~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[Kit Cal-N]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnGTM0iCCmU hopefully that will fuel better discussion on wario v olimar... since we seemed un-able to reach a conclusions on a lot of things.

Granted... my olimar isn't good for proving anything since I don't play like anyone else


~Fino

Please also note that a good Wario doesn't just fall apart after two lives.
(P.S. that was me in the video)

 

[Dabuz]

wario synopsis: each character has a myriad of counters to the toher characters strategies but wario has an advantage due to aerial prowess, but we can counter that and have a great camp and space game to stop it, leaving the matchup 57-43 warios favor, there is no concrete strategy due to variety in wario and oli fighting styles,


now i can't fight falco for my life, discuss please

 

[Excellence]

Let's go on to Falco because I feel as if there were a really good Falco player I'd get owned. I think we need to call in the Falco boards for a group discussion...

Early match, I begin by camping to provoke Falco into hitting me with lasers and reflected Pikmin until I'm too high a percentage to be chaingrabbed and thus able to avoid chaingrab > spike > ledgehog.

 

[Cook]

You can jump out of chaingrab after like one regrab...

And if you get spiked you can just meteor cancel it if you have enough pikmin. But you shouldn't get spiked, because he can't really chaingrab Olimar.

 

[Xyro77]

The Samus boards are talkin about olimar this week. Head on over and throw in your 2 cents please.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222783

 

[asob4]

why is everyone doing olimar this week D:

falco is lame, no matter how much i DI i can never get out of DEHF's chain grab
i just learned to DI the spike lolol

i doubt you guys have honestly played a good falco, seeing as the only good east coast falco is kismet
i play DEHF like every tourney and creepy too so we got good falcos to play and **** are they annoying to play against.
ask rich :/

 

[DanGR]

why is everyone doing olimar this week D:

falco is lame, no matter how much i DI i can never get out of DEHF's chain grab
i just learned to DI the spike lolol

i doubt you guys have honestly played a good falco, seeing as the only good east coast falco is kismet
i play DEHF like every tourney and creepy too so we got good falcos to play and **** are they annoying to play against.
ask rich :/

I played Kismet in two tourney sets now- both these past few months.
2-0ed me the first time and 2-1ed me the second. Pretty close matches. He's too good though. D:
He taught me some things.
I don't know how to DI the spike yet. I gotta learn that. And he's so good at getting the grab.

 

[Excellence]

You can jump out of chaingrab after like one regrab...

And if you get spiked you can just meteor cancel it if you have enough pikmin. But you shouldn't get spiked, because he can't really chaingrab Olimar.

Lol, no you can't.

 

[gantrain05]

um...dont let falco grab you? i mean got god sakes your olimar its not that tough, the only thing annoying about falco is lasers and he's almost as easy to gimp as olimar is, you guys must be playing him wrong.

 

[Excellence]

um...dont let falco grab you? i mean got god sakes your olimar its not that tough, the only thing annoying about falco is lasers and he's almost as easy to gimp as olimar is, you guys must be playing him wrong.

First off, just as you say "don't get grabbed" we could argue that the Falco you're playing isn't trying to grab you correctly or doing a good job at doing what's correct. Regardless, why would you let Falco get the opportunity to chaingrab you? You should be hitting him with Pikmin to begin with that way grabs aren't even an option to put you into a bad position. Self-camping is the most effective way of doing this because no matter what you're avoiding Falco's chaingrab. Honestly, his laser isn't even that big a problem unless you're on a stage like Final Destination in which he'll outcamp Olimar with Phantasm, Reflector, and SHL/SHDL. Falco is easy to gimp though. All you have to do to edgeguard him is stand at a distance where your Forward Smash hits the tip of the ledge and spam it over and over. If he tries to standup or roll you can get him, if he tries to phantasm to the ledge he'll die, if he tries to jump you can punish him and send him off once he lands.

My main problem with Falco is his Reflector, dealing with his camping on a large stage, his jab cancels, finding an opportunity to KO him and to a degree his lasers (mostly while trying to kill him).

