The Official Yoshi FAQ/Q&A Thread -- [Please look here before posting!]

[Delta-cod]

Allstar intense is more entertaining than practicing the timing for Y-B-C. Plus, it contributes to completing everything in the Vault challenges, and I'm a completion tryhard.

ONLY THREE MORE CHARACTERSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[Z'zgashi]

Which 3?

 

[Delta-cod]

GnW, Snake, Sonic.

I also don't play this game by myself too often.

I foresee Sonic being an absolute pain to do.

 

[Z'zgashi]

GW and Snake should be pretty easy (in comparison to other character at least) considering their range tho

 

[Delta-cod]

Yeah.

Problem is the CPUs like to bull**** PS everything. >_>

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Scatz is such a smart player, make sure the baby Yoshi's listen to him. And after playing him, I didn't realize how mindgamey he was as a character. It truly is something to be applied more, especially with his DR movement. You could run circles & lots of traps/baits around some characters. I don't see any reason why a Yoshi couldnt win at least a regional with super smarts & great tech skill.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Scatz is such a smart player, make sure the baby Yoshi's listen to him. And after playing him, I didn't realize how mindgamey he was as a character. It truly is something to be applied more, especially with his DR movement. You could run circles & lots of traps/baits around some characters. I don't see any reason why a Yoshi couldnt win at least a regional with super smarts & great tech skill.

If only top Yoshis would actually practice tech skill

 

[RaptorTEC]

Why are all of us so lazy.

 

[Z'zgashi]

You tell me

 

[Sinister Slush]

If only top Yoshis would actually practice tech skill

If only there was top Yoshis.

 

[Z'zgashi]

There would be if they practiced tech skill.

Obviously.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The closest we got for a top level Yoshi was Polt and he was a High level player at best.

I'm basically saying if Polt's basic but safe style can get him in good placings along with making some actual money here or there, tech skill isn't necessarily needed but it can help. Especially when I was the one having to teach him how to B-reverse and Platform cancel with Dair back in 2010 instead of pressing down twice.

 

[Scatz]

I'll explain what I told Gadiel yesterday when I actually have a moment.

Expect to see this posted edited later

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

The closest we got for a top level Yoshi was Polt and he was a High level player at best.

I'm basically saying if Polt's basic but safe style can get him in good placings along with making some actual money here or there, tech skill isn't necessarily needed but it can help. Especially when I was the one having to teach him how to B-reverse and Platform cancel with Dair back in 2010 instead of pressing down twice.

Tech skill is needed at top level especially with a mid/low tier character. You have to outsmart your opponents in order to win, and placing high every now and then doesnt really cut it when winning is what matters.

And you Yoshis can laugh at me all you want but the DR movement and confusing your opponent is what will make you a better player, and thats not including the other things that make a top player. I think if Delta could apply it & get better, you Yoshis could see a 1st major tournament win.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Polt already won a tournament back in 2011.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nah, Deltas too free to get first, but I can guarantee you he could change his 17th curse to like, a 13th or 9th curse.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yooooo wtf is with this **** talk.

Slush, I think Gadiel was referring to -major- tournament win. I think Polt won like, a small local where people were getting drunk. Or something.

I mean, I've won a major tournament before anyways. International All Brawl Champion of the World. Let's gooooooooooooooooo.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Its not **** talk if its true.

 

[~Firefly~]

Yoshi isn't good enough to win a major tournament. =s

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Yoshi isn't good enough to win a major tournament. =s

I think he is, especially if the player is smart enough. His bad matchups aren't that bad are they? Plus he has extreme mobility along with a camp game, olimar esque grab game, and good priority and damage output.

Don't put lies in your head that Yoshi isn't good enough. There were like a ton of people, even Snakeee that claimed ZSS wasn't good enough & look what happened. Yoshi has tons of mindgames, and he is def at least a borderline. IMO, every mid tier save for a few & Yoshi/Ness are capable of winning huge events, its just the likely ness of it happening is lower the further you go down the list, but its at least possible if you are smart/dedicated enough.

 

[Delta-cod]

Hey Gashi, MM me for a large sum of money. We'll see who's free then.

I personally believe Yoshi can succeed. It's highly dependent on our bracket, though. If we see a Falco, it's GGs. Outside of that, top/high tier MUs are actually not too bad. We go slight disadvantage/even with most of them except for MK, Lucario, and Falco. There are some mid tier MUs that are kinda ehhhhhhhh. I personally struggle with Fox, for example.

But yeah, I feel overall Yoshi is a character of slight disadvantaged/even MUs. Definitely conquerable, outside of a select few obstacles.

This is what I think our MU spread should look like, with maybe some slight changes among the 0 and -1 category here and there. Olimar is something I'm definitely iffy on.


-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

 

[Nikes]

What makes Marth -1 instead of -2? Has someone exploited his weakness against us or something?

 

[Delta-cod]

It got switched last year.

He doesn't have any specific weakness against us. The thing is, is that neither character is too strong against the other. The MU actually tends to devolve into "whoever kills first, wins" since neither character can really safely kill the other. Kills require super commitment, lol. Marth requires a little less, which is why he's got the advantage.

