The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[ice-]

nair goes through? imma have to test that...shuttle loop off the edge is instant death for MK. and if snake is RECOVERYING, so you cant grab him, high level snakes shouldnt use cypher close to the edge. and if by some miracle you grab him, he still has the C4. and what do you mean its just setting up to get hit by MK more. HES BLOWING HIMSELF UP TO SURVIVE. C4 = VERTICLE KNOCKBACK. HES SENT FLYING. AKA unless for some reason MK is extremely high above him, your logic fails

You up b then the hit the top of the cypher so you get your up b back

 

[da K.I.D.]

you have to hit him with any one hit that does more than 7 damage

EDIT thank you ice, this kid is dumb

 

[Mmac]

If Yoshi didn't have such a pathetic shield, he wouldn't be a low tier character.

He's got one of the best Defencive Grabs in the game to completely overshadow it. Even if his Shield Game Sucks, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a good defencive game.

you have to hit him with any one hit that does more than 7 damage

EDIT thank you ice, this kid is dumb

It's 7% or more... I think

 

[da K.I.D.]

he still has the C4. and what do you mean its just setting up to get hit by MK more. HES BLOWING HIMSELF UP TO SURVIVE. C4 = VERTICLE KNOCKBACK. HES SENT FLYING.

he blows him self up, and puts him self in hitstun over the edge, at which point he is MKs play thing once again

EDIT mmac is right, i thought i said that, but i worded it wrong

 

[Black_Heretic]

snakes recovery has heavy armor frames...none of MK's aerials go through it, and even if hey did, theres still the c4 recovery.

snakes utilt kills MK @ freakin 91%...

I believe his heavy armor can only take like...7% damage or some small number in that range

Dair (does 9 IIRC) knocks him out of it
nair (12ish? I believe) knocks him out of it

using a C4 gives around 15 damage to him which can help MK overall

a perfectly played MK beats a perfectly played Snake

again, this is all in my own opinion

 

[adumbrodeus]

seriously, are you saying that every "reasonable" MK will never make a mistake? is this thing works, then wario will have advantage. 115% is lethal for MK

and oh please good space with falcon = dead MK. were talking about top level of play here, where all spacing is amazing, from both ends

Not of that magnitude. Have often do you see ICs grabbing MK?

you know what, i've checked every dk and mk matchup thread, and every thread with matchup discussion on both character boards and tactical boards, every thing says the matchup is 5-5 neutral, don't give me that 55-45 isn't neutral crap, they switch it from 5-5 to 55-45 so they can put on a feeling of superiority, either its 6-4 or greater, or its neutral, no in-betweens, metaknight has quite a few neutrals

also, mk can throw dk off if the dk is playing it wrong, dk can throw him out of his spacing with a simple upb or punch* (which is safe if he doesn't powershield, everything is unsafe on powershield)

*this is assuming the mk is spacing and not in dk's face, if mk is in dks face punch is not safe, but mk becomes upb bait that close

its even, with the new AT its possibly in dk's favor, i'll try to get a few games with dsf at the next big tournament

Up-B is punishable, Donkey punish has too much start-up, and can be reliably power-shileded/ spot-dodged.

 

[brinboy789]

You up b then the hit the top of the cypher so you get your up b back

oh...well that is kind of risky, because what if it doesnt hit?

you have to hit him with any one hit that does more than 7 damage

EDIT thank you ice, this kid is dumb

wow. you are seriously testing my patience. instead of proving me wrong, you insult me. now tell me, MK can gimp snake pretty well, right? MK is far superior in aerial game. so why is he neutral? because snakes ground game completely diminishes MK's. for one, utilt kills @ 91. ftilt frest does 21%, which is alot for MK. mortar slide = kills most of MK's approach tactics. the only thing that MK has better on the ground is his dsmash.

He's got one of the best Defencive Grabs in the game to completely overshadow it. Even if his Shield Game Sucks, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a good defencive game.



It's 7% or more... I think

i can definitely see yoshi rising on the tier list. also wario. i can see rob goin down tho

 

[brinboy789]

Not of that magnitude. Have often do you see ICs grabbing MK?



