Poltergust
Smash Master
lil b, at least show some courtesy. >_>
-
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The Official Yoshi FAQ/Q&A Thread -- [Please look here before posting!]
- Thread starter Shiri
- Start date
SOVAman
Smash Hero
No...........................
K.Mac
Smash Lord
Okay.... this is a really serious question x_X and I don't know where to post it, so I'm posting it here.
Anyways.
This is regards the CG spike.
Is there a specific distance from the ledge you have to be at to be able to spike some characters (i.e. MK) or does it work right at the edge of the ledge?
I ask this because every time I've tried to spike MK I always end up beneath him when the move comes out... I was figuring either I'm leaving the buffering too late or I need to be a short distance back from the ledge for the spike to hit him.. :/
(for the record, I've managed to connect the spike once... but that was on the 3rd stage of castle siege so I think the tilting stage may have played a part. :/)
If there's a certain distance back from the ledge for certain characters, shouldn't we comprise a list or something detailing this?
Anyways.
This is regards the CG spike.
Is there a specific distance from the ledge you have to be at to be able to spike some characters (i.e. MK) or does it work right at the edge of the ledge?
I ask this because every time I've tried to spike MK I always end up beneath him when the move comes out... I was figuring either I'm leaving the buffering too late or I need to be a short distance back from the ledge for the spike to hit him.. :/
(for the record, I've managed to connect the spike once... but that was on the 3rd stage of castle siege so I think the tilting stage may have played a part. :/)
If there's a certain distance back from the ledge for certain characters, shouldn't we comprise a list or something detailing this?
Airborne
Smash Lord
you might be fastfalling when performing the fair.. otherwise, i'm not exactly sure why else you'd end up underneath him. =\
also, hasn't this been disproved due to framedata for a lot of characters?
K.Mac
Smash Lord
Wait... what? Seriously, the spike on Ganon has been disproved?
I find it odd because - like I said, every time I've attempted the CG spike on Ganon I've 100% hit him - this is whilst I was playing an actual opponent (probably the best player in the north west of england - or definitely up there) so...
****.
I can't find the posts regarding the diagram for the MK CG spike or the posts regarding the frame data which disproves the spike on certain characters.. :/ I fail. Shame on me.
I find it odd because - like I said, every time I've attempted the CG spike on Ganon I've 100% hit him - this is whilst I was playing an actual opponent (probably the best player in the north west of england - or definitely up there) so...
****.
I can't find the posts regarding the diagram for the MK CG spike or the posts regarding the frame data which disproves the spike on certain characters.. :/ I fail. Shame on me.
Silent Beast
Smash Journeyman
MK CG spike/spacing:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5170600&postcount=1
Ganon CG spike escape (among other things):
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7490823&postcount=532
How Ganon escapes:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7529781&postcount=29
SOVAman
Smash Hero
Why is Sonic Chat better then the Yoshi Chat?
Browny
Smash Hater
Its because of our background picture, you cant possibly match it 
K.Mac
Smash Lord
Ah, thanks for the links Silent Beast
That's ironically the "sweetspot" that I'd thought it was (I'm not dumb after all xD) It was just I was testing this in Training mode and as my cousin (the only person offline I can easily play against) doesn't main (or even want to touch) MK, it's difficult for me to suitably test it.
Hopefully I can learn this list before the ranbat I'm going to on Saturday - good news for me, as if I can learn the sweetspot area for all the stages, I may finally be able to perform the dreaded gimp on MK and at long last start beating him :D
Calzorz also uses Snake (he's the #1 UK Brawl player... good friend of mine xD) so that post regarding Snake's effective options for recovery may help me gimp him also.
Thanks guys. ^_^ YOSHI RULES!
edit
For Falco, is the sweetspot for the spike directly at the ledge or the same place that it is for MK? I can't recall the positioning I was in when I last gimped my cousin's Falco (although the note about him being gimpable from 0% explains why whenever the hell I have connected the spike he's died xD)
Also remind me to practice the Fair spike for Wolf... ;]
edit again
I can connect the Fair spike at the edge of FD O_o which is either very strange, or Trio is just an awful Ganon. Just wanted to mention that in case anyone can explain why.