 

[FF WuvS]

Hey Gashi, MM me for a large sum of money. We'll see who's free then.

I personally believe Yoshi can succeed. It's highly dependent on our bracket, though. If we see a Falco, it's GGs. Outside of that, top/high tier MUs are actually not too bad. We go slight disadvantage/even with most of them except for MK, Lucario, and Falco. There are some mid tier MUs that are kinda ehhhhhhhh. I personally struggle with Fox, for example.

But yeah, I feel overall Yoshi is a character of slight disadvantaged/even MUs. Definitely conquerable, outside of a select few obstacles.

This is what I think our MU spread should look like, with maybe some slight changes among the 0 and -1 category here and there. Olimar is something I'm definitely iffy on.


-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

Oh hey, MU talk. That's something I could sort of get into!

To me (and this is coming from someone that's opposite of you Delta), I think that Lucario and Falco should be switched, Fox should be -2/-3 (though, with your playstyle, I could see it being -1, but as a whole, I would say -2), Olimar (as we've discussed) should be -1, Snake I'm iffy on, but I really feel like 65:35 (I would call that -2, right?) is proper.
There's probably a few others I would change, but for now, I think those are the major one. I guess I should state why I feel those changes.

I see why you put -3 since Falco is such a horrible beast of a character (I recently just got 6-stocked by Shugo LOL, but other Falcos I don't have a hard time against) but I think rushing him down is an insanely good option most of the time. At early percents, I've noticed (this isn't completely confirmed, but I've been able to do it nearly everytime) after the third CG you can NAir out of it, which helps pervert that 30%+ CG. I can normally air-dodge to approach and short-hop BAir > UTilt (obv.) him to get him in the air and as long as we're below him, he seems bearable. I think aerially we do really nicely against him. But reading his landing with some pivot grabs is super nice (D-Throw to Reverse B-Reverse is good on everyone) and his recovery is just so easy to predict that we have him offstage, granted you don't get too greedy. Also, GR > Offstage we have a Egglay on him, also if you're feelin super good, go for the spike (but Egglay is a lot safer lol.)
EDIT: I say this is -2. Should have added this earlier, but yeah lol.

- To me, this just seems like a super braindead MU for Fox. But again, different perspectives make for different opinions. You're (Delta*, sorry for excluding everyone else Dx) super trained in this MU, so you handle it so properly, whereas I'm just like "What do I do with my controller to make it so I win? My turbo button isn't doing the trick ._." Seems like running away, lasering, and USmash is all he really needs to do. Yoshi has a hard time killing, camping is just harder, but some of our typical things still work (BAir > UTilt) but it just seems so insanely hard for us to work with what we have to work against what Fox has. Sorry I couldn't go into detail.

:trela: - Oh god ;~; This MU to me is just complete and utter hell, my gosh. I find this to be (call me crazy) 8:2, or our worst MU. I don't think I've watched any other Yoshi play this MU, but to me, I don't know how to handle it. His long lasting hitboxes that just beat anything we have (excluding eggs) is just so dumb. Aerially he just seems to dominate us, clashing seems like that's the best we would be able to do. Killing him seems to be problematic, and of course, if we don't kill him relatively fast, he gains so much power that it makes it even more painstakingly hard to kill him. Maybe I'm just not well versed in this MU to talk about it adquetely enough, but I just tremble at it.

- Oh man, I love this MU so much (no, really, I do!) I'm not one for being camping and taking my time, but I thoroughly enjoy it! I could talk for days about this MU, but I'll leave that for if:
1) My other descriptions were ok.
2) Anyone is actually interested in listening to me ramble about it.
3) If so, I guess I could continue on Snake, Olimar, and possibly a few others. I guess I'm really opinionated on Yoshi stuff ._.;

I'm sorry if my explanations weren't good/clear/descriptive enough. I could answer some questions and whatnot, but yeah. Also, sorry for all the parenthesis I used.

 

[Scatz]

Alright, so instead of editing my previous, I'ma just make a new post.

What I was explaining to Gadiel was how important mental play is and how to understand it. People fail to realize that everything being done at high level of play is completely mental, and this isn't just for fighting games. Every single skirmish boils down to a rock, paper, scissor decisions, but many other factors help influence the choices.

People always have trouble understanding why people are able to play at such a high level and how one acquires it. My question(s) I ask people:

How well do you "know" your character?
How well do you understand what your character can do against another character?
How well do you know your character's strengths and weaknesses?

People always say, "I know my character pretty well," but can you explain how and why it works/doesn't work? Realize, technical skill is just a pre-requisite. It only aids to mental play because it's the difference between getting that clutch kill, or choking because you've doubted yourself. Or you could've gotten the punish if you had the execution for it. The physical aspect of any game doesn't change its role. More technical games just means that you have a bigger pre-requisite to worry about.

