Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[majora_787]

Something to remember about when the developers are in the character design and application process:

Fan favoritism is not the only qualification they consider.

Even if Ridley is hands-down the most requested newcomer (which he very well may be), that doesn't mean the developers-- namely, Sakurai-- think he would work for a various amount of other reasons. Size. Moveset. Uniqueness factor. Etc. All of this is taken into consideration (along with who the developers themselves are most excited about) as they start drawing up designs and moving forward in the character creation process. And while in that process, they gradually begin to cut ideas that didn't fit. It's quite possible that Ridley, as well as a whole bunch of other fan favorites not yet mentioned, were being worked on then dropped when they had to narrow down the roster to only the best candidates. This cutting board process happens in every game ever made.

That said, I'd love for Ridley to be in it. I hope he's in it. But to claim that they're idiots for not putting him in is showing a bit of ignorance of the developmental process. As Sakurai so bluntly put it: "Have you ever made a game?"

The issue is, when Sakurai was asked about Ridley before the first concern that came to his mind was him being slow. Size is objectively not a concern for ANY character, and uniqueness factor is obviously present. While it may not be out of ignorance that he does not include Ridley, but if he doesn't include Ridley it is pretty obvious that it is because he doesn't consider Ridley worth the effort it would take for him to be playable.

We are talking about a man who REGULARLY makes characters with physical traits and proportions not much different from Ridley's. If he can make large characters with wings and tails and strange body posture all work in combinations of one, two, or three perfectly fine then there's no reason why Ridley is The Exception.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Something to remember about when the developers are in the character design and application process:

Fan favoritism is not the only qualification they consider.

Even if Ridley is hands-down the most requested newcomer (which he very well may be), that doesn't mean the developers-- namely, Sakurai-- think he would work for a various amount of other reasons. Size. Moveset. Uniqueness factor. Etc. All of this is taken into consideration (along with who the developers themselves are most excited about) as they start drawing up designs and moving forward in the character creation process. And while in that process, they gradually begin to cut ideas that didn't fit. It's quite possible that Ridley, as well as a whole bunch of other fan favorites not yet mentioned, were being worked on then dropped when they had to narrow down the roster to only the best candidates. This cutting board process happens in every game ever made.

That said, I'd love for Ridley to be in it. I hope he's in it. But to claim that they're idiots for not putting him in is showing a bit of ignorance of the developmental process. As Sakurai so bluntly put it: "Have you ever made a game?"

Fan favoritism is one quality to consider, but at this point, I think they're promoting characters from recent games to try and get more sales. That doesn't mean he's not including fan favorites or plenty of fanservice, he's definitely doing that.

 

[Gene]

 

[staindgrey]

The issue is, when Sakurai was asked about Ridley before the first concern that came to his mind was him being slow. Size is objectively not a concern for ANY character, and uniqueness factor is obviously present. While it may not be out of ignorance that he does not include Ridley, but if he doesn't include Ridley it is pretty obvious that it is because he doesn't consider Ridley worth the effort it would take for him to be playable.

We are talking about a man who REGULARLY makes characters with physical traits and proportions not much different from Ridley's. If he can make large characters with wings and tails and strange body posture all work in combinations of one, two, or three perfectly fine then there's no reason why Ridley is The Exception.

You're not wrong at all. And I agree. But neither of us is a videogame developer. In early testing, they may find that his odd shape due to the skinny body and large wings could make for awkward animations or hitbox difficulties. Or maybe his actual moveset seemed uninspired when compared to Bowser (which I've always assumed was a reason K. Rool never got in). Or maybe, as lame as it sounds, you're right: the developers simply aren't all that interested in Ridley in the first place. But that's their right to choose. They're going to be working on that character for months or even close to a year; clearly it would be best to give them something that intrigues and compels them.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Something to remember about when the developers are in the character design and application process:

Fan favoritism is not the only qualification they consider.

But it should definitely be one of the strongest factors in deciding the most important part of a fighting game: the roster.

You're not going to sell a Smash Brothers game that's a couple of fan favorites and then Goomba, Paratroopa and Bullet Bill. Yeah, those are easily recognized, and a lot of people are going to recognize them, but no-one really asked for them and they're bad picks no matter how you slice it.

Like Wii Fit Trainer, Chorus Men and Shulk.

 

[majora_787]

The only reason Wii Fit Trainer isn't a "bad pick" is because Sakurai added WFT BECAUSE everyone would be surprised and nearly nobody requested her. So she technically fulfills her purpose. The other two, yeh.

The issue is, I really at this point have a hard time believing Sakurai would be "unable" to get Ridley to work after he made Captain Falcon out of almost literally nothing at all, and has made plenty of characters with traits that could easily be applied to Ridley. If he doesn't care for Ridley just because, that's his business. I just won't be happy with that as a fan.

