the secret zelda strats discussionzone

nekokatsu

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nice Cosmo!!!, ok i have ONE BIG QUESTION!!!
in the GF vs dark rain, he abused the d grab to kick, but he couldnt land not even one!!! why is that?!...
i know the DI, its down and away of CF... but i always the kicked!!! and you dont!!! tell me why is that?!?!?!
what do you do after been sent away???, i noticed that u jump but no airdodge after evading the play.
could you tell us?

cuz i doubt that someone like dark rain misses all those kicks...
 

GKInfinity

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Cosmo, why didn't you use shiek against darkrain?
Zelda's more fashionable than sheik. That's obviously the only reason.

Zelda dittos are like impossible. I can never win a ditto
Man, I can't either. I think it's because I always try to space zeldas kick and when I'm perfectly in range to hit with it, so is my opponent. For me I always just feel like I'm throwing kicks out a few frames too late every time, and if I used them a bit earlier I'd be winning the majority of the time

nice Cosmo!!!, ok i have ONE BIG QUESTION!!!
in the GF vs dark rain, he abused the d grab to kick, but he couldnt land not even one!!! why is that?!...
i know the DI, its down and away of CF... but i always the kicked!!! and you dont!!! tell me why is that?!?!?!
what do you do after been sent away???, i noticed that u jump but no airdodge after evading the play.
could you tell us?

cuz i doubt that someone like dark rain misses all those kicks...
I think it's a combination of the fact that Cosmo's awesome and that darkrain looked maaddddddd rusty in those games. He SD'd quite a few times too
 

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
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Cosmo, why didn't you use shiek against darkrain?
I have been training with Vro in this matchup. I felt my sheik was both not ready yet, and my zelda was actually doing decent until match 3. if I could go back in time, I would have gone sheik in game 3, but hindsight is 20/20.

nekokatsu— there's a secret DI for cfalcon's dthrow. it is in between away, and down+away. it's not in the notch of the gamecube controller but inbetween the notches. it gives you barely enough time to airdodge if they try to knee perfectly. you can often jump out. if they decide to u-air it will always hit though. the problem is if you do airdodge to avoid the knee then they can regrab.
 
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I placed second in a tournament today with Zelda and Peach. Like 2/3's of it was Zelda. First time I ever won money at a tournament not including money matches

 

nekokatsu

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ok, i seems difficult, so, we have to auto input DI: to the back of the head of fox, DI up against peach, away against sheik and down +away in between the notches with CF... any other DI u suggest to master???
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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hey zelda board i was wondering how is zelda's MU vs jiggs? i sometimes play zelda for fun and against jiggs i seen to do pretty well i was wondering if it was b/c they lack MU knowledge or if zelda's MU vs jiggs is really close. Just wondering b/c peach vs jiggs is boring and a real ***** so i would be happy learning zelda for the MU so i can say i play both princesses. (no homo) (not like there is anything wrong with that) :) jk
 

GKInfinity

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Zelda does pretty well against puff. If you space the kick well it's hard for jiggs to get in hits. Make sure you know how to use zelda's up-b well because if you farores and reappear in the air (even if it's barely off the ground) she's got tons of lag and you might get rested. At the higher levels of play puff can be pretty tough for zelda and has the advantage, but at lower levels it's a more even MU (and you're opponent will commonly suffer from 'idk what to do against low tiers' syndrome which will give you an advantage)
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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yea the reason the MU when i played it does not seem that bad is b/c well spaced lightning kicks seemed to control the MU for me. So how do u practice zelda's up-B? i see people like cosmo grab the edge by teleporting down to it, i understand how the up-b works but i dont know how to put zelda in the air were i can train myself to learn the spacing. So is there a certain stage or something were u can practice up-Bing to the edge from above it? how do u set that situation up.
 

Cosmo!

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some tips about FW:

FW where you have to fall for awhile = 4 frames of ground lag, but you're vulnerable the entire way down

FW onto the ground directly = 21 frames of ground lag, generally one of the safest options. Buffer a lightshield using Z if you're worried about being hit.

FW into the air = about 20 frames to start falling and another 29 or so of lag. if the opponent is ready for this you will be hit.

if you FW in (even a slightly) downwards direction and grab the ledge, you are completely invincible while traveling to and grabbing the ledge. they cannot harm you. this will cancel the FW when you reach the ledge so you auto-grab it, as long as you are not holding Down

if you FW straight at a ledge or up at a ledge, you should input a SDI tech just in case (R, smash stick towards ledge as you reappear)

once on a ledge it is safer to add a FW to a regrab because it creates a hitbox.