Mentally, you have to be a robot. You can't let one single thing get to you because the opponent is just trying to break you down. You get frustrated or over hyped, and you might as well throw in the towel. A handful of top players in fighting games have clear poker faces (Infrit, Salem, Combofiend, & Fanatiq are just a few to name) where they let very little faze them. Why? Because they know that it's never over. It's not only your job to mentally break your opponent into making more mistakes, but you have to stay strong too.

Time also plays a factor in being mentally unfazed. While it will never be timeouts in every [brawl] match, realize that the downtime between the games just mean more time for you to either get yourself together or psyche (or downplay) yourself out of the set/tournament. You could be on the verge of 3 stocking someone and let yourself get overhyped. When that happens, you start making mistakes cause you (not directly) believe your choices will be too minimal to matter, which then if you were to lose, you'll be disgusted with what happened, mentally broken down. Now you'll go into the the downtime not only having to figure out where you'll take your opponent to get an edge, but you have to also focus on trying to get your mind straight just so that you can have a chance in round 2. It's mentally exhausting to constantly do moreso than worrying about the tournament if you didn't have to keep going to round 3.

There's much more to say, but I don't have full understanding of mental play myself. I could explain how important spacing, pressure, camping, stage control, and positioning is, but it's just going to take far too long for me to write with it being so late.

All of it might seem like its simple, but we tend to forget how to control our mind or let emotions get to us, and for the record, if I were to explain the stuff in the paragraph above, it would all link into the most important aspect of competitive gaming: mindgames and mental play.

Edit: For the record Wuvs, I've explained how to play against Fox. It's not what most Yoshis are experienced with and neither is Lucario (myself included on the latter). Delta has had extreme experience with Lucario and had recent success vs him. I've definitely explain that Falco is one that beats us in every neutral scenario. We prefer being mid range just to piss him off, but he just has too many options that lead into big damage for us to keep up. What makes it worse is most times he places us far away after that, which just makes everything a headache to get back in.

You should talk more. It'll at least help other Yoshis find a breakthrough for the MUs others struggle in.

 

[FF WuvS]

Scatz, I want your brain. I wish I could process my thoughts into actual words like you. You explained that so excellently, makes me jealous. What you were talking about slightly reminds me of Gimpy's video about your character.

If you don't mind, I would like to add to the mental aspect of your speech. Over time, I've noticed that, throwing in the towel isn't always sound like a bad options and can be beneficial to you, but let me elaborate a little bit more on what I mean on this with a personal experience.

• This past weekend I was at a Smashfest but everyone decided to have a practice tourney for this coming weekend. When I was in Winner's R2, I had to play a good friend of mine (an Olimar), so we both know how we play throughout sets. Game 1 I won pretty convincingly, so that helps with my momentum a bit, which is always nice to carry into the next game. Game 2, however, I wasn't expecting him to CP me to Halberd (never thought of that for an Olimar CP, but it fits.) Well, much to my surprise, it was a super good CP for him and I was losing pretty badly, about two minutes in and I was at my last stock, 100%+ to his 2 stocks, mid-60%s, but I thought, "Huh, if I continue this match, my composure will be affected and the momentum will be with him heavily." And when I thought that the momentum with me was a benefit, why should I give him the same thing? So I "rage quit" that match, that way he doesn't get complete momentum that will help him over into game three. Also, he gave his ban instantly, which indicated to me that he really wanted to keep that "oh, I'm ****** him, let's continue that" type of momentum/motivation.

So of course, the "throwing in the towel" is situational (as stated, you're up game one and doing bad game two, quit to disrupt their flow for game three.) May sound like a bad option, but I thought it was decently viable. Also, taking your time on your on picking your CP when you're down doesn't seem like a bad option (not sure if people already do that.) I think that's all I can properly input for the "mental" aspect of the game. Possibly I could add more when it's not almost four in the morning.

I don't talk much because I find that my views are so different then everyone else's and don't want people being like "lol what is this man talking about?" I hardly even look through stuff on SWF. I'll lurk through a page or two of the most recent post, but I hardly post myself. Too shy~
#UrbanMyth

But I guess that playing against Fox/Lucario as you stated, even if I read about what to do, I would still be slightly lost because I'm my abnormally aggro/Zudenka playstyle and I don't really like to change my playstyle from character to character (of course with someone like the Spacies to someone as DK I'll Egg camp more and whatnot, but generally, I'll do similar stuff throughout.) I would probably take the pointers and use them as I will, so it would help as a whole, just in a different form.

