Galanoth7395
Smash Apprentice
okay, ty sir bedevere
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What exactly is the writers contest?Smash Writer-Win the Writer's contest/something else, not 100% sure.
I'm not the person to ask lol. To the best of my knowledge, the writer's contest is some monthly/bi-monthly contest where people write an essay on a particular subject, and the person with the one the judges find to be the best is made a writer.What exactly is the writers contest?
I think people look at him and see that he's really a character that can't be as dependable as others. He does lack a punish game and can make a mistake of his own and possibly lose an entire auraboost, and leaves a weak Lucario to try and kill the opponent.I've got a question... what's keeping Lucario from breaking into top tier..?
Why would ROB drop? I seriously doubt that.I think people look at him and see that he's really a character that can't be as dependable as others. He does lack a punish game and can make a mistake of his own and possibly lose an entire auraboost, and leaves a weak Lucario to try and kill the opponent.
I'm sure that's what sets most people off from him, and it isn't until you start playing as or against him that he's not nearly as fragile as first believed.
Still, he's a rather linear character, and I think there's enough characters in this game that can take advantage of that. He has a subpar approach game and a subpar camp game, so anyone that can deal with those well will likely do well in general. Also having some difficult matchups in the top/high tier (DDD, GaW, Marth) keep him where he is right now, and I think that's fine.
Luc might pass Wario solely due to grab releases, and I don't see ROB clutching his current spot for much longer, so Luc may have a surprise entrance into 7th. The only character that I see having enough potential to surpass him is Diddy. His overall spot is pretty settled I think.
I 2nd ThatWhy would ROB drop? I seriously doubt that.
Shut Up! Rob sucks! jk. All he does is break the 3 laws.Why would ROB drop? I seriously doubt that.
It's friendly competition.Shut Up! Rob sucks! jk. All he does is break the 3 laws.
Boo list! Worse than this one! (no sarcasm)UNSTOPPABLE:
Meta Knight
TOP:
King Dedede
Mr. Game & Watch
Snake
Falco
Marth
R.O.B
Wario
HIGH:
Lucario
Olimar
Diddy Kong
Kirby
Ice Climbers
Donkey Kong
Pikachu
Wolf
Toon Link
MIDDLE:
Pit
Peach
Luigi
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Bowser
Fox
Sheik
Yoshi
LOW:
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer
Mario
Ike
Samus
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
agree with youi expect Zero Suit Samus to move up because of her Down Smash -.-
and i know this was discussed earlier, but how is dedede above mgaw? and when's the next tier list coming out??? i can't wait! ^.^
Their grab range is horrible. If you know what your doing and you go in with the right mentality and patience.....they're fairly easy.I thought Ice Climbers would be higher, with their kill-you-even-at-0%-chain-grab.
Why'd they go so low?
well im glad your the ONLY one happy about that.......oh yeah, awesome ganon is still bottom tier.....he's still the king of evil.Awsome MK is at the top , xD MK is still King
Oof. You're comparing Sonic to MK in one aspect of the game, but forgetting all the advantages MK has compared to Sonic, such as a disjointed hitbox, fast, lagless aerials, a two spammable specials (if you count Shuttle Loop -> Glide Attack spam and consider it spammable), and 5 mid-air jumps makes him much better than Sonic at gimping (though Sonic is pretty good at it too). Overall he just has better tools to work with and better overall matchups than Sonic.Why is Sonic so low? He is really good at putting the pressure on, his only problem is lack of killing power, but MK has that too.
Wow... that's a really good post!Description of Sonic.
This. Seriously their CG are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo overated.Their grab range is horrible. If you know what your doing and you go in with the right mentality and patience.....they're fairly easy.
Sarcasm, I was being sarcastic.Oh wow 20% combos.
Can't Snake do that just doing an F-tilt? LOL.