 

[staindgrey]

But it should definitely be one of the strongest factors in deciding the most important part of a fighting game: the roster.

You're not going to sell a Smash Brothers game that's a couple of fan favorites and then Goomba, Paratroopa and Bullet Bill. Yeah, those are easily recognized, and a lot of people are going to recognize them, but no-one really asked for them and they're bad picks no matter how you slice it.

Like Wii Fit Trainer, Chorus Men and Shulk.

That's your subjective point of view, though. Personally, I find Wii Fit Trainer to be one of the best choices they made. And Chorus Men & Shulk aren't guaranteed to be in, though Shulk would likely make all those Xenoblade fans who got them to release in America very, very happy.

Just keep in mind that not everyone likes/dislikes the same things you do. That extends to the people making the game, as well.

 

[Pacack]

But it should definitely be one of the strongest factors in deciding the most important part of a fighting game: the roster.

You're not going to sell a Smash Brothers game that's a couple of fan favorites and then Goomba, Paratroopa and Bullet Bill. Yeah, those are easily recognized, and a lot of people are going to recognize them, but no-one really asked for them and they're bad picks no matter how you slice it.

Like Wii Fit Trainer, Chorus Men and Shulk.

[sad Shulk noises]

 

[The King of Skulls]

But it should definitely be one of the strongest factors in deciding the most important part of a fighting game: the roster.

You're not going to sell a Smash Brothers game that's a couple of fan favorites and then Goomba, Paratroopa and Bullet Bill. Yeah, those are easily recognized, and a lot of people are going to recognize them, but no-one really asked for them and they're bad picks no matter how you slice it.

Like Wii Fit Trainer, Chorus Men and Shulk.

Sorry, sir, but I for one would kill to play as Paratroopa. #1 main right there.

Regardless of that, you have a point.

 

[Xenorange]

Zero 's hype announcement?

 

[Weeman]

But it should definitely be one of the strongest factors in deciding the most important part of a fighting game: the roster.

You're not going to sell a Smash Brothers game that's a couple of fan favorites and then Goomba, Paratroopa and Bullet Bill. Yeah, those are easily recognized, and a lot of people are going to recognize them, but no-one really asked for them and they're bad picks no matter how you slice it.

Like Wii Fit Trainer, Chorus Men and Shulk.

I disagree with Shulk, many people had been requesting Shulk even before we got the second leak. As for the Chorus men, well i had seen people wanting representation for rhythm heaven, but i guess not many actually imagined a character so i guess that's right.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

That's your subjective point of view, though. Personally, I find Wii Fit Trainer to be one of the best choices they made. And Chorus Men & Shulk aren't guaranteed to be in, though Shulk would likely make all those Xenoblade fans who got them to release in America very, very happy.

Just keep in mind that not everyone likes/dislikes the same things you do. That extends to the people making the game, as well.

Oh, I know it's subjective, it's just that the development of a crossover game is considerably different than the development of any other fighting game. It's cool for developers for, say, Street Fighter to say 'Hey, we want a character that's a fitness nut and she does yoga and that's her entire moveset.' or 'We want a dude that uses household items and furniture to attack.' or 'We want an opera-themed guy who attacks with his voice and the help of his crazy friends and his two brothers.' because that sort of thing can fly for Street Fighter. They can make that work 'cause it's Street Fighter, no-one's gonna bat an eyelash.

But when you're making a game like Smash Brothers, suddenly you're tasked with figuring out what people want and how to give it to them. I'm aware Wii Fit Trainer was purely for the shock factor, and that's fine, but Villager serves the same exact purpose because he was disconfirmed back in Brawl by Sakurai himself and still showed up at random in this game, too.

Put simply, if you're not willing to even consider the fan favorites beyond two or three newcomers and start to put whatever you want into the game, it stops being Super Smash Brothers and starts being Super Whatever Sakurai Wants and the Fans Might Get Some Scraps Brothers.

 

[AndreaAC]

And this is how we will react by reading their comments after Ridley's reveal:

We gotta act like gentlemen and ladies and laugh internally about their stupidy

Why, I appreciate that.

(Though, really, @ AndreaAC would appreciate it more )

"I'm touched...."

 

[IsmaR]

Guys please stop bringing other character discussion/speculation in here. Everyone has their differing opinions, but this isn't the place to keep discussing it. Just because you don't like the inclusion of a few characters (which more than likely would not be at the "expense" of Ridley's inclusion, as many people keep assuming it was). We don't know what effect ANY character had or didn't have on other characters. Sakurai may very well just not hold these "highly requested" choices in the same light everyone else does.

