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ok, what the hell is "raise your dongers"?
Also this? =p
This sums up everything we've covered in the thread neatly with a fancy little bow on top. Good job!Ok, I think I've just about finished up my rather big analysis of Ridley's situation at this point. I tried to cover all the significant pieces of evidence that point towards Ridley being playable, and I think it turned out alright. Though I would appreciate any feedback from you all on how I could improve this in any way. I'd like to be able to have the most comprehensive analysis possible to use for defending Ridley.
Ridley. It's possible that this has been the single most controversial character topic in Smash history. For all the support he receives, there's also a huge number of people who believe that a playable Ridley is simply impossible at this point. Now, I'd like to tackle this topic myself, and perhaps give people a better idea of just what Ridley's chances are at this point. So, to start things off, let's take a look at Ridley's credentials.
Why should Ridley be in Smash?
For the very few of you who don't already know, Ridley is the main antagonist of the Metroid series, one of Nintendo's most successful series, and is the most recurring character in the series besides Samus herself. Within the context of the games, Ridley is the one responsible for murdering Samus' parents when she was a child, unknowingly creating his arch-nemesis in the process. In that sense, Ridley is the one who started the plot of the entire Metroid series. In almost every Metroid game, Samus has to constantly confront Ridley is some form or another, and somehow he is always able to come back and fight another day. Frankly, Ridley is a pretty important Metroid character, and by extension, is an important Nintendo character. As a result, he would be an excellent choice for Smash.
Now of course, there is a huge amount of controversy about why Ridley shouldn't be in Smash, which usually has to do with him being "too big." However, I do not intend to dwell on that topic, so here's my brief response to that issue: size does not matter in Smash, characters are resized all the time, and there is no reason that Ridley has to be an exception to this rule. Now, with that out of the way, I'd like to talk about about something else: the Ridley we've seen in Smash. Ridley is rather unique among potential Smash characters in that we have already seen him in the game. Or rather, we've seen his shadow, which was shown during a segment of a Smash Direct that talked about the appearance of other boss characters. Considering how Ridley seemed to be teased as a boss character, and considering how he was already a boss in Brawl, it would seem that the logical conclusion would be that Ridley is simply a boss hazard on the Pyrosphere stage, and therefore is de-confirmed. However, I believe that there is more to this than meets the eye.
So, let's take a look at a few points that show why this "de-confirmation" may not actually de-confirm Ridley, and that maybe, just maybe, this could actually help Ridley's chances.
1.) How Sakurai usually de-confirms characters
As unpredictable as Sakurai is, he does have a few patterns that he follows in how he handles some of his reveals. One of these is how he typically de-confirms characters. When he reveals that a character isn't playable, he is quick and to the point about it. He doesn't tease the character beforehand or allow for much opportunity for people to think the character in question may be playable, he just outright de-confirms them. Here are just a few examples of how Sakurai has previously treated non-playable characters.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYnZZEvggg
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlLqsgn_Q
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKluq9DPhw
As you can see, Sakurai is usually quite clear when he de-confirms characters, and it would seem that he likes to avoid creating unnecessary confusion or false hope amongst fans. This tendency of his was made even more apparent after the recent reveal of Robin and Lucina, when Nintendo made an official statement that Chrom would not be playable after he appeared at the end of Robin's trailer. So what about Ridley? It seems quite clear that Sakurai was teasing Ridley as a boss in that Direct. If that really is all Ridley is, why did Sakurai not clarify what he was? Even if he didn't want to actually show Ridley just yet, it would have been easy and beneficial if he just stated outright that Ridley would not be playable to avoid giving fans false hope. In fact, despite Ridley being heavily teased as a boss, we have yet to see any more of Ridley since the Direct. Despite being teased for almost a whole year now, ever since the reveal of the Pyrosphere, we have been given very little information regarding just what Ridley's role in the game is. If Ridley truly is a boss, there is very little reason for them not to show him at this point, and the way Sakurai has been treating Ridley does not match up at all with how he's previously de-confirmed characters.
