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The Official Snake Video Critique Thread!

Limeee

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,797
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
i'll have some vids up soon. vs a really good MK
that i got wrecked against, i wanna figure out his playstyle but he predicts me too hard.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jWIoGPWGvI&feature=channel

no johns, but a few things

- how do i get around nair gimps like that?

-how do i get around charged fsmashes? i was reversing grenades, but the fsmash got my anyways. i don't want to go for the ledge cuz that gives him more options

- i ftilted both hits alot, but he didn't seem to be punishing it alot, so whatever

please help me <3

that bad DI on dthrow costed me the match D:
 

Underload

Lazy
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You were pretty dumb with your shield for most of the match. You run forward and hold shield until you get shieldpoked by nado a couple of times, and at 1:05 you shield for too long while techchasing, which got you grabbed. Obviously MK ***** you with the grabs this match.

The biggest problem I have is how much you decided to use ftilt2. DAS STUPID. If the MK were any better (he really wasn't that great), you would get punished every time for letting ftilt2 land. It really isn't it a 'so, whatever' thing, you really need to work on that.

Don't always react when MK runs up to you and shields. A lot of your mistakes with ftilt2 came during this situation, where you immediately tried hitting him when you saw him running toward you. Grab him instead, or walk away.

Be simpler and more efficient with the grenades, too. I just read this post by Havok, and it's really good advice for you to follow:

I don't think anyone's addressed grenade shenanigans :)

I find that having only ONE grenade active (in Snake's hand or air and ground) is much better than trying to have both bouncing around, this especially holds true if an MK is grounded and waiting for opportunities.

Depending on the MK distance from Snake, switch from:
grenade->shield. Wait.
grenade-> walk backwards.
grenade -> walk forward.
grenade-> walk backwards with Snake's back facing MK
grenade -> toss up/backwards.
grenade-> spot dodge dash attack/grab. (strict read)
grenade -> roll backwards.
grenade -> regular toss. Grenade.
ETC.
Basically all of the options are reactionary. Adjust to what the MK likes to do, for example, some like to upB from the floor to get around any type of a Grenade wall; so you can roll away from the UpB with a grenade in your hand and be ready to punish the UpB with a dash attack etc etc. Think of these grenade patterns as your mixup to MK's position presence.

If an MK is Dair camping, holding a grenade and rolling into the opposite side (using the invincibility frames to get through dairs) gives Snake breathing room to manuever on the floor + a grenade on a possible landing zone for MK. This loses to tornado though, MK's don't always have perfect timing so it's always a nice option to have anyways.

Glide attack can be challenged with a Nair pretty safely (going backwards).

You know that awkward position where you take out a grenade ---> MK tornados your front side? Just toss it backwards, you'll both blow up! Who cares if you're in the air, you both got hit (that's a plus) and you're both relatively in the same situation.

This matchup requires the Snake player to take the slower road to victory. For example, sometimes after a successfully blocked tornado, the MK lands at a distance where Snake MAY be able to ftilt if he gets there in time; I find it much more useful to be in a "take what you can get attitude" and take the weak dash attack instead. It's safer and you're still dealing dmg, instead of risking getting hit, PS, etc etc and punished for being greedy. It's not that you're playing "afraid," you're playing smart! Any type of exposure without a grenade is asking for the Snake player to get hurt (best advice Candy ever gave me).

Sorry if this has already been said, all I did was look at the first post with all the information.
But, yeah, you really aren't bad. There's not too much to harp on.

Now, to answer your questions:
- Avoiding the nair crap: DI the dthrow as far out as possibly at low percents. If you did that, you would've been on the ledge. Even if you didn't do that, you still could've saved yourself by using your 2nd jump low, to get the edge, instead of immediately using it and cyphering. Protip: Cypher is usually the worst position for you to be in, period. I'd rather be in the ledge than up in the air against a decent MK.
- Charged smashes & backwards grenade: It's cool usually, but this MK was smart in how he dsmashed, not fsmashed. If he dsmashes, it won't blow the grenade up if you're in the air. At the very end of the match, you really should've just grabbed the ledge and backwards naded from there. Or just ledgehop from there, iunno.
 

Limeee

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,797
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
thanks, that helped alot.

and killlock is pretty good, just not in this match. His MK doesn't compare to his marth, which is really good.

i have a bad habit of unnecessary shield camping

anything to break that?
 

Underload

Lazy
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
3,433
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Aww ****, I was actually gonna do you first RATED, but I totally blanked. I watched the video and stuff, too. I'll getcha tomorrow, when I'm less tired.
 