That's ironically the "sweetspot" that I'd thought it was (I'm not dumb after all xD) It was just I was testing this in Training mode and as my cousin (the only person offline I can easily play against) doesn't main (or even want to touch) MK, it's difficult for me to suitably test it.
Hopefully I can learn this list before the ranbat I'm going to on Saturday - good news for me, as if I can learn the sweetspot area for all the stages, I may finally be able to perform the dreaded gimp on MK and at long last start beating him :D
Calzorz also uses Snake (he's the #1 UK Brawl player... good friend of mine xD) so that post regarding Snake's effective options for recovery may help me gimp him also.
Thanks guys. ^_^ YOSHI RULES!
edit
For Falco, is the sweetspot for the spike directly at the ledge or the same place that it is for MK? I can't recall the positioning I was in when I last gimped my cousin's Falco (although the note about him being gimpable from 0% explains why whenever the hell I have connected the spike he's died xD)
Also remind me to practice the Fair spike for Wolf... ;]
edit again
I can connect the Fair spike at the edge of FD O_o which is either very strange, or Trio is just an awful Ganon. Just wanted to mention that in case anyone can explain why.
DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
I'm quite new to Yoshi and find him extremely fun, so as I got more interested in playing him I checked those threads about his moveset. I think I have most things down pretty well as far as just info but during fights, I tend to not use Egg Lay as much as everyone's very good opinion of it would suggest I should.
Can someone give a rough description of when the best times are to use it?
EDIT: sorry for the very nooby feel of this question
Can someone give a rough description of when the best times are to use it?
EDIT: sorry for the very nooby feel of this question
Hey, your gonna be at the ranbat on Saturday? Awesome. Will be good to play you again.
I wouldn't go calling Calzorz the best player in the UK like that though, London players are much better than EM players and there are a few people who could easily match Calzorz.
Silent Beast
Smash Journeyman
Just so you know, the original Mmac post does contain some outdated information. As bigman posted in the second link I gave, only egg lay is guaranteed on Falco and nothing is guaranteed on Wolf. Ganon escapes if he holds away from the stage and uairs.
Well, of the moves that Yoshi can use in the air, egg lay has the most range in front of him. It also functions as a grab, so it hits through shields. Since opponents always break out of the egg by jumping, you get a tech chase out of it too. Just be careful, because the opponent can vary how quickly he breaks out by mashing at different speeds, and is invincible when they break out. As for situations to use it in, say you jump at a grounded opponent, who shields because he expects a bair. Instead of bair, you can egg lay him. You can also use it when you're coming off the ledge, by dropping down, DJing, and egg laying. The B-reversal properties are pretty useful too. Some times, I use it when I'm dropping back down to the stage away from my opponent, and then reverse egg lay him. Another option is to cancel the double jump with it. Furthermore, you can also combine the DJC with the B-reversal.
This video shows some of these examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTrvhv68Et0
K.Mac
Smash Lord
Bah! That sucks.
Well regardless, since what most people do when put in such a situation as a Yoshi CG is try to jump or airdodge away, most times it's easy to either a) mindgame them or b) catch them off-guard.
Maybe it's no longer guaranteed, but since Yoshi doesn't -always- have to go for the spike on such characters, you can try fool them into thinking you're going to do something else and hit them with it.... maybe a rising Nair on Ganon instead of the spike?
Still, it's good to know that Yoshi can still spike MK (I secondary MK now... Aurorean, I am NOT going to use MK against you because I know you will gimp me
). I just need to practice the spike a little and maybe along with Yoshi's awesome CP stage I may start winning :DThanks for the help.
Yeah, I'm coming. Yoshi dittos are as fun as Ganon dittos, aren't they? And I'm gonna get me some texture hacks, so I might finally get the orange Yoshi I've longed for.aurorean said:
Honestly though, Calzorz -is- good. A lot of the London players say he's the UK #1 at Brawl - not least Fuzzy, who he 2 stocked every match during the finals O_o. That's the only reason I say he's as good as he is - if the Londoners are saying he's good, then he's good.
bigman40
Smash Master
You can't spike MK from grab release.
K.Mac
Smash Lord
....
what
...?
what
...?
bigman40
Smash Master
Look at the posts I made in the CG thread. I did it via frame data.