2.) How Sakurai has teased newcomers
Just like how Sakurai has a certain method in which he de-confirms characters, he also has a certain method he uses to tease some of the newcomers we've seen so far. The best example of this is Palutena. Prior to her reveal, a new Kid Icarus stage was revealed that featured a Palutena statue. Along with the update came a comment that referred to the statue as a statue of "the Goddess of Light," which also mentioned how she was watching over the battlefield. This is rather interesting because Sakurai was clearly referring to Palutena, yet did not mention her by name, and the way he worded the comment almost made it sound like Palutena would just be a statue in the game. Later on in the Smash Direct, one of the Trophy Quizzes showed off a trophy of Pseudo Palutena, although at first it was shown from an angle that made the trophy look like the real Palutena. This gave a number of Palutena supporters a brief scare. At this point, it was clear that Sakurai was teasing Palutena in some way, and many believed that it was leading to an official confirmation. As it turned out, Palutena was indeed confirmed to be playable at E3.
Looking back, how did Sakurai tease Palutena? He hinted at her presence in the game (though never directly referred to her), and presented the situation in such a way that it appeared to some that she was not going to be playable, ultimately leading to her official reveal. This actually matches up quite well with how Ridley has been teased for so long; his presence in the game has been hinted at, though he has yet to be addressed by name, and he's been presented in such a way that it appears that he won't be playable. When you think about it, it makes sense for Sakurai to make it seem like characters people really want in the game are not playable, only to reveal them as playable later on. After all, it's much more exciting when a character you thought was unlikely gets in than when a character you thought was a guarantee is revealed. So perhaps Sakurai is doing what he did with Palutena to Ridley, in order to maximize hype when he's finally revealed.
3.) Ridley's size
Well, I did say I wasn't going to dwell on the topic of Ridley's size, but this is a somewhat different issue. As we all know, Ridley is a rather large creature, usually about twice Samus' height or more. Also, bosses in Smash are typically large, so that it's harder to dodge their attacks and easier for you to hit them. So, logically, if Ridley is a boss on the Pyrosphere stage, he would be large, and likely significantly bigger than a playable character. However, it appears that the Ridley we saw in the Direct may not be all that large. Basically, shadows on the Pyrosphere appear to be mostly static in size. Because of this, it is possible to get a rough idea of how big Ridley is compared to other characters. Here's an example of such a comparison (keep in mind that these are not 100% accurate).
Looking at this, it would seem that Ridley is relatively close to the size of Bowser. If that's the case, then that means that Ridley has been resized. Why would they shrink Ridley down just to make him a boss? Wouldn't that be counter-productive to making an effective boss? Speaking of effective bosses, that brings me to my next point.
4.) The Ridley we saw does not act like a typical Smash boss
In previous Smash games, bosses have typically followed a fairly basic attack pattern: stand still on part of the stage (usually the left or right ends), followed by either an attack or the boss moving to the other side of the stage while attacking (all this is usually done quickly). This is the basic pattern most bosses in Brawl followed (most notably, Ridley followed this pattern when he was a boss), and judging by how the Yellow Devil functions, it appears that pattern has carried over to this installment of Smash as well. So how does the Ridley we saw in the Direct act, and how does that compare to previous Smash bosses?
Well, Ridley starts out by flying in (slowly) from the right end of the stage, stops in the middle, does nothing for a few seconds, then (slowly) flies over to the left of the stage, and then immediately turns around and starts flying (slowly) towards the right. It's movements are also somewhat jerky and not very fluid.
First of all, that behavior does not match up at all with how Smash bosses typically function. What's most notable about how this Ridley acts is that, within the entire span of time he's on screen, there is no indication that he ever made an attack. Even his basic movements across the stage seem too slow to actually cause damage. That's a good ten seconds or so without a single aggressive move. That not only fails to match how bosses usually function, but frankly, that's just a bad boss design. This "boss" Ridley is essentially a mobile piñata. Not to mention the fact that this would be a very poor representation of Ridley, considering that he's usually a very fast and aggressive opponent in the Metroid games. If this is really a boss Ridley we're seeing, then it's a very poorly designed boss in practically every aspect.