Yumewomiteru

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lordhelmet (Snake) vs HyperLite (Luigi) {HD}

I'm a Falcon main, I use Snake as a secondary for impossible hard match-ups. Akneeway, I'd like any advice on Snake or advice for the Luigi match-up
lol PS ftilt to up B, I approve. =D

A few things that I noticed:
A few times you had a favorable position (Him trying to recover/ pinned close to the edge) but you rolled away or DACUS away. you def should camp, but dont reset if you are in a vantage position.
Also I feel like you need to mix up your recovery better, seems that you always use your 2nd jump early. Also too much bair. Read how your opponent is trying to attack you while your recovering and adjust accordingly.
for the Luigi matchup, never spotdodge when he's near, that is asking for an early death to an up-b/fsmash. I'd also like to see some more nades and better use of nades too, practice some nade camping. Also too much jumping, jump aerieals only if you read an aerial approach, if they are approaching on the ground and you jump that is only asking to be punished.

But your Snake def isn't bad, work on these things and you will be really good in no time. ^.^
 

Yumewomiteru

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Friendlies of me vs. my friend's ZSS from Sunday. It's kinda hard to see but I think they were decent matches. I don't totally understand this MU though so any help is appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlDVD65zfhw
That ZSS doesn't understand the matchup either, he needs to be more aggressive and do a better job at keeping you in the air. Its alot easier for us to critique you if you send in a vid of you getting ***** =D.

But from what I saw, first game you dash attack/dacus wayyy too much, it was getting to a point where i can see the pattern. You have some rolling tendencies but theyre not that bad. Also when you do dthrow techchase he get ups alot. You should def learn to expect that and punish him with a regrab or utilt if hes at killing percentage. You are pretty good with mixing up your recovery/landing options, incorporating some fast falling and aerials would made it even better.

The thing that stood out the most for me is your lack of grenade game. It seems that you only use nades to camp, and even that seems a bit forced/unrefined. Nades and other explosives also helps your CQC tremendously. When you fight you just attack without any nades to protect you. Def work on incorporating your grenade into your CQC game. Do some nade stance approaches, aerials with nades, nades to usmash, tossing a nade at them and then approach, etc. Just having a grenade nearby helps alot.
 

Underload

Lazy
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebjoy8hivf8

me. after one month without playing but no johns :D . my techasing in that match was fail. anyway I would like it to be criticized.
Not too much to critique here.

1. Get more consistent with techchasing. What I do (and what I consider to be one of the most efficient ways to techchase) is that I'll turn around right after getting a dthrow off, and shield for a moment. You cover the get-up options and backwards roll this way. If they roll forward, then drop shield, dash forward, and boost grab. It'll work against most of the cast, including Tink.

2. Stop rolling when you're anywhere near your opponent. EVERRRRR. Not much to explain here. If you're bad with your rolling, you're just opening yourself up for punishment that you don't need.

3. Good **** with the PSing, but watch for the followup. Good Tinks will actually take advantage of your good PSing if you immediately drop shield afterward.

4. Jab1 -> different ****, like dash attack. It's good with floaty characters like Tink.

That's all I got. Not bad, you know what you're doing, I don't need to hold your hand.

i get ***** here, so this is good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5l1u1SL2ao&feature=channel
main problem i see is lots of bad DI + hitting myself with grenade
1. Stop ****ing spotdodging. I'd rather you roll away from everything instead of spotdodging everything. You did so much of it, it would be really be obvious to a decent MK.

2. Stop airdodging into the stage. Nothing to explain, just stop doing it. Go for the edge instead. Oh, and if you HAVE to cover yourself while falling into the stage, don't spotdodge after.

3. Have a really campy mindset. You did some good stuff with dthrows and you got some lucky approaches, but most of the time you get punished for being a bit aggressive. You also need moar mortars. They're good against MK. Use utilt as an anti-air move, in combination with mortars and short-tossed nades. Good against dair camping MKs.

That's all I got.
 

Limeee

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Edmonton, Alberta
k thanks, getting grabbed by MK is scary, which is why i spotdodge so much

and i got my revenge against him at the next tourney :)
 

[FBC] ESAM

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g2g4gold

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Went ahead and watched the first, last, and 2-3 other matches against you (ESAM), and here's what I noticed!