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
Yup, Scatz is right.
Instead just stick with grab release Upsmash.
Instead just stick with grab release Upsmash.
bigman40
Smash Master
Or if you know how to DR/DT, you can DT Dsmash him from release and/or pressure him with a Fsmash over the ledge (tight timing though). Helps to keep the Usmash fresh Imo.
K.Mac
Smash Lord
****.. okay.
I know this is going to get arguments about its validity, but I don't particularly trust the useage of 'frame data' to test things on Brawl.
I'm just saying that because the frame rate isn't locked to the game speed like it was on Melee - otherwise how else could someone such as myself, who often plays the game on 50Hz mode, be able to play online against someone who lives in America and has a 60Hz TV? If the game inputs and speed were entirely dependant on the frame rate, it would be impossible for us to play because the differences in frame rate (and thus the number of possible inputs/outputs per second) would mean some of our inputs would be ignored and we'd become de-synced.
Also, on physics-heavy stages (like Mushroomy Kingdom II) I've noticed that the frame rate drops from 50 to 25 (it halves) but the game speed remains the SAME.
What I'm NOT saying is that your observations based on careful and dedicated testing frame-by-frame is incorrect, I'm just saying that it's possible that the frame rate doesn't limit inputs and outputs as much as it did on Melee, where game speed would fall if the game couldn't keep up with drawing the graphics (such as coin battles, Fountain of Dreams (man that stage was laggy) etc) and also that the 50Hz mode ran slower in game-time than its 60Hz counterpart.
=/
I know this is going to get arguments about its validity, but I don't particularly trust the useage of 'frame data' to test things on Brawl.
I'm just saying that because the frame rate isn't locked to the game speed like it was on Melee - otherwise how else could someone such as myself, who often plays the game on 50Hz mode, be able to play online against someone who lives in America and has a 60Hz TV? If the game inputs and speed were entirely dependant on the frame rate, it would be impossible for us to play because the differences in frame rate (and thus the number of possible inputs/outputs per second) would mean some of our inputs would be ignored and we'd become de-synced.
Also, on physics-heavy stages (like Mushroomy Kingdom II) I've noticed that the frame rate drops from 50 to 25 (it halves) but the game speed remains the SAME.
What I'm NOT saying is that your observations based on careful and dedicated testing frame-by-frame is incorrect, I'm just saying that it's possible that the frame rate doesn't limit inputs and outputs as much as it did on Melee, where game speed would fall if the game couldn't keep up with drawing the graphics (such as coin battles, Fountain of Dreams (man that stage was laggy) etc) and also that the 50Hz mode ran slower in game-time than its 60Hz counterpart.
=/
Does anybody else want me to unsticky the DR thread? Let me know.Remember, the unsticky should come about because it's not an important resource for people to want to look for right away. It should not come about because you don't use it or think it's good. If you think it's a thread that is stickied that does not need the sticky, please chime in (except Metatitan).
YoshiIslander77z
Smash Apprentice
well ive notice ive been on a losing streak and its because ive been gettin hit way to often and not able to punish easily so my question is
whats the best way to dodge and punish with yoshi?
whats the best way to dodge and punish with yoshi?
SOVAman
Smash Hero
You know I have always thought the DR thread should be unstickied
Remember, the unsticky should come about because it's not an important resource for people to want to look for right away. It should not come about because you don't use it or think it's good. If you think it's a thread that is stickied that does not need the sticky, please chime in (except Metatitan).
bigman40
Smash Master
There's the best option.
Will do. This is not a double post, no matter what Chaco says.Done some updates, made some matchup threads, and updated Kiwi's thread.
Keep me honest on your free time and if anything is broken or wrong or misplaced or delicious, let me know.
Scala
Smash Ace
Shiri I just wanted to say thanks for your double post warning you gave to me earlier, I really love those things.
Anyways is there somewhere that we have a table on what moves are guaranteed after a on-stage grab release? I'd like to know which chars I can uair from grab release without repercussions
Also is there a list of cool egg lay tricksies somewhere? I can't find them
Anyways is there somewhere that we have a table on what moves are guaranteed after a on-stage grab release? I'd like to know which chars I can uair from grab release without repercussions
Also is there a list of cool egg lay tricksies somewhere? I can't find them
Silent Beast
Smash Journeyman
Scala:
As for "egg lay tricksies," there isn't any list I know of, but you can do some pretty nifty stuff by canceling the DJ and/or reversing the egg lay.