Up-B is punishable, Donkey punish has too much start-up, and can be reliably power-shileded/ spot-dodged.

not often. but then again, how often do you see MK grabbed?

and for DK, yea hes slow, but if it actually hits, MK is screwed. DK's fsmash has ridiculous knockback for its speed. HRCers actually use fsmash instead of the bat

 

[GofG]

and for ganon, yea hes slow, but if it actually hits, MK is screwed. Ganon's neutral b has ridiculous knockback for its speed. HRCers actually use warlock punch instead of the bat.

and for jigglypuff, yea shes fast, but if it actually hits, MK is screwed. Jiggly's rest has ridiculous knockback for its speed. HRCers in melee actually used rest instead of the bat.

and for bowser, yeah hes slow, but if it actually hits, MK is screwed. Bowser's smashes have ridiculous knockback for their speed. HRCers actually use them instead of the bat.

imo ganon, jigglypuff, and bowser are MK neutrals.

 

[Zankoku]

Melee Jiggs had a Rest that had diagonal knockback rather than completely vertical lol

 

[GofG]

I know. I was making fun of his post.

Why don't you respond to me on AIM?

 

[brinboy789]

and for ganon, yea hes slow, but if it actually hits, MK is screwed. Ganon's neutral b has ridiculous knockback for its speed. HRCers actually use warlock punch instead of the bat.

and for jigglypuff, yea shes fast, but if it actually hits, MK is screwed. Jiggly's rest has ridiculous knockback for its speed. HRCers in melee actually used rest instead of the bat.

and for bowser, yeah hes slow, but if it actually hits, MK is screwed. Bowser's smashes have ridiculous knockback for their speed. HRCers actually use them instead of the bat.

imo ganon, jigglypuff, and bowser are MK neutrals.

you sir...fail. DK is mediocre speed. he has ridiculous knockback on almost all of his moves. he would probably have advantage over MK if not for the tornado.
ganon sux. no point explaining
jiggs sux.
bowser is just TOO slow. HRCers use bat instead of FCFS cause fsmash got nerfed

10fails

 

[brinboy789]

I know. I was making fun of his post.

Why don't you respond to me on AIM?

i fear for the future sometimes

 

[GofG]

At 999%, Marth's Fsmash Outknockbacks The Bat

Marth's Fsmash Beats Metaknight!

Why the hell does HRC even matter?

Why do you speak as if you have authority? What was the last tourney you entered? When was the last time you roomed with Chillin and Chudat when they came down to go to a NC tourney?

 

[GofG]

you sir...fail. DK is mediocre speed. he has ridiculous knockback on almost all of his moves. he would probably have advantage over MK if not for the tornado.
ganon sux. no point explaining
jiggs sux.
bowser is just TOO slow. HRCers use bat instead of FCFS cause fsmash got nerfed

10fails

i fear for the future sometimes.

 

[brinboy789]

At 999%, Marth's Fsmash Outknockbacks The Bat

Marth's Fsmash Beats Metaknight!

Why the hell does HRC even matter?

Why do you speak as if you have authority? What was the last tourney you entered? When was the last time you roomed with Chillin and Chudat when they came down to go to a NC tourney?

1. because HRC finishing moves are based on thier knockback. and DK's fsmash has amazing knockback
2. i dont speak as if i have authority. i am just argueing my point.
3. 2 weeks ago
3. i've never. have most people? and if you have, i could care less. this is an arguement, not a bragging contest of whos roomed with pro smashers

oh and GofG, ive noticed that after everything i say, you try and attack me. are you biased against me or something. if you are, then get over it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

oh...well that is kind of risky, because what if it doesnt hit?

LOL ur dumb, if snake is holding on to the cypher and gets shuttle looped MK will always hit the cypher. stop trying to debate me. it doesnt work for you

wow. you are seriously testing my patience. instead of proving me wrong, you insult me.

are you serious, god, this is too good, allow me to present a yuna style you are wrong multiquote...

i thought we all agreed on the fact that yoshi IS neutral. i posted a thread on both snake and MK boards on the matchup and most of them (including M2K) agree that the matchup is neutral. DK...arguably, its 55:45, which is pretty much neutral. DK's fsmash comes out pretty quick for the knockback that it gives >.<. and bair...

