~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[DanGR]

Ask Milln about the Lucario-Olimar matchup. <3

 

[Timbers]

does that mean seckz nao?

yesyes

And obviously they shouldn't see the F-Smash coming, Timbers.

??

Do people not shield your fsmashes?

Ask Milln about the Lucario-Olimar matchup. <3

never

 

[gantrain05]

i tend to blindly run into lucario Fsmash >.> i just need more lucarios to play with, i only ever play with one, and its like once every 2 months, if im lucky enough to run into him in brackets.

 

[phi1ny3]

Can we stop the talk about DT? btw, can lucario fan a pikmin like he can with T-jolt, turnips, and most projectiles via jab? I've found it to be rather useful.
Also, if he is throwing pikmin at a distance without following up, he's a bad olimar, so DT is not quite so good in this instance. Only something that will come out occasionally. imo, RDT is more useful vs. falco, pit, and wolf than it is Olimar (even then, it's not all that great).

 

[Timbers]

no ones been talking about DT for the past page and a half, really.


blindly running into fsmash is what made lucario so good early on in the game. now you're really lucky to land the move more than twice a game against competent players/characters.

 

[Rocann]

go to a tourney
look for andyg or blackwaltz
they're atlantic north
dunno how much they play anymore though

I haven't been to a tourney in a while going to a fest today, should get new videos

 

[|RK|]

Now we don't have much/any good smashes for it. The thing is, if we hit with our attacks, we have it easy, but the problem is that they're not good if they get hit that much. I remember someone... Hylian... posted something a while back about how to get past Olimar with Meta-Knight. F-Tilt is your best friend in this matchup. Watch their line of Pikmin and know which is next. A good Olimar will also be watching their line and likely planning in advance. As with Snake, we should monitor everything that they're doing and think of possibilities. Play this as if it's Chess: Olimars are the Queen, Lucario is a Rook: his paths are straightforward and telegraphed, but he can do a lot if he makes the Queen move to the wrong space...

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I am sorry, but you're chess analogy isn't quite right. A rook by itself can never pin a queen or even have an advantage on it in a K+Q and a K+R secenario.

Sorry, but I am not sure what you're trying to get at with that analogy. Also since K+Q v K+R is a win for K+Q [except in very rare circumstances], you are saying that Olimar has an advantage over Lucario [which I agree with], but early you said it was the other way around.

But, maybe I am trying to interpret this to literally. [Being an a chess player doesn't help.]

 

[|RK|]

I never said that this was in our favor. I had just said lower than what the rest of you are saying, since Olimar isn't on the same level as Dedede.

 

[asob4]

cause he's waaaaaay above dedede

 

[|RK|]

Crap, Double post.

I meant for us.

(Dedede/Marth>Lucario) > (Lucario < Olimar)

 

[jog]

are you saying that marth and D3 are better against lucario then olimar is against lucario?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

are you saying that marth and D3 are better against lucario then olimar is against lucario?

lol no ****

 

[Timbers]

I never said that this was in our favor. I had just said lower than what the rest of you are saying, since Olimar isn't on the same level as Dedede.

i think olimar is as bad as ddd, lol.

Crap, Double post.

I meant for us.

(Dedede/Marth>Lucario) > (Lucario < Olimar)

i dont even know what this means oh god i think my head broke

 

[Vionce]

if olimar gets too shield grab happy then a lucario might charge AS on top of oli. After oli DIs out, luc can probably follow up with up-tilt or try to get some fairs in or something.

 

[jog]

lol no ****

sorry >_> i just never know what he's trying to say...

60-40 olimar.

agreed?

 

[asob4]

i agree with 60-40

i've known it was 60-40 since the game came out lolol

 

[Timbers]

i agree with 60-40

i've known it was 60-40 since the game came out lolol

welcome to my bedroom


this.

 

[asob4]

oo la la

me no likey yiffing sorry

BURN
<3 luc boards

 

[Timbers]

harsh bro.

 

[Samuelson]

Putting numbers on this matchup is tough. I don't think it's quite 60:40 but it's not a good matchup for Lucario.

 

[asob4]

i try

uhh 58/42? lol

 

[Timbers]

speaking freely i think marth, ddd, snake, mk, and olimar are all 40:60 for lucario lol.

 

[phi1ny3]

Olimar is imo 40:60, leaning toward about 58:42. But then again, doing numbers like that is just mean. (For the record, that's 40:60 in Olimar's favor).

 

[|RK|]

Lol, I was about to say 59:41, but whatever :D

We really SHOULD use more numbers. We don't have to conform to the general standards. Besides, it makes it easier to agree on numbers when there's more. Averages tend not to be accurate.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Eh, I'd still call it 55:45 Olimar, but I'll settle for 60:40.

...still closer to even, IMO.

 

[Timbers]

Lol, I was about to say 59:41, but whatever :D

We really SHOULD use more numbers. We don't have to conform to the general standards. Besides, it makes it easier to agree on numbers when there's more. Averages tend not to be accurate.

numbers are ****ing ******** actually.