 

[DanGR]

Olimar outcamps Falco.

 

[Excellence]

Olimar outcamps Falco.

On a large stage? I disagree.

 

[ScAtt77]

Well I've fought kismet with Olimar once, but here's a few things I noticed:

Your U-smash (except white pikmin) beats out everything falco has in the air except a dair in its starting frames.

Olimar's Fsmash is about even with falco's fsmash.

Of course, yellow pikmin really help in this match-up because they neutralize falco's laser and have more priority than normal pikmin. :O

 

[Excellence]

Well I've fought kismet with Olimar once, but here's a few things I noticed:

Your U-smash (except white pikmin) beats out everything falco has in the air except a dair in its starting frames.

Olimar's Fsmash is about even with falco's fsmash.

Of course, yellow pikmin really help in this match-up because they neutralize falco's laser and have more priority than normal pikmin. :O

Thanks for your impute.

 

[Zori]

let the match start, let him shoot 23242323 lazers at you till your at 30%, then start fighting

 

[asob4]

dair -> buffered jab is unshield-grabbable by any character
his jab is so godly

 

[DanGR]

On a large stage? I disagree.

It's true.

To dodge the lasers, you've got to do a couple different things in each situation. It's complex at first, but you get the hang of it after a while. It worked wonderfully against Kismet on all the stages we've played at- pictochat, lylat, yoshi's, smashville.

Basically, you've got to use a combination of these listed below instead of throwing your second pikmin in some of your short hops. It depends on where you are in relation to Falco and his lasers, and what pikmin you've got up next. The latter is important because some pikmin throws will be used to protect your landings, while others are for hitting Falco.

FF->AD->shielding
FF->AD->quickly SHing->pikmin throw
FF->pikmin throws (usually whites)

Ex. In order to help limit getting hit by the lasers that may meet you during your two landing frames, you can FF->AD->shield instead of throwing another pikmin (unless it's a white, in which case you can use it to collide with a laser). Many people will throw out a second pikmin just to find that it arced over the laser, it didn't hit their opponent, and they were hit by the laser. Instead, they could get to the ground more quickly, shield the laser, and then prepare for another SH->throw.

Overall, pikmin are a little less spammable, but they take more time to deal with once they hit/latch and they deal more damage. When it comes down to it, Falco's lasers don't have the luxury of having many different speeds and arcs. All of the lasers, as fast as they travel, follow a very linear path. In this matchup, I'm certain that Olimar is better able to weave in and out of his opponent's projectiles while throwing his own than Falco is able to do the inverse.

dair -> buffered jab is unshield-grabbable by any character
his jab is so godly

Seriously? >.>

 

[asob4]

yes seriously
fiction says so
i trust everything fiction says not match up related.
DEHF is on an entirely different level than every falco in the nation too :/ it's just scary how good he is

 

[Dyyne]

DEHF is on an entirely different level than every falco in the nation too :/ it's just scary how good he is

i got DEHF to one stock on this stage after not playing for 2 weeks

Secretly gloating eh ?

Oli can usmash falco out of his forward b relatively easily too, so keep that in mind while they're recovering.

 

[Excellence]

It's true.

To dodge the lasers, you've got to do a couple different things in each situation. It's complex at first, but you get the hang of it after a while. It worked wonderfully against Kismet on all the stages we've played at- pictochat, lylat, yoshi's, smashville.

Basically, you've got to use a combination of these listed below instead of throwing your second pikmin in some of your short hops. It depends on where you are in relation to Falco and his lasers, and what pikmin you've got up next. The latter is important because some pikmin throws will be used to protect your landings, while others are for hitting Falco.

FF->AD->shielding
FF->AD->quickly SHing->pikmin throw
FF->pikmin throws (usually whites)

Ex. In order to help limit getting hit by the lasers that may meet you during your two landing frames, you can FF->AD->shield instead of throwing another pikmin (unless it's a white, in which case you can use it to collide with a laser). Many people will throw out a second pikmin just to find that it arced over the laser, it didn't hit their opponent, and they were hit by the laser. Instead, they could get to the ground more quickly, shield the laser, and then prepare for another SH->throw.