Only I get to double post! :oAlso, the last round of threads is coming out in a few hours.
P.S. - The Egg Lay discussion thread might have tricks in them, but I don't know about any other place they've been discussed off the top of my head.
Poltergust
Smash Master
I believe Jigglypuff can also be u-aired out of release. Of course, her window is much smaller than that of Ness'.
EDIT: Oh, and Wario, too. Duh. *hits self for forgetting*
EDIT: Oh, and Wario, too. Duh. *hits self for forgetting*
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Hello! I come from the Fox boards, but I plan on using Yoshi as a secondary from now on. I would really appreciate some quick advice in preparation for Genesis singles tomorrow.
Most important:
How does Yoshi overall fare in the Pika, Shiek, and IC matchups? (All ones Fox does horrible in XD.)
^ That I care most about, the rest of these are either for confirmation and self-confidence, or quick pieces of advice I would really love to have.
What moves should I be using most?
What moves should I be using the least?
Any matchups I should be concerned about? How about those that Yoshi fares well in?
Any overall strategies I want to employ/avoid.
Thank you all so much for your time. I was told I have a "back-pocket" Yoshi and I have the right idea, so I'll be sure to hang around here more often.
Also I understand I can find most of these answers around the threads, but I don't have much time lol. I would really appreciate any help.
Most important:
How does Yoshi overall fare in the Pika, Shiek, and IC matchups? (All ones Fox does horrible in XD.)
^ That I care most about, the rest of these are either for confirmation and self-confidence, or quick pieces of advice I would really love to have.
What moves should I be using most?
What moves should I be using the least?
Any matchups I should be concerned about? How about those that Yoshi fares well in?
Any overall strategies I want to employ/avoid.
Thank you all so much for your time. I was told I have a "back-pocket" Yoshi and I have the right idea, so I'll be sure to hang around here more often.
Also I understand I can find most of these answers around the threads, but I don't have much time lol. I would really appreciate any help.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Hello there!
Okay, well. I'm not that most experienced Yoshi around here, but here are my general ideas.
Pika: This is an even Match up, but you have to think really hard. I've heard it called the hardest match up since you can't relax at all until you win. Camping doesn't work too well, and his aerials will beat yours in most cases, I believe. They both have troubles killing, just note that when you get hit into the air near the top of the screen, don't Air Dodge right away, wait for the Thunder then Dodge away from it. Against Pika you'll generally want to be on your toes. Grabs are nice when you get them, make sure to get a pummel in quickly. Bair can be nice if you space it correctly. Pika's Dair has nice priority, but you can beat it with a spaced uair, I believe. Both characters have problems killing the other, but always be careful.
Sheik: When approaching, make sure not to get hit by a needle or chain. You can nair the ftilt lock. Don't get gimped. Be quick, because she's quick as well. Chase her off stage with spaced bairs to knock her away and edgehog her. Gimps are your friend. Don't get gimped yourself, which shouldn't be hard if you Air Dodge at the appropriate times. I'm not too experienced with this MU personally, though.
IC: Don't get grabbed. Stay aerial, mostly. Space your bairs, don't land near them to get shield grabbed. If they are far, toss some eggs. SH Egg Tosses may work if they're desyncing icicles at you. Don't run into blizzard. If you do happen to grab some of them for some reason, toss them over the edge/into the air immediately and keep them seperated. It's hard to gimp them with because of their >B. Egg Lay their shield if they're getting shield grabby, since it separates them and you'll only have to deal with one for that amount of time. If you manage to get Nana off stage, gimp her and keep Popo away.