I guess I'm just weird because I enjoy the Falco MU (as long as it's not against Shugo ;~;!) I don't like Falco's getting away from me, so being in their face makes them have to think faster and it doesn't seem like too many do that (excluding top Falco, of course~) Their CG > DACUS is pretty bad for us, jab beats ours, laser are dumb, but when I played WTP's, Roller's, Magus, or other Falco's in my state, I haven't had too much trouble with just rushing in and giving them hell. ┐(￣ー￣)┌

 

[MX778]

Didn't even read the above posts yet. I'm about to get slapped with a wall of text. LOL

I do agree with Gadiel about using the gimmicks of your kinda good/ bad character to your advantage. When push comes to shove, you gotta' pull out all of the stops. Though, I personally think that each of our styles of Yoshi will directly determine how well/terrible some of these MU's with turn out. For example:

Delta's legendary patience is great against characters who aren't that spectacular at approaching and ones we have to carefully score hits on. This style also works as a anti-offense strategy against those who are mad aggressive. Which in this case, this style would be most suitable against and especially . Unfortunately, this style won't work entirely against characters with overwhelming stage control. Examples are: and mayyyybe

Scatz's robotic DR baiting skills are great against characters that would overcommit to certain options (like R.O.B using Nair or something) and can punish even the smallest mistakes when applied correctly. I see this being most useful against the following characters: (possibly). Although, this style has similar weaknesses just like Delta's style because well.. We're Yoshi. This style struggles against characters with already ******** range/good projectilesand it's very difficult to bait an approach that they don't really have to make. Can't really bait what you can't reach. Examples (if they play ghey) and

Raptor's "random" passive aggressive playstyle seems to excel on characters that are
No, but seriously I haven't actually seen enough of Raptor to correctly judge, but from what I've seen this style seems to work well against characters with a good projectiles and characters that like to play a "keep away" strategy. this style is also good with keeping pressure on characters that'd be otherwise a ***** to fight against. Examples are:
I don't know wether it's just Raptor or not, but despite all the goodies above, this style struggles against characters that would otherwise require lots and lots of patience to fight against.
Examples are: and uhh... Maaaaybe ?

I didn't include Meta Knight in any of them because **** Meta Knight. We're Yoshi and we're not gonna' beat any knowledgeable Meta Knight anyway. It won't matter what style we play, Meta Knight outgheys us in every way that we'd fear getting dragged into that spooky castle in Yoshi's Story. I will never ever go Yoshi on another Meta Knight. Unless it's a top 5 MK. Other than that, nope. <---- As far as Brawl goes, this character can kiss my ***.

That's all for now. I'll probably put more later.
Shoutouts to Evanescence's "Fallen" album playing throughout the entirety of me typing all this on my phone.

Oh and WuvS. I didn't see that set I had with Player-1 in the thread. D:

 

[Z'zgashi]

@Delta: I ****ing play Bowser, why on earth would I willingly mm a Yoshi.

@Wuvs: Lucario is free. Like, once you play Lucario more, you start to realize that Lucario just isnt as good as he is on paper, and if you take the MU slow, hes honestly not a huge deal. Sure, he's probably in our top 3 hardest due to him getting stronger as we cant kill him easily, but Falco is MUCH worse, and MK is probably a bit worse as well.

 

[FF WuvS]

That's because Twitch's video player freezes after a certain point while splicing and I can't figure out how to get past that point ._. I'm still working on that, sorry MX~

Spoiler

Also, you need to read that wall of text cuz I actually spent timing thinking! ;___;

I don't know if it's just me underestimating Olimar or other's putting him high on a pedalstool, but I think that we do really nicely against Olimar. Outside the Top 5 Olimars or so(in no particular order, L_Cancel, Rich Brown, Denti, Dabuz, Logic?, and maybe a few others), I don't find Olimar's that hard at all. The only one that beats me in my state is L_Cancel (Ori sometimes, but I would consider that 75:25), but other then that, Yoshi omnomnom on Olimar's. I think if Delta had a little bit more experience in the Olimar MU at PS5, you could have beaten him (er, I'm only assuming that you didn't have too much practice, but then again, you probably had Dabuz....) But I think a Yoshi with skills and smarts, such as Polt or Delta, could take down Olimar's without a problem. From what I've experienced (and knowledge as a whole) from Olimar's, we seem to be a really good check to him seeing as a lot of our options plain out beat his (excluding Yellow Pikmin most of the time because Yellow is super f***ing dumb >_>)

Spoiler

Again, I could probably go into some deep-depth about the Olimar MU since that's easily in my top three most known MU, along with Diddy and someone else~

Oh gosh, I did leave a semi-wall of text. I'm sorry ;~;!

EDIT: Oh, didn't see Gashi's post, probably should address that~
I guess I'm switching Olimar/Other character with Lucario/MK/Falco in my book. I don't truly fear MKs all that much (I'm not going to say what I think that MU is because people will probably laugh lulz.) I think I could have beaten Tyrant if I wasn't little salty about waiting 23 minutes to play out set, but I digress~
It's just weird for me to explain myself properly on why I think what on certain MUs. I fear Fox, Lucario, and Snakes (to an extent), but I have fun with Falco, MK, and Olimar. I guess I'll talk more in detail once other's give their input and I can be like "Oh, I do blah blah blah" or "Oh, something to do is ---" etc, etc~

Spoiler

Sorry I'm not too informative xD; I'm actually not use to talk to others about Yoshi or in general.

Spoiler

Let's post more spoilers But I may post what I think the MU chart is base solely on my experience, knowledge, and factors that are purely on me. I just don't want to be shot LOL

 

[Z'zgashi]

Olimar is pretty borderline near -2 and -1 imo, could go either way, but I think its closer to -2.