If you FW stall you are completely invincible if you have no frames of error.

if you FW towards a ledge going diagonal upwards or straight, and are spaced right, you can cancel some of the distance of the FW by grinding the ledge.

If you FW on the ground straight, you get the minimal lag and cover a good distance. not a bad way to get across the stage fast.

a grounded FW on a platform lets you drop through platforms. might be useful OoS.

You are vulnerable during FW startup so Zelda's really good airdodge is something you should consider often.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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All good info to know, and i love zelda's air dodge it confuses my friends since it looks the same as her double jump lol.

My question with FW is... when i am watching your matches cosmo when off the stage recovering you hit some pretty tough angles to grab the ledge. for example u get hit off the stage an u DI so u go up then you recover my using FW diagonal and down to grab the edge. i just want to find out how to practice hitting these tough angles so i can grab the edge while recovering from above better. b/c right now i dont have confidence in my ability to recover to the edge from above which makes punishing me very easy for my opponents.

if i didnt explain my question well enough here i will find a vid of the recovery and show u what i mean.
 

Strong Bad

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Captain Falcon's downthrow sends at an angle of 65°
Assuming Captain Falcon is facing right, optimal DI is: 335°, or 25° below the horizontal.


Of course, since you're trying to maximize distance from Captain Falcon, optimal DI isn't always perpendicular DI, however, optimal DI in this case results in an adjusted trajectory of 47°, which is the best outcome.
 

Zone

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I never practiced it either NAGACE it kinda came natural to me from doing it with fox.

But I thought of a way you could try practicing it. Go to Yoshi Story's 64 on the cloud, when it dissappears just start pretending that you need to recover.

Or you could always just jump out and come back in, But I was assuming you wanted to try using ur double jump from a bit further away to try it further away.

I may have forgotten but I believe Zelda has 16 angles she can choose from when she up+Bs(correct me if I'm wrong please?)
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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thanks for the idea on yoshis and yea i wanted to try it from further out so that would work. It makes sense that you just got a feel for it through playing zelda, i am going to try her out a bit more vs my friend who plays jiggs so sooner or later i guess i will figure it out as well. thanks for the help
 

GKInfinity

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Yeah learning how to sweetspot the edge with farores pretty much just comes with experience. Play against other people and practice using it to get directly to the edge, even if you mess up a lot at first. The only way you'll get better is by trying. It is very similar to fox's up-b so knowing how to use that well will help you too.

Of course, while playing against other people you shouldn't always go for the edge. Watch what they're doing in case it looks like they're gonna go for an edgehog and adjust accordingly during the farores start up lag. You've also gotta make sure you aren't too close to the stage when using farores and in a position where they can jump out and hit you during the start up lag (there's a decent amount of it). All these things just come naturally in time with using her though.

Oh and NAGACE, you could also try playing against a cpu and bump up it's handicap so that every hit sends you offstage and just try recovering from that. I've never really practiced recovery outside of playing against people but it seems like that method would work out okay.

And yeah zone, pretty damn sure there are 16 angles (at least 16 anyway, but idk there could be 32 angles I guess).
 

Dark Hart

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some tips about FW:

FW where you have to fall for awhile = 4 frames of ground lag, but you're vulnerable the entire way down

FW onto the ground directly = 21 frames of ground lag, generally one of the safest options. Buffer a lightshield using Z if you're worried about being hit.

FW into the air = about 20 frames to start falling and another 29 or so of lag. if the opponent is ready for this you will be hit.

if you FW in (even a slightly) downwards direction and grab the ledge, you are completely invincible while traveling to and grabbing the ledge. they cannot harm you. this will cancel the FW when you reach the ledge so you auto-grab it, as long as you are not holding Down

if you FW straight at a ledge or up at a ledge, you should input a SDI tech just in case (R, smash stick towards ledge as you reappear)

once on a ledge it is safer to add a FW to a regrab because it creates a hitbox.

If you FW stall you are completely invincible if you have no frames of error.

if you FW towards a ledge going diagonal upwards or straight, and are spaced right, you can cancel some of the distance of the FW by grinding the ledge.

If you FW on the ground straight, you get the minimal lag and cover a good distance. not a bad way to get across the stage fast.

a grounded FW on a platform lets you drop through platforms. might be useful OoS.