Moves to use: Bair is your friend. Cancel into the ground to follow up with tilts or jabs, or maybe more bairs. Egg Lay shouldbe mixed in with bairs as they compliment each other. Egg Lay beats shields and Bair beats spot dodges. Jab is another good one to get the opponent away. You can cancel the second for a tilt or any other move, really. Egg Toss is good pressure for camping. Egg Toss Slide to get away if they get close. Edge Canceled Eggs are good to use if you happen to be dangling from the edge, just make sure you don't get hit out of it. Up Smash is also great to use. Hits through platforms on most stages. It's got invincibility on the head. It can kill at higher percents, but it may be stale. Pivot Grabs are also really good. Little lag and it's fast. Use the CG on opponents, though they may ground break it. If they happen to be ground breaking, throw them until they are at higher percents, in which case the CG will work since they won't groundbreak fast enough.
Moves not to use: Egg Roll. It's bad and easily punishable. Down B is also laggy, but if you cancel your second jab with this, it can lift them up and kill them. Even if they shield it, there shield can break or it will be SEVERELY damaged. Fsmash is laggy so don't use it much unless you're punishing a whiffed attack or hitting someone as they land with an Air dodge. Don't dair too often because the opponent can shield grab it, and if you don't finish the move before landing, you can get punished at the end lag. Fair is slow and has little range, but it's a lot better off the stage.
Concerned Match ups: Marth because he's Marth. Samus because you can't easily approach. Lucario because Yoshi can't kill well and Lucario is STRONG at higher percents. Link may also be bad, similar to Samus, except he's easy to gimp. Falco and Wolf are pretty hard as well. ROB is also pretty bad.
Good Match ups: A lot of the lower tiers. I can't really think of any match ups he absolutely ***** at that would be a problem for Fox anyways. Poor ganon.
Overall strategies: Depends on the character. Generally bair cancels into tilts and aerial follow ups are good. If you can, Egg Camp and punish their approach, though Egg Camping isn't the MOST useful thing. Use the CG on characters you can. usmash to punish landings. Grab to punish landings. Mix up bairs and Egg Lay for approaching. Uair is a kill move, nair has decent power. Gimp characters. Land an Fsmash to punish for a kill. Down B can kill as well. When recovering, make sure not to attack during your DJ unless you're sure you won't get hit out of it, otherwise you may get gimped.
Also, don't take everything I've said as the absolute truth. Do what works for you, those are just general things that are effective in most cases.
Hope this was on time. Good luck!
Okay, well. I'm not that most experienced Yoshi around here, but here are my general ideas.
Pika: This is an even Match up, but you have to think really hard. I've heard it called the hardest match up since you can't relax at all until you win. Camping doesn't work too well, and his aerials will beat yours in most cases, I believe. They both have troubles killing, just note that when you get hit into the air near the top of the screen, don't Air Dodge right away, wait for the Thunder then Dodge away from it. Against Pika you'll generally want to be on your toes. Grabs are nice when you get them, make sure to get a pummel in quickly. Bair can be nice if you space it correctly. Pika's Dair has nice priority, but you can beat it with a spaced uair, I believe. Both characters have problems killing the other, but always be careful.
Sheik: When approaching, make sure not to get hit by a needle or chain. You can nair the ftilt lock. Don't get gimped. Be quick, because she's quick as well. Chase her off stage with spaced bairs to knock her away and edgehog her. Gimps are your friend. Don't get gimped yourself, which shouldn't be hard if you Air Dodge at the appropriate times. I'm not too experienced with this MU personally, though.
IC: Don't get grabbed. Stay aerial, mostly. Space your bairs, don't land near them to get shield grabbed. If they are far, toss some eggs. SH Egg Tosses may work if they're desyncing icicles at you. Don't run into blizzard. If you do happen to grab some of them for some reason, toss them over the edge/into the air immediately and keep them seperated. It's hard to gimp them with because of their >B. Egg Lay their shield if they're getting shield grabby, since it separates them and you'll only have to deal with one for that amount of time. If you manage to get Nana off stage, gimp her and keep Popo away.
Moves to use: Bair is your friend. Cancel into the ground to follow up with tilts or jabs, or maybe more bairs. Egg Lay shouldbe mixed in with bairs as they compliment each other. Egg Lay beats shields and Bair beats spot dodges. Jab is another good one to get the opponent away. You can cancel the second for a tilt or any other move, really. Egg Toss is good pressure for camping. Egg Toss Slide to get away if they get close. Edge Canceled Eggs are good to use if you happen to be dangling from the edge, just make sure you don't get hit out of it. Up Smash is also great to use. Hits through platforms on most stages. It's got invincibility on the head. It can kill at higher percents, but it may be stale. Pivot Grabs are also really good. Little lag and it's fast. Use the CG on opponents, though they may ground break it. If they happen to be ground breaking, throw them until they are at higher percents, in which case the CG will work since they won't groundbreak fast enough.