Are you kidding? Have you ever played a MK? And BTW. Sonic can't gimp or use a Whorenado like MK can.Why is Sonic so low? He is really good at putting the pressure on, his only problem is lack of killing power, but MK has that too.
haha. Ness footstool combos... what a waste of time and effort. Take a gander at the prescision and effectiveness of Sheiks.This. Seriously their CG are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo overated.
Ness footstool combo's are broken though. Easily top tier above MK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1N0D0SdIr4&feature=related
Ehh... They truly are deadly.haha. Ness footstool combos... what a waste of time and effort. Take a gander at the prescision and effectiveness of Sheiks.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=g3je-k53-DU&feature=related
Overall a good description, but I think there are some points I'd like to argue. Sonic is by no means MK, but I still don't think he deserves that placement. I don't really care about his placement though, I just want some stuff set straight.Oof. You're comparing Sonic to MK in one aspect of the game, but forgetting all the advantages MK has compared to Sonic, such as a disjointed hitbox, fast, lagless aerials, a two spammable specials (if you count Shuttle Loop -> Glide Attack spam and consider it spammable), and 5 mid-air jumps makes him much better than Sonic at gimping (though Sonic is pretty good at it too). Overall he just has better tools to work with and better overall matchups than Sonic.
But as to why Sonic sucks in particular, it's more than just the lack of killing power, it's about the lack of killing options as well. Sonic's main killing tools are fsmash and bair. Fsmash isn't exactly one of the faster smashes, and not only will you have to setup for a bair to kill, but it's most likely going to be somewhat stale at some point of the match, being the awesome move that it is. After that, you have dsmash, which is also not that fast, and uair, which normally requires a Spring to set up for a kill, as your more reliable kill moves on stage.
People like to count Sonic's lack of priority as an issue, so you can if you want to. I don't.
Sonic has to approach everybody. Considering that too many people have moves with lingering hitboxes/multiple hits that are pretty common to abuse (also projectiles, but Sonic has numerous ways of not getting bogged down from spam) ground approaches can be particularly tough depending on the matchup. That just leaves the air for approaches. Sonic's air game is a bit lacking for that purpose. His primary means are SH Fair and ASC and those aren't particularly as effective as other aerial approaches.
Basically, Sonic is outclassed by a lot of characters in areas that are required to win in Brawl. He doesn't have a projectile, so he can't really camp, he has low killing power and a lack of consistently effective kill moves, so he racks up damage in all the time he takes in not KOing his opponent, and the hitboxes of most of his moves don't stay out long and most aren't really that abusable. His most abused moves are Spin Dash and Spin Charge, and without the opponent effectively positioning himself or playing mindgames, those are easily dodged, and an opponent can probably counter your follow up with their respective OOS games.
We should make this a weekly thing between us - we do it so often!Overall a good description, but I think there are some points I'd like to argue. Sonic is by no means MK, but I still don't think he deserves that placement. I don't really care about his placement though, I just want some stuff set straight.
Sonic definitely has problems approaching Peach and Wario as well. Everyone else just gives him projectile issues, but it only takes a second to get around that. I'm not really saying that Sonic approaching is truly an issue to his game, but the fact that he has to approach in the fashion that he does is one of the factors that set him below the bar. When you look at it, a lot of the characters above Sonic can use projectiles to camp or spam a little to cover their own approach. They use it as a defensive tactic to bait disadvantegous movements from their opponents. In the process they do damage and can potentially slow down the opponent. All Sonic can do to the same effect is attempt to fake them out - not as consistently reliable as most projectiles. That's realy what I was trying to get at in my post.Approaching: Sonic has too approach everyone, yes. But is that really ever an issue? Only character I find truly gives Sonic trouble approachng is Olimar. Otherwse approaching with Sonic is rarely a problem, like approaching with MK. Yea I know MK is uber awesome and whatnot, but he still approaches most of the time as well. They approach in different ways and different intentions(MK goes directly into attack mode, lol), but nevertheless neither char has particular trouble approaching in most cases. Ground approaches can also be one of the safest ways to approach with Sonic imo, but thats just me. Sonic's approach game is safe in that almost none of his approaches commit him to being damaged. Of course you will be hit or grabbed out of them now and then, but the same can be said about any other char.