Overall, pikmin are a little less spammable, but they take more time to deal with once they hit/latch and they deal more damage. When it comes down to it, Falco's lasers don't have the luxury of having many different speeds and arcs. All of the lasers, as fast as they travel, follow a very linear path. In this matchup, I'm certain that Olimar is better able to weave in and out of his opponent's projectiles while throwing his own than Falco is able to do the inverse.


Seriously? >.>

Wow, thanks DanGR. I'm going to try this out but if I lose... I'm break off your arm.

 

[DanGR]

Wow, thanks DanGR. I'm going to try this out but if I lose... I'm break off your arm.

No problem.
I'd practice it a lot in friendlies first. Like get a friend to have some camp matches with you on Smashville or something. It takes some time to learn when to do what.

I forgot to mention... the reflector. If you stay at a mid range, you can punish its use with a running grab if you time it really well. Being this close makes you more susceptible to phantasm though, so watch out.

 

[stealth3654]

Hey guys,
The Sheik boards are currently discussing the Olimar match-up here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226389&page=15

Your input will be greatly appreciated

Thanks .

 

[asob4]

Secretly gloating eh ?

Oli can usmash falco out of his forward b relatively easily too, so keep that in mind while they're recovering.

haa kinda :D
but i could tell he wasn't feeling it that day so whatever

 

[_clinton]

ATTN: characters that have to wear a diaper because your in a space suit...please chat in this thread about a character that had issues with his bed sheets

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229697

This thread is more around how and what the character in question could do to counter your main points about your character...it isn't a match up thread...

 

[DanGR]

Matchup numbers

I thought it'd be a good idea to look at what we've got down as the current matchup numbers. Things have changed.

Green: Advantage
Red: Disadvantage
Yellow: Neutral
White: Undecided

Bowser
Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong: 50-50
Donkey Kong: 60-40
Falco: 50-50
Fox: 60-40
Mr. Game and Watch: 45-55
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers: 55-45
Ike
Jigglypuff
King Dedede: 61-39
Kirby: 40-60
Link: 70-30
Lucario: 60-40
Lucas
Luigi: 35-65
Mario
Marth: 40-60
Meta-Knight: 35-65
Ness
Olimar: The one with the red suit has it 100-0.
Peach: 35-65
Pikachu: 55-45
Pit: 60-40
Pokemon Trainer
Squirtle
Charizard
Ivysaur
ROB: 40-60
Samus
:shiek:Sheik: 40-60
Snake: 60-40
Sonic: 60-40 to 65-35
Toon Link: 65-35
Wario - 50-50
Wolf: 45-55
Yoshi: 45-55 [some say 60-40 or even]
Zelda: 75-25
Zero Suit Samus: 55-45

The first thing I notice is that Kirby probably shouldn't be 60-40 his favor.
Fighting IC seems easier than even too.
I still feel certain that Sheik and Peach, if played CORRECTLY, (way different from the norm) have at least a small advantage on Oli.
Last, but not least, red suit Oli has it 110/-10 against every other Oli. xD
There's some other small things too.

 

[IcyLight]

i'de say ic's is def. easier than 50-50, wolf is easier than 50-50 (i used to fighting JJ one of top wolf players), peach can still be annoying if they know what they are supposed to do, as dangr said, and i currently believe olimar soft counters game and watch (55-45/60-40)

 

[Snail]

And 60/40 advantage on Snake should be a 50/50 at best... in my opinion <.<

 

[RichBrown]

Falco is annoying as hell. I play against DEHF every now and then, he's gotten so good. He has the timing down for CGing Olimar. I used to think Oli could get out, but DEHF showed me he can't until 40.

To DI the spike, alternate-mash your control stick and C stick towards the stage, you'll just land on the stage.