You are vulnerable during FW startup so Zelda's really good airdodge is something you should consider often.
I like this post, especially that which I put in bold
 

TheLake

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FW is booooss

ish...

and why would you DI away from shieks throws?

take the upair and hope its weak lol

Practice on brinstar for FW stalling

if you dont get burned by the lava

your doing somthing write

if not...

learn to DI

so mango wont knee you in the face ):
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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Yeah learning how to sweetspot the edge with farores pretty much just comes with experience. Play against other people and practice using it to get directly to the edge, even if you mess up a lot at first. The only way you'll get better is by trying. It is very similar to fox's up-b so knowing how to use that well will help you too.

Of course, while playing against other people you shouldn't always go for the edge. Watch what they're doing in case it looks like they're gonna go for an edgehog and adjust accordingly during the farores start up lag. You've also gotta make sure you aren't too close to the stage when using farores and in a position where they can jump out and hit you during the start up lag (there's a decent amount of it). All these things just come naturally in time with using her though.

Oh and NAGACE, you could also try playing against a cpu and bump up it's handicap so that every hit sends you offstage and just try recovering from that. I've never really practiced recovery outside of playing against people but it seems like that method would work out okay.

And yeah zone, pretty damn sure there are 16 angles (at least 16 anyway, but idk there could be 32 angles I guess).
i never really played fox, i suck as him and never wanted to learn him so i cant recover with him ether lol. The handicap idea sounds good i tink i will try that (i forgot that handicap was in the game lol)
 

GKInfinity

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Practice on brinstar for FW stalling

if you dont get burned by the lava

your doing somthing write

if not...

learn to DI

so mango wont knee you in the face ):
I never thought to try farores stall on brinstar. It sounds legit for practice. I'm pretty sure i've got it down already but it's a good way to test it
 

nekokatsu

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i always DI away sheik D throw, to avoid f tilt and F air... but i never tought about DIing up... xDDD ill try it!
thks
 

Strong Bad

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D-Throw trajectory is 80 degrees, so DIing perfectly straight up would give (10/90)*18 = 2 degrees of trajectory difference in the upwards direction, yielding an adjusted trajectory of 82 unless I'm mistaken (Magus420?). :/
 

Zone

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I'm starting to think magus name searches himself cuz from my experience he always shows up and answers if you type out his name lol
 

Umbreon

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my tips for zelda v sheik:

use down B
tbh i'd rather stay zelda. even though m2k routinely 2 stocks me with sheik vs zelda, I'd still rather do that than the sheik ditto. all the other sheiks in the US past m2k are a joke anyway so i just end up never switching.
 

nekokatsu

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i agree with the JOKE part... but a bad sheik still can beat the crap out of you!!! xDDD i also use down B against sheiks but im so stuborn that i use it when ive lost 2 stocks with Zelda xDDD
 

Umbreon

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Joke huh?

try playing ANY shiek in an actual set in tournament lol

JOKES ARE FUN
I do. I knocked out plank and boss 2 vs 1 in teams like a week before pound 5.

also thought I'd share this. this was me talking to m2k about his set w/ cosmo on aim.

[18:13] Jason: zelda sucks
[18:14] Jason: what a piece of **** trash character
[18:14] Max: =/
[18:14] Max: but but
[18:14] Jason: Awful horrible character
[18:14] Max: she's so pretty!
[18:14] Jason: terrible
[18:14] Max: -dead-
[18:14] Jason: LOL
[18:14] Max: -really dead-
 

Umbreon

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):

You did your best max

you did your best

cosmo still had the balls to try it

best zelda <3
i'm the opposite. my matches vs m2k are usually 2 stocks and not as bleak as cosmo's set vs him ( >_< @ that set) but it might be because i've played m2k wayyyyy too much so it's not really a fair comparison. i don't think i've ever seen m2k lose a sheik ditto in...ever =/

on the contrary, i'll use sheik vs other low tiers. like azen challenged to play me and I was already on zelda and he picked link, and halfway through the first stock i was like "wtf am I doing" and switched to sheik and ***** him. i stayed zelda vs axe and i did okay there but those were throw-away matches anyway.

dr pp and i had 4 matches, and 2 were close and 2 were not so close. i didn't really know where to go against him once it reset to a neutral position. if anyone knows what to do vs a non-stupid falco i'll take some advice?
 

GKInfinity

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I've never played PP but he plays so smart... idk it seems like it would be nearly impossible to beat him with zelda. Power shield absolutely all of his lasers and attacks and get some random kicks in that lead to gimps. That is my advice. lol
 
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