Point taken.I would also like to counter the point about his most abused moves being Spin Dash and Charge, as that is really something from like, way back in the day. Nowadays I wouldnt say at all these are his most abused moves. The general playstyle trend today would probably indicate that grabs, whether from running shields, or SideB/ASC cancels, are his most abused moves. But even that I wouldn't exactly call "abused". Sonics game relies much more heavily on making the right choice of move than other characters. By this I mean that there are often too many trade-offs in using a move, so you have to choose wisely. For example, Bair is disjointed and powerful, and has like no landing lag, yet it has noticable startup lag. Fair on the other hand is very quick and does a good amount of damage, yet it has tons of end lag and is not as disjointed.
Actually, therein lies the problem. The reason people make such move commitment in higher level play with some of the better characters is because those moves obviously work effeciently with a minimal amount of practice. I mean, G&W's dsmash? It's rediculous. So while most higher tiered characters are abusing these types of moves, Sonic, on the other hand requires more precision in landing his moves. Now, assuming the user is able to land them often, that would partially indicate how skilled a Sonic user is. But Sonic himself is struggling to fight through giant lingering hit boxes and lagless, abusable, disjointed attacks. So we can say a player's skill can increase exponentially through higher level play, but Sonic is still pretty garbage.I find that one of Sonic's main issues is that he needs to make these choices. He doesn't have many moves that "just work" in almost every applicable situation, like for example MKs and Marth's Fairs. However, this is also the reason why I believe Sonic becomes exponentially better at top level play because this move commitment issue is not as serious as a problem when one is skilled enough to assess one's move choices quickly and effectively.
Not sure if you're rebutting against me or working with me to prove my point to the previous user that asked about Sonic, but this is correct.Sonic is by nature a punishment character. He can indeed create openings quite well, but these openings are not created by the conventional means of having an attack that just disrupts your opponents. Rather they are born from the inherent mindgames that are a result of Sonics ATs. And the thing is, most characters that can create an opening attack while doing so. They do damage as they creat an opening in the opponents defenses(MKs nado and Fair for example). Sonic on the other hand, has to first create an opening, and then attack. His lack of variety in killing options further exacerbate this problem.
Well first, I would disagree with your first point in this statement. If Sonic deserves midBecause Sonic is such a punishment character, I believe it by nature compels him to be placed in the mid tier. He can capitalize better than almost anyone on an opponent's mistake or leftover opening, yet he has trouble creating these openings. An opponent playing a perfectly patient game, with a little risk-little reward playstyle, will usually perform better against Sonikku than one who has a high risk-high reward playstle. This is because Sonic can capitalize and punish those risks taken. But if the opponent choses to leave little oppenings, even if at the cost of small rewards, it becomes more difficult for Sonic to play effectively. Again, he can create openings if an opponent chooses to play this well, but it is simply not as aeffective as having attacks that do so naturally.
If anything it warrants him being pushed a few spots up, but even then he'd still be in the low tier.And, at the risk of being trite, there is no better evidence for Sonic deserving a better ranking than Sonic's consistent performance in tournaments. Few good Sonic mains as there may be, Sonic still has averaged somewhere in the "mid tier range" of tournament rankings, although I know rankings aren't all that are involved in the tier list.
After the SBR's Character Discussion on Sonic, I'd be amazed if the SBR even cared to pay attention to Sonic results when forming the next version of the tier list. (Yes, I did look at it. I just didn't post)I personally am at peace with his current tier ranking, and I understand the SBR not taking tournaments into highest account when making the tier list. I think since the list was released so early in the Metaknightgame, assessing chracter potential and such was more important than oturnament rankings, because the metagame was too young for the tourney results of the time to be as valid as they could be. I would gander that as brawl ages, tournament rankings will come more and more into play in the tier list as the development of charactersw will have been more drawn out, and tournament rankings become better represntations of how "good" a char is.
Rawr.