When Falco is recovering, just charge Fsmashes and try to time it for when he sideBs. Eventually he will either start recovering higher or lower than the Fsmash range. Take note of where he recovers. If he recovers high, shield then Usmash, since he will be in his freefall animation then land with lag. If he recovers low, grab the ledge. Another option is to time an utilt, then if the moves clash, do an usmash. Olimar has a variety of options against Falco when he's off stage that no one seems to really take advantage of.

With the reflector, throw a lot of pikmin, let him reflect them at you, nair them off, and eventually once you've conditioned him, run at him and SH as if you are about to do your sideB, but don't throw anything. It'll bait the reflector, and you can run in and grab.

Other stuff: Kirby-Olimar is about even. Olimar is 55-45 on Snake, MAYBE 60-40. ICs are pretty easy, just main the Cstick. Olimar is also 55-45 against Diddy. No, I'm not going to post my reasons for any of this.

Why do I know so much about this game.

 

[asob4]

yeah, larry is the reason i hate falco :/
kirby/oli is probably 55-45 oli's favor, says my epic match with mogX ;D lmfao!
snake is probaby 55-45 as well. camp camp camp each others brains out but we do it better :D
IC's i'd say 60-40 us
diddy i have no ****in clue, but rich does :D

 

[Excellence]

Falco is annoying as hell. I play against DEHF every now and then, he's gotten so good. He has the timing down for CGing Olimar. I used to think Oli could get out, but DEHF showed me he can't until 40.

To DI the spike, alternate-mash your control stick and C stick towards the stage, you'll just land on the stage.

When Falco is recovering, just charge Fsmashes and try to time it for when he sideBs. Eventually he will either start recovering higher or lower than the Fsmash range. Take note of where he recovers. If he recovers high, shield then Usmash, since he will be in his freefall animation then land with lag. If he recovers low, grab the ledge. Another option is to time an utilt, then if the moves clash, do an usmash. Olimar has a variety of options against Falco when he's off stage that no one seems to really take advantage of.

With the reflector, throw a lot of pikmin, let him reflect them at you, nair them off, and eventually once you've conditioned him, run at him and SH as if you are about to do your sideB, but don't throw anything. It'll bait the reflector, and you can run in and grab.

Other stuff: Kirby-Olimar is about even. Olimar is 55-45 on Snake, MAYBE 60-40. ICs are pretty easy, just main the Cstick. Olimar is also 55-45 against Diddy. No, I'm not going to post my reasons for any of this.

Why do I know so much about this game.

What ICs are you playing?

 

[asob4]

fly amanita and michael hey....
those are the only ones i've played anyway and i do very well vs them

 

[Jim Morrison]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510&page=357

Sonic boards are rediscussing you.
We're still in need of some views from your side.

 

[sasook]

Hey guys, we discussed the Oli matchup, and we were wondering if you could review the writeup. Does this seem accurate to you?

Link's Advantages

* Olimar is extremely light and can be KO'd early by Link's good KO potential.
* Olimar is very easily gimped offstage and his recovery is easily Zedged.
* Zair hits Pikmin as well stops SHing Olimars from approaching.
* Jab's KO Pikmin quickly and refresh moves.
* Link's weight and DI make him difficult for Olimar to KO vertically.

Olimar's Advantages

* One of the best campers in the game.
* One of the best grab games/grab ranges in the game.
* Olimar's Pivot Grab greatly extends his already great grab range.
* Red Pikmin attached to Link stops his bombs causing them to explode on Link when thrown.
* Has a very good combo game on the heavy Link and has a few true combos at lower percents.
* Use of his whistle (DownB) grants him SA frames while recovering.

(originally posted by L_Cancel):
I would say the matchup is 60/40 in Olimar's favor:

Olimar's grab 'combos' are most potent on characters with heavy weights. Not to mention Olimar has a cg on heavies, including Link, until 35-45, if he chooses to use it. Also, a grab is easy to land on Link, due to his low speed. Also, Link's attacks, will not push Olimar out of Shield grab range, so if an attack is shielded, Link will be grabbed.