Conclusion
So, what does this all mean? Well, we know that Sakurai usually goes out of his way to clarify when a character is or isn't playable, so it's odd that he has yet to officially de-confirm Ridley. We know that he can ambiguously refer to newcomers prior to their reveals and can tease them in such a way that makes it seem as if they may not be playable, which he has done for both Palutena and Ridley (though whether or not he's playable has yet to be seen). We know that the Ridley we saw in the Direct is not that large, meaning that he could possibly be at a playable size. And we know that the Ridley we saw acts very uncharacteristically for a Smash boss, or just well designed bosses in general. If Ridley really is a boss on the Pyrosphere, then that means that Sakurai, for almost an entire year now, has been teasing and hyping up a relatively small, slow, and fairly harmless boss version of a highly requested and controversial character. While that is a definite possibility, it seems somewhat unlikely. What is perhaps more likely is that Sakurai has been teasing a playable Ridley all this time, lowering our hopes in an elaborate attempt to maximize hype when Ridley finally makes his Smash debut.
So, what do you guys think?
A Ridley Bender? @
Phaazoid
confirmed for Avatar!
You people stalking me or something? lmao
I would ask as well, but I don't think I even want to find out.
You currently at SDCC Lizardon? Wicked cool!! I was able to go once in 2010. What's it like now?
My secret is revealed. I was a Ridley Bender all along
Gotta love that league community. And don't forget; "raise em if you got em!"
Dear god, the league of legends community was more toxic than random xbl players on CoD. Having been in both, I can tell you lol is a much worse scum pit, haha. At least in Call of Duty they stop at talking about your mom. On league it's all about anal fissures, and things that I would mention but I'm eating. No, if you ever play league, play with friends and mute everyone else, haha.
Crowded, as always. I've been going there since 2012 to see the panel discussions for upcoming movies, but this time I went so that I could try out the Smash demos at the hotel nearby.
Oh god, don't even joke about that. I think the world would die if that actually happened.
Nah XD I just happened to see that on Twitter a little while ago but wasn't gonna bring it up, then I saw @
Phaazoid
mention spotting you somewhere other than Smashboards so I figured I'd join in too lol.Hahaha, yes as I remember it was very crowded and involved many hours of waiting in line. I remember it being fun though.
So I just saw this, and I just wanted to let you know I'm currently writing an analysis for The Week in Review on Ridley, his playability, and how he would play. I already have a lot of points from here, but written in different ways, lol. If I had known you were making something like this I would've told you (I've definitely posted it in this thread at some point but I can't blame you for missing a post, this thread goes sooo fast)Ok, I think I've just about finished up my rather big analysis of Ridley's situation at this point. I tried to cover all the significant pieces of evidence that point towards Ridley being playable, and I think it turned out alright. Though I would appreciate any feedback from you all on how I could improve this in any way. I'd like to be able to have the most comprehensive analysis possible to use for defending Ridley.
Ridley. It's possible that this has been the single most controversial character topic in Smash history. For all the support he receives, there's also a huge number of people who believe that a playable Ridley is simply impossible at this point. Now, I'd like to tackle this topic myself, and perhaps give people a better idea of just what Ridley's chances are at this point. So, to start things off, let's take a look at Ridley's credentials.
Why should Ridley be in Smash?
For the very few of you who don't already know, Ridley is the main antagonist of the Metroid series, one of Nintendo's most successful series, and is the most recurring character in the series besides Samus herself. Within the context of the games, Ridley is the one responsible for murdering Samus' parents when she was a child, unknowingly creating his arch-nemesis in the process. In that sense, Ridley is the one who started the plot of the entire Metroid series. In almost every Metroid game, Samus has to constantly confront Ridley is some form or another, and somehow he is always able to come back and fight another day. Frankly, Ridley is a pretty important Metroid character, and by extension, is an important Nintendo character. As a result, he would be an excellent choice for Smash.
Now of course, there is a huge amount of controversy about why Ridley shouldn't be in Smash, which usually has to do with him being "too big." However, I do not intend to dwell on that topic, so here's my brief response to that issue: size does not matter in Smash, characters are resized all the time, and there is no reason that Ridley has to be an exception to this rule. Now, with that out of the way, I'd like to talk about about something else: the Ridley we've seen in Smash. Ridley is rather unique among potential Smash characters in that we have already seen him in the game. Or rather, we've seen his shadow, which was shown during a segment of a Smash Direct that talked about the appearance of other boss characters. Considering how Ridley seemed to be teased as a boss character, and considering how he was already a boss in Brawl, it would seem that the logical conclusion would be that Ridley is simply a boss hazard on the Pyrosphere stage, and therefore is de-confirmed. However, I believe that there is more to this than meets the eye.