 

[~Firefly~]

Shoutouts to Evanescence's "Fallen" album playing throughout the entirety of me typing all this on my phone.

Awwww yeah.

 

[RaptorTEC]

MX you were spot on for the most part Just switch TL with D3 and take Mario off and you're 100% right about what you listed. xD I also really like Snake.

@Gashi I actually agree with Wuvs about it being not TOO bad. I'd side closer to a -1

 

[Scatz]

For all who struggles against the Snake matchup, just teleport them under the stage. Problem solved~

 

[Delta-cod]

Oh hey, MU talk. That's something I could sort of get into!

To me (and this is coming from someone that's opposite of you Delta), I think that Lucario and Falco should be switched, Fox should be -2/-3 (though, with your playstyle, I could see it being -1, but as a whole, I would say -2), Olimar (as we've discussed) should be -1, Snake I'm iffy on, but I really feel like 65:35 (I would call that -2, right?) is proper.
There's probably a few others I would change, but for now, I think those are the major one. I guess I should state why I feel those changes.

Snake literally ONLY beats us because of huge kill power discrepancies. Like, if you watch me vs. Ally at PS5, the matches are really close. Then I have to kill. Like, it's ****ing impossible to kill him. It's so lame.

I see why you put -3 since Falco is such a horrible beast of a character (I recently just got 6-stocked by Shugo LOL, but other Falcos I don't have a hard time against) but I think rushing him down is an insanely good option most of the time. At early percents, I've noticed (this isn't completely confirmed, but I've been able to do it nearly everytime) after the third CG you can NAir out of it, which helps pervert that 30%+ CG. I can normally air-dodge to approach and short-hop BAir > UTilt (obv.) him to get him in the air and as long as we're below him, he seems bearable. I think aerially we do really nicely against him. But reading his landing with some pivot grabs is super nice (D-Throw to Reverse B-Reverse is good on everyone) and his recovery is just so easy to predict that we have him offstage, granted you don't get too greedy. Also, GR > Offstage we have a Egglay on him, also if you're feelin super good, go for the spike (but Egglay is a lot safer lol.)
EDIT: I say this is -2. Should have added this earlier, but yeah lol.

Falco has insane reset ability against us. We can't really deal with any of his options. Lasers destroy us, phantasm is practically unpunishable, and jab stuffs everything we can do. We really can't carry momentum on him at all if the Falco is aware of how incapable we are of punishing his resets. We can't kill him either. He gets a free 50-60% off a low percent grab with Dair tech chases.

I'm pretty sure the non-Shugo Falcos aren't abusing Yoshi enough. I used to think the MU was -1! Then Falcos stopped just playing Falco, and they started playing the Match Up. And now I get bodied by every Falco ever.

- To me, this just seems like a super braindead MU for Fox. But again, different perspectives make for different opinions. You're (Delta*, sorry for excluding everyone else Dx) super trained in this MU, so you handle it so properly, whereas I'm just like "What do I do with my controller to make it so I win? My turbo button isn't doing the trick ._." Seems like running away, lasering, and USmash is all he really needs to do. Yoshi has a hard time killing, camping is just harder, but some of our typical things still work (BAir > UTilt) but it just seems so insanely hard for us to work with what we have to work against what Fox has. Sorry I couldn't go into detail.

Fox lacks decent horizontal approaches from the air, and his reset ability is much more limited than Falco's. His lasers also don't stun us, so we can actually take our time while approaching, wait it out at mid range, and pick a good spot to go in. The trick is to NOT worry about laser damage.

:trela: - Oh god ;~; This MU to me is just complete and utter hell, my gosh. I find this to be (call me crazy) 8:2, or our worst MU. I don't think I've watched any other Yoshi play this MU, but to me, I don't know how to handle it. His long lasting hitboxes that just beat anything we have (excluding eggs) is just so dumb. Aerially he just seems to dominate us, clashing seems like that's the best we would be able to do. Killing him seems to be problematic, and of course, if we don't kill him relatively fast, he gains so much power that it makes it even more painstakingly hard to kill him. Maybe I'm just not well versed in this MU to talk about it adquetely enough, but I just tremble at it.

If you take your time against Lucario, you can use your mobility to get around his priority and stuff. It takes a good amount of familiarity with how Lucario can move and his ranges and stuff. But it's definitely NOT a -3.

- Oh man, I love this MU so much (no, really, I do!) I'm not one for being camping and taking my time, but I thoroughly enjoy it! I could talk for days about this MU, but I'll leave that for if:
1) My other descriptions were ok.
2) Anyone is actually interested in listening to me ramble about it.
3) If so, I guess I could continue on Snake, Olimar, and possibly a few others. I guess I'm really opinionated on Yoshi stuff ._.;

You should definitely write about this MU. None of us really have good practice in the MU, so it'd be appreciated.

I don't talk much because I find that my views are so different then everyone else's and don't want people being like "lol what is this man talking about?" I hardly even look through stuff on SWF. I'll lurk through a page or two of the most recent post, but I hardly post myself. Too shy~
#UrbanMyth

Dude, post more. We're not gonna shoot you for your opinions. Sometimes it takes radical opinions to open people's eyes to options and stuff.

