Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

IsmaR

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#1



As many probably figured, it's been decided that it is in the best interest of both the support group and staff for this thread and all further discussion on Ridley is to be put on (possibly permanent) hiatus until further developments arise, and it has either been shown that he can realistically become a downloadable fighter in the future, or that there are no chances/plan for him to be playable.

This is in accordance with some new guidelines regarding DLC/future content and SSB4 3DS/Wii U Character Discussion overall.

1. We reopened character discussion on the news that DLC characters were possible

2. This section is now concerned with possible DLC inclusions, and although there are no rules or precedence for something like this, in general we feel that this section should now be clear of characters which are already implemented into the game (Assist Trophy, Pokeball, stage boss/hazards, character movesets/victory screens, etc.).

While all things considered, Ridley would by popularity be a must wanted inclusion, and it could still happen. However, we have nothing to go on, and Ridley discussion being in a public space is very prone to trolling and flaming, as has been seen thus far with it's reopening.
tl;dr

Ridley discussion unfortunately attracts negative discussion (flaming/trolling/general salt and off topic posting) from both sides. Whilst this thread could be left open to discuss Ridley's inclusion as a stage hazard, or his slim chances as a DLC-add-on, this would be better covered in either a specific Stage Discussion thread, or in the tried-and-true Social Group section.

Discussions in a private space/social group have been more tame and less volatile and we would like to support and approve of people still using them for their favourite characters.
With the recent closing/disbanding from the Forgotten All-Stars Alliance group, the majority of us have relocated here for the time being:

http://smashboards.com/social-forums/space-pirates-luxurious-mansion.1760/

See @PresidentWario about getting an invite.

I'm giving it a brief time for everyone to get their last posts in, but it will most likely be within 24 hours.


(Thanks to @N3ON for this banner)













Credit to @Angelglory

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Welcome to the last 100 pages/days of the Ridley for SSB4 thread. It has been a crazy ride, but now the game is finally upon us. Please remember Global Rules still apply here and to read this before posting:

-

The Space Pirates - The people behind the dragon pterosaur alien big guy.

[collapse=Supporter list]Everyone with a brain pretty much.
[/collapse]
 
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#2

Hello everyone! Thanks to @ IsmaR IsmaR I have been given the second post here on this Ridley Support Page! What I plan to do here is compile some of the best posts/videos by forum-goers on this thread over the past few months. A couple of disclaimers first of all
  • This is all Post Smash Direct evidence. This means after Ridley's shadow was shown in the April direct
  • This post is not meant to prove to you that Ridley is for sure playable, it is instead here to inform you on evidence you may not have know otherwise due to most media sites not reporting such evidence. If you came here spouting "Ridley is too big idiots", chances are, we sent you here.
  • Ridley could still very well NOT be playable. However, due to the evidence below, I deem that unlikely. This post is meant to at least get you educated before jumping to conclusions
  • The reason I felt called to create this post is for a couple reasons.
    1. I was once someone who didn't care for Ridley's inclusion. I am a Metroid fan, as well as a Ridley fan, but I never really cared, I still don't care too much about Ridley's inclusion, though I am certainly more wanting of his playability now that I have been on this thread for a few months now.
    2. I was convinced that Ridley at least has a better chance than not due to most of the posts that I will be showing below. I also assumed Ridley was deconfirmed after the shadow was showed, but then was turned in the complete opposite direction due to the analyst in this thread
    3. There began to be spam in the thread by Ridley detractors calling us stupid for believing he still has a chance. It would either in up in a flame war, or it would end up unneeded spam of past "great posts". We needed a mega-thread for these posts and I took it upon myself to create one.


GENERAL EVIDENCE:
Alright, below you will see General Evidence relating to Ridley's playability in Smash Bros. 4. This includes anything from Essay's, to general thinking logic on how we should look at Sakurai's teasing.

  • Before we begin. Let's address the elephant in the room. Of course, the shadow. You should of course look at this again before continuing. But this version is brightened. We can see what the direct didn't intend for us to see at the end. Notice Ridley grabbing Pikachu. And Ridley jumping. Not typical boss-like behavior right? Especially for Ridley.

  • The @aldelaro5 essay is a great example of someone not biased towards Ridley looking at the evidence that has been presented and drawing his own inclusions from it. Overall a great read.



< REALTALK >

Before

In Super Smash Bros for the Nintendo 64, he was a background element. In Super Smash Bros Melee, he appeared in the intro cutscene as well as being a trophy. This appearance became more important when the "too big" argument came but this will be explained in its dedicated section. Finally, he was a boss enemy in Super Smash Bros Brawl.

The latest is what made a lot of people doubtful with his inclusion primarily because he has always been represented in his game as a boss canonically. Even tough he doesn't have to be a boss just because he is canonically, the way he acted as a boss was very questionable. In fact, the way he attacks seems very similar to Dynablade, a Kirby boss. Which could make sense as the master hand is also a Kirby boss so Sakurai wanted to include elements from his creations.

Where it gets interesting is that the whole Subspace Emissary (aka: SSE) was based on a Kirby game and it can even be considered as the "main" mode of the game since you can unlock everyone by beating it. This mode took a big amount of time to develop it and that, is a well known fact. I made a theory on this mode that basically says that because most of the elements of the game was centralized in a way or another with SSE, it affected the general representation of the whole game. For more details, you can read it here but I will talk more specifically how it could've affected Ridley.

Since he was a Dynablade clone, it's likely that he ended up like Ganondorf which basically means that he was chosen to be the Dynablade of the game instead of Dynablade himself because of his appearance. Which makes sense because such a boss should have been planned for the needs of SSE. But this also means that if it wasn't for his appearance, he may simply ended up being a mere trophy since SSE wouldn't need him.

What is affecting his chances is that not only an SSE-like mode has been deconfirmed but also because of smash run. It just seems to fix those representation problem by having more rep for known series and proper rep for newer one. All this to say that because of that, it doesn't have to be a boss again since the needs he fulfilled before is no longer there.

So he could still be playable even if he was a boss before.

The biggest argument

In his games, not only he was a boss but most of the time, he was quite huge comparing to Samus. This lead some doubt that he couldn't be playable because he would be too big. The thing is, it's not because he was big in source material that you had to import his EXACT data to implement him in the game. Not only that, but it also already happened before in smash for him and other characters.

In SSBM, his appearance in the intro is clearly smaller than his usual boss appearances. And the trophy is even more obvious because you can rotate the model; it makes the comparison trusted. I know it's subjective but it could even be considered acceptable to see his trophy design as playable. He wasn't even designed to be playable and it seems like it could have with just minor adjustment like the size of his tail that would be required but mostly, he would be ok.

In SSBB and SSB4, Olimar got the exact opposite treatment. He's the size of a quarter and yet, he was upscaled to fit with averagely sized characters. It shows how you may need to alter the source material to fit the game's needs. This is true for characters but also for stages, assist and even music as some are remixed. I think it's clear that his size canon shouldn't matter to his chance in SSB4.

Complexity

The main problem with Ridley is his body structure. Being an agile dragon, his structure would be kinda hard to make and animate due to his complexity. Sakurai said that Ridley would've been slow and would be hard to make it work.
I think that would probably be impossible. [laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it,we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that have been all right? [laughs]
Source: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/66789493 (which source Nintendo Power May 2008 issue)

Notice how he said that "we may have been able to do it". This means that even though it would be hard, it COULD be possible. However, since it will require more work, it has to worth the results; that just makes sense. It turns out that Ridley is currently and was one of the most recognized and requested character. Just that could justify the works but also because he could bring a good uniqueness to the roster which is what Sakurai wants.

And on stating how he would be slow, remember that this quote was from melee development and Sakurai did change his mind on character's inclusion at least 2 times.

Villager:
Why did you go for the villager and the Wii Fit trainer?', Neither of them are fighting characters, certainly. In fact, we had previously removed the villager from Super Smash Bros. Brawl in the planning stages because he wasn't suited for battle.
Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/44...es-mega-man-smash-bros-s-other-new-characters

Pacman:
During development of Smash Bros. Brawl, Mr. Shigeru Miyamoto of Nintendo approached me and asked, 'Can't we have Pac-Man as a guest character?'" Sakurai recalled. "At the time, imagining the image of Pac-Man and his incomplete pizza shape, I thought to myself, 'Hmmm... That's a little too farfetched.'
Source: http://kotaku.com/pac-man-almost-got-into-super-smash-bros-brawl-1599610742

If he changed his mind between SSBB and SSB4, he could have between SSBM and SSB4.

However, the speculation on the "too big" argument took an unusual expansion mainly because of a video released on July 20 2013...

The infamous Shokio's video

This video was known for being the point when the "too big" argument started to spread and created that much debates.

The video is here:


Despite his rude approach to present his toughs, there's a lot of issues in the way he does that.

First, he makes assumption by saying that THE ONLY reason supporter think that he could be properly resized is his NES game where he had to because the system was limited. I said that you don't have to put the EXACT data to use it so what does it have to do with his NES game?

And then, he shows his multiple appearance and claim that he's too big every time. Ironically, he's proving my statement above because they are clearly not the same size for all of the games. If it had to be changed multiple times, I don't see why he can't now.