Edit: brinboy
you do a lot of irritating things...
pretty much neutral is not neutral, so DK has a disadvantage to MK. yes he can space well with f tilt and back air, but Mk can tornado DK up to near 50% with no resistance, seriously its more dependable than D3s chaingrab. DKs f-smash is slow, d- smash is the quick one.
the ice climbers have infinite chain grabs on everybody in the game, but they still have disadvantageous matchups (one of them being MK)

MK has neutrals...yoshi, snake, possibily DK & wario if CG works

Shut up!! warios chain grab does not work against MK!! stop saying that!!!
also, no pivot grabs can stop airials that are high enough
DK gets tornado *****, its NOT an even match!! stop saying that!!!
snake is teh closest thing to a neutral and thats only if the MK is too aggressive and walks into the grenade camping and tilts

lol at dojo ****** bwett

pathetic.
1. STOP WRITING IN LARGE FONT ITS ANNOYING
2. do you think that i thoroughly research every single freakin matchup? i have NO idea why MK = yoshi. however, most smashers on MK boards and Yoshi boards agree on this. if you dont believe it, then as kthem
2. IM 99.99% SURE THAT DK'S BAIR ***** THROUGH TORNADO.
3. snake is neutral from what i've heard from the majority of players on the snake and MK boards, including M2K

1. i have to get the wariopoint across to you since you dont get the last 15 times i told you.
2. unlike you, i actually care about the game enought to figure out for my self why things are the ways they are. thats why i say dont spout info unless you know for yourself why things are that way.
2(again lol)i love how you love to be selective with when you listen to M2K, he was the FIRST one to notice how hard nado ***** DK because as soon as DK does anything punishable, (and its not hard to do that with DK) he gets trapt ina nado because hes so heavy. and after that hes going to take 4-5 more nados. if you dont believe me. ask Bum, hes the foremost expert on DK and lost to Inui spamming the nado against him in a tourney match (and he was spamming it poorly to boot)
3. snake counters many MK styles, but if you approach the match correctly, MK wins. like i said, all you have to do is not jump into the grenades, and tilts, space and punish accordingly, and be on your gimping game. you just have to approach the match differently.

2. yea ok...*checks private PM* so then, WHY IS YOSHI NEUTRAL to MK? i have no idea, but i know its based on grabs
3. i know DK gets ***** by tornados, im just saying that his moves are almost crafted to defend against the tornado, just that he himself isnt. bair especially
4. again, were talking about HIGH level play. there is no "if you do not approach the match correctly" in HIGH level play, this matchup is neutral

4. if you read hylians MK destroys GaW thread you would know that you have to approach different matchups in different ways
you cant always up b every character when they are above you, like lucario if you try to do that you will get down aired to death, because thats the wrong way to approach the match.
unfortunately, most people try to play against snake the same way they play against D3. and that doesnt work, if you try to tornado spam you will eat a nade, every single time, if you try to be too aggressive, you will eat grenades and tilts all day by being too agressive. not all mks know this, so they end up losing because all it takes is 5 f-tilts and an up tilt to kill MK
i think this fits into my theory (which is close to becoming a law)
Lack of Matchup knowledge counters everyone
even if you are very good at the game, if you approach the match incorrectly, you will get *****
but when you take a MK and a snake that both know the match, and are good with their characters, the Mk will win, but since the MKs have to take the match so differently, they dont always know the match as well as the snake does. hence the reason snake is seen as a possible neutral

snakes recovery has heavy armor frames...none of MK's aerials go through it, and even if hey did, theres still the c4 recovery.

snakes utilt kills MK @ freakin 91%...

god, you really irritate me sometimes,

metaknights n-air, and shuttle loop break the cypher, and theres always the cypher grab option as well. and if snake blows him self up, thats just setting yourself up to get hit by MK even more

nair goes through? imma have to test that...shuttle loop off the edge is instant death for MK. and if snake is RECOVERYING, so you cant grab him, high level snakes shouldnt use cypher close to the edge. and if by some miracle you grab him, he still has the C4. and what do you mean its just setting up to get hit by MK more. HES BLOWING HIMSELF UP TO SURVIVE. C4 = VERTICLE KNOCKBACK. HES SENT FLYING. AKA unless for some reason MK is extremely high above him, your logic fails

he blows him self up, and puts him self in hitstun over the edge, at which point he is MKs play thing once again

every single time you say something rediculously stupid and uninformed i correct you, and dont you dare say that i dont. now please shut up and leave if you are going to say things that easily prove either your lack of years, or your lack of brawl experience. possibly both

EDIT and the fact that you cant tell when somebody is making fun of you when they say that ganon and jiggz are neutral to MK proves that you are stupid and dont need to be here. we are attacking you because you are saying stupid things with unwarrented conviction. and since you say something stupid every post we tell you you are stupid every post. and if you want to think that i am just bagging on you with out a need to, and that im not refuting your poiints, read this post

 

[GofG]

I'm biased against you because I told you to stop arguing for Yuna, because you were making Yuna look bad, then Yuna told you to stop fighting his battles so you finally stopped just agreeing with everything Yuna said and took up your own mantle, and now you're talking about HRC as if it matters that DK's fsmash's knockback scales with percentage faster than the Home Run Bat's does.