Maybe Sakurai thinks a boss/stage hazard/whatever is the best representation they can get in Smash. Maybe he doesn't even think twice, and just adds in who/ideas he thinks would be innovative. Obviously we all think otherwise, but venting it out here isn't accomplishing anything.

 

[majora_787]

Guys please stop bringing other character discussion/speculation in here. Everyone has their differing opinions, but this isn't the place to keep discussing it. Just because you don't like the inclusion of a few characters (which more than likely would not be at the "expense" of Ridley's inclusion, as many people keep assuming it was). We don't know what effect ANY character had or didn't have on other characters. Sakurai may very well just not hold these "highly requested" choices in the same light everyone else does.

Maybe Sakurai thinks a boss/stage hazard/whatever is the best representation they can get in Smash. Maybe he doesn't even think twice, and just adds in who/ideas he thinks would be innovative. Obviously we all think otherwise, but venting it out here isn't accomplishing anything.

If he thought that, I would assume he would actually design a good boss like he did in Brawl, and not massively downgrade it in literally every way he could. Sakurai's not ignorant of everything, nor is he entirely incompetent at game design.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

That design is still ridiculous almost a year later. He looks he has a massive beard and eyebrows.

..... That's what's awesome about it. A pterodactyl with a rock beard harder than Chuck Norris's, and I'd say the same if Ridley had such a thing.

The Rhedogian could very easily replace boss Ridley :
-It appears several times in Other M at different locations....
-including the Pyrosphere (even if it's not in the geothermal power plant),
-Can fly,
-Shoot missiles,
-Can also grab you in Other M to slam you on the ground,

Golden made that distinction first, but yeah. No one would miss Stage Hazardley if we got that instead.

 

[Weeman]

If he thought that, I would assume he would actually design a good boss like he did in Brawl, and not massively downgrade it in literally every way he could. Sakurai's not ignorant of everything, nor is he entirely incompetent at game design.

And how did you come to the conclusion that he was downgraded?, assuming that he is a boss we cannot really tell his final size based from the shadow alone, and of course we have no idea wich moves would he have.

 

[majora_787]

And how did you come to the conclusion that he was downgraded?, assuming that he is a boss we cannot really tell his final size based from the shadow alone, and of course we have no idea wich moves would he have.

Why at any point would they make a boss the size of a playable character only to significantly change it later? There is literally zero reason to do that. If anything, they would always have the boss be at its final size so they can make sure it works in the way it will be in the game. And the issue is the size, the speed, and the layout of the stage makes for a boss which is VERY easily breakable and is in no way *NOT* a downgrade from Brawl.

 

[Weeman]

Why at any point would they make a boss the size of a playable character only to significantly change it later? There is literally zero reason to do that. If anything, they would always have the boss be at its final size so they can make sure it works in the way it will be in the game. And the issue is the size, the speed, and the layout of the stage makes for a boss which is VERY easily breakable and is in no way *NOT* a downgrade from Brawl.

What i meant by final size is that despite the analysis that have been made here, Ridley could still be pretty big, as in he was never small to begin with in that shadow.

 

[majora_787]

What i meant by final size is that despite the analysis that have been made here, Ridley could still be pretty big, as in he was never small to begin with in that shadow.

We are literally able to compare Bowser's shadow to Ridley's shadow on the same stage side by side. Unless Ridley is *INSANELY* inaccurate to his normal proportions, his size is pretty easy to estimate. And it is definitely underwhelming next to other bosses in the same game, let alone his Brawl appearance.

The issue isn't that he isn't big. He is big. Big for a character. Like Bowser, DK, and Dedede. Big for a boss? No. That would be Yellow Devil, or Ridley's Brawl appearance. Who are a few times larger.

And once again when you combine this with the very significant size and layout of the stage, it just is not good for the "boss encounter" that would allegedly take place. Combined with the fact that he EVER at any point moves as slow as he does in the Direct, it would be as simple as running and using the platforms to avoid Ridley while he flies around and does things.

I've said this before, the ONLY way they could balance this boss which was made poorly to begin with up until this point would be to make his attacks extremely difficult to avoid, like fireballs that explode and take up much of the stage.

 

[Neo Zero]

That's a really nice fake (makes you wonder why they put P3 when we all know yellow is P3 and red is P1)

Now let's just hope we can see the real thing clapping soon.

Not that Ridley would ever lose.

 

[O D I N]

Here we go AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN!

 

[Weeman]

That's a really nice fake (makes you wonder why they put P3 when we all know yellow is P3 and red is P1)

Now let's just hope we can see the real thing clapping soon.

Not that Ridley would ever lose.

I like it cause it shows that Ridley clapping wouldn't look out of place.

 

[Neo Zero]

I like cause it shows that Ridley clapping wouldn't look out of place.

