Marilink
Smash Journeyman
That is the coolest thing I've ever seen.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion
- Thread starter Gunla
- Start date
SuperSmashKing009
Smash Ace
Did you foxtrot or you did running shadow sneak? Im sorry I couldnt tell.
Lavani
Indigo Destiny
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
- Messages
- 7,256
I use foxtrotting to start running shadow sneaks. Running shadow sneak triggers when you transition into running and start shadow sneak at the same time, so if you just do a dash and then
+ at the same time during the skid you get it every time, instead of having to aim for that frame perfect window where dash becomes run.
SuperSmashKing009
Smash Ace
Did you foxtrot or you did running shadow sneak? Im sorry I couldnt tell.
Yeah thats what I thought I just tested on DK and truly combos with him. With ZSS its little difficult for it to truly combo. It seems this works perfect with mid and heavy characters. We have do more testing with it. It kills really early off the edge of the stages.I use foxtrotting to start running shadow sneaks. Running shadow sneak triggers when you transition into running and start shadow sneak at the same time, so if you just do a dash and then
Marilink
Smash Journeyman
Oh man, Lavani, that is a great tip. Has that been mentioned here before?
Last edited:
Lavani
Indigo Destiny
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
- Messages
- 7,256
I know using foxtrotting to time it has been mentioned before, maybe it isn't known that it makes the timing that much easier though? I certainly didn't know about it until I tried to do that combo last night.
Marilink
Smash Journeyman
That is super useful.
Now if only it were easier to jump while Shadow Sneaking with the GCN controller...I spent so much time training my fingers to jump with Y that jumping with the control stick is a chore for me.
Now if only it were easier to jump while Shadow Sneaking with the GCN controller...I spent so much time training my fingers to jump with Y that jumping with the control stick is a chore for me.
Last edited:
KERO
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2012
- Messages
- 411
Wow, super glad that my hunch was right. Great stuff with the testing Lavani! It's a shame that I'm terrible with anything even resembling tech skill, but I might be able to get running Shadow Sneak down in about five months lol. This is a really awesome find, though.
KERO
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2012
- Messages
- 411
Another thing to keep in mind is that, since we need to be super precise with the combo, it may be worth it to keep delayed Shadow Sneak in mind if they shield the Shuriken. That way, we aren't forced into using the move at a specific time with them being right there to punish it if they do shield the Shuriken.
Ekans647
Smash Lord
Hey guys I'm back! For some stupid reason my account stop notifying me on this thread, but I checked and got it working again.
WS to RSS looks really cool. Is it a true combo?
WS to RSS looks really cool. Is it a true combo?
Marilink
Smash Journeyman
^It can be, check out the combo counter in Lavani's gif.
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
So I've gotten Bayonneta for Christmas and I love how campy and hilarious the game is and the gameplay is awesome and the story seems pretty interesting so far.
Which also means I'm getting absolutely no practice with Greninja lately. Bayonetta y u so good.
Which also means I'm getting absolutely no practice with Greninja lately. Bayonetta y u so good.
Sneak Frog
Smash Cadet
So here's what my secret santa got me,
![]()
I was thrilled to bits. So I now have both versions of this ninja frog of ours and the life-size Froakie. All I need now is the snowman Froakie...
I was thrilled to bits. So I now have both versions of this ninja frog of ours and the life-size Froakie. All I need now is the snowman Froakie...
Last edited:
elusiveTranscendent
Smash Lord
Life-size froakie? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? :00So here's what my secret santa got me,
![]()
I was thrilled to bits. So I now have both versions of this ninja frog of ours and the life-size Froakie. All I need now is the snowman Froakie...
Sneak Frog
Smash Cadet
Yeah, there's a Froakie plush that stands at 13 1/2 inches. Life-size meaning if Pokémon were real (I wish), that's how big a Froakie would be.
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
I would, honest to god, pay someone to buy me one of those plushies since I can't find them anywhere in Brazil.
... If I had any money to begin with.
... If I had any money to begin with.
BlinkIV
Avenger
That looks sick! Congrats!
Btw, is anyone else going to APEX 2015? I'd love to meet some of you guys and hang out!
Btw, is anyone else going to APEX 2015? I'd love to meet some of you guys and hang out!