Moves not to use: Egg Roll. It's bad and easily punishable. Down B is also laggy, but if you cancel your second jab with this, it can lift them up and kill them. Even if they shield it, there shield can break or it will be SEVERELY damaged. Fsmash is laggy so don't use it much unless you're punishing a whiffed attack or hitting someone as they land with an Air dodge. Don't dair too often because the opponent can shield grab it, and if you don't finish the move before landing, you can get punished at the end lag. Fair is slow and has little range, but it's a lot better off the stage.
Concerned Match ups: Marth because he's Marth. Samus because you can't easily approach. Lucario because Yoshi can't kill well and Lucario is STRONG at higher percents. Link may also be bad, similar to Samus, except he's easy to gimp. Falco and Wolf are pretty hard as well. ROB is also pretty bad.
Good Match ups: A lot of the lower tiers. I can't really think of any match ups he absolutely ***** at that would be a problem for Fox anyways. Poor ganon.
Overall strategies: Depends on the character. Generally bair cancels into tilts and aerial follow ups are good. If you can, Egg Camp and punish their approach, though Egg Camping isn't the MOST useful thing. Use the CG on characters you can. usmash to punish landings. Grab to punish landings. Mix up bairs and Egg Lay for approaching. Uair is a kill move, nair has decent power. Gimp characters. Land an Fsmash to punish for a kill. Down B can kill as well. When recovering, make sure not to attack during your DJ unless you're sure you won't get hit out of it, otherwise you may get gimped.
Also, don't take everything I've said as the absolute truth. Do what works for you, those are just general things that are effective in most cases.
Hope this was on time. Good luck!
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
Overall, Yoshi goes even or close to it with all three of those characters, so if those are the ones you're worried about, he should work pretty well for you. I just looked over the IC's impression of the match-up, and it turns out a lot of Yoshi's attacks are very good at seperating them. Apparently Yoshi's Dair de-synchs their up-B, so it can be effective if you use it properly. Stay unpredictable so they can't figure out your patterns and grab you. But yeah, Delta pretty much covered most of it. Down B is a good surprise KO move, but it only really KOs when you use it from the ground, so try not to use it in the air.
Good luck. ^.^
Good luck. ^.^
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Thank you guys so much, the jab cancels I know will come in handy when trying to kill.
Also, knowing that Yoshi goes near even with those characters is a HUGE boost for me. My worst nightmare is seeing my Fox get wrecked, and knowing he would be the whole time anyways.
You guys are the best, seriously thanks for getting back to me so quick. May I make this my second home?
Now I'm just worried I'll make a mockery of Yoshi, when personally I think he's an excellent character if you have the patience.
Also, knowing that Yoshi goes near even with those characters is a HUGE boost for me. My worst nightmare is seeing my Fox get wrecked, and knowing he would be the whole time anyways.
You guys are the best, seriously thanks for getting back to me so quick. May I make this my second home?
Now I'm just worried I'll make a mockery of Yoshi, when personally I think he's an excellent character if you have the patience.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Glad to help. And you must certainly not have this as your second home! We don't allow rich people who have two homes here.
Also, you will be shunned and exiled forever if you make a mockery of Yoshi. No pressure though.
Also, you will be shunned and exiled forever if you make a mockery of Yoshi. No pressure though.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
So I can't has stay?
And don't worry, people in the back watching me thought I MAINED Yoshi. Lol at the 50% combo and perfect MK counter I managed to pull off.
Thanks again for the advice guys it helped a lot. Jab>Down-b was amazing.
However, I didn't do so well against this Shiek XD.
And don't worry, people in the back watching me thought I MAINED Yoshi. Lol at the 50% combo and perfect MK counter I managed to pull off.
Thanks again for the advice guys it helped a lot. Jab>Down-b was amazing.
However, I didn't do so well against this Shiek XD.