But it gets worse: he says that resizing works for "certain people". Of course it does but the decision has to be at the developer's discretion which means that if for a design inconsistency he would have to be resized, it could be resized and works. He gets to a weird logic with comparison on Olimar since the goal of his resize was to fit in the game... PERIOD. It doesn't have to do with how taller he is with his Pikmin no, it's the whole game and so, the whole roster. If it can't make sense to play as someone who would take the whole stage, why it would for someone who is hard to see due to him being so small? Also, won't comment on the Bowser comparison for obvious reasons (it doesn't matter if he's a turtle).

Now this is where it gets to make people believe. He claim that Ridley was MADE to be a big boss and so, wouldn't make sense to contradicts that. The problem is that smash is known to not respect canon because of obvious inconsistencies. For instance, why can I play as Ganondorf in smash while I need to defeat him at the end of ocarina of time? It really doesn't limit to canon and the same is for every elements in the game. So, it doesn't matter that Ridley was made to be a boss in his games since it can be altered.

Now, you might think he follows a logical pattern by not being aware of what I just said but the next part is really asking more than just an opinion.

I don't know what the author of the mod had to say but that was forged evidence. He had to deliberately take THE mod made by using THE ORIGINAL MODEL of the game that was DESIGNED TO BE A BOSS to SHOW how awkward it would be if his size was changed. You take the model made in the INTENT of being a boss and try to show it as a playable character so I EXPECT THAT IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!! You would need to show a model made in the intent of being playable to do such a preview. It's like me trying to prove that wav music doesn't make better quality because I converted from an mp3 music which doesn't changes anything.

This is so obvious that it really just trying to fuel flame wars but the end is unquestionably the goal of the whole video.

He tells that if you see anyone WANTING him to link that video.

That is pure propaganda and unfortunately, it worked. He claimed after on this very forum (smashboards) that he made that video as a troll but this isn't just "for making fun of" but it was the fuel that the small flame being the argument to spread and became probably is the most controversial subject as of now (even beating sal leak).

I put wanting in caps, that's because want and expect shouldn't be mixed. Now, it targeted EVERY SINGLE supporter and this thread being an obvious example (the Ridley support thread on smashboards). It definitely reached the point where it's a flame war and not an opinion video which was really unnecessary. That video explains why it shouldn't be as big as it became.

Reminder, I never said what he said was "wrong" but "don't make sense" and most of his statement are based on false belief.

So, the flame wars started and now, it became a lot more important through time because of the way Sakurai alluded to him. The first time was exactly a month after the release of that video and it's "the fateful day".

August 20: beginning of 50/50

Before going further, he did talked about how Smash doesn't stay true to scale in others Picture of the day (aka: POTD):
Pic of the day. This dog is huge… Wait, no, the playable characters are small. The Smash Bros. series doesn't always stay true to scale.
Source: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADRUqFvxcSrIQ

There was other one like this that said the same thing but I mention them just because it might be related even though nothing clear can be said. Though, that just shows that they had to resize contents to fit with the game.

So, even with that video, before that day, I could say Ridley was somewhat likely due to request and importance in his series. However, that day changed forever what is something that is still true today: objectively 50% hazard and 50% playable. On that day, Sakurai released his usual POTD...



Now, the Japanese post referred the "Samus's enemy" as "Samus's trauma" which basically is undeniable: he was talking about Ridley. It made some people believe he was hazard but in theory, it just can't be sure for both side.

Check his sentence carefully: "An enemy from Samus's past may appear at any second…". "may appear at any second" isn't clear at all because it can either mean "may appear at a particular moment on that stage only" or "may appear at any second" as "whenever you feel like". The former is a valid interpretation while the later is the literal meaning. It's so ambiguous that it could even mean to just allude to Ridley appearing on that stage in his game but to even allude him at all in this way raise a red flag. It's subjective but it feels like he's trying to hide him by not even mentioning as "Ridley" which is literally what he's called.

Because of this, it created a weird chance situation by being completely unsure and this is why it's called since this day "an objective 50/50". With speculation, it changes depending on what you think but this means that saying 0% or 100% is objectively false.

Though, since it's been a month that the big controversy spread, it build enough so that this quote made it even worse. Now, haters use this as a definitive proof of him being an hazard while the supporters got that it can't be certain. This created even more controversy and so, more speculation and Ridley is more known. The statement wasn't clear that it did that on purpose but we had to wait until April to know that. I also want that you remember that it was at the same time that the stage was revealed, that will be useful to know later in my essay.

August 20 to April 8: denial of acknowledgement

This period for Ridley was... bland. Because it literally SHOWED nothing new about him. I said showed because for some reasons, a TONS of Pyrosphere images was released during that period. Even one that really has absolutely no reasons to be showed and it was that hole not supposed to be visible in the game. So, it's weird how he allude to him being a/an ??? and months after, no talks of him like he never alluded to him. Although, he already did something similar with the Super Mario Galaxy stage and several other instances that got their case in April 8. It shows that Sakurai likes to use teasing and time to create speculation and hype before revealing everything.

Usually though, we hear about almost nothing in that denial of acknowledgement period like several other reveals including the Super Mario Galaxy one, Palutena's Temple, living it now with Pokemon League and recently, the Ultimate Ghost as hazard. You could even add any newcomer reveal due to how much time he waited before revealing one after little mac. All those reveals had all in common one thing: Sakurai teased to left us in the dark so that it creates a surprise effect when revealed which bring more hype. He even stated in an interview that he doesn't like to mislead people while talking about games in general on twitter.
I don't like it when a tweet or whatever leads to needless speculation getting spread around," he wrote. "For example, when I tweet about playing some game, some people immediately get the idea that that character is in the new Smash Bros. Then people fan the flames on it, people start to think it's really true, people get angry about it. Nobody benefits.
Source: http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/12/3...ling-twitter-whiners-and-oh-yes-the-new-smash

Why I'm telling this? Because hearing nothing in itself while showing the stage is weird. It seems like his waiting period was more on Ridley which we heard nothing and less on the stage which we keep seeing. If it was indeed true, it would mean that Ridley isn't necessarily on that specific stage but such a statement can't be proved and it's not even clear if he's teasing because the quote wasn't telling any sort of teasing. So, fishy but it doesn't change anything as both sides are still stuck in 50/50. The controversy rose again because of that which is history repeating: more talks, more speculation = more hype.

On April 8 however, it got forever frozen like that...

April 8: 10 seconds of footage, 10 times more controversy

Ok, I'm going to talk about the most talked footage and the most controversial thing Sakurai ever showed.

So, in April 8, with a 4 days tease, everyone is really hyped like RARELY hyped for a 40 minutes of info ONLY of SSB4. The whole direct was very entertaining to watch with Sakurai making jokes and revealing good stuff (which worked better due to previous teasing like smash run teased since the first trailer).

But that's not what made the biggest speculation; it was 10 seconds... of mystery.

When Sakurai talked about stages, he introduced in more depth than before yellow devil, a known hazard. He did showed him before and already told he was an hazard so he just told new info on him and there was no secrets on him now. Everything was usual since all his statement was objective and so, are true.

But RIGHT AFTER, he showed 10 seconds of Pyrosphere with Pickachu running away from...Ridley's...shadow??? All this while stating "Other boss characters make appearance in other stages, not just this one". It's implied that "not just this one" is yellow devil.

Now, most people (including myself) and I mean MOST people's first reaction was "Ridley is confirmed as an hazard on Pyrosphere". However, it just take a single re watch to tell that it still can't be proven.

The whole 10 seconds clip is filled with suspicious and ambiguous evidences. The only thing we really know is that because you can see his tail in some frames, you can tell that it's none other than Ridley from Metroid other M.

First, his size: it's not really what you think. I saw the SHADOW size, not the REAL size. In real life, a shadow can alter significantly sizes compared to their real elements but games with engines that simulates lights can produce a similar effect. Not only that it may not be his real size but research on it proved that he was actually smaller than what we tough.
Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...m-the-mod-squad.324284/page-637#post-16728288

It proves that he COULD be playable with this size. Though, even if it does prove that downscaling was done, it still doesn't clearly tell me if he's playable or not.

After, his behaviour: I don't know about you but it seems to move awkwardly. It gives a feel of being not fluid. Though, I saw some people claim he jumps or that he would grab Pickachu which wasn't clear for me but even if it was, it still doesn't clearly tell me if he's playable or not.

Next, the sound: why do I hear only Sakurai's voice and not from the footage but I hear both in the section about yellow devil? This is where it gets very suspicious because it seems like he was hiding what happened. Maybe I could confirm what happened if I did hear sounds that only one fate would make sense but because I don't hear it, I don't know what he was hiding if he did hide something. So, again, it still doesn't clearly tell me if he's playable or not.

Finally, Sakurai's word: they are double meaning like the rest. It's practically the same as August 20. It could be interpreted as "Other boss character (which includes Ridley) makes appearance on other stages (which includes Pyrosphere)". Now, this is valid because he's shown on Pyrosphere when he said that... like August 20. The other way is to literally take what he said: "Other boss characters (which MIGHT not be Ridley) make appearance on other stages (which MIGHT not be Pyrosphere)". Complete opposite but if the later was the right one, this would be technically true with ultimate ghost on find Mii. So, it could even implies that Ridley is NOT an hazard but again, because like August 20, it was too ambiguous to tell so, it still doesn't clearly tell me if he's playable or not.