@Delta: I ****ing play Bowser, why on earth would I willingly mm a Yoshi.

Then you have no place to call anyone free. Get outta here.

I don't know if it's just me underestimating Olimar or other's putting him high on a pedalstool, but I think that we do really nicely against Olimar. Outside the Top 5 Olimars or so(in no particular order, L_Cancel, Rich Brown, Denti, Dabuz, Logic?, and maybe a few others), I don't find Olimar's that hard at all. The only one that beats me in my state is L_Cancel (Ori sometimes, but I would consider that 75:25), but other then that, Yoshi omnomnom on Olimar's. I think if Delta had a little bit more experience in the Olimar MU at PS5, you could have beaten him (er, I'm only assuming that you didn't have too much practice, but then again, you probably had Dabuz....) But I think a Yoshi with skills and smarts, such as Polt or Delta, could take down Olimar's without a problem. From what I've experienced (and knowledge as a whole) from Olimar's, we seem to be a really good check to him seeing as a lot of our options plain out beat his (excluding Yellow Pikmin most of the time because Yellow is super f***ing dumb >_>)

Spoiler

Again, I could probably go into some deep-depth about the Olimar MU since that's easily in my top three most known MU, along with Diddy and someone else~

Explain Olimar dude. And Diddy too, if you want. Those are two match ups we're severely lacking experience in. I've played Dabuz like, twice. Iunno how many times Raptor's played him. The most Diddy practice I've ever gotten was from that night before PS5 where I friendlied Zino for a couple hours. We need your input.

I guess I'm switching Olimar/Other character with Lucario/MK/Falco in my book. I don't truly fear MKs all that much (I'm not going to say what I think that MU is because people will probably laugh lulz.) I think I could have beaten Tyrant if I wasn't little salty about waiting 23 minutes to play out set, but I digress~
It's just weird for me to explain myself properly on why I think what on certain MUs. I fear Fox, Lucario, and Snakes (to an extent), but I have fun with Falco, MK, and Olimar. I guess I'll talk more in detail once other's give their input and I can be like "Oh, I do blah blah blah" or "Oh, something to do is ---" etc, etc~

Spoiler

Sorry I'm not too informative xD; I'm actually not use to talk to others about Yoshi or in general.

Spoiler

Let's post more spoilers But I may post what I think the MU chart is base solely on my experience, knowledge, and factors that are purely on me. I just don't want to be shot LOL

Post your chart.

Talk about the MK MU.

Contribute ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

 

[Scatz]

Dude, post more. We're not gonna shoot you for your opinions. Sometimes it takes radical opinions to open people's eyes to options and stuff.

Yeah. Just look at Delta, he said he thought the Falco MU was -1. I was a firm believer of Falco being one of our worst because I've constantly played vs Kismet when I was active. A Falco that stops worrying about Yoshi and just plays the MU makes us want to rip our hair out.

I've been arguing for Fox to be -1 too. I got bodied by Olimar at Apex 2012, so yeah.

 

[Delta-cod]

I think Fox is currently at a -1 on the chart, Scatz.

But yeah, it wasn't until I played a Falco that played the MU that I realized how badly Falco bopped us.

 

[RaptorTEC]

I thought you realized that when a Falco playing the mu wrong was still able to beat you.

 

[Delta-cod]

If by playing wrong you mean "having no idea the finer intricacies of the MU but realizing that pew pew > Jab > Zip was working", then yeah.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Well if Falco is a bad matchup, then maybe it's the stage you should consider to beat him. Like FD might be unwinnable(even though I don't think anything is unwinnable), you should pick BF, SV, PKS1, Lylat, or YI for your neutral. For example, MK can beat ICs on YI/SV/BF because of the platforms and the ability to camp/timeout/play safe. It's proven from Apex matches(9B vs Anti, Vinnie vs Otori) if you just watch them. Yoshi could probably beat Falco after he has the lead on SV. Maybe you'd need to time them out, idk the strategy, but anything is possible in this game.

 

[FF WuvS]

The WubWubWuvsWall of Text headed your way!

Delta, you are free <3

Spoiler

I mean, Venusaur

- The only person to truly do resets against me was Shugo, he knew that MU super well (or I guess his character in general.) I was actually surprised he didn't footstool me more (well, he didn't at all, but you know) because he seems like at certain percents, CG > DAir > Follow us down > Footstool is near promised on us D: But I believe your correct and Falco's aren't abusing us enough. I too use to think this was -1, but more MU experience just showed that it's -2, but I still find the MU fun regardless. There are other things I could talk about, but probably a little futile to do so since... lol, everyone is super against this MU. I don't have any concrete points to truly make that could have you guys reconsider.