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
I want to, but it's all going to depend on my schedule. It's a very long drive from where I am and I'll need to commit two days at least.
I'll be there reppin' the
Marilink
Smash Journeyman
I wish I could, but alas, I have way too much other traveling I've got to do in 2015. Maybe 2016, who knows.
elusiveTranscendent
Smash Lord
There's a tiny possibility. I guess I'll see the closer it gets.
ThatGuyYouMightKnow
Smash Champion
That Greninja upB bug on recovery-type moves is...interesting. It works on about half the cast and it's DEFINITELY not intentional.
Weird.
Weird.
WeirdChillFever
Smash Hero
What bug?
ThatGuyYouMightKnow
Smash Champion
If you slide certain chars off the stage when they land from recovery moves, they stand up in mid-air and go into forced special-fall shortly after.
It works on Kirby and Little Mac as far as I know, and also on Dedede, though he simply goes through the grounded landing animation for his upB and doesn't go into special fall. I haven't tested more than that yet, as I thought this was already known.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member
Guest
What's up my fellow Greninja mains?! My Smash Wii U and adapter is supposed to come in tomorrow, I'm so excited!
I would go to Apex 2015 since I'm in NYC and it's close to me, but I'm not very confident in my smash skills. I'm planning to go in 2016 though
will definitely be rooting for any Greninja mains attending.
I would go to Apex 2015 since I'm in NYC and it's close to me, but I'm not very confident in my smash skills. I'm planning to go in 2016 though
will definitely be rooting for any Greninja mains attending.
Sneak Frog
Smash Cadet
Man, I wish I could go to APEX just to spectate. The hype gets pretty real.
Alas, I'm kind of on the other side of the country. Maybe one day I will be able to attend.
Alas, I'm kind of on the other side of the country. Maybe one day I will be able to attend.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
So I'm struggling with something.
I've been an avid Pokemon fan since it debuted in America when I was in the 4th grade. I've been a competitive Smasher for a long time. Smash 4 brought me back to Pikachu and now I happily main him. I've been in the lab with all of my potential secondaries and only one felt as "right" as Pikachu: Greninja. I'm a big fan of playing what I enjoy but wonder how well the two compliment each other. I guess I'm looking for insight on this matter. I can surely bring a lot to any characters metagame...but I don't want to play two characters who excel/struggle in similar areas. Thoughts?
I've been an avid Pokemon fan since it debuted in America when I was in the 4th grade. I've been a competitive Smasher for a long time. Smash 4 brought me back to Pikachu and now I happily main him. I've been in the lab with all of my potential secondaries and only one felt as "right" as Pikachu: Greninja. I'm a big fan of playing what I enjoy but wonder how well the two compliment each other. I guess I'm looking for insight on this matter. I can surely bring a lot to any characters metagame...but I don't want to play two characters who excel/struggle in similar areas. Thoughts?
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
Happy New Year from Brazil, guys!
elusiveTranscendent
Smash Lord
Happy New Year from the East Coast of America!
D
Deleted member
Guest
Anyone have tips for fighting against Shulk and Link? Whenever I play For Glory I cannot touch these two... Shulk's sword range takes up like half the stage and Link players love to spam throw his projectiles at you until you approach. Mega Man is kind of a problem as well, but I usually go Meta Knight for that match up.
KERO
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2012
- Messages
- 411
Happy New Years to the few, the proud, the 1.0.4 Greninja mains/seconds!
Decided to go ahead and release a little bit of the data I've collected on Shadow Sneak kill percents in the thread as a small gift. It's definitely a little different from testing the vertical kill moves, and I forgot to change the bolded percents (Fox and Bowser should have the bolded percents now), but I might have it done by the tenth hopefully (I'm basically performing a total of sixteen tests on each character+Shulk's arts+Miis).
Also, as for Greninja's up-b "bug," it works with any windbox (just tested with Ike's Tempest). It's not Greninja specific, and I don't believe it's a bug (except for perhaps how large the window is). I know it happened to Kirby, MK's Tornado, and Oli's Up-B back in Brawl if the platform under them disappeared during each move's grounded ending lag.