Some of the Pikachu matches are tough, I'd say a good 100%+ in some of the matches was from plucking his own grenades and them hitting both of you. I might be wrong on this too, but if I look at all the moves that hit from the final match (until the end of your first stock, coincidentally the start of his third) it was pure grenades except for one f-tilt near the beginning, an up-tilt that didn't kill, and the forward throw that finally did the job. That's over two lives of his, and the third ends in an unfortunate quit after a d-throw chain.

He has more options than he thinks, is all, he's just got to explore a little more variety. I noticed if he's camping you off the edge or just if he has time to in general, he'll pluck both grenades and get rid of them immediately. It might not be a bad idea to keep one in his hand even, Snake can still move forward or backward, and more importantly, he can cook them. Grenades, to me, are every bit as good for stage control as they are for damage, and if he can predict a double quick attack left (with the right covered by grenades, C4, whatever) he could potentially change the flow of the match. I was praying hard for the best sometimes, but he just couldn't keep the pressure on with those grenades.

I also saw only one DACUS in the four games against Pikachu I watched, minus one that was interrupted before the mortar came out. Pikachu's quick and spends a lot of time in the air, it's not a bad option, increases Snake's mobility and throws out a protective missile at the same time. It's situational, sure, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea.

C4 usage wasn't too good, in the fourth match against you, he plants one right away in the center and it blows up on him (timer runs out) at 0:29. He potentially had a few chances to detonate it, and he definitely shouldn't have let it blow up on his own. Also, I'd probably try to plant it on the platform on the left side (this one's on Frigate Orpheon) or the one on the right, it helps fence out part of the stage and keep the opponent on their toes, and cut off even a little bit of Pikachu's mobility in that quadrant. Watch 1:04-1:10 or so, he's just dropping and detonating.

Tech chasing, in every case I ever saw, was either a jab or an up-tilt after the initial down-throw, if not waiting in shield for a nearby grenade to blow up. If the opponent buffers a tech roll to the left or the right, nothing happened. If he's a quick thinker, after the down throw, he can shield and if the opponent doesn't roll away from him he can either shield through the getup attack and regrab/f-tilt or f-tilt behind him, that's an easy 30%, he can take advantage of those down throws a lot more.

This one's important, I think, because it's simple and he can change it immediately for great results. When recovering with his Up-B, he comes in low straight back to the stage, and he's defenseless, it was free damage every single time. The best instance of this is in the fourth video against you, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpfBB-il50g , around 1:08-1:25. If you watch from 1 minute on, he Up-B's low and hard horizontal into the stage, where he gets forward smashed, b-throwed, n-aired, and thundered in quick succession. That's a ton of damage. Use the C4, whatever you have to do, if you're in doubt Snake should come in high. I've seen him wavebounce the grenades, so he'll do much, much better avoiding you, he loses 60% that way before being set up for a lethal up-smash.

He's definitely not a bad player, some very nice matches out there, went head-to-head with some great FL players. Hope some of that helps, though!

Edit: I went ahead and watched a couple vs. Seibrik, and those went a lot better! haha seriously, he's a good Snake!
 

[FBC] ESAM

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The reason he goes low when recovering against me is because I have the magic of thunder. What is worse: 60% or a death?
 

MVD

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The reason he goes low when recovering against me is because I have the magic of thunder. What is worse: 60% or a death?
Yeah! Thunder is too good!! I know how to get around Pikachu the only issue is getting grabbed, I did a great job avoiding that in the first set I played against him but in losers finals well he kinda got around me trying to avoid it. I know I just need to play more but I never do :( only at tournaments, if u watch my vids against seibrik from a month ago to last weekend, you see a big change
 

Limeee

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i couldn't bare to watch it all

get vids against a better player offline

as far as i can see

- don't ftilt so much, offline someone would shield and punish
- camp more, you hardly used grenades, all you did was run up and shield and then ftilt
- don't dacus predictably, you kept getting hit out of it

EDIT and mvd da bess, only problem i saw was jumping into seibreks shield alot
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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i couldn't bare to watch it all

get vids against a better player offline

as far as i can see

- don't ftilt so much, offline someone would shield and punish
- camp more, you hardly used grenades, all you did was run up and shield and then ftilt
- don't dacus predictably, you kept getting hit out of it
I don't think that's possible since I barely go to offline events. I be trying to camp and stuff yet against a character like ROB I can't really do it to well. With MK he just spaces everything and I can barely even counter nade. So how do I adjust to this to be able to camp more effectively against these characters ? With that in mind that's the reason why I ftilt more since I can't effectively camp these character I thought ftilt would be my best bet. What are some good Oos options for snake? I was under the impression that ftilt OOs was good..
 

