ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Where do ******** comments like these come from?
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The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
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Thought I might restate my opinion >.>
We have Dedede banned stages.
Why not have Metaknight Unbanned stages?
Suddenly Bridge of Eldin and Shadow Moses could be unbanned.
(Note *could*. This is a viewpoint I'm still quite neutral on).
Master Knight DH
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2008
- Messages
- 460
THANK YOU! I have been getting some flak over having an honor code. It's stupid. Seriously, some things should be nerfed a bit to start with. This includes stuff my mains have. (Olimar I think should be revamped by having the Pikmin stages actually do something so that he'd be a character who would reward survival talent, but if he, Diddy, and even Ness would be on the weaker than Mario half of the PD concept I'll be quite fine with that.)
You haven't seen my Priority Decay idea, huh? Under the PD idea, the tornado would have a very high PD rate. The tornado's INITIAL priority would crash and burn. Spamming it would no longer be viable because Meta Knight would open himself up to harassment.guys guys how about this. limit to an amount of tornados a match
i nvr use tornado anyway
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,479
Probably from the truth. Sonic players live a fantasized existence.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Read ShadowLinks sig. We KNOW we suck. But hey, at least we aren't Young Link. =P
The Sonic players that are still left probably realize that you can WIN with disadvantages. You have to be SMART though. We have disadvantages to nearly EVERYONE. What's another brick in the wall?
Nanaki
Smash Lord
I think it's a good idea in principle, but I don't see Bridge of Eldin being that much of a counterpick. It might help your chances a tiny bit, but it doesn't exactly bring out a MK weakness as much as Shadow Moses.
With Shadow Moses, you mostly eliminate side kills and completely eliminate gimps. With BoE, gimps are mostly elminated (except when King Bulbin goes and asplodes the middle), but side kills are still prevalent, and very easy.
I like the idea for Shadow Moses, but I have this horrible gut feeling that it might turn into Pipes with MK's figuring out ways to create advantages for themselves there.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,479
Cute. Well, when I see a Young Link, I'll let you know.
Two problems:
1. In advanced slobs counterpicks, stages are picked before characters.
2. It's not that these stages don't favor MK, it's that they could easily heavily favor another character like DDD on the Bridge. Punishing MKs by forcing them to essentially auto-lose one game in a BO3 and two games in a BO5 from the DDD walk-off/wall infinite grab is hardly an elegant solution.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
O_O
hey I have a question, do you also search for your name on smashboards sometimes?
And you lost some of my respect.
Around march through july I used to go to each character board and ask about the Sonic vs _____ matchup.
The very first thing I would hear is Sonic cannot approach.
For example the ZSS boards.
"Sonic can't do anything. her stun gun, Dsmash, and side B stop him. he has no way to approach, he cannot kill."
mind you it wasn't just one or two people.
It was roughly four people none of which even addressed my argument or even bothered to attempt to refute it.
The criticism only ceased once DeliciousCake appeared and criticized the other ZSS mainers for making it look like it was easy and many of the points made also agreed with much of what i stated.
Does this mean all ZSS mainers live in a fantasy?
Or that I should ignore the ZSS mains whoa ctually know what they are talking about?
No
So why are the Sonic mains an exception?
Just like the ZSS, MK, Snake boards have idiots so do the Sonic boards.
But since when did we ever start judging based on the idiots and judge based on those whose arguments are actually logical?
Normally I wouldn't rant frankly I stopped the whole thing awhile ago.
However,
I wouldn't expect such statements like that coming from an SBR member.
Nanaki
Smash Lord
*Walks away, whistling to himself*...Cute. Well, when I see a Young Link, I'll let you know.
But seriously, <-------- not a Young Link main, ever. Just have it up as a joke since I still haven't picked a singular main.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
It was just me jokin' around cause he mained YL in Melee.
Nanaki
Smash Lord
Ooohh, I get it now. Thanks.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
so whats the anti ban argument at the moment?
Meta Knight can still be beaten.
Nanaki
Smash Lord
He can still be beaten, and once he's banned, he won't be unbanned (supposedly).
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
If he 90-10 everyone he could still be beaten once out of every 10 times I don't see how that holds up especially since the argument towards banning him is that the best chance of beating him is the mirror match not that its the only one.
ADHD
Smash Hero
^^ Yeah, but they don't have massive priority
It's because 90:10 to everyone is what the banned characters from other games go.