- Lol, taking time. I AIN'T GOT TIEM 4DAT. But after what you and MX told me, I think I could actually do better against Fox's by not worrying much about laser damage and the PIVOTGRABEERYTHINGSLKD:JFLDF type deal once he has to try to KO us with USmash is a thing to remember. But until I improve (even then, I doubt it'll change much), I think it's still our second hardest MU. Maybe I'm being too text and book about it.

- Completely agree, can't really add much here. I want to say like 65:35 on this, but I'll post my MU chart below~

- I guess I just need to tone myself down for a bit like I do with Olimar/ICs (sort of) and beat around the bush a bit. I just find it so annoying when my friends switch to Lucario and I'm like "WELP, this is going to be fun." My mentality is also probably hindering me. Still find this MU super dumb.

- I don't know why, I find this match-up pretty fun. I find it to be 4:6 MK because a lot of MKs, unless it's a top level MK, most MKs think they know what they're doing when really, he play super scared. I'm sure every Yoshi really knows this MU, but I guess I'll talk about more indepth.

The main problem I truly see is U/DAir and Nado. Nado, of coruse, being the easiest to handle since our eggs beat it, USmash beats it, bait him to lower himself and chase you > pivot grab, etc. Problem is, once you get hit by that nado, it's annoying to land and get out (I don't know if it's me, I just mash up on the Control Stick and Jump. Kind of work, any other suggestions?) Of course, eggs and grab release are our best friend. MU makes it slightly harder for them to approach since I've noticed a lot of MKs like to DAir camp me (if not, they're actually aggro like they should be and **** me.) Eggs will flat out be it and if they're low enough, a USmash should do just fine (thanks to the head invincibility.) Egglay seems very meh to me in this MU, but I still like it as a GR > Offstage option. Spiking, to me, actually seems like a very viable option since most MKs will be like "Oh, they don't really do that anymore, do they?" But the spike seems to be situtational as in:

• 1) If you're completely on the edge, you really have to chase them down. Usually they'll jump/UAir/DAir you before hand, so directly on the ledge is blah, I'd rather go for Egglay.

• 2) If you are about a Down-B/Fox Trot away from the ledge, that's when I find it key to spike/attempt to something risky. For whatever reason, I don't know if they just can't do anything or if it's actually decently for sure thing, but that's when spikes seem easiest to me. Granted, our spike (I should say Meteor Smash, but whatever~) is the second weakest in the game, if I recall correctly.

Our guaranteed kill on MK with GR > USmash at 125% is always super nice. I always try to rely on that (I don't know if that sounds bad, but I always try to end it like that.)
Uh... don't know what else to put. Grounded he seems to have the edge, but we put up a good fight. MK's DSmash is super dumb, USmash shouldn't have to worry about (because really, who uses MK's USmash?) and FSmash is a high risk/high reward type of move to me. Aerially we get beat up pretty badly, but unless we're offstage (or super high up), I wouldn't be too heavily scared. Our NAir is just so nice to have. UAir is always <3 Hopefully this little description I put isn't too bad. Any questions I could try to answer or whatever, I don't know lol ._.;

OH MAN, YOU GUYS ARE IN FOR A TREAT

For the sake of this conversation, I'll say the MU is -1

Spoiler

But I truly believe it's even or even +1 for us. DON'T SHOOT ME ;_____;!!!

I'm going to put this out there. You can disagree with me all you want, but I firmly believe that every option Olimar has, Yoshi has an option to beat it (excluding yellows cuz YOLO.)

Spoiler

(...I'm sorry for that horrendous joke xD; Yellow.... Yolo.)

So, with all my MU practice I've had, Yoshi is a super awesome check to Olimar. Our BAir completely shuts down the Pikmin Throw attack (lol, I can't remember the precise name.) So you can semi-reliably approach with BAir, but space it properly so you don't get grab. If you see an opening, BAir > UTilt > UAir is super nice. In the air, Olimar is super free, in my opinion (I don't use abbreviations that often.) Eggs do a very nice job protecting you from Pikmin throw and doing damage to the Pikmin. I believe the health scale goes:

• White: 4-6%
• Yellow: 9-12%
• Red: 9-12%
• Blue: 14%
• Purple: 15%

So Eggs will kill Whites, possibly kill Yellows, Reds, and put a very nice dent into Blue and Purples. A nice note is that if you Egglay Olimar, all his Pikmin are vulnerable for attack, so go after the Pikmin, not Olimar (preferably Yellow and Purples, but really, just UAir EERYTHIGN!) Olimar's smashes are dumb, but we can surprisingly handle them

Spoiler

(Excluding Yellows >_>).

FSmash is truly only dangerous when you're on the ledge, so beware that if they throw them off, they're still a hitbox and they're still down. DSmash is stupid dumb. The hitboxes seem unothrodox and I wouldn't want to challenge it, even from above (unless you're directly above him.) USmash, surprisingly enough, if you're above him, you don't need to fear. Our DAir will actually beat out any USmash he has (yes, even a fully charged Purple USmash, I've done it in tourney and friendlies numerous times.)
Disclaimer: You have to be between (I'd say) 33%-66% (roughly around there) way through the DAir for it to be able to "clash" (aka we tie with it.) Any sooner then that and you risk losing, afterwords not too sure. I'd say better later then sooner~
Pivot grabbing is near useless here unless they're going for a USmash kill, otherwise you won't need it much. But a nice note is that our DASH GRAB beats all Olimar's grab because he "hop" over the Pikmin.
Of course, offstage is can go either way. If we're offstage, egg camping isn't bad, but I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed but:

• When we use our Up-B, our hurtboxes become out of wack and grow by a very abnormal amount. I can't say what the deal is with that, but egg camping is semi-unsafe due to that fact that our hurtboxes are HUGE during that time.