I'm biased against you because you have one of those silly create-a-sig sigs that you're level 16 on. I'm biased against you because you're pretty clearly a noob.

Most of all, I'm biased against you because you joined in August of 2008, and I hate the vast majority of people who joined in February or later.

 

[brinboy789]

LOL ur dumb, if snake is holding on to the cypher and gets shuttle looped MK will always hit the cypher. stop trying to debate me. it doesnt work for you
are you serious, god, this is too good, allow me to present a yuna style you are wrong multiquote...





















every single time you say something rediculously stupid and uninformed i correct you, and dont you dare say that i dont. now please shut up and leave if you are going to say things that easily prove either your lack of years, or your lack of brawl experience. possibly both

you have proved NOTHING. all you did was pile a huge mess of quotes. what exactly does this prove? ive given up on being nice. it doesnt work.

ok, so we have argued back and forth, right, and you answered last, i guess i havent noticed your response, the one with hitstun, but that is total BS. brawl = NO hitstun whatsoever. what are you talking about? lol. and we havent even gone into discussing ground game. on the ground snake COMPLETELY destroys MK in every manner except for MK's dsmash. so, your move

 

[GofG]

Worrying about their ground game only matters if, for some reason, we have banned all of Metaknight's aerials. Why would MK ever go up against Snake on the ground when jumping is very, very easy to do?

 

[cutter]

Instead of getting into a tiresome argument against brinboy, why not just report his posts? That's what I've been doing.

 

[brinboy789]

I'm biased against you because I told you to stop arguing for Yuna, because you were making Yuna look bad, then Yuna told you to stop fighting his battles so you finally stopped just agreeing with everything Yuna said and took up your own mantle, and now you're talking about HRC as if it matters that DK's fsmash's knockback scales with percentage faster than the Home Run Bat's does.

I'm biased against you because you have one of those silly create-a-sig sigs that you're level 16 on. I'm biased against you because you're pretty clearly a noob.

Most of all, I'm biased against you because you joined in August of 2008, and I hate the vast majority of people who joined in February or later.

yuna never told me to stop fighting his battles. he just said that we sometimes dissagreed but were on the same side. and HRC has to do with knockback. what dont you get about the fact that DK's fsmash has amazing knockback?!?

i have a create a sig. on noes someone shoot me

imma noob? ok...i would bet 10$ right now that i could kick your ***. and i would bet 50$ that after i kick your ***, you would john : NO YOUR MK NO FAIR

you hate people who join after febrary 2008....-facepalm- we have brought racism to a new level, the level it JOIN DATES.

 

[Zankoku]

Brawl = no hitstun whatsoever? That must mean anyone who gets ftilt locked by Sheik is just being a complete moron. And anyone who gets hit by more than one jab? Yeah, why didn't they just jab back? No hitstun, right?

You're an idiot who somehow accepts hyperbole as fact. Nobody wants to debate with you because not only does your "knowledge" of the game fail epically, but you continue to bring up the same disproven points in every other post even though it's already been disproven.

 

[brinboy789]

Instead of getting into a tiresome argument against brinboy, why not just report his posts? That's what I've been doing.

tell me, what have i been doing wrong? is there something that i did wrong? all i did was debate. i find the flaming in this thread also very alarming.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

brinboy, i bet i could beat you right now online.

no online johns. let's go.

EDIT: omg ankoku what game is that, that looks like so much fun. please don't tell me it's another japan only top-down shooter D:

 

[brinboy789]

Brawl = no hitstun whatsoever? That must mean anyone who gets ftilt locked by Sheik is just being a complete moron. And anyone who gets hit by more than one jab? Yeah, why didn't they just jab back? No hitstun, right?

You're an idiot who somehow accepts hyperbole as fact. Nobody wants to debate with you because not only does your "knowledge" of the game fail epically, but you continue to bring up the same disproven points in every other post even though it's already been disproven.

ok fine, pretty much no hitstun. if you use C4, will you have THAT much hitstun so that MK can jump all the way up and hit you? no. what points have i brought up? all ive said is that theyre neutral matchups, and now a whole discussion about matchups has sprung up. i didnt do anything wrong, im just debating

 

[brinboy789]

brinboy, i bet i could beat you right now online.

no online johns. let's go.

