VS mode so decay could be included in results

Spoiler

List of rising percents
1% 1 Long range needle
2% 1 jab 1
3% 1 grab hit, 2 jab 1
4% 1 Ftilt
5% 1 jab 1/2, 1 uthrow, 3 jab 1,
6% 2 grab hit, 1 dthrow,, 1 dash attack
7% 1 fthrow, 1 bthrow, 1 jab 1/2 into jab 1, 2 ftilt
8% 3 grab hit,1 grab hit into uthrow,
9% 1 grab hit into dthrow, 2 jab 1/2
10% 1 grab hit into fthrow
11% 4 grab hit, 2 grab hit into uthrow, 3 Ftilt
12% 2 grab hit into dthrow
13% 5 grab hit, 2 grab hit into fthrow, 3 grab hit into uthrow,
14% 4 Ftilt, 2 grab hit into dthrow into jab
15% 6 grab hit 3 grab hit into dthrow,
16% 3 grab hit into fthrow, 4 grab hit into uthrow
17% 7 grab hit, 4 grab hit into dthrow, , 5 Ftilt
18% 4 grab hit into fthrow, 3 grab hit into fthrow into 1 jab
19% 8 grab hit, 6 Ftilt, 4 grab hit into dthrow into 1 jab
20% 9 grab hit, 5 grab hit into fthrow,
21% 6 grab hit into dthrow
22% 10 grab hit, 6 grab hit into fthrow
23% 8 grab hit into uthrow
24% 11 grab hit
25% 12 grab hit

 

[SplashYoureWet]

Arial Needles have the ability to combo into bouncing fish mid-high %.
I remember seeing LoF False do it @ Xanadu. I've done it myself a few times, but have not tested too make sure its a "true combo".

 

[BigHairyFart]

Arial Needles have the ability to combo into bouncing fish mid-high %.
I remember seeing LoF False do it @ Xanadu. I've done it myself a few times, but have not tested too make sure its a "true combo".

I don't believe it's ever a true combo, but it's damn good for securing your enemies stock.

 

[Jackson]

I'm glad that Absol took over the thread, he's a good and reliable guy. Now i can peacefully watch from the sidelines

 

[Opana]

So, if you bouncing fish towards a stage like bf or fd I'm sure you know you'll bounce back up and snap to the ledge. However, holding down ignores the ledge, which again I'm sure most know. Utilizing these tigether though, this allows you to hit with the other kick.

Now this bit here works across as far as I know every character, just not every special. If you come to a running stop at a ledge, you can use a special to do pretty much the smallest bboost possible. This combined with needles allows you to fall down and cancel into bouncing fish for the above or towards a properly aligned enemy. You can use vanish and use it right in front of the ledge, usure if the hit box comes out but if not the invincible frames would be great for ledge trumping. Using the nade does nothing, unless you use it at the stage and reverse it back to the ledge, making you toss the nade offstage and allowing you to grab the ledge. Using bouncing fish produces either no boost or little boost in momentum. Also while on the subject needles can bbost far for interesting bouncing fish set ups.

Also, if you couldn't tell I utilize needle canceling extensively, and find it useful out of a wall jump at bf or fd into nade ledge grab or bouncing fish. If you turnaround reverse needles(This a wave bounce?) you'll appear on stage where you can cancel into a nice vanish surprise kill.

Last bit, I think crouching out of a walk when the white dust appears creates a very small slide.

EDIT: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cktroIrZ5Tk

EDIT2: So getting hit right before you toss the grenade drops it right by you. Out of an airborne needle cancel you can throw it by canceling the airdodge.

 

[SplashYoureWet]

Any discussion about the "Grenade Snap" technique?
Not sure if this has been said before but:
If you dash > short hop side B> then grab ledge as your opponent is recovering to the ledge, you pop them off into where you just threw your grenade to secure the stock. Has this been mentioned before and if so, where can I find some information for application?

 

[Tristan_win]

Any discussion about the "Grenade Snap" technique?
Not sure if this has been said before but:
If you dash > short hop side B> then grab ledge as your opponent is recovering to the ledge, you pop them off into where you just threw your grenade to secure the stock. Has this been mentioned before and if so, where can I find some information for application?

Thief Nade
How to Perform: While an opponent is hanging on the ledge, do a Run-Off Nade Cancel (or you can short hop off the ledge and throw it outward), and grab the ledge.
Effect: Your opponent will be ledge ejected into the explosion.
Notes: This is a sneaky tech that may catch your opponent by surprise. To see this tech in action click on the hyperlink in the technique's name.
Stages: All with ledges
Credit: Although @ Othayuni directly approached me with this tech, it was first seen in @ _Tree 's Burst Grenade video .

^-^ Please look over the entire first post, it's full of well know and lesser know goodies

 

[Wasserwipf]

Any discussion about the "Grenade Snap" technique?
Not sure if this has been said before but:
If you dash > short hop side B> then grab ledge as your opponent is recovering to the ledge, you pop them off into where you just threw your grenade to secure the stock. Has this been mentioned before and if so, where can I find some information for application?

Thats the so called "Thief nade" its covered in the nade section.

Now this bit here works across as far as I know every character, just not every special. If you come to a running stop at a ledge, you can use a special to do pretty much the smallest bboost possible.

Not sure what you mean by that. Are you talking about the slide that lets us do Vanish and Needle gliding for example? If so, many possible combos mixups etc have been covered in the Needle fidget thread.
If thats not it, please explain.

EDIT: Outch, Ninja'd. Welp, it's the Sheik boards, getting ninja'd here isn't really surprising.