Ok I think you got where I'm going. I keep repeating the same sentence at the end of every evidences explanation, even those that could implies hazard from first look. The keyword is CLEARLY. In no way those 10 seconds showed me anything clear about the role of Ridley in the game. However, don't you feel it's August 20 all over again? That quote though on the direct... it's way too obvious that it was made on purpose like everything in the direct was. The purpose? Hide him being a/an ??? in the game by using ambiguous and double meaning evidences. I still don't know about his role but I know he hides something about that said role. It might seems silly to think that such an elaboration could be done on purpose so, let's look at his behaviour generally.

Sakurai's behaviour

Yes, his behaviour shows clearly that he COULD have done that on purpose.

First, did he acknowledged Ridley and fans request? Well, he stated in the developer direct "at last, the long awaited villager" so he did for villager. Little mac was unpopular in Japan while it was the opposite in the West and he included him anyway so there's no favouritism here. What really tells that he cares about his fans is this:
"The amount of stress I feel, it's almost to the brink of death," Sakurai says of designing Smash Bros.'s character roster. "Because it's not just a matter of me personally thinking this character or that character is going to be in the game; it's that we also have the game balance, animation, graphics and sound to think about in order to make that character fully fleshed out in that universe. I have to think about all of that when I go through this decision-making process."
Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection

So, how could he have NOT know about him while it's one of the most requested character and is the most controversial one AT THE SAME TIME while he did for less popular character? Honestly, with what he knew, he would have to blind to not be aware at the slightest.

But the direct itself is so obvious here's a list:

  • "Yes I'm still alive"
  • Both Iwata directly jokes
  • Showing Waluigi figurine when talking about assist trophies (a reference to how he was deconfirmed despite people trying hard)
  • The subsitute joke
  • The pseudo Palutena faking as Palutena
  • The Zero Suit Samus (aka: ZSS) being deconfirmed for 5 seconds (this is the most obvious one)
  • Showing figurine and objects of games (like showing a Pokeball instead of just talking about them)
  • The little bye bye gesture at the end
Not only it tells you that he prepared his actions just for his fans but also tells that he did hide teasing playable character (ZSS for 5 seconds deconfirmed to then find her playable and Palutena as an almost deconfirmation and ended up playable). So it's not "silly" to say that he may have done that for Ridley but it's still a 50/50.

Ok, until now, I proved that it's still an objective 50/50 so you can't be sure about any side you pick. So, why I claim to find him "pretty likely"? It's because I talked until now about EVIDENCES based arguments. But if I view this from a LOGICAL point of view, it points to only one side despite still being subjective. The difference though is that it not only contradicts Sakurai himself which is our most trusted source but also makes the hazard possibility no sense.

So, the following is subjective but it's based on a hard and solid logic...

Let's assume he's an hazard from now on.

Most suspicious evidence: the existence of the shadow itself

Yeah you read that right: that shadow shouldn't be on the clip if he was an hazard. Why?

Remember that statement ha made about not liking to unintentionally mislead people on twitter? Well, the shadow would do the exact opposite as it misleads both sides. Not only that but that statement is true by the way he deconfirms.

And here, all, ALL deconfirmation was done with something that makes it CLEAR, UNDENIABLE and OBJECTIVE. It's so direct that's like killing you with a gun on your head instead of torturing you to then kill you slowly after. This was even true after the direct so it's still true today.

Saying Ridley is an hazard is a deconfirmation so I should expect to only see him with something like I don't know an assist trophy where he came from or a quote that would say "FYI, he's a stage hazard and attack players" or showing his trophy with a weird pose for render. THAT is solid.

But seeing Ridley's shadow with a quote that might claim the opposite IS NOT SOLID. If he was an hazard, I would've have been able to prove it now but I can't so why he's doing this if he doesn't like to mislead?

What raise the big red flag is between August 20 and April 8. That's MONTHS of pictures of Pyrosphere with no Ridley from head to feet in sight. We JUST receive pictures of it and I still don't see him from head to feet. The only thing I saw that was physical is his tail but that alone doesn't prove anything only that it's Ridley but not what he does.

I talked about how he showed more on stages than Ridley right? He does the opposite if it's teasing he should NOT have shown the stage. So, August 20, I'm teased but I don't know why. Wait months, no info on Ridley but tons on stage. April. Don't see Ridley but only ambiguous evidences that aren't clear. After all this, he would be deconfirmed?

How seriously does that make sense with all deconfirmation he did? Skull kid: assist oh btw, assist aren't playable -> clear
Every assist in the direct: implied to act like assist -> assist = not playable -> clear
Wonder red: his original render on trophy -> used as a show off purpose -> not playable one -> clear

I think I made my point. I already proven that Ridley case isn't clear so, if he was an hazard, the latest Sakurai could've shown him from head to feet and be consistent is on April 8. Every speculation would've stopped, we would know, Sakurai is happy, everyone is happy. Maybe not supporters but remember: torture or direct kill with gun? The later is shorter and you don't suffer so in a sense, it's an happy situation.

But what he actually did on April 8? Ambiguous statement and evidences that points to an impossible verdict which brings more speculation, debates, flame war and so, more talk about the game.

That's the complete opposite of a deconfirmation. That is not something you do unintentionally and with how Sakurai planned things before, he just couldn't such a big "mistake" as this one.

So, the shadow doesn't belong in the direct since I would've either not have saw the clip and see Ridley later OR, he would have shown it BEFORE but with how many time he could have done that and didn't, he just had to intentionally not show him.

This sounds weird but since the shadow logically contradicts our most trusted source, it shouldn't be there. Same goes for the quote since I would have either heard of him before and not see the quote or it would have been a clear quote which is the opposite of what I have now.

So, what's left with no sounds, no shadow and no text?

The stage: Pyrosphere. Wait, that's weird: this is the same stage that bring big speculation on August 20 and the same one we saw a lot without any sign of Ridley and now, I see the same stage as the only thing left that would make sense if he was an hazard?

The culprit: Pyrosphere

Yes, I can go THAT far.

When you think about it though, it makes sense since it's because I saw the shadow with that quote ON THAT STAGE that I tough first he was an hazard. But, let me tell what happen with this stage: it's too convenient to not have been planned all along. Pay really close attention to words in capitals.

Pyrosphere was made to represent THE SAME LOCATION when you fight RIDLEY AS A BOSS in the original game. This SAME STAGE was REVEALED on August 20 when he ALLUDE TO HIM AS AN ENEMY and that he may appear in some way AT THE SAME TIME. Then, we see THE SAME STAGE tons of time for MONTHS WITHOUT ANY SIGN OF RIDLEY. Finally, we see THE SAME STAGE in a 10 seconds clip with RIDLEY'S SHADOW and a quote that TALKS ABOUT BOSS CHARACTERS.

Now, there's a huge problem if he's an hazard: the paragraph above just CANNOT be coincidence. The stage had to be CHOSEN, USED and PLANNED for a reason. HOWEVER, we know that the shadow and the quote should not be in the direct. So, the stage has no reasons to be there if it was an hazard but we know there is a reason to be there.

There's only one possibility left: The August 20 quote was alluding to something else...

Ridley's home stage: Pyrosphere

But since it's not for hazard purposes, it's for playable purposes.

Ok, before you're telling that I make assumption, just view his situation with that statement it makes sense:

So, AS SOON AS Pyrosphere is revealed, he would've have said that it was Ridley's home stage but by not mentioning him and having an ambiguous sentence, he spawned speculation which brings more hype for teasing his playability. After months, we see his home stage without any sight of him thus, more hype and speculation. Finally, in the direct, we see his home stage with his shadow which is used to tell something secret which is hiding his playability and a misleading quote so even more hype and speculation.

See? The August 20 quote was telling that Ridley may appear on the stage at any time because that's his home stage. Since the paragraph above makes sense and is possible while the hazard one doesn't and was based on the presence of the stage, That's why I believe that...

HE'S PRETTY LIKELY TO BE PLAYABLE!!!

But before I finish, it even explains what happened at E3...

From E3 to today

Not acknowledging him is repeating the pattern he made since August 20: tease, wait, tease more and we are now in a wait. So, he could tease more from now on on that stage again and if it happens, I will consider him almost confirmed which would be 99% playable.

Not showing that stage is raising a bigger red flag. He wouldn't want that we know the truth since he's trying to hide it. And only Wii Fit trainer stage was revealed before it and wasn't in the demo but then again, that stage wasn't showed as Pyrosphere. So, he's still hiding us what he alluded to be the opposite on first look: he's playable.

When you think about it, the not playable arguments were based on an ambiguous assumption which was seeing his shadow on Pyrosphere where he was a boss with a quote saying so. If it wasn't for the shadow but himself, I would've believed he was an hazard because I really saw him with a quote that could only view that as hazard.

When he would be revealed?

I really have no idea: anything could happen except scheduled Nintendo direct or live streams. He could even wait until release and put him as unlockable just to make the maximum hype he could get.

FINAL VERDICT

DISCLAIMER: The following statement is subjective and it tells what I THINK will happen according to the way I see it and not what will happen OBJECTIVELY.

