The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[brinboy789]

kupo, we've been through the inui example already and concluded that it proves nothing but the fact, that MK is easy to learn...

i know i said i wouldnt post any more, but srsly, how can you MK is easy to learn when snake exists. and even if he is easy, so what?

I think one of the best arguments for the ban is that fact that Inui's 2 week old meta destroyed some excellent players when he couldnt with his normal main. Idk where I feel about the topic, if anything, a soft ban trial period? If not, there are other TOs that have already not allowed MK so we can see how things work out there.

im not sure if this is the same thread, but i think that was a mistake, people thought that it was affinity, but it was actually infinity, who isnt really big on the MK boards. unless im thought you were talking about something else...

 

[kupo15]

my bad...

EDIT: Here is a question...do you think anyone can beat m2k when both players are playing at there best? (the opponent cannot be MK)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

choknater, your badass. I wanna have babies with you!

 

[NeoCrono]

my bad...

EDIT: Here is a question...do you think anyone can beat m2k when both players are playing at there best? (the opponent cannot be MK)

No, his MK I think is unbeatable at the moment. Not saying that no one can beat him (props to anyone who has beaten him, and props to m2k for being awesome lol)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

kupo, Ninja Link and Reflex already answered your question

@brinboy

sorry but MK is clearly easier to learn than Snake...not as easy as GnW though

 

[choknater]

my bad...

EDIT: Here is a question...do you think anyone can beat m2k when both players are playing at there best? (the opponent cannot be MK)

Not at the moment, no. Why? Not because he is using MK, but because he is currently the BEST PLAYER.

Don't be a fool.

I don't even know people can beat Mew2King's Dedede.

choknater, your badass. I wanna have babies with you!

My legs are spread wide open... Ta-kun...
Smoke cigarettes with me...

Spoiler

10mamimis

 

[kupo15]

Im no fool, I know about m2k and all but I had to ask to hear it from your mouth. Here is why I asked.

Since you said no one can beat him now, it would appear that m2k plays at the highest level which are the requirements what that have been stated in the OP for banning. I am not saying ban MK. I am on the fence.

EDIT: Looking back he said highest level of the Metagame so nevermind....:\

 

[Master Raven]

I will always love Haruko.

 

[Zelc]

Maybe this discussion could get a bit further if people clarified what they think bans should do. Should bans only be used to remove characters that are so good they can't lose? Should they be used so more characters become viable options (i.e. not worse than another character choice in every situation)? How many viable characters is enough or too few (one may be easier to define than the other)? Should bans be used to make games more fun? What is more fun? Or maybe the purpose of bans should be something different.

It should be easier to agree on what the ultimate goal for banning should be, and then decide whether MK fits that criteria.

On the time argument, it could very well be that we don't have enough information to determine if MK fits whatever ban criteria is used. It's important to keep in mind that there are costs of waiting: people leaving the game is probably the biggest one. Of course, there is a huge cost to banning MK if he doesn't actually warrant it. I don't know what a reasonable timetable would be, but it's important to keep in mind that it's bad to ban MK too soon or too late.

 

[MBlaze]

Yeah he's going to be banned soon.

 

[Overswarm]

Especially when it's a player like Inui who is very skilled at this game.

Now you're just making stuff up.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

My legs are spread wide open... Ta-kun...
Smoke cigarettes with me...

Spoiler

10mamimis

...tasty...

 

[Dojo]

Now you're just making stuff up.

Considering he's like top 5 in NJ, I'd have to say he's rather skilled no?

 

[Overswarm]

Considering he's like top 5 in NJ, I'd have to say he's rather skilled no?

*facepalm*

 

[Steeler]

m2k's mk is beatable, but it's very hard to do because he's so efficient off stage and in the air. it's possible.

edeet azen beat his mk with lucario at hobo 11, for example.

 

[Dojo]

Whatever. You're too stubborn to see any other point of view minus your own, so I'm done debating a pointless argument against someone like you in a thread that has accomplished nothing but flaming and spamming.