On the other hand, Greninja is phenomenal against more grounded characters, and in general has fantastic range to keep them in the position you want them in. His mobility guarantees that you will also be able to get where you need to be as soon as needed. I mean, we're looking at 6th best air mobility (if Brawler is included and without modifications), 4th fastest walk speed (beaten only by Marth/Lucina and Fox), 6th fastest running speed (we beat Sheik!), 3rd fastest falling speed, the 4th fastest fast fall speed, and one of the largest perfect pivots in the game (tied with Sonic and Fox actually). This means that Greninja potentially has the best overall mobility in the game outside of Mii Brawler. This gives him extremely good zoning abilities as well and a fantastic chase game.
Finally, one of the biggest aspects of Greninja play is precision. When you make one move, you need to be at least three moves ahead in your mind, having a back-up plan for if the move fails and a definite plan for if your strategy is succeeding. If you go in without a plan, you will suffer greatly for it. Greninja takes a lot of dedication now. None of his moves could really be considered "bad" (no, not even Dair), but at the same time, he doesn't have one move you can really rely on for most situations. You need to constantly be aware of all the tools in Greninja's toolbox and all their uses for any particular situation. While this does give the frog the advantage of being able to do better against the likes of Diddy or Sheik than a lot of characters, at the same time, he has very few match-ups that are definitively easy match-ups for him (only Mac and Puff come to mind for me). He still does suffer against some characters (I strongly believe Ness may very well be his worst MU), but I feel that Greninja is an extremely adaptable character once you learn what he is capable of.
Basically, tl;dr: Greninja struggles against aerial characters and characters that can outrange him in general (the latter of which there are very few of), has a bad shield game, and requires a lot of precision and dedication. On the other hand, all of his moves have their uses meaning he has very few "outlier" match-ups, does decently enough against top tiers (imo), has insane mobility, and honestly, if he feels good, use him. I personally feel he's the closest to Melee that this game gets, even though I don't play Melee competitively much haha. Idk if what I said really works for Pika, but that's just my own experience here in the MW, and I didn't really see anyone else replying, so I decided to give my two cents.
Also, just realized you were Technical Chase haha. Man, I'm tired....
May as well mention that I feel that Greninja is horrifically difficult to play online, but that might just be me =/ Wi-Fi even irritated me back when I played Oli in Brawl because the only way to get anything accomplished was to play a scrubby Wi-Fi Oli.
Decided to go ahead and release a little bit of the data I've collected on Shadow Sneak kill percents in the thread as a small gift. It's definitely a little different from testing the vertical kill moves, and I forgot to change the bolded percents (Fox and Bowser should have the bolded percents now), but I might have it done by the tenth hopefully (I'm basically performing a total of sixteen tests on each character+Shulk's arts+Miis).
Also, as for Greninja's up-b "bug," it works with any windbox (just tested with Ike's Tempest). It's not Greninja specific, and I don't believe it's a bug (except for perhaps how large the window is). I know it happened to Kirby, MK's Tornado, and Oli's Up-B back in Brawl if the platform under them disappeared during each move's grounded ending lag.
In regards to Pikachu/Greninja, I don't really know much about Pikachu, but Greninja's weaknesses I feel are a poor shield game/defensive game in general (he lacks any decent oos options because his Nair comes out slowly, and his standing grab comes out on frame 14. Can do Shadow Sneak oos oddly enough, though, but you can't hold the shield while moving the shadow unless you do a specific tech), and a lack of effective options against aerial approaches (most of his moves cover horizontal and vertical distance well enough, but he has a 45 degree blindspot outside of Fsmash and Fair, both of which are notable commitments compared to say Utilt or Dtilt or jab). Greninja also has a bit of trouble killing reliably in some cases (something I am trying to find ways around that via my kill percent charts to spread aware of some of Greninja's more obscure kill options) and doesn't tack on damage amazingly well.
On the other hand, Greninja is phenomenal against more grounded characters, and in general has fantastic range to keep them in the position you want them in. His mobility guarantees that you will also be able to get where you need to be as soon as needed. I mean, we're looking at 6th best air mobility (if Brawler is included and without modifications), 4th fastest walk speed (beaten only by Marth/Lucina and Fox), 6th fastest running speed (we beat Sheik!), 3rd fastest falling speed, the 4th fastest fast fall speed, and one of the largest perfect pivots in the game (tied with Sonic and Fox actually). This means that Greninja potentially has the best overall mobility in the game outside of Mii Brawler. This gives him extremely good zoning abilities as well and a fantastic chase game.