"RIDLEY IS [PRETTY LIKELY] TO BE A PLAYABLE CHARACTER IN SUPER SMASH BROS FOR WIIU AND NINTENDO 3DS AND IT WILL BE REVEALED EITHER ON SCHEDULED NINTENDO LIVE STREAM OR HE WILL BE UNLOCKABLE AND WE'LL KNOW ON SEPTEMBER 13 AT THE EARLIEST" - Aldelaro5 July 12 2014 at 2 am ET

< /REALTALK >
  • DDD Post. Not much to say, overall great post by @ddd87
Hello fellow Ridley smashers! Since his "deconfirmation" in april, Ive been looking at many of the discussions on the webs.... And most are so basic and boring. Only here Ive seen things like Ridley's shadow not being as large as it seems, and plentiful of other better points than Ive seen elsewhere. Ive been lurking this thread since quite awhile, but I got finally compelled to join here now, so I hope there is space for a late pirate :b:.

Im going to start with a rather big post, so I hope it can actually contribute to the discussions, here and elsewhere.

Something I noticed from looking at the larger gaming sites (gaf, miiverse, gfaqs, youtube) is that the arguments are so poor, for both contrarians and supporters, which is something that drives me nuts. One particular point I may have seen, is consistently forgotten by pretty much everybody, even here Ive not seen it brought into attention. Its not directly related to Ridley thought, probably thats why :p.

Ive been thinking about this for a few days already, and its a long read. If anyone feels my post is a little too large just skip to the second spoiler.


It may seem more fitting for another topic, but I want to talk about another one of Sakurai's antics. One that managed to fool many. If Ridley is the man's number one troll, this one has to be the top second:

On December 26th, Sakurai confirmed Zelda as a returning character. Her profile was also updated on the official page with a couple of new images. One of them stood out among the rest.


This image generated a lot of speculation, "Is it an Assist Trophy? A new move for Zelda? Is Sheik gettin cut???". For months there was no new information about this image, and since it wasnt revealed in a PotD post, it had no context to work with. Other pics with Zelda were shown, confirming she still had her Up and Side B moves, and there was another profile picture where Zelda has the same pose but there is no Phantom. Some people thought this actually was Zelda's Down B, replacing sheik's transformation, but it wasn't the most popular opinion. It didn't make much sense.
Zelda changing to Sheik has been her main gimmick since she was introduced in Melee, taking that away seemed more like something the "no-fun-allowed Project M guys" would do. Moreso, there were some pictures where Zelda is striking weird poses, that looked like her transform animation. It was more logical that this was just a conveniently placed AT or replacing another of her specials (like Nayru's Love since it was never shown).

Four and a half months later, the April direct released the megaton: The transformation mechanic had been removed entirely from the game. The "Phantom Slash" was indeed Zelda's new Down B, and Sheik was promoted to "full" playable character.


So what about this?
Its easy to figure it out now in hindsight, but back then it wasn't obvious. With this picture Sakurai was spoiling a major game changing feature, that affected not just Zelda and Sheik, ZSS and PT's pokes as well, but for months many didn't think about it and shruged off arguments pointing out oddities in the picture. People looking too much into things perhaps?

There is another detail about the picture that I'd like to point out: The only visual effect in the image is the slash attack.

This is how the Phantom Slash looks like in more recent pictures:


The move has many more visual effects than in the original one, Zelda and the Phantom have purple energy emanating from them, and both characters leave wind trails in their motions. Now look at this picture again. There is absolutely no doubt that the Phantom is coming out of Zelda.

None of those visual cues are in the older picture. It is obvious that the move had an aesthetical upgrade since its december spoil, as the slash trail has a different color and actually follows the sword trajectory. Now, what if the image in the profile picture was choosen for this reason? With the second one, its clear that the Phantom is a part of Zelda's moveset somehow, but with the original one there is more room for doubt. Even if the older build had more effects, it wouldn't be too hard to remove them with the debug menu. I believe that the profile pic wasn't a screw up either. I think it was deliberately made to spoil the move without making it so obvious, why release it alongside another picture with Zelda making the same pose but with no sight of the Phantom then?

Even using the more recent builds, without context, its not exactly clear what is happening there. If Sakurai had explained what was going on, people could have figured out not just the Zelda/Sheik change, but perhaps ZSS' and Charizard's promotion as well ("So why are we having Sheik becoming a separated character all of a sudden?")

However that didn't happen, and for months, Sakurai was able to keep this stealth spoiler unnoticed for most people, because the more logical explanation was easy to believe, other characters have items and stuff in their profiles too (Zero Suit Samus does not burst into flames and grows bunny ears as part of her reworked moveset ;)). The fact that there were other images that disproved this idea made it even harder to entertain.

If you want to hide something from someone, just put it right in front of them.

So how does this relate to Ridley?
Let me point out right now that Im not claiming that this sneaky spoiler is a similar situation to this 10 month-long Ridley tease. They are not identical or even similar. Sakurai did not show Sheik's shadow after an AT segment, nor did he hinted at Sheik being removed from Zelda's moveset when revealing her last year.

That said, I find some useful points of comparison here and there.

Many dismiss Ridley fans looking into ways to interpret Sakurai's words, as they are "looking too much into things", the most logical conclusion is that Ridley is a hazard. This is something I myself believed about the people analizing the Phantom picture who thought it was her new Down B. Some did saw how the Phantom was way too detailed to be an AT, it didn't even look "toony" like its PH counterpart, and others pointed out how unfair is to play with characters with "one less special move" and would gladily accept Sheik and Zelda being separated. They were right. The people who took the logical explanation as the real one, or the ones that used other images/facts to counter the theory fell for the trap.

A common counter to the Zero Suit Samus troll is that it only lasted a few seconds and its nothing like this months long hazard tease. But what about this though? This troll spoiler has been going on for months, people didn't know if Sheik was getting cut or not because of the Phantom, and even now we still don't know just how much this mechanic removal affects the other two remaining pokemons, or even the Trainer itself. While ridley has been "hinted" as being a Pyrosphere hazard since the stage's reveal, we still know nothing about it because we haven't got a good look at what it actually does.

What about Sakurai only teasing NPCs? We have seen him tease Xerneas before, but he didn't do anything like this for playable characters, wether new or veterans, we don't get any mention of them until they get revealed. Not only this is already false by things like the Boxing Ring or the Halberd stages, but the Phantom tease also can be applied to this. Everybody knows Zelda's Down B is transforming to Sheik, but the image put that into question. We were staring at a major character change, that extended to other unrevealed figthers too, yet it was still a surprise to most when it was actually confirmed.

And what about the "unfinished hazard" theory? Sakurai doesn't seem to have a problem revealing rough/unfinished material, as the Phantom Slash proves. The energy arch doesn't even follow the sword's motion. If that was in the retail game it would look really lazy, but it was a work in progress, and the latest build shows it looks much better now. Even if Ridley wasn't fully finalized, that fact wouldn't have stopped Sakurai from showing him either on a direct or a PotD.

Does this post helps Ridley's chances?

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But I think that, even if he does end up being a hazard, what I get form this is that people will still have had every reason to look more into things, lest we actually had a reveal right under our noses but never noticed it, because it was easier to just accept the more obvious explanation.
Personaly, Im not as optimistic as some are here, but man, I hope the outcome is as good as the Phantom tease.
  • Great Post by @majora_787 on why it makes 0 sense for Sakurai to be hyping Ridley as a stage hazard
Well that's not so much what I mean.

It's the entire notion of Sakurai teasing Ridley as a boss on Pyrosphere. This means that he is expecting newfound excitement in three things:

1) He is expecting new excitement from something which has literally been done in a different fighting game. Ridley was a boss / hazard on this exact stage in Dead or Alive Dimensions.
2) He is expecting new excitement from a character being in their standard role. Ridley has never been playable before. He was even a boss in the last Smash Bros. game. This is literally going, "Nothing's new! Exciting, huh? HUH??"
3) Sakurai must know boss hazards are not full grade boss battles. They are basically stage hazards you attack. So this is Sakurai teasing a character to be in a DOWNGRADED version of their normal role.
4) The entire notion of Ridley being a boss on that stage means he is a slow, small boss on a stage ten times his size. That's not pointing to good design.
5) Ridley is the only boss to receive this treatment. Dark Emperor and Yellow Devil were explicitly shown and had attention brought to them as soon as their stages were revealed. With Pyrosphere, we had to wait eight months to get a brief shadow and no further acknowledgement.

SO this would mean... that Sakurai is hyping up ONLY one boss, namely the one people frequently request to be playable. He is also hyping up a boss that in concept is poorly designed, is nothing new, and is an objective downgrade from his previous roles.

That entire notion literally does not make sense at any point.