 

[brinboy789]

Whatever. You're too stubborn to see any other point of view minus your own, so I'm done debating a pointless argument against someone like you in a thread that has accomplished nothing but flaming and spamming.

are you guys talking about this thread :
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198266
???
if your not, then ignore this post
if you are, then it was a mistake. its infinity that got defeated, a smasher that i've never heard of, not affinity

edit:

*facepalm*

how isnt being top 5 in NJ not skilled?

 

[Dojo]

Something entirely different. Doesn't matter tbh.
As much as he want's it, he won't get him banned anytime soon.

 

[Lord Exor]

Actually, no, Meta Knight doesn't. It's just that the rest of the cast has less going for them than most of the Melee cast did.

You just proved my point.

As a standalone character, MK has more to use in his arsenal against the rest of the Brawl cast than Melee Sheik had. Because of the disparity between the Melee engine and Brawl, MK doesn't combo in quite the same way Melee Sheik can. That doesn't mean anything--you should be taking each character and basing their merits off of what they're capable of with respect to what their own games permit. In that sense, MK has more going for him than Melee Sheik.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Dojo, you're talking about OS?

 

[Ryan-K]

how isnt being top 5 in NJ not skilled?

i guess the same way literally tornadoing whole stocks for damage then dsmash spamming wins you tournaments

 

[brinboy789]

i guess the same way literally tornadoing whole stocks for damage then dsmash spamming wins you tournaments

cant u do the same thing with snake. ftilt = damage + utilt = killer? i gets predictable. and besides, mach tornado is somewhat punishable

 

[Turbo Ether]

how isnt being top 5 in NJ not skilled?

Inui is probably like top 5 in NY/NJ right now, since switching to MK. He has a lot of wins and high placings in the last few weeks and today, beating very good players.

 

[Ryan-K]

cant u do the same thing with snake. ftilt = damage + utilt = killer? i gets predictable. and besides, mach tornado is somewhat punishable

you can powershield tilts or grab them and then falco and ddd **** him relentlessly anyway and pika can do pretty mean **** to him too. just because something is predictable doesn't mean it's punishable. explain how you can punish ddd chaingrabbing you. explain how you can punish falco laser dthrow spiking you. you know they're gonna do it, but why are they so good? tornado is predictable but almost unstoppable. even totally disjointed **** like marth fair does nothing on contact.

LOL tornado being punishable

you're a funny one you.

weren't you at castle golf LOL

 

[brinboy789]

you can powershield tilts or grab them and then falco and ddd **** him relentlessly anyway and pika can do pretty mean **** to him too.

LOL tornado being punishable

you're a funny one you.

lol im not saying that he should be banned, im just saying that your theory works for him too. and yes the tornado is punishable. i was facing an online MK yesterday, and he spammed tornado. i won (joke match but still), and i was falcon. i predicted his tornado since he spammed it, and was able to get some fsmashes and dsmashs in because of the aerial vulnerability after the tornado. and you can stomp the top of the tornado with dair ^^.

 

[Ryan-K]

then the mk you must have been facing must have really sucked because cf cant do **** to mk. you dont even need to tornado to beat him.

yeah cuz wifi totally proves things.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Inui is probably like top 5 in NY/NJ right now, since switching to MK. He has a lot of wins and high placings in the last few weeks and today, beating very good players.

Well that make sense now doesn't it?

 

[brinboy789]

weren't you at castle golf LOL

whoa ryan k? I LOST TO YOU AT THAT TOURNEY D*MN YOU lol jk i think we had a nice match...you used G&W right? did you win? i left when i lost

 

[Ryan-K]

that tourney was the first time i ever used gaw and i got top 3. go figure.

anyway mk is gay, if hes banned or not w/e, but anecdotal evidence over wifi is just really stupid like honestly.