So, let's take a look at a few points that show why this "de-confirmation" may not actually de-confirm Ridley, and that maybe, just maybe, this could actually help Ridley's chances.
1.) How Sakurai usually de-confirms characters
As unpredictable as Sakurai is, he does have a few patterns that he follows in how he handles some of his reveals. One of these is how he typically de-confirms characters. When he reveals that a character isn't playable, he is quick and to the point about it. He doesn't tease the character beforehand or allow for much opportunity for people to think the character in question may be playable, he just outright de-confirms them. Here are just a few examples of how Sakurai has previously treated non-playable characters.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYnZZEvggg
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlLqsgn_Q
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKluq9DPhw
As you can see, Sakurai is usually quite clear when he de-confirms characters, and it would seem that he likes to avoid creating unnecessary confusion or false hope amongst fans. This tendency of his was made even more apparent after the recent reveal of Robin and Lucina, when Nintendo made an official statement that Chrom would not be playable after he appeared at the end of Robin's trailer. So what about Ridley? It seems quite clear that Sakurai was teasing Ridley as a boss in that Direct. If that really is all Ridley is, why did Sakurai not clarify what he was? Even if he didn't want to actually show Ridley just yet, it would have been easy and beneficial if he just stated outright that Ridley would not be playable to avoid giving fans false hope. In fact, despite Ridley being heavily teased as a boss, we have yet to see any more of Ridley since the Direct. Despite being teased for almost a whole year now, ever since the reveal of the Pyrosphere, we have been given very little information regarding just what Ridley's role in the game is. If Ridley truly is a boss, there is very little reason for them not to show him at this point, and the way Sakurai has been treating Ridley does not match up at all with how he's previously de-confirmed characters.
2.) How Sakurai has teased newcomers
Just like how Sakurai has a certain method in which he de-confirms characters, he also has a certain method he uses to tease some of the newcomers we've seen so far. The best example of this is Palutena. Prior to her reveal, a new Kid Icarus stage was revealed that featured a Palutena statue. Along with the update came a comment that referred to the statue as a statue of "the Goddess of Light," which also mentioned how she was watching over the battlefield. This is rather interesting because Sakurai was clearly referring to Palutena, yet did not mention her by name, and the way he worded the comment almost made it sound like Palutena would just be a statue in the game. Later on in the Smash Direct, one of the Trophy Quizzes showed off a trophy of Pseudo Palutena, although at first it was shown from an angle that made the trophy look like the real Palutena. This gave a number of Palutena supporters a brief scare. At this point, it was clear that Sakurai was teasing Palutena in some way, and many believed that it was leading to an official confirmation. As it turned out, Palutena was indeed confirmed to be playable at E3.
Looking back, how did Sakurai tease Palutena? He hinted at her presence in the game (though never directly referred to her), and presented the situation in such a way that it appeared to some that she was not going to be playable, ultimately leading to her official reveal. This actually matches up quite well with how Ridley has been teased for so long; his presence in the game has been hinted at, though he has yet to be addressed by name, and he's been presented in such a way that it appears that he won't be playable. When you think about it, it makes sense for Sakurai to make it seem like characters people really want in the game are not playable, only to reveal them as playable later on. After all, it's much more exciting when a character you thought was unlikely gets in than when a character you thought was a guarantee is revealed. So perhaps Sakurai is doing what he did with Palutena to Ridley, in order to maximize hype when he's finally revealed.
3.) Ridley's size
Well, I did say I wasn't going to dwell on the topic of Ridley's size, but this is a somewhat different issue. As we all know, Ridley is a rather large creature, usually about twice Samus' height or more. Also, bosses in Smash are typically large, so that it's harder to dodge their attacks and easier for you to hit them. So, logically, if Ridley is a boss on the Pyrosphere stage, he would be large, and likely significantly bigger than a playable character. However, it appears that the Ridley we saw in the Direct may not be all that large. Basically, shadows on the Pyrosphere appear to be mostly static in size. Because of this, it is possible to get a rough idea of how big Ridley is compared to other characters. Here's an example of such a comparison (keep in mind that these are not 100% accurate).