Sure it's *POSSIBLE* that this is the outcome we get. But if it is, I will be EXTREMELY disappointed in Sakurai, and not even because he didn't make Ridley playable.
  • Post by @Zem-raj on how Sakurai will usually outright dec-confirm characters, instead of being vague, which happens to be what he is doing with Ridley
It does seem strange how:

Disconfirmed characters
Waluigi - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct. (Source)
Ashley - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct. (Source)
Starfy - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct. (Source)
Samurai Goroh - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in the SSB Direct. (Source)
Dark Samus - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in the SSB Direct. (Source)
Dillon - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD. (Source)
Midna - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct. (Source)
Isabelle - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct. (Source)
Phosphora - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown in a PotD, role later revealed in another PoTD/screenshot. (Source / Source 2 (As Assist Trophy))
Chrom - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified (through gameplay) in the video yesterday. (Source / Source 2 (Confirmed to not be playable by Nintendo to IGN))
EDITOR UPDATE Takamaru - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown, and role specified in PotD (many thought he would be playable) (Source)

Ridley
Not named.
Not shown (we only saw his shadow and a tail (if slowed down the clip/stop).
Role wasn't specified, his was basically called a boss character without being directly referenced, implied to be doing something on Pyrosphere.
Teasing via a PotD, shadow in the direct, trophy quiz in the direct.
Loads of Pyrosphere pictures and many clips of footage of Pyrosphere that lack Ridley.
No Pyrosphere presence at E3 or in demos, and Sakurai didn't mention Ridley.

It's like Sakurai doesn't want people to get the wrong idea, and wants to get it out the way and say who is and who isn't playable. But then why is Ridley, written off by many as supposedly "dis-confirmed", getting different treatment from the rest...? And what's worth noting, after the confusion of yesterday's video, Nintendo went out their way to confirm to people that Chrom is not playable. Months after the SSB Direct, we have not heard anything from either Sakurai or Nintendo about Ridley. If he's meant to be not playable, why didn't they say it there and then? It just seems like a baffling strategy for Sakurai to do, if Ridley isn't playable, he should have said there and then, not drag it out for months on end and up to the Japanese release day, getting our hopes up and then destroying them afterwards. People want to know about Ridley, yet he's tip-toeing around the subject still... I seriously want Ridley playable, and not knowing any concrete information is what's really annoying about this situation, and it's getting to the point where I'm getting annoyed with Sakurai.
SHADOW EVIDENCE:

Coming out of general evidence, you may already be thinking differently than you were before. But if you're not, maybe this will convince you, it is actually what convinced me. What you are about to see is Shadow Analysis'. Yep. The exact shadow that people are saying deconfirmed him as a stage boss? Turns out, it actually works out in favor of supporters more than detractors. Have a look for yourself.

  • First up we have @Smashoperatingbuddy123 and his two phenomenal posts analyzing Ridley's shadow. In fact, this was the first post that began to turn me from "He's not in" to "He has a more for him than against him"
Alright, let's start with the most important thing in my opinion: his hand and tail.
Ridley's hand.

(Estimated)

Because these shadows are on a wall, the only thing that can distort it is a zoom in effect on the picture. But since the shadows mostly stay true to the size of the characters, these are at least 80% accurate to actual size, in my opinion.

.

but I'm probably off on the fill in, so keep that in mind.


Ridley's tail talon is no where near Donkey Kong's height. It is most likely only 1/2 ish of Donkey Kong's height.

and his hand is only 1/6 of Donkey Kong's height.

Onto the hand!

Judging by the hand picture, if we increase the size of the hand shadow by a few knuckles, doing so would most likely yield Ridley's size from Picture B.
As for his tail, it's most likely this size:

Left: This is the size of Ridley's tail in Other M as compared to Samus.


Right: This is the estimated size of Ridley's tail in Sm4sh as compared to Pikachu.

Credit to @Dalek_Kolt for this


Assuming the blob above is Pikachu, roughly six Ridley tails can fit inside Pikachu.
Therefore, Ridley's range of sizes are these, hardly boss-sized.

Ridley's largest size:

Ridley's smallest size:

Size comparison with Bigley and Smalley:


Bonus Yellow Devil comparison.
Head comparison:

his head is right there and my estimates are correct by his head size andkirbys shadow (which will be a little lower on this post)
is 2/3 or 1/2 ridleys head
Body Comparions:

Okay, I gathered a few pictures of as many character's shadows as possible. (If you want to help me with this part, you can find me some full shadow pictures of other characters that aren't being covered by other obstructing/obscuring objects.)

As I mentioned earlier, Ridley's wings make him look a lot bigger, so for estimation purposes, I excluded the wings for size comparison. Also keep in mind that these aren't 100% perfect.
Unfortunately, Smashboards is being EXTREMELY glitchy right here, so until a mod can do this themselves, or Smashboards gets a fix, I will have to link you to the exact post here, just look under the tab "Body Comparisons"

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-splounge-water.324284/page-637#post-16728288


  • Next up,we have the excellent Shadow Analysis by @Dalek_Kolt
I started with this picture of his tail shadow. I reasoned that this tail thickness is likely going to be the thickness of the real Ridley's tail, owing to the consistent shape and thickness across the stage and the overall tendency of shadows to become bigger, not smaller.
I then measured out that four Ridley tails was the sufficient number in order to equate the thickness of this brick on Pyrosphere.
I took an Other M Ridley model (because that was the most likely model and I wanted the hugest Ridley possible), bundled four tails, and scaled them appropriately on an top-down view of the Pyrosphere.
(Yes, I verified that the Other M Pyrosphere was roughly the same as the Smash Bros Pyrosphere, the only primary difference being that the Smash version was more octagonal.)
Anyhow, I lined up the two Pyrospheres, and...
There we have it! Ridley's Smash Bros. size.
And a quick size comparison with Samus for added effect.

  • This next one is in fact just pictures. But it is more than that. It is the best interpretation of Ridley's size based solely on the shadow. It is the most accurate representation of his actual size in game. Judging by this size, as well as his speed, it seems very obvious that Ridley is in fact playable. By @Angelglory
MISCELLANEOUS EVIDENCE/THEORIES:

Next up is, well, the rest of it! These are extra theories that don't belong in the general section but are great theories that show how Sakurai is potentially teasing Ridley!

  • First we got @Nietona with a great post summarizing the Trophy Theory. I actually specifically asked them to create this, so special thanks to them!
Now, the Trophy Theory.

During the April Nintendo Direct in 2014, four trophies were displayed. Tiki from Fire Emblem, Fi from The Legend of Zelda, Pseudo-Palutena from Kid Icarus, and King Kihunter from Metroid.

People have speculated these four trophies to hint towards four newcomers from the corresponding series. An example is this outdated image. Since then, Chrom has been disconfirmed while Lucina and Robin are newcomers.

Evidence for this theory comes not only from the confirmed newcomers Robin, Lucina and Palutena, but also from the relationships these trophy characters have to the confirmed and suggested characters.

Tiki is supposed to hint at Lucina and Robin, Pseudo-Palutena at Palutena, Fi at Ghirahim and possibly Demise, and King Kihunter at Ridley.

In Fire Emblem: Awakening, Tiki is a character that knew Marth, and mistakes Lucina for Marth; she is also a character that aids Robin and Lucina throughout the story. Robin and Lucina were later confirmed.

Pseudo-Palutena is a false version of Palutena and a boss in Kid Icarus: Uprising, and was later confirmed.

Fi is the counterpart to Ghirahim, being to Link what Ghirahim essentially is to Demise: a prominent helper, helping the other in achieving their goals, be it either saving the world or dooming it. She's supposed to hint towards Ghirahim being playable.

Finally, the King Kihunter Trophy hints towards Ridley. It's the Little Birdie's (Ridley's infant form's) screech that enrages the King Kihunter and causes it to attack Samus, which consequently causes Samus to kill it. It is then seen devouring the honey left by the King Kihunter, having used Samus' power to kill it for food. This is supposed to hint towards Ridley being a playable character.

Further support for this theory comes from the music played during these quizzes. During the quiz where Tiki was shown, the music "Id~Purpose" from Fire Emblem: Awakening played, which is a theme strongly linked to Robin's character. Robin was later confirmed, alongside Lucina.

The trophy of Fi had Ballad of Goddess, which is remixed with Ghirahim's theme on the Skyloft stage, further hinting towards Ghirahim.

The trophy of Pseudo-Palutena had The Return of Palutena playing. Palutena was later confirmed.

Finally, the trophy of King Kihunter had Ridley's theme from Other M playing. This strongly hints to Ridley.

With the evidence we have and what we have been provided, this theory is looking more and more likely by the day. If it is true, Ridley is extremely likely to appear as a playable character, alongside a Zelda newcomer.
  • Though I don't usually like theories with a deadline, I wanted to include this one. @BlueBubbee compiled a list of Metroid anniversary's in the month of August, this potentially could be the time for a reveal, though I would not be surprised if Ridley was secret till launch
Alright.

Metroid games in general released in August:

Metroid (August 6th 1986 JP, August 15th 1987 NA)
Metroid II: Return of Samus (August 26th, 1991 NA)
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (August 27th, 2007 NA)
Metroid Prime Trilogy (August 24, 2009 NA)
Metroid: Other M (August 31st, 2010 NA)

Looks like we have a spectacular lineup, especially for the North American crowd. This is looking good, guys. Nothing set in stone or certain, but good.
  • One more thing
Oasis is a goober.
you better ad me as a friend now @Phaazoid
And thus concludes the post! I may update it with some more posts along the way, but considering we're so close to launch, I may leave it as is and fix a few glitches.

Again, this post isn't to make you change your stance on Ridley, it is to shut up the "toobigots" and to prove that Ridley has more of a fighting chance than almost any other character in the running. Thank you for viewing my post. If you learned something, drop a like!
 