If the King of all evil can clap for his age old enemy winning a game, then I'm sure a murderous psycopathic space dragon could clap in defeat as well.

Or he could be all brooding and cool like Mewtwo and be all like "Please, I let you win"

 

[majora_787]

If the King of all evil can clap for his age old enemy winning a game, then I'm sure a murderous psycopathic space dragon could clap in defeat as well.

Or he could be all brooding and cool like Mewtwo and be all like "Please, I let you win"

Both, definitely. How? Who knows. He only claps when nobody is watching the screen?

 

[Reila]

I like it cause it shows that Ridley clapping wouldn't look out of place.

It looks amazing, but I think Ridley will have his back turned to the screen when clapping. He is shy, you know.

 

[Weeman]

It looks amazing, but I think Ridley will have his back turned to the screen when clapping. He is shy, you know.

Shy?, more like staring with anger while struggling to even clap

 

[Neo Zero]

It looks amazing, but I think Ridley will have his back turned to the screen when clapping. He is shy, you know.

900 pound Space Dragons are often known to be shy after all

 

[IsmaR]

I can take Stain'd showing up out of nowhere, but I draw the line at O D I N waking from his slumber.

 

[domokl]

But it should definitely be one of the strongest factors in deciding the most important part of a fighting game: the roster.

You're not going to sell a Smash Brothers game that's a couple of fan favorites and then Goomba, Paratroopa and Bullet Bill. Yeah, those are easily recognized, and a lot of people are going to recognize them, but no-one really asked for them and they're bad picks no matter how you slice it.

Like Wii Fit Trainer, Chorus Men and Shulk.

WFT as said above was added to surprise everyone. chorus men is from a fun series that could have a very unique rythm moveset. WHY IS SHULK THERE

 

[darksamus77]

It very much irks me that Palutena gets in and Ridley is sidestepped yet again, when the consensus around these parts was each had roughly the same showing before E3 and each was teased without being shown, of course. Now, Sakurai probably thinks revealing Ridley at the last Direct will make Ridley fans happy. He's partially right but I've lost a lot of respect for him for how he's unceremoniously dragged this out. If he's a boss hazard, this has to be the biggest possible turd he could take on Ridley and his fans. I do hope he's in, but I just want the torture to end. The fact that it's still this uncertain is absolutely ridiculous and he has not done this with any other character, they've all been confirmed now.

 

[JohnathanACE]

WFT as said above was added to surprise everyone. chorus men is from a fun series that could have a very unique rythm moveset. WHY IS SHULK THERE

Because he's from an amazing RPG on the Wii. Seriously Shulk is an addition that many people want over here and even if they didn't he is still pretty big in Japan. If Ridley was a little more wanted in Japan he'd be a shoo-in but sadly that's not the case.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/476508033216835584

That was the suprise announcement

Sakurai made a twitter picture so in other words

Only 3 character reveals at E3

(Unless sakurai reveals mr game and watch tomorrow though.)

EDIT: oh my bad it may just be a picture the real announcement could be soon.

 

[Neo Zero]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/476508033216835584

That was the suprise announcement

Sakurai made a twitter picture so in other words

Only 3 character reveals at E3

(Unless sakurai reveals mr game and watch tomorrow though.)

The hype announcement was a picture of people crowded together?

Would someone find the real Ridley to eat whoever thought that was a hype announcement.

 

[SchAlternate]

Both, definitely. How? Who knows. He only claps when nobody is watching the screen?

Better yet. He looks at the winner menacingly while clapping very slowly, as if he was like "Enjoy your victory while you can; I'll consume your soul during your sleep..."

 

[Reila]

Xenoblade is such a great game (and I don't even like RPGs) that not having Shulk in Smash should be considered a crime.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/476508033216835584

That was the suprise announcement

Sakurai made a twitter picture so in other words

Only 3 character reveals at E3

(Unless sakurai reveals mr game and watch tomorrow though.)

Wow, such a big announcement. I am out of words here.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

The hype announcement was a picture of people crowded together?

Would someone find the real Ridley to eat whoever thought that was a hype announcement.

Well, they're huddled together in front of a TV screen. They look excited. I see a lot of purple.

Ridley confirmed!

 

[Deleted member]

The hype announcement was a picture of people crowded together?

Would someone find the real Ridley to eat whoever thought that was a hype announcement.

No that picture has been up since the day of the invitational, considering it's public and been retweeted by others I doubt this is the announcement.

 

[AndreaAC]

Roidley looks fine clapping and all, but I think the Original Ridley would do this instead after losing...

O___O I HAD TO....

 

[Weeman]

No that picture has been up since the day of the invitational, considering it's public and been retweeted by others I doubt this is the announcement.

Wait, what announcement?