Looking at this, it would seem that Ridley is relatively close to the size of Bowser. If that's the case, then that means that Ridley has been resized. Why would they shrink Ridley down just to make him a boss? Wouldn't that be counter-productive to making an effective boss? Speaking of effective bosses, that brings me to my next point.
4.) The Ridley we saw does not act like a typical Smash boss
In previous Smash games, bosses have typically followed a fairly basic attack pattern: stand still on part of the stage (usually the left or right ends), followed by either an attack or the boss moving to the other side of the stage while attacking (all this is usually done quickly). This is the basic pattern most bosses in Brawl followed (most notably, Ridley followed this pattern when he was a boss), and judging by how the Yellow Devil functions, it appears that pattern has carried over to this installment of Smash as well. So how does the Ridley we saw in the Direct act, and how does that compare to previous Smash bosses?
Well, Ridley starts out by flying in (slowly) from the right end of the stage, stops in the middle, does nothing for a few seconds, then (slowly) flies over to the left of the stage, and then immediately turns around and starts flying (slowly) towards the right. It's movements are also somewhat jerky and not very fluid.
First of all, that behavior does not match up at all with how Smash bosses typically function. What's most notable about how this Ridley acts is that, within the entire span of time he's on screen, there is no indication that he ever made an attack. Even his basic movements across the stage seem too slow to actually cause damage. That's a good ten seconds or so without a single aggressive move. That not only fails to match how bosses usually function, but frankly, that's just a bad boss design. This "boss" Ridley is essentially a mobile piñata. Not to mention the fact that this would be a very poor representation of Ridley, considering that he's usually a very fast and aggressive opponent in the Metroid games. If this is really a boss Ridley we're seeing, then it's a very poorly designed boss in practically every aspect.
Conclusion
So, what does this all mean? Well, we know that Sakurai usually goes out of his way to clarify when a character is or isn't playable, so it's odd that he has yet to officially de-confirm Ridley. We know that he can ambiguously refer to newcomers prior to their reveals and can tease them in such a way that makes it seem as if they may not be playable, which he has done for both Palutena and Ridley (though whether or not he's playable has yet to be seen). We know that the Ridley we saw in the Direct is not that large, meaning that he could possibly be at a playable size. And we know that the Ridley we saw acts very uncharacteristically for a Smash boss, or just well designed bosses in general. If Ridley really is a boss on the Pyrosphere, then that means that Sakurai, for almost an entire year now, has been teasing and hyping up a relatively small, slow, and fairly harmless boss version of a highly requested and controversial character. While that is a definite possibility, it seems somewhat unlikely. What is perhaps more likely is that Sakurai has been teasing a playable Ridley all this time, lowering our hopes in an elaborate attempt to maximize hype when Ridley finally makes his Smash debut.
So, what do you guys think?
Well, yeah, he did make it after the battle in Other M.
HYPE!!!!! Ridley for Godzilla 2
You can never have too many in-depth analyses about Ridley, I think.
Do they still have those huge bags??!!
After all, there just so much to analyze. I mean, just so much of Ridley. In terms of size. Because Ridley is really big.
Booooo...
I apologize for NOTHING
If you mean the bags that were big enough to carry Ridley in, then no, I don't think they're making them anymore.
Never apologize phaazoid, never apologize
I learned from the very best politicians. Only apologize if you were wrong; and no matter what, you are never wrong.
Awww what a shame, I loved those things. All comic con swag is good though.If you mean the bags that were big enough to carry Ridley in, then no, I don't think they're making them anymore.
The bags I used were pretty large, though.
that is stupid... and it makes no sense.
So you mean if it happens again... Dongers will be raised? That's what I'm hearing from that statement. Definitely the raising of Dongers. Knock' em if you got 'em.that is stupid... and it makes no sense.
also, i swear if i hear that stupid phrase one more time... EVERYONE is going down... andrea's rage will be like the mewling of a tiny kitten compared to my wrath!!!
For some weird reason, that made me think of this: BANANAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Master your donger, master the enemy
Which makes me think of this: OHHHHHHH BANANAAAAAAAAAAAAA
oh... you people... are really pushing it...