Last edited:

Oasis_S

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#3
Gonna have to nip that other one in the bud. Sorry ChronoBound.

SO YEAH, Ridley is pretty much inarguable. Don't even have to make a big post about it.

Guess I could post my moveset or whatever. I'll edit that in later.

Look, see, an edit:
[collapse=Moveset]This is how I see Ridley, by the way (FOR THE MOST PART HUSH ABOUT THE WINGS):


Attributes – Ridley is a large character, nearly the size of Bowser. However, his scrawny frame, useful for flying, keeps him from being as heavy. In fact, I’d say he could be as light as Wolf (the 14th heaviest character in Brawl) but no heavier than R.O.B. (10th heaviest character). His ground speed would be pretty good (Charizard (7th fastest) to Donkey Kong (9th) range). His aerial maneuverability in general would be among the top, probably similar to Yoshi. He can also jump five times. He can glide, but not wall cling, wall jump, or crawl.

Playstyle concept – I see Ridley as awkward on the ground, but amazing in the air. Jigglypuff’s king, if you will. His ground game in general would be damaging, and focus on sending opponents upward, but hard or risky to connect most of the time. In the air though, all of his moves are useful and quick, as well as being capable of comboing. Ridley’s aerial potential is why I say he should not be a heavyweight, as that may make him broken.

Entrance – A pair of glowing eyes appear out of nowhere. Ridley gives out loud roar as the rest of his body fades into visibility.

A – Quickly swipes with left hand claws. Fixed knockback. 4%-2%
AA – Follows up with right hand claws. Fixed knockback. 3%
AAA – Follows up with a quick bite. All together relatively good damage. 5%
Dash – Ridley spins above the ground (think Falco’s F-air) to lightly knock opponents upward. 10%-7%

F-tilt – Extends neck to bite. Awkward to connect due to the length of his neck. Could very well miss an opponent that is too close. Good damage and horizontal knockback to compensate. 12%-9%
U-tilt – Quickly puts his head down and lifts it upward over his body in an arcing motion. Flips opponents up into the air with fixed knockback. Naturally combos into U-smash. Does not hit behind him. 11%-8%
D-tilt – Sweeps the ground in front of him with his tail. One of his faster ground attacks and can trip opponents. 9%-5%

F-smash – Winds up his tail while charging, then stabs straight forward. Sweetspot at the tip which can KO. Awkward to connect like his F-tilt. Good damage and a bit of ending lag. 17-15%
U-smash – Breathes a single large burst of fire upward. Combos with U-tilt. Good damage and knockback. Does not hit to either side of him. 16%-14%
D-smash – Lowers himself and spins around once. While spinning he extends his tail outward and breathes fire. The fire does not have much knockback, but may be followed up by the tail at lower percentages. The tail is mainly what you want to hit with. It sends opponents up into the air. His slowest ground attack. This move recalls an attack from Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. Tail: 9%, Fire: 6%

N-air – Spins his tail around his body (clockwise when facing to the left). Think Meta Knight, Wolf, etc. Tip knocks opponents outward, while non-tip hits knock opponents at the angle they were hit. Combo potential. Mostly just gets opponents off you. Sweetspot: 13%, Sourspot: 7%
F-air – Stabs tail forward quickly. Already a good KO move, but a sweetspotted tip makes it even more so. Tipper: 18%, Non-Tipper: 12%
B-air – Twirls his tail closely behind his body for multiple (six) hits. Similar to Yoshi’s. 2% every hit, finishing hit is 5%
D-air – Stabs his tail downward. Tip sweetspots with a meteor smash. If not sweetspotted, it causes a pogo effect similar to Link’s. Sweetspot: 14%, Sourspot: 8%
U-air – Attacks with wing spikes. Slight upward knockback. Can probably hit with it a few times if you’re moving upward, like with Meta-Knight’s. 5%

Glide attack – A strong bite. As strong as Charizard’s. 12%

Pummel – While holding opponent by their head, he breathes fire on them. Relatively slow yet damaging among pummel attacks. 4%
F-throw – While holding opponent by their head, he quickly stabs them with his tail about five times, then with a sends them flying with a stronger sixth stab. Very damaging. 2% each stab, 4% last stab
U-throw – Grabs opponents with his talons and carries them into the air while swatting them twice with his tail. He quickly descends, slamming them into the ground with all his weight. Most damaging throw due to the high vulnerability. Opponents are sent upward after being slammed. 4% each swipe, 7% on slam
D-throw – Grabs opponents in his mouth, raises them upward and brutally slams them into the ground. Very damaging. 12%
B-throw – Stabs tail into opponent while they are in his grasp. He then flings his opponent, now impaled on his tail, behind him. 8%

Special – (Fireball) – When tapping the special button, Ridley releases a spray of four fireballs. They travel a relatively short distance for a projectile, and are essentially a wall of hitboxes. They do not do much knockback or damage. When holding special, Ridley releases a single large fireball. This fireball travels a longer distance, and causes more knockback and damage. When done in the air, the large fireball travels in a downward diagonal direction. If it were to hit the ground, a small damaging shockwave comes from the impact. His special can actually be used while gliding to fire up to four shots that “bomb” the stage. These do little damage and knockback. 2% each fireball, 5% on large one, 2% on shockwave
Side Special – (Command Grab) – Ridley flies forward a distance longer than Ganondorf’s side special, but with slightly longer startup. Ridley can only do this once in the air, but he will not be put into a helpless state. If the grab connects Ridley will essentially act as though he has a second normal grab. He can pummel opponents with his tail, and opponents can also break out of the grab. On the ground, “throwing” forward or back causes Ridley to drag the opponent across the ground for a set distance, racking up damage. At the end of the animation (he cannot fall off ledges during this) he will simply toss the opponent upward. You can also simply throw the opponent upward to begin with as a sort of “U-throw” option. Unlike Bowser and Ganondorf, Ridley has wings and does not have to plummet to the ground when connecting his command grab in the air. Again, while in the air it is essentially a second grab. There are no “F-throw” and “B-throw” options in the air, but you can “U-throw” opponents upward. You can also dive-bomb while holding the opponent as a “D-throw.” This will result in a suicide if done off the stage. Same percents as normal throws.
Down Special – (Reflector) – Holding down special charges up a reflector. While charging, you are vulnerable to any attack. Once the charge is complete, you can move around freely as though you have a Franklin Badge. Ridley’s skin darkens while you have these properties, accompanied by particle effects. All together, the charge time and effect time lasts about 3.5 to 4 seconds.
Up Special – (Fly/Unfly) – This move is similar to R.O.B. and Pit’s Up Specials. It works with Ridley’s five jumps. If you were to use Fly (and Unfly) five times, Ridley could no longer jump, and vice versa if you were to jump five times, you would not be able to use Fly. Pressing down while using Fly causes Ridley to Unfly. You are not put into a helpless state. You can attack with aerials normally while Flying, as well as after Unflying. Like R.O.B.’s “fuel,” you can only Fly for a certain amount of time – 3.5 seconds.

Final Smash – Meta-Ridley Transfo—**** THAT. SPACE PIRATE RAID: The camera zooms in on Ridley as he roars to summon two Space Pirate ships. The Space Pirates hop out to attack Ridley’s opponents. Think of them as enemies from Melee’s adventure mode. They have limited methods of attack, and can be attacked and killed themselves. The problem for your opponents is that there would be so many of them to deal with. The amount would depend on the amount of players, and Ridley’s damage. There would also be different kinds of Space Pirates that hop out. Grey pirates are the simplest to kill, with only a small amount of health. Green pirates have more health, Red have even more, and Gold pirates have the most. They all attack by shooting beams (which can be fired horizontally or diagonally upward) and jumping. Gold pirates can do a jump kick which has a lot of knockback. They disappear after a set amount of time.



Not even sure I agree with all of this anymore, BUT WHATEVER. There, the post is big like Ridley. HEELS.[/collapse]

Here's some size suggestion stuff courtesy of Mario_and_Sonic_Guy. I'd advise not even bringing up "he's too big" argument, because it's really dumb and no one wants to waste their time showing you why you're dumb just to here you say "OOOOHHHHhhhhh" or "Sorry, but I'm dumb and choose not to understand as a defense mechanism so I can feel like I'm right, even though I only believe the argument is true because I saw someone say it once long ago and it sounded kind of convincing at a glance so I believed it kind of like that time my brother told me the Earth's seasons are caused by the Earth's orbit being closer to the sun in the summertime." Just, I dunno, sit down for a minute, practice some critical thinking, and you won't make a terrible mistake. ANYWAY, here:
[collapse=Size Comparisons by Mario & Sonic Guy]Ridley & Mario



Ridley & Bowser



Ridley & Samus



Ridley & Ganondorf



Ridley & Charizard



Ridley & Groudon



Ridley & Zekrom



Ridley & Galleom

[/collapse]
[collapse=Size Comparisons by Mario & Sonic Guy]Ridley & Bowser (T-stance version)



Ridley & Ganondorf (T-stance version)

[/collapse]
[collapse=Size Comparisons by AngelGlory]
[/collapse]
[collapse=MORE SIZE COMPARISONS]


[/collapse]


I wrote this essay about Ridley back in 2010, so there is probably some dated stuff in there, but it basically sums up why Ridley is the most deserving newcomer at this point:

Smash Bros. is constantly referred to as being a collection of Nintendo’s “All-Stars” or rather the most important characters from its universes. Its biggest all-stars joined in the original with the main heroes of most of it’s A-list and B-list franchises joining in the original. Melee continued this tradition by having most of its newcomers be important characters from A-list series (Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Marth). Many were disappointed that more all-stars were not added with Melee. However, with Smash’s third installment it seemed to have rectified this. Important and recognizable characters such as Wario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Olimar, and Red (Pokemon Trainer) were added. Like with Melee two retros were added (Pit and ROB), as well as a slew of promotional characters (Lucario, Ike, Toon Link). For the first time third-party characters were added as well. Most people were satisfied with this roster, and many felt that there were few, if any, more worthy additions to be made to the overall roster of Smash Bros.