If you're expecting a F/DSmash, do your best to either rising BAir or air-dodge through it (or possibly a B-Reserve.) If you're expecting a USmash, a raising DAir seems to work just fine.
If Olimar is the one recovering, we are at a very good state. Yeah, Olimar's recovery can be weird, but at the same time, INSANELY gimpable, especially if you're patient and do "fancy" things by the edge to stall him out. Rushing down and pivoting towards the ledge/doing a reverse Down-B is a nice way to stall time before he Up-B's (also, when we're the close the ledge and an Olimar Up-B, the game seems to always give up priority to us, as if the ledge is already taken by us.) You could also go down and do a raising NAir to push him back a bit (I don't think an Olimar is daring enough to try to attack.) If Olimar has two or less Pikmin, he'll generally just throw them away and use Up-B (something about having no Pikmin over one or two Pikmin gives him a bigger height and/or possibly large ledge-grab range.)
Aerially, I think we're pretty sound. Olimar is pretty strong, but we're Yoshi, we're just amazing in the air. His UAir can be DI'ed out of fairly easily, shouldn't really get his with DAir, NAir olololol

Spoiler

Isn't too bad -cough-

, F/BAir is pretty strong, so watch out for those. I just think that Olimar is more about protection in the air rather then offense.
Olimar has some crazy good throws (mostly with Purples and Blues.) Blues can kill with FThrow, BThrow, and UThrow. Those throws for blues are powerful in both aspects of knockback and percents.

Blue Throw Info: (all KO percents are ~)

• FThrow: 13%, strongest FThrow in the game (kills probably around 140%)
• UThrow: 12%, can kill but Purples kill earlier (probably kills around 160-170%)
• BThrow: The real killer of the group for Blues. 14% and probably the second stronger BThrow in game.

Purple Throw Info:

• FThrow: 7%, is weaken then Blue, but can still KO, so beware of those percents.
• UThrow: The real kill for Purple. Can probably kill around 130-135%, does I believe 11-12%. Second strongest throw in the game.
• BThrow: 9%, can probably kill, but not too sure on the info for this, sorry.

Now, don't forget to mash out of pummels, but stay in control. All Pikmin do 2% except Whites, who do 4-5% per pummel. Typically Olimar's won't throw you with a White, they'll try to FSmash/Regrab since White's are so weak. If they do throw, I think they're desperate for stage control or needs thinking time (CUZ WE BODY OLIMARS )


Main Points:

• Egglay allows us to kill Pikmin
• Dash Grab > All Olimar's Grabs
• DAir can beat Olimar's Smashes
• BAir helps us approach while giving us a great defense
• Eggs are strangely helpful against Pikmin killing.
• He's just as gimpable as we are. Take your time edge-guarding, but don't be a turtle.
• Spoiler

  May edit this with more pointers if I remember

Overall: I believe that Yoshi is a complete check to Olimar with our great way to approach while keeping Pikmin off of us, a variety of ways to kill his Pikmin while also helping maintain our ground, and is pretty gimpable, whichs helps our kill game. I would easily put this MU at 5:5.

Disclaimer 2: Now, I based this as overall Yoshi v Olimar on paper. I'll use this example again, MI has around five or so Olimars, four of which I can beat pretty easily. The last, L_Cancel, can easily **** me (probably due to be a smarter and overall better player.) But let's say Delta/Polt vs L_Cancel with just as much knowledge, skill, and other factors as such (not saying you guys aren't good ;~; You know what I mean, I hope!), I would say that it would lend more towards Yoshi's favor, 55:45.

WuvS M(ost)U(gsome) Chart:

-3 (pre-talk)
-2 (post-talk)
-1
0 ika:
+1
+2
+3
+4

I have more of this stuff memorized and I've taken down notes of in several books. Pretty soon (and here's a cool thing to do if you're nerdy like me )
If you have an Android phone, download Google Drive. That way you can edit notes at home, sync it to the cloud, and when you're at tourneys, you can have your notes on your phone!

Well, I think that's does it for me. Sorry for any typos, confusion, missed characters in my chart, etc, etc.
Final Time writing all of this: 2 hours, 2 minutes.

EDIT: I didn't talk about stage choices or any of the sorts like that. I guess I should have, sorry. I guess I'll discuss that another time~
I'll let people engulf the massive amount of pink vomit I just threw at their screen first :mad070:

EDIT2: I didn't see that Delta wanted me to do Diddy's MU. I'll do that in my next write-up after this one gets talked about some~