 

[SplashYoureWet]

^-^ Please look over the entire first post, it's full of well know and lesser know goodies

"Thief Nade" is what its called!
Thank you for for this.
Also, is this the appropriate place to ask a question about where to find certain techniques? I'm still new to Smashboards.

 

[Wasserwipf]

"Thief Nade" is what its called!
Thank you for for this.
Also, is this the appropriate place to ask a question about where to find certain techniques? I'm still new to Smashboards.

Let's be real here. 95% of everything Sheik can do has been covered in the OP (the first post in this thread...). Read / browse through it and you'll find what you search. Also, most titles are hyperlinked, so if you need further explanation or additional applications, you might want to click there and see where it leads you. There is some useful information out there as well. If what you seek is not here, you might as well check this thread. It contains a list of threads concerning Sheik.
If you're unable to find what you're looking for in neither of those, please immediatly tell us, and we'll make sure to update our database and tell you where to find it. Thanks.

 

[Opana]

Thats the so called "Thief nade" its covered in the nade section.


Not sure what you mean by that. Are you talking about the slide that lets us do Vanish and Needle gliding for example? If so, many possible combos mixups etc have been covered in the Needle fidget thread.
If thats not it, please explain.

EDIT: Outch, Ninja'd. Welp, it's the Sheik boards, getting ninja'd here isn't really surprising.

Similar, but doing a special out ot a skid alloes Sheik to usee it without momentum falling from the ledge. Any move this doesn't work with just needs one edtra step, pressing the direction towards the ledge immediately after pressing the special.

Yes I meant the fidget for needle cancelingbut couldn't recall and the lag I get here maks it difficult to see huge posts so I assumed one of you would get it.

 

[SplashYoureWet]

Let's be real here. 95% of everything Sheik can do has been covered in the OP (the first post in this thread...). Read / browse through it and you'll find what you search. Also, most titles are hyperlinked, so if you need further explanation or additional applications, you might want to click there and see where it leads you. There is some useful information out there as well. If what you seek is not here, you might as well check...
If you're unable to find what you're looking for in neither of those, please immediatly tell us, and we'll make sure to update our database and tell you where to find it. Thanks.

Thanks for this. I think it was a problem on my end, not the data base. I was searching for the technique by searching for "edge guard" using CTRL F, I never though to check the obvious "Grenade" section. This is a great resource, I just derp out a bit trying to use it.

 

[CrazyPerson]

First of all, great thread thanks to all who contributed.

Second, what would you all consider our bread and butter techniques? Basics that should be learned first?

 

[Equalox]

Yeah I remember Equalox, good guy; has a cat named Eevee.

that is exactly what I am talking about.
We can actually catch people with the wind only (before the second vanish hit box) and set up a tech chase at low percents.
Angle Vanish at the cancel height.

Here's a gif provided by wasserwipf.

It's true. I do have a cat named Eevee. Eevee says mow.

 

[ArikadoSD]

First of all, great thread thanks to all who contributed.

Second, what would you all consider our bread and butter techniques? Basics that should be learned first?

Master how Bouncing Fish works, how you can control it's range, using the second kick after you land the first one to cancel the landing lag, all that stuff.

Learn the needles range, get a good idea of all of sheik's moves, all that.

Forward Tilt can combo into itself about 3-4 times at low percents before the opponent is knocked back to the point where they're out of Ftilt's range. at that point you can rush grab them and then initiate a second combo from the throw.

all of Sheik's throws (except up throw) can combo into something most of the time unless DI'd properly and you didn't read the DI or opponent is at a pretty high percent. Dthrow can combo into both uair (useful for killing) and fair (useful for racking up percents). Fthrow can eaaasily combo into Fair, and possibly more than just 1 fair. back throw isn't useful a lot but sometimes you have to throw opponents out of the stage if you grab them near a ledge while facing away from it.

basically, that's what I would consider Sheik's bread and butter combos. there are definitely more advanced combos though and a lot of them are mentioned in the 1st post. I suggest you take a look, see how some high level sheik players play, and try to practice them all and get a good idea from them.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Back throw seems to lead into DJ>Needles>Bouncing Fish pretty consistently and can kill at sane percents when used offstage.

 

[Tristan_win]

Back throw seems to lead into DJ>Needles>Bouncing Fish pretty consistently and can kill at sane percents when used offstage.

Bthrow, really? Is this when they Di poorly or because bthrow seem to put people in the 'spins' more often around 100%?

 

[BigHairyFart]

Bthrow, really? Is this when they Di poorly or because bthrow seem to put people in the 'spins' more often around 100%?

DI doesn't seem to be much of a factor, as you can simply change your jump(s)/needle throw up depending on where they are. I couldn't get the B-Throw to register as a true combo into needles in training, but a full needle stack comes out pretty fast, and can even catch airdodges. I have not tested this in real matches very much yet, but it seems promising, especially since air needles>BF can be a true combo depending on how close you are to the target. And if you do it near the edge, they have a long way to fall for you to set up the needle throw.

 

[Absol]

Bthrow, really? Is this when they Di poorly or because bthrow seem to put people in the 'spins' more often around 100%?

SO NOW YOU'LL LISTEN

 

[CrazyPerson]

This is still possible, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcrtM_e89Nc&list=UU1yhcbWw9edICnELf4qhyJw

This looks like an interesting toy... I foresee a lot more SDs as I try to learn to gimp. (I don't have many training partners... and computers are good at not being gimped but terrible at not being smashed.)