Perhaps the only character that comes to mind that is an “all-star” and has not been added to Smash Bros.’s playable roster is Ridley. Ridley is argued by many to be the main antagonist of the Metroid series (though was never the final boss with the exception of the Ridley Robot in Zero Mission). Ridley is often compared to Revolver Ocelot in that despite usually never being the final boss, he is almost always shows up somewhere in Metal Gear. Samus herself calls Ridley her arch-nemesis, and is the most recognizable and re-occurring character from the Metroid series outside of Samus herself. Ridley also happened to be the most requested newcomer among the Western Smash Bros. fanbase excluding Sonic. The Metroid series has had 11 games to date, and out of those 11 games, Ridley has been in 8 of them.

By comparison, most of the commonly requested characters for Smash 4 are either minor characters from A-list and B-list series or the main hero from a C-list series.

Ridley by contrast has continued to be make appearances in main Metroid installments. Even in the recently release Metroid Other M (which is not a spoilers considering he was known to be in it since its unveiling trailer back in 2009). Ridley is a being who strikes terror in even the hearts of those have seen and fought him (yes, even Samus) [lol i cant believe i wrote that back before Other M was released]. Ridley is even referred to as being, “The Cunning God of Death” in the Zero Mission instruction booklet. Ridley has shown himself to be on an almost magical level of coming back and that death has been more of an inconvenience for him rather than an end.

Ridley is probably Nintendo’s third most popular villain, with the only two holding more popularity being Bowser and Ganondorf. Also, unlike other Nintendo villains, Ridley has a deep personal connection with Samus, with Ridley having been the one to have orphaned Samus and murdered her parents. It was Ridley’s attack on her colony, that gave Samus the desire to become a bounty hunter, and to protect innocents from Space Pirate attacks. No other Nintendo hero probably has a deep hatred for the villain from within their own series outside of a few Fire Emblem games. Heck, in gaming in general, Ridley is unlike any other re-occurring villain (Bowser, Ganondorf, Dr. Wily, Dracula) in that Ridley usually never makes his entrance to the player at the end, but rather offers some faint “hints” that he is still there and waiting to strike at a moment when the player has forgotten about him (this is mostly evident in the Prime games).

Ridley lives up to his title as “The Cunning God of Death” in that like death, one can know of it inevitability (all people die, and in most Metroid games Ridley manifests), and like most people, humans are not sure what their demise will be just like how Samus does not know how Ridley will manifest himself in her latest mission. Like death, it can be a surprise (an accident or sudden bodily injury) or a build-up (like a terminal illness), Ridley following in the reaper’s footsteps either giving the player no indication of when he will strike, or sometimes leaving hints that he is within the player’s vicinity (such as the computer monitors with his head on it on Pirate Homeworld). Like death, Ridley can never be conquered, simply warded off for a time, eventually the reaper will call the name of mortals like how Ridley will return to torment Samus. Ridley’s sadism goes beyond that of sociopath, he is more like a force of nature, something that cannot be reasoned with, a monster, a force, that simply exists. Ridley’s continued existence is to prove to Samus that like saving your life from death’s claws, defeating Ridley is a temporary victory. At the back of Samus’s mind, does she wonder that Ridley will keep returning until he draws her last breath from her? Like death, Ridley is more than adversary for Samus, he is a part of her life and psyche, and a constant reminder of her own mortality and weakness.

Ridley despite being one of Nintendo’s most iconic characters from their A-list and B-list series has yet to make a playable appearance in Smash Bros. One of the most curious things about this is not only Ridley’s massive popularity but the fact that he has been in every Smash Bros. to date. In the original, he flew in the background to the Planet Zebes stage (King Dedede had a similar role in the original Smash Bros. in which he flew in the background the Dreamland stage). Ridley appeared again in the Melee intro fighting Samus (interestingly enough, Ridley was roughly the same size as Samus in the intro), and also appeared as a detailed trophy. Ridley was a highly requested character back during the Melee roster speculation days, however, the main excuse used by skeptics was that Metroid had been a series in long hiatus (however, defenders used the fact that two new Metroid games were on the way). Regardless, Ridley, along with many other highly requested characters (such as Wario, Diddy Kong, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Wolf, and Pit) did not get in Melee as a playable character.

However, unlike the other popularly suggested characters for Melee, Ridley did not make it in Brawl as a playable character. Instead, he appeared as two boss fights, had his old stomping grounds as an arena (Norfair), received two trophies, two stickers, and two remixes of his theme. Ridley, being the most requested character for Brawl (outside of Sonic), left many fans disappointed to find out he was unplayable yet again. Ridley soon found himself amid a crowd of mostly minor characters from more important series and heroes from minor series in regards to competing for a spot on Smash 4’s roster. However, the aftermath of Ridley’s boss status in Brawl came a new meme which proved to be Ridley’s greatest obstacle: “He is too big.”

There has been a great deal of apologist work done on this subject matter so I will not go particularly into detail about the inanity of it. Two important things to look at is that size has always been modified for Smash fighters. Ganondorf is usually twice the size of Link, however, in Smash, he is usually only slightly taller than him. Also, Bowser has become a giant in the main Mario series, however, he has been a playable character since Melee. Also, characters that are notable for their size such as Olimar, have also had their size changed (in series canon, Olimar is only the size of a quarter, yet in Smash he usually goes up to the knees of a lot of fighters). Not to mention, that in Melee’s intro, Ridley was given size and proportions that were similar to other fighters.

Regarding this issue, Sakurai (the creator and director of the Smash Bros. series) himself has commented on it. It is interesting to note, that Ridley was the only character that Sakurai has commented on regarding their absence from the roster. Here is exact text from the interview in which Sakurai commented on why Ridley was not playable in Brawl:

Nintendo Power: There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?

Sakurai: I think that would probably be pretty impossible. [Laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right? [Laughs]

In Sakurai’s own words he says he could have made Ridley playable if his team had put more effort into it, and considering that Sakurai’s team was pressed for time (he mentioned that he wanted to put more characters in, however, he could not do so due to time constraints). I also think Ridley was placed in as a boss primarily to give the Subspace Emissary so more star power. However, since Ridley being a boss is Smash Bros. (he has already been featured in two boss fights), is now old news, perhaps a fresher approach to Ridley in Smash Bros. would be for him to finally make a playable appearance.

Not to mention that even fans have been able to get Ridley to fit in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyvWCMZ4s60


Regardless, there is no one else left in the Nintendo universes that is as important and recognized as Ridley that has not been given a playable spot yet. Perhaps, the only characters that would have more star power than Ridley in regards to Smash 4’s roster would be a third-party guest newcomer such as Mega Man. Ridley is the last Nintendo all-star to not be given a playable position. The last important character from Nintendo’s A-list series to not be playable. Other characters may be requested from these series, however, they all lack the popularity and recognition that Ridley has.

Ridley has been my most requested Smash Bros. character for almost a decade. I have wanted him in Smash Bros. ever since I saw him in the opening trailer for Melee and I have been a fan of him ever since I player Super Metroid for the first time back in 1994. Truly, I feel there are no other important additions to be made to the Smash Bros. roster aside from Ridley. The only reason I am even following Smash 4 is in the hope that Ridley will finally be made playable. I am closing in on 10 years [now closing in on 12] since I wanted Ridley playable in Smash Bros. and so far Ridley has yet to make his playable debut in the Nintendo all-star franchise.

I am guessing that Sakurai’s next project after Kid Icarus Uprising will be Smash 4 considering that the Wii’s life cycle seems to be drawing near an end, with more and more people being curious as to when Nintendo will finally announce a successor to the Wii. Considering the DS’s life cycle was about six years, and the Wii is on a similar level of success to it. I am guessing the Wii’s successor will be released in late 2012. No doubt Nintendo will ask Sakurai to have a trailer prepared for the system’s Smash 4 in time for its announcement (though I can see it not happening) [looks like my pessimism won out]. E3 2012 could very well be the time in which we finally see Smash 4 [Could being the operative word, it didn't. Onward to E3 2013]. Usually, some of the most popularly requested characters for the previous Smash game are made into playable characters for its opening unveil. With Melee it was Bowser, Peach, and Sheik. With Brawl it was Wario, Meta Knight, and Pit. What all-stars are left besides Ridley? Smash 4 represents Ridley’s last chance for Smash. He has hardly any competition for spots and is by far the more recognized Nintendo character not yet playable. Ridley is one of the few reasons I am even anticipating a new Smash Bros. I am waiting for the last all-star, Ridley.