But that doesn't take into account that Brawl has a drastically different atmosphere than other games, and a character being as out of balance as MK is may in fact qualify for broken in Brawl when it wouldn't in the other games. Which is a large part of the debate, really.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Even if he were banned research on the game wouldn't stop. There's still a chance he'd be reinstated.
In time, everyone will be MK, or face disadvantage.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Thet problem is that once something is banned, it is often more difficult to have it un-banned.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
I don't think we should be looking at other games since pokemon would fall under that category.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Well the rules for banning concerning that of pokemon are relatively the same.
It is more accurate to compare to other fighting games since fighting is a part of smash's genre.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Oh definitely. But it's hard for the people trying to get him BANNED too. That's why all the debate EXISTS.
I know you know all that. I'm just sayin'.
I kinda think its a bit hard to unban something that has been banned.
Items and stages are Brawl examples, and no one has looked at the banned stages much(Mario Kart, Bridge of Eldin, Shadow Moses), and the item play has just started looking at the items again.
On the other hand, I'd be really great if SMI and BoE's DDD advantage canceled out MK gimp advantage. And of course, Olimar would benefit the most from this.
But we might as well be waiting for some miracle AT to balance MK.
Oh wait...
Items and stages are Brawl examples, and no one has looked at the banned stages much(Mario Kart, Bridge of Eldin, Shadow Moses), and the item play has just started looking at the items again.
On the other hand, I'd be really great if SMI and BoE's DDD advantage canceled out MK gimp advantage. And of course, Olimar would benefit the most from this.
But we might as well be waiting for some miracle AT to balance MK.
Oh wait...
So what of the 'Dedede rule' in advanced slobs counterpicks?
When the stage is selected by the loser, what happens if the opposing player says 'Oh, well I want to use Dedede'?
This raises a problem.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Not really.
For example as of now Mk does seem ban worthy.
If we banned him now the metagame would mature withut him.
At which point why should we unban him?
The game is fine, its diverse, nothing is being overcentralized and we would only look back at MK's worst points.
So its often more difficult, hence why Roe v. Wade is so important to abortion supporters.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
I said hard not hardER. It'd be way hardER to get him unbanned.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
oh my mistake I misunderstood what you meant.
Sorry.
Sorry.
A good part of the reason Meta Knight is so hard to get a ban on is because it would be so hard to unban him later. When an action is pretty much all-or-nothing, people become wary.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Words are not my forte.
I agree, I was just answering the question. It's not my belief that we should say MK must be equal to Akuma in effectiveness or never be banned.
The banned stages aren't looked at because the majority of them were banned for abuse from walkoff chaingrabs (Or infinites against walls) and nothing has changed that would impact that -- so why look at them again? This wouldn't be true in relation to Meta Knight if new ATs were found for characters.
Technically, if a certain character started to dominate the metagame and took most kills offstage in gimps, but was lightweight and also didn't star KO that often, then it might be useful to look back at Shadow Moses Island.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
the reason it is accurate is because it is a fighting game.
Much of the rules governing what to ban or not to ban is very general and not specific to one genre or another.
Granted some tihngs are different but in general they are the same.
So its always okay to compare MK to Dark armed dragon or Akuma, or Old sagat, or Storm, or Yun.
Not those specifically but the degree.
DDD will not be capable of CGing someone to death on Eldin's bridge.
You can avoid being grabbed its hard but it can be done).
the issue is that it promites camping and reduces things to only one strategy.
So if we have two walls vs one, everyone will try to infinite the other.
it breaks the game to, whoever gets backed into a wall first.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
DDD can't chainthrow MK.
@Shadowlink- Dark Armed Dragon isn't banned.
Say what? DDD's chaingrab is not hard, nor is it hard for DDD (with one of the largest grab ranges in the game) to land a grab.
But yeah, they will not be unbanning stages to fight MK. And besides, MK doesn't have any bad stages anyway.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
is it really THAT hard to unban him?
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
It will be. BLS-EOTB and CED=EOTE were. Tomato/soul control will break the hell out of it.
Yeah. Why BOTHER unbanning him if everyone cept MK mains are happy?
Yeah. Why BOTHER unbanning him if everyone cept MK mains are happy?
Consider how many people are adamant about NO items being on, even benign ones like food, and tell me that it won't be hard to unban something once banned.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Ankoku..... your sig makes me sad. <3 Affinity.
Although Ravager was too much....
Although Ravager was too much....
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
well... you know, it's a different situation entirely. not that the point doesn't hold some water, but we'd unban MK if convincing evidence arose that he would no longer be dominant, like a major shift caused by a huge AT or something.
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