"hurrr durrr in the long run I think if i played 100 games with someone equally skilled as i am, i would only lose 55 of the 100 games. Losing 60 of the 100? LOL pshaw you cards."

no.

 

[|RK|]

Yes, but the community likes them. After all, matchups help determine how well they do in tournaments, or as Sky says, round their viabilty down to impossibilities. Player skill and style does determine how well they actually do better than bare bones matchups. After all, most people expect a jab>jab>cancel, because we do that all the time, or just two Force Palm Grabs. We gotta var it up kids. We are FAR too predictable. Which reminds me, doing matchups only takes away a character's element of surprise...

If I discover ANY advanced technique, I will only tell it on the IRC. Don't talk about it until you've used it in tournament >_>
​

​

 

[asob4]

don't spam our thread, we do that enough

 

[|RK|]

I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was spamming. But, on a side note, wanna revolt against the normal numbers with us and put more accurate numbers? It would help as far as agreements go...​

​

 

[Sudai]

If I discover ANY advanced technique, I will only tell it on the IRC. Don't talk about it until you've used it in tournament >_>

Oh yes. Allowing yourself to surprise people once is going to help you out a lot. Why not share the information and help to develop the metagame? Having a trick that only works due to novelty value isn't that helpful in the long run. By not telling people, it just means it'll take longer for you to figure out when it will actually work and when it won't actually work.

 

[|RK|]

We'll just have to practice it among ourselves, then. There are enough people in the IRC. I meant not to tell other characters.​

​

 

[Sudai]

I know that's what you meant, my statement stands. Basically you're just being selfish and hoping that your one secret will be enough to win, when in reality it won't. You're actually hurting yourself by not telling people. At first people won't know what to do so you'll think it works in situations where it doesn't. Eventually you get lulled into using it too much then people figure out how to get around it. Now you have to break your own habit of using it in obviously wrong places. That's time you waste breaking a habit that could be spent figuring out your character better.

 

[Samuelson]

Well, everybody seems to think it's like 60:40 Olimar so i'll just go with that. I like putting numbers on matchups because it gives me something i can easily relate to. Saying a match is bad doesn't tell me just how bad it really is. Ya dig?

 

[|RK|]

I know that's what you meant, my statement stands. Basically you're just being selfish and hoping that your one secret will be enough to win, when in reality it won't. You're actually hurting yourself by not telling people. At first people won't know what to do so you'll think it works in situations where it doesn't. Eventually you get lulled into using it too much then people figure out how to get around it. Now you have to break your own habit of using it in obviously wrong places. That's time you waste breaking a habit that could be spent figuring out your character better.

That's why I said use it once in a tournament then share it

But that's beside the discussion. I guess 60:40 Olimar, then?​

​

 

[DtJ Hilt]

lol sudai

get ***** joker

 

[|RK|]

Lol. I'm sadistic like that.​

​

 

[asob4]

okie dokie who next??


i'm all business today :D

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I can't honestly say it's as bad as Dedede, Marth, MK, and G&W.

Granted Lucario sucks against short people with disjointed hitboxes, I'd say it's as bad as Wario rather than the above four.

Well I promised a huge layout of the match up so here it is,

~

Lucario is an aura pumping machine, the Qi fighter is quite skilled, however he has his weaknesses, ones which Olimar can exploit for a small advantage.

Olimar is short, that is a blow to lucario Fair is a good approaching option, but in this case Olimar is way too short for this to be useful. Fsmash won't work for the same reason it won't work on Metaknight, they have enough range to get in after the attack and punish. In Olimar's case his huge ranged grab.

Lucario has to face it, Olimar's ground game beats his. Olimar doesn't need to approach only needing to throw pikmen all day to camp and cancel any aura sphere coming at him. Lucario has better aerial options compared to his ground options, Dair will work better than Fair. Nair is better when short hopped for little landing lag.

One thing Lucario can do is kill Olimar. Olimar will camp rather than approach, Lucario can get a nice boost to at least be ready for a kill. Granted it should be noted Olimar can kill just as well as Lucario can, His Usmash, Fsmash, Dsmash, Grabs, he isn't lacking in options to kill.

When it comes to gimping people have claimed Olimar is a simple push odd ledge and edgehog...that was coming from the same inane people who thought Lucario and Zero
Suit Samus were easy edge hog targets. This is far from the truth, Olimar can recover well provided he has a big enough pikmen chain. I'd still go for a gimp kill when the opportunity arises,it's not as easy to gimp Olimar as people say, but it's still something to try. Lucario can recover better than Olimar can, but Olimar has a nasty spike and evil edge hog trick he can try by pikmen chaining off the stage and holding on from below.

For stages, avoid Rainbow Cruise and Frigate Orpheon, one stage is a pure air battle at points and the other is one of Lucario's better stages. Go to Battlefield and Final Destination against Lucario, you can camp all day on those stages with little to worry about.

55:45 Olimar.

 

[asob4]

one early kill, which oli has no problem getting, complete F**KS with luc's game
it puts them in a state of urgency and leads to more openings for oli