Thank you for your time in reading this piece, and I hope that others share my convictions about Ridley and his worth to be made playable in the next Smash Bros.

[collapse=Supporter list]Everyone with a brain pretty much.[/collapse]
 
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GTA_Hater_331

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#4
To Young Horsetail and Sol Diviner: What's with the stigma against me? Otherwise, I agree with everything you said except for one thing: When the time comes for future installments to add another character, the next one after Ridley should be Dark Samus to represent Echoes and Corruption.
 
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#5
Oh yes, I've been waiting for "that guy" to post a Ridley thread.

Honestly, I say his chances are quite high right now. He's the only real rep for the Metroid series that will bring in a Metroid antagonist as a playable character. Metroid has no other characters outside of Samus and ZZS. Sure, people can count hunters or supporting casts, whether it's Noxus, Gandrayda, Trace, Melissa Bergman, or Adam Malkovich as potential candidates, but it's Ridley who has had the most impact in the Metroid series, not just as a recurring antagonist, but his ties to Samus really cuts deep.

He started off a a cameo in the background in Smash 64, became a trophy in Smash Bros. Melee, then was promoted to the status of boss in Brawl, so it's a fair bet to say that the next step for the dragon-like Space Pirate leader is that of a playable character. And size, as
Mario_and_Sonic_Guy stated, is not an issue. In fact, I think the biggest issue would be animation, what with all of the intricate details to Ridley. But seeing as the Wii U is far above the Wii in power, and the fact they have more than just Project Sora developing Smash 4 (Namco-Bandai, in this case), there is no excuse to not include Ridley this time around.


To Young Horsetail and Sol Diviner: What's with the stigma against me? Otherwise, I agree with everything you said except for one thing: When the time comes for future installments to add another character, the next one after Ridley should be Dark Samus to represent Echoes and Corruption.
What stigma? When I said "that guy", I meant that one person who would finally make a Ridley thread, I didn't care who.

Before we derail the topic any further, my say on Dark Samus is that she can either be an alternate costume for Samus, or the developers will need to make sure they don't create a Samus clone; a Luigification is fine, but seeing what Dark Samus can do, it shouldn't be too hard.

Now with that out of the way, I would imagine Ridley's Down B to be similar - if not, identical - to his tail dragging move from his Brawl boss fight. When I think of Ridley's fighting style, along with his plasma breath, I also think of his tail. It doesn't have to be as devastating as it was in Brawl in terms of damage output, but the way I see it working is that the longer you hold B, the farther he'll drag his tail until he reaches the end of the platform. If the opponent's caught in his tail, they'll be dragged as far as Ridley can go. An idea for a "Ridleycide" is using the move off the stage and catching your opponent with the tip of the tail as he drags them downward toward the lower blast zone. Any thoughts?
 

GTA_Hater_331

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#6
What stigma? When I said "that guy", I meant that one person who would finally make a Ridley thread, I didn't care who.

Before we derail the topic any further, my say on Dark Samus is that she can either be an alternate costume for Samus, or the developers will need to make sure they don't create a Samus clone; a Luigification is fine, but seeing what Dark Samus can do, it shouldn't be too hard.

Now with that out of the way, I would imagine Ridley's Down B to be similar - if not, identical - to his tail dragging move from his Brawl boss fight. When I think of Ridley's fighting style, along with his plasma breath, I also think of his tail. It doesn't have to be as devastating as it was in Brawl in terms of damage output, but the way I see it working is that the longer you hold B, the farther he'll drag his tail until he reaches the end of the platform. If the opponent's caught in his tail, they'll be dragged as far as Ridley can go. An idea for a "Ridleycide" is using the move off the stage and catching your opponent with the tip of the tail as he drags them downward toward the lower blast zone. Any thoughts?
My apologies for accusing you. I agree that the Tailgrind would work better than the forward strike, and the Multi Missiles should be his >B instead. Egg Roll and Rollout involved characters either coasting to a stop, or speeding out of control until they stopped, but with this Tailgrind, it would work a lot like the Spinner from Twilight Princess, except no changes in speed, and Ridley could probably stop whenever.
 
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#7
I agree that the Tailgrind would work better than the forward strike, and the Multi Missiles should be his >B instead. Egg Roll and Rollout involved characters either coasting to a stop, or speeding out of control until they stopped, but with this Tailgrind, it would work a lot like the Spinner from Twilight Princess, except no changes in speed, and Ridley could probably stop whenever.
My point exactly. The trick, however, is making sure it isn't too broken where it comes out fast and can deal devastation to the opponent, or too useless where it becomes easily telegraphed and predictable, allowing the opponent to block and punish him too hard. That said, should the opponent block, Ridley can still keep going, but he'll just pass by the opponent as he continues to grind his tail, that way, it won't be too beast enough as it currently sounds in concept.
 

Oasis_S

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#14
I know right? Huge. I'll organize a better first post eventually, but I like just saying it how it is to get dumb people to try and tell the thread we're wrong, only to get TOLD.

What is there to even discuss?

Will Ridley be a starter or unlockable? If he's a starter, he'll be revealed early on. If he's unlockable, this thread is going to have it rough for like three or four years. There's good reason to make him either a starter or an unlockable.
 
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#15
With two Ridley threads, that just shows how much love Ridley gets. In my opinion, excluding Ridley in playable form for the next Smash Bros. would be criminal.

I know I already said this in the other thread, but why not have his Down B similar to his tail grind from his boss encounter in Brawl? I can't really see Ridley using some deflector, though I can also see the argument that:

A) He's using Space Pirate tech.
B) Other characters, like Fox, never had reflectors prior to their Smash Bros. debut.

Still, the moveset's rather nice.
 

Oasis_S

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#20
YEAH, but you could have said the same about Bowser or Dedede. With so few BIG NAME characters left, feels like having K. Rool and Ridley as starters would be fine. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, you need some surprises like Mewtwo to be unlockable as well.

It's kind of a tough call. THOUGH, assuming Charizard stays, which I completely expect, perhaps having THE OTHER DRAGON unlockable makes sense. I mean, not really the most satisfying of reasons, buuut. Variety.


Also wow, I forgot I even made his down special a "deflector." BUT SOL. It's something he did in Other M. Just something his body is capable of, not anything to do with technology.
 

Holder of the Heel

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#21
You can't exactly compare Ganondorf's shape with Ridley's. Moving that long limbed giant body is different than a tall humanoid running, there are no mechanical issues in the latter. Not saying it can't be done, but the different cases cannot be compared to each other at all.

@Oasis, yeah I see what you mean. I just see Ridley more so as a "boss" enemy like thing that must be unlocked, as opposed to King Dedede or Bowser who actually seem fitting to be among their protagonists. Getting ambushed by a newcomer Bowser or Dedede just wouldn't have the same affect as Ridley surprising you and attacking.

With a Metroid stage and the music, it would definitely have an amazing atmosphere. Possibly one of the best characters to be made unlockable in that sense.
 

Hyper_Ridley

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#24

I know I already said this in the other thread, but why not have his Down B similar to his tail grind from his boss encounter in Brawl? I can't really see Ridley using some deflector
He actually has a move like this in Other M. :bee:

On that note, I wouldn't be surprised if Ridley shows up in his Other M incarnation, which wasn't as lanky and therefore won't run into as many resizing issues.
 

Oasis_S

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#25
But Other Ridley is so god damn ugly. U3U

I'd rather we got nothing from Other M, aside from music I GUESS. What a troll move it is to make Ridley fans wait until after such a HORRID Ridley is designed to put him into Smash.

OH WELL, I will accept you no matter what, Ridley.
 

Oasis_S

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#29
If I had actually given the Specials names, I would have been very clever and called his command grab the "High Command Grab." Y'know, because he's part of the Space Pirates' High Command.

Strong.
 

---

Blue and Green
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#30
Finally an Oasis Ridley thread. So Strong.

The Command Grab gives me happiness.
Oddly enough that's pretty much how I picture him fighting. Running/Flying up and grabbing an opponent with his tail and just plain ripping them apart. FYI Ridley's fighting style in my head is similar to Firebrand's from UMvC3.
 

BKupa666

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#33
Ridley doesn't seem the type to be a super heavyweight, but I'd think he'd be at least heavier than Samus, rather than awkwardly lighter than her as a middleweight.

:phone:
 

Pieman0920

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#34
Ridley's actually quite emaciated, but it would be weird if he were light weight.

Anyways, Ridley has my full support, though I would expect him to be a hidden character, so I would also expect that if he were in, we wouldn't know for a while.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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#39
@M_S: Wolf is the 7th heaviest iirc
Actually, Wolf is 14th heaviest in Brawl.

Wolf is lighter than Samus. Don't you think a dragon who would have to be sized down to be playable ought to be heavier than the character he can drag along walls in one fist?
Lightweight characters aren't always considered weak though. Even if Ridley's weight is lower than Samus's, he could still back it up with raw power.
 
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#40
Ridley is the #1 character to get in SSB4. Metroid could use another rep, Ridley's wildly popular, has great moveset potential (SIZE IS NOT A ****ING PROBLEM), and is extremely significant in the Metroid series. If only one new character could be added in SSB4, it should be Ridley.
 
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