Link does have a projectile game, that can keep up with Oli in some regards, but Olimar just being smaller, and the pikmin being smaller and faster moving, makes it easier for Olimar to out-camp a Link, then when Link tries to remove the pikmin with an attack, Oli can move in for a grab.

however, Link can survive for long periods of time against Oli. Olimar's 'combos' are most viable at low percents, and Link's weight makes it more difficult to Oli to KO Link off the top. Oli's gimp game is also fairly limited. It's possible to gimp with an f-smash over the edge, but by recovering properly Link should be able to avoid it.

Another thing in Oli's favor is Link doesn't have a partciular stage to take Oli to in order to gain much of an advantage.

All in all. I still only give this matchup a 60-40 in Oli's favor as due to Link's projectile and zair, this matchup isn't as easy as other heavy characters without them (such as Ganon). Also, Link has many disjointed hitboxes and most outprioritize alot of Oli's attacks (with the exception of uair and some times u-smash and a couple others....)

Definitely in Oli's favor though....

This match-up can be very difficult. As stated in the above quote Olimar has various ways to set up easy grabs on Link through his superior camp game. Olimar also has a few ways to combo and chain grab Link at lower percents. Link's projectile game provides him with a way to keep Olimar on his toes and gives his camping game a little bit of trouble, but not much. You never really want to approach Olimar and with Link's projectiles and range you shouldn't be anyway. Olimar is extremely light and can be KO'ed at very early percents with Link's Fsmash, Dsmash, and Dair the latter of which shouldn't be used too much in this match-up due to the punishement you can recive from it. RBS (Reverse Bomb Sliding) is an extremely important AT you should learn to use for this match-up, it provides for a quick retreat while hurling a bomb at your opponent and is a very good spacing tool and can even be used for a trick approach since it you can pivot boosted out of it. You need to keep an eye on what Pikmin latch to you and be very aware when red ones latch onto you since they can interfere with your bombs. Olimar doesn't have a lot of offstage options against you so recovering shouldn't really be a problem here. Olimar isn't terribly difficult to gimp, stop his drifting back to the stage with arrows and kick him out with Nairs. Zedgeing the ledge also works very well here since Olimar has the ability to gain AS frames with the use of his DownB.

Where Should I Stage CP Olimar?
Olimar doesn't have a definte stage CP against Olimar. Frigate takes advantage of Olimar's terrible recovery but does the same for you, only play here if you feel comfortable on it. Rainbow Cruise is another option that should only be used if you feel comfortable on it. Olimar's camp game is very horizontal and the constant movement of the stage itself and lack of ledges can really hinder him. Final Destination is always a good choice since it provides room for Link to camp against his opponents.

 

[Gardevior]

Where Should I Stage CP Olimar?
Olimar doesn't have a definte stage CP against Olimar.

I'd fix that.

Also, what are AS frames? I'm fairly new to the game, so I may have not heard of them, but did you mean SA (super armor) frames?

 

[Fino]

What ICs are you playing?

Lain. Where you at kid?


~Fino

 

[sasook]

I'd fix that.

Also, what are AS frames? I'm fairly new to the game, so I may have not heard of them, but did you mean SA (super armor) frames?

Ah yeah, 2 typos. I didn't type this, but I'll let the guy know. Thanks a bunch.


But does the info seem accurate? Fino, this is somewhat targeted at you since you played Arkive a ton.

 

[Dotcom]

Well I'm here just jogging this along, does anybody feel like re - discussing Diddy. It seems more and more like a trickier match up these days, and I think it's one a lot of people will try to look for guidance on an outside source for. Discussing it here might make things easier for players.

 

[sasook]

So, can I assume the matchup description from our boards is accurate?

 

[¤Vivi Orunitia¤]

So, can I assume the matchup description from our boards is accurate?

*Looks at previous post*

Hmm, it seems about right. Despite the minor typo errors, everything seems correct. One thing that I'd like to discuss about Link though is the matchup ratio, in my opinion and through my experience.....the ratio should be 60:40 and not 65:35.

 

[asob4]

no
pikmin destroy any camp game you have and grab destroys and offensive game you have
gtfo link!
:D
90:10 fer sure >.> lmao