 

[brinboy789]

that tourney was the first time i ever used gaw and i got top 3. go figure.

anyway mk is gay, if hes banned or not w/e, but anecdotal evidence over wifi is just really stupid like honestly.

it wasnt evidence...lol didnt i even say it was a joke match? i picked MK right after and spammed tornado like there was no tomorrow

 

[toon_marth]

Meta-Knight makes little children cry.

 

[Master Knight DH]

I tried self-imposed B banning with Meta Knight last night and big surprise, it doesn't do diddly squat to tone him down. All it does is get rid of the ever annoying tornado option. He can still dash grab your butt and throw in a few aerials, and just plain chase you.

 

[BentoBox]

off-stage up-b gimps say hi

 

[popsofctown]

Inui is probably like top 5 in NY/NJ right now, since switching to MK. He has a lot of wins and high placings in the last few weeks and today, beating very good players.

If this Inui is only top 5 after switching to MK, then Dojo calling him "quite skilled" in defense of MK is textbook circular logic.

Inui switched to MK and became top 5. Clearly he had the skill to do so before he switched to MK. Why? Look he's in top 5.

 

[brinboy789]

If this Inui is only top 5 after switching to MK, then Dojo calling him "quite skilled" in defense of MK is textbook circular logic.

Inui switched to MK and became top 5. Clearly he had the skill to do so before he switched to MK. Why? Look he's in top 5.

wait who did inui switch from? wasnt he a MK main from the beginning?

 

[BentoBox]

Pit I believe.

@Dojo, OS is right. Inui only got to where he is because of MK and he himself stated that he only picked up MK recently to prove a point; you know there's something wrong when skill is partially discredited by the usage of a specific characters (he played high tiers, mind you). Inui is fighting to get mk banned.

 

[SmashChu]

Let me start by saying that I'm what you may call a "casual***" but I know a little about Smash tourneys so here I go.

First and foremost, I don't buy into the tier stuff a lot. I can't see why Meta-Knight is so broken and why Falcon is so suck. Meta-Knight seems more balanced to me then many other people say. He's probably top tier either way for the same reason Fox and Sheik were top characters: he's a 1-on-1 character in a multiplayer fighting game. He is light and has very few killers. Even his best ones force you to go chase your foe, and as for priority, nothing goes though a shield. You'd think his counters would be the big characters who out live him and kill him to easily: DK, Snake, Bowser, and Ganondorf. Not to mention DK could easily finish him with a back throw. Of course, this is just me.

Now, one thing to remedy this is get rid of the damage at the end of the time limit rule. This is what really makes Meta-knight too strong. Let sudden death determine the winner. I've seen this too much. meta-Knight gets killed and it's 1-on-1. The opponent knows what he's doing and could defiantly pull out a win. What does Meta-Knight do? Sits at the edge and camps until time runs out. And guess what, he wins. There is much you can do you you don't have multiple jumps, and even Dedede can get screwed becuase of his falling speed. If Meta-Knight was forced to fight, then the fight would ba lot fairer.

The other solution is to make a 4vs league. The reason the game is so "imbalanced" is becuase the game is designed with 4vs in mind. Meta-Knight is balanced in 4vs with items and on many stages. While he can dominate, his light size and weak attacks make him easily dominated. This is how the game is balanced. I don't think many of you would like it, but it may help to create a more balanced metagame.

Would it be logical if MK isn't banned but instead is limited to either being allowed for use in only one match of a set or perhaps is only allowed as a counter-pick choice so that while he is allowed nobody is able to just use him.

This isn't a bad idea.

 

[S.B.Soldier]

ive broken a tornado once but it was glitchy.. i think i was using marth... it was wicked weird. im still trying to replicate it to this day...

 

[BentoBox]

@Chu: Lol, coincidentally, I lost a set to a MK player at my last tourney because the timer ran out~ Guess I was playing too defensively lol. He also was using the infinite cape trick... and as I did not feel like being a *****, I held my mouth shut :l

[not trying to make a point, just sharing an exp of mine lol]

 

[Grunt]

Meta-Knight makes little children cry.

every time MK smiles, a puppy dies.