EDIT: omg ankoku what game is that, that looks like so much fun. please don't tell me it's another japan only top-down shooter D:

your on. cept my onlines been faulty lately. i MIGHT be able to go on. trying now

got on. whats your FC? miens 5455-9453-2636

 

[da K.I.D.]

Brawl = no hitstun whatsoever? That must mean anyone who gets ftilt locked by Sheik is just being a complete moron. And anyone who gets hit by more than one jab? Yeah, why didn't they just jab back? No hitstun, right?

You're an idiot who somehow accepts hyperbole as fact. Nobody wants to debate with you because not only does your "knowledge" of the game fail epically, but you continue to bring up the same disproven points in every other post even though it's already been disproven.

oh thank god. i was starting to think that it was just me that was seeing all the ***********

 

[Boxob]

I also propose an online **** of this scrub.

Except with Sonic, so it's sexier.

 

[Zankoku]

Bringing up Meta Knight's "neutral" matchups when people who are more knowledgeable than you of said matchups have already told you that they aren't neutral, and in fact explained very clearly why they aren't neutral, is rather questionable "debating." Bringing it up a third, fourth, hell, FIFTH time is simply doing incredibly poorly at attempting to play devil's advocate.

If Snake is using C4 to recover, Meta Knight doesn't have to wait until Snake reaches the peak of the C4's knockback. Just wait somewhere between that point and Snake and dair/nair him on his way up.

 

[GofG]

Brin, it's people like you as to why i'm "racist" against 08ers. By the way, the fact that you are unfamiliar with the intolerance against your kind means that you still don't understand what's going on.

By the way, being able to beat me in brawl means nothing. I will, however, play you in starcraft, or guilty gear, or street fighter, or magic the gathering, or Melee, or Pokemon rby/gse/rse, or Kongai, or any other game that's actually worth playing instead of Brawl, and I'll beat you there.

 

[Falconv1.0]

imma noob? ok...i would bet 10$ right now that i could kick your ***. and i would bet 50$ that after i kick your ***, you would john : NO YOUR MK NO FAIR

What the **** are you smoking. Gofg actually plays good people regularly, you dont. You sure as hell ****ing sound like a noob, since you're talking **** without any ****ing proof to back your dumb **** up.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ok fine, pretty much no hitstun. if you use C4, will you have THAT much hitstun so that MK can jump all the way up and hit you? no. what points have i brought up? all ive said is that theyre neutral matchups, and now a whole discussion about matchups has sprung up. i didnt do anything wrong, im just debating

if he knows you have no option but to c4 he can jump out there be4 hand and prepare to shuttle loop you without you escaping hitstun.
again, stupid uninformed arguements and i continue to correct you.

you should be paying me for all the knowledge that im giving you. its like a college course, smash 101
edit

oh and by the way, youre already johning about your online

 

[brinboy789]

oh thank god. i was starting to think that it was just me that was seeing all the ***********

seriously, SWF needs more nice people. da kid, you have issues. if yuo think im ********, keep that to yourself

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

your on. cept my onlines been faulty lately. i MIGHT be able to go on. trying now

got on. whats your FC? miens 5455-9453-2636

my fc is 1375-6977-5352, i'll host

 

[GofG]

What the **** are you smoking. Gofg actually plays good people regularly, you dont. You sure as hell ****ing sound like a noob, since you're talking **** without any ****ing proof to back your dumb **** up.

/hug

I have my own fanboy!

Soon, I will overtake Yuna himself!

 

[brinboy789]

im giving up on proving that MK has neutral matchups to a bunch of people who wont listen to me and resopnd with insults. vulgar hand gestures, whats your FC?

 

[Falconv1.0]

seriously, SWF needs more nice people. da kid, you have issues. if yuo think im ********, keep that to yourself

Actually, it needs more smart people, since the elite are the ones who get **** done since they now what they are talking about. If they want to be *******es, then go ahead, be offended, doesn't make them wrong.

 

[Zankoku]

seriously, SWF needs more nice people. da kid, you have issues. if yuo think im ********, keep that to yourself

"Niceness" is inversely proportional to the amount of patience you manage to expend with your moronic statements you put forth as "fact."

 

[Boxob]

if yuo think im ********,

I lol'd.