Calzorz

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Morningstar

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Right after every hit you that popped you into the air you'd airdodge. I've had problems with that in the past too. Try switching up the way you land with b-reversal nades, fast falls, and certain aerials. Don't try to beat ZSS in the air when you're above her with anything except bair and MAYBE uair in some cases, but you don't always have to attack when you're landing. Her aerial game > yours.

Don't uptilt her when she has like 60 percent. Ftilt her twice THEN uptilt. :D lol

Your rolls are predictable, and you often roll twice at a time. STOP THAT. Also work on cooking nades.

I liked the way you baited with Nikita into an uptilt in the 2nd match. Reminds me of me. Just know Nikita almost always is not a good option. Leaves you too open, and has a lot of lag, especially vs. fast characters like ZSS. That's about it for now
 

Limeee

Smash Champion
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDMizJXXdHQ

Could you tell me what I need to improve on? ^_^
1st stock

- i noticed you getting ***** alot. the reason for that, is your giving him too much space. work on your grenade usage, just try to get grenades on the stage and that will restrict his space

- just throw the suit pieces off honestly, ZSS can use them alot better than you can

2nd stock

- woah dude, chill out on the rolls, to subsitute, just walk away, or stay in shield, or at least shield drop a grenade while you roll

- you have the same habit as me. your scared, so you hide in shield alot, even when its not necessary

-when you were being juggled by uptilt, you airdodged early, and didn't DI. you should be trying to always DI, and bairing or jumping out is usually a better option

- you did a random nikita, and it worked lol. not sure what to say about that, just don't make it a habit

- dair isn't good for anti juggling, lol

- at 2:26 you did another random nikita, lol. i figure its a button slip, but if not, DON'T DO THAT >:(

3rd stock

-you let him throw the grenade back, if he's near one of your grenades, always be prepared to grenade strip, or at least insta throw back

- you spotdodged out of fear, don't do that. the only time in this match up you should spot dodge, is to avoid grabs upon reaction. ZSS's grab is really bad LOL


your alright though. TL;DR: stop hiding in shield, spot dodging for no reason, nikitating, and air dodging

especially against ZSS, she will punish airdodges bad, your better off to bair or pull out a grenade or something

EDIT: lol i got ninjad
 

Willz

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Hey guys I'm Willz and I would like you to critique my friends Snake please. He's only been playing for about 6months now (he's been playing Snake for about a month or 2) and I think he's progressed quite well since he started.

Anyway can you critique these 2 vids, any advice will be appreciated by both of us.

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KxcNZeDfU&feature=channel
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrsFOxnsXAM&feature=channel

Cheers guys =]

p.s I don't play Marth and I know it's not too great so don't bother critiquing me xD
 

Ralph Cecil

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Well one thing about this video is that i've stopped rolling, & air dodging as much now. I just wanted to see what else I needed to work on so thanks. ^_^
 

Willz

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Hey guys I'm Willz and I would like you to critique my friends Snake please. He's only been playing for about 6months now (he's been playing Snake for about a month or 2) and I think he's progressed quite well since he started.

Anyway can you critique these 2 vids, any advice will be appreciated by both of us.

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KxcNZeDfU&feature=channel
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrsFOxnsXAM&feature=channel

Cheers guys =]

p.s I don't play Marth and I know it's not too great so don't bother critiquing me xD
Come on guys critique please <_>
 

Morningstar

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I had some matches in with KPrime's Pikachu (he pattened the buffer cg on Snake if I'm not mistaken >_<) and his D3. He's 2nd in San Antonio, and I always lose or almost lose to him in tourney. I've beaten Espy more times than Prime. Help please? :)

vs. Pikachu:
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM-lrqrlsXY&feature=related (he wins)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l__QHqkIiw4 (he wins)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUTJgwMfZlQ (he wins)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OgZcp6W3G4 (I win)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUKWFylgXpU (he wins... this one's not fair :()
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNUnp36601w (he wins)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-xJh08CUgY (he wins)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRPVrzzPhRA&feature=related (he wins)

vs. D3:
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbpbn-LZqIU (I win)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbYSv_e_jf4 (HARD lose)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziRQh869nJM (I win)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IA-hrg_ivs (I win)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koVB6Xy6yNs (MM I lose)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfhmJTDfI5w (MM I lose)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_iTKOuVrcc (MM I lose)
 
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