Finally, one of the biggest aspects of Greninja play is precision. When you make one move, you need to be at least three moves ahead in your mind, having a back-up plan for if the move fails and a definite plan for if your strategy is succeeding. If you go in without a plan, you will suffer greatly for it. Greninja takes a lot of dedication now. None of his moves could really be considered "bad" (no, not even Dair), but at the same time, he doesn't have one move you can really rely on for most situations. You need to constantly be aware of all the tools in Greninja's toolbox and all their uses for any particular situation. While this does give the frog the advantage of being able to do better against the likes of Diddy or Sheik than a lot of characters, at the same time, he has very few match-ups that are definitively easy match-ups for him (only Mac and Puff come to mind for me). He still does suffer against some characters (I strongly believe Ness may very well be his worst MU), but I feel that Greninja is an extremely adaptable character once you learn what he is capable of.
Basically, tl;dr: Greninja struggles against aerial characters and characters that can outrange him in general (the latter of which there are very few of), has a bad shield game, and requires a lot of precision and dedication. On the other hand, all of his moves have their uses meaning he has very few "outlier" match-ups, does decently enough against top tiers (imo), has insane mobility, and honestly, if he feels good, use him. I personally feel he's the closest to Melee that this game gets, even though I don't play Melee competitively much haha. Idk if what I said really works for Pika, but that's just my own experience here in the MW, and I didn't really see anyone else replying, so I decided to give my two cents.
Also, just realized you were Technical Chase haha. Man, I'm tired....
May as well mention that I feel that Greninja is horrifically difficult to play online, but that might just be me =/ Wi-Fi even irritated me back when I played Oli in Brawl because the only way to get anything accomplished was to play a scrubby Wi-Fi Oli.
Last edited:
MartinAW4
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2014
- Messages
- 312
Against Link SHFF Fair is my favorite approach. Usually Link tries to interrupt my approach with Boomerang or Bow, so I short hop over it and punish with a fast fall Fair. And once you`re in, just keep up the pressure to prevent him from using his projectiles. His close range options aren`t that great, so you should be fine if you stay close to him. Once you get him into the air, most Links on For Glory use Dair. It has high priority, so don`t try to challenge it with Uair. Instead wait for them to land and then grab them during the long landing lag. And when they`re off stage you can gimp them easily either with Bair or Hydro Pump.
Maybe it`s because of the generally low skill level of Links on For Glory, but I find Link to be one of Greninja `s easier matchups.
Shulk has no projectiles, so your best weapon against him will be Water Shuriken. Whenever he uses his Buster art at low % just stall it out with your Water Shurikens, same goes for Smash art when you`re at KO %. He takes more damage when using the Jump art, so that`s when you should try to deal as much damage as possible, just don`t play recklessly. When you decide to approach him, mainly use your dash grab to avoid his counter. Also keep in mind that his counter goes through shields, so if you have time to shield, use your spot dodge instead.
Greninja`s biggest advantage in this matchup compared to other characters is that we can escape the second hit from his Fsmash and Usmash using Shadow Sneak hitstun cancelling. Basically every time you get hit, start mashing side B to escape and possibly punish him for landing a hit on you.
His recovery is also extremely vulnerable to Hydro Pump or even your own counter if he goes above the stage with it.
So this is another matchup that I think is in Greninja`s favor.
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
I say "no" to your ridiculous recovery!
Pragmatism at it's finest.
Sometimes I wonder if I really should be posting these silly things that I do but I guess you guys like them so =P
Pragmatism at it's finest.
Sometimes I wonder if I really should be posting these silly things that I do but I guess you guys like them so =P
D
Deleted member
Guest
Thank you. I'll try these once I get my Wii U in about a week and let you know how it works out.
meleebrawler
Smash Hero
I basically came to the same conclusion in the competitive
impressions thread.
The need to learn and potentially apply all of
his moves in different situations I believe is a reason
why so few people want to take the time to learn him, when
other top tiers have bread and butter tools, that is to say, small
selection of moves that cover many situations.