The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Frown]

My first tier list attempt ever! Wohoo!

TOP
1. Metaknight

HIGH
2. Snake
3. King Dedede
4. Mr. Game & Watch
5. Falco
6. Wario
7. Marth
8. Chimpy Kong
9. Konkey Dong
10. Ice Climbers
11. R.O.B.

MIDDLE
12. Kirby or Pikachu
13. Pikachu or Kirby
14. Lucario
15. Zero Suit Samus
16. Olimar
17. Wolf
18. Zelda
19. Wolf Pit
20. Toon Link
21. Luigi
22. Fox
23. Ness
24. Bowser
25. Peach
26. Sheik
27. Pokémon Trainer
28. Mario

LOW
29. Ike
30. Lucas
31. Samus
32. Yoshi
33. Sonic
34. Ganondorf
35. J-Ball
36. Link

TOO MANLY FOR TIERS
37. Captorn Falcorn

EDIT: Two Wolves, no Pit. I suck at this. O_o
EDIT #2: fix'd

 

[Bowser King]

I'm sorry, I still don't get it. IMO Sonic sucks for all the ways that his moveset is lacking, which includes a myriad of glitches and exploitable weaknesses. These are things you would learn from studying the match-up; so how can you learn the match-up without knowing why Sonic sucks? I don't know how knowing Sonic sucks will help you fight a Sonic; whereas knowing why he sucks allows you to actually capitalize on his failings. They're not all obvious.

*shrug* w/e, this is irrelevant anyway, I can give you the benefit of the doubt.

Sonic doesn't suck because of his moveset. He sucks because Nintendo and Hideo Kojima are asserting their dominance over Sega through their placement of Sonic in Brawl.

^^^^This is what I was trying to say...

-Bowser King

 

[Lenus Altair]

My first tier list attempt ever! Wohoo!

I've noticed the tendancy for people to forget Pit exsists...

He probally belongs at the top of mid teir, though their is leway their.

 

[PrepareYourself]

I've noticed the tendancy for people to forget Pit exsists...

He probally belongs at the top of mid teir, though their is leway their.

That place is reserved for Peach.

And I think I know you.

 

[Denzi]

My first tier list attempt ever! Wohoo!

MIDDLE
12. Kirby or Pikachu
13. Pikachu or Kirby
14. Lucario
15. Zero Suit Samus
16. Olimar
17. Wolf
18. Zelda
19. Wolf
20. Toon Link
21. Luigi
22. Fox
23. Ness
24. Bowser
25. Peach
26. Sheik
27. Pokémon Trainer
28. Mario

LOW
29. Ike
30. Lucas
31. Samus
32. Yoshi
33. Sonic
34. Ganondorf
35. J-Ball
36. Link

TOO MANLY FOR TIERS
37. Captorn Falcorn

Did you notice #'s 17 and 19? I also don't think Zelda should be so high unless maybe you put her as Zelda/Sheik. It seems like Samus should be higher too.

The last category made me laugh though

 

[Lenus Altair]

That place is reserved for Peach.

And I think I know you.

Then I guess Pit can take the slot above.

And yes, you do know me.

 

[brinboy789]

TOP
1. Metaknight
2. Snake
3. Mr. Game & Watch
4. Falco
5. King Dedede

HIGH

6. Diddy Kong
7. R.O.B.
8. Marth
9. Wario
10. Kirby
11. Zero Suit Samus
12. Donkey Dong


MIDDLE
13. Olimar
14 Pikachu
15. Ice Climbers
16. Lucario
17. Toon Link
18. Fox
19 .Wolf
20. Pit
21. Ike
22. Zelda
23. Sheik
24. Ness
25. Luigi
26. Mario
27. Peach
28. Sonic
29. Bowser
30. Yoshi
31. Pokémon Trainer

LOW

32. Lucas
33. Samus
34. Ganondorf
35. jiggs
36. Link
37. Captorn Falcorn

my idea of what the tier lists gonna be like.

 

[Frown]

Did you notice #'s 17 and 19?

WOOPS

That means I have left one out...

 

[brinboy789]

WOOPS

That means I have left one out...

you left IC's out

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

If Ness is going to go up, then so should Lucas. I'm still at the mindset that Lucas is better than Ness, but that's just me

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I like where Brinboy placed Ike. Though I doubt Ike will be above Zelda.....it would be a nice surprise though.

 

[Rawnie]

peach is really low. she should be around 18

 

[Snowstalker]

LOL at Ike not being in the bottom 10. Also, LOL at Peach moving down.

 

[AquaTech]

FastLikeMe's UPDATED Teer List:

Banned:
Metaknight

Top:
Snake
Mr. Game & Watch
King Dedede
ROB
Marth

High
Falco
Diddy
Pikachu
Wario
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Olimar
Wolf
Kirby
Ice Climbers

Middle
Toon Link
Fox
Zelda
Ike
Peach
Sonic
Zero Suit Samus

Low
Bowser
Luigi
Shiek
Mario
PKMN Trainer
Lucas
Ness

Bottom:
Yoshi
Samus
Ganondorf
Link
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon

 

[YagamiLight]

LOL at Ike not being in the bottom 10.

He wasn't in the bottom 10 at the last tier list and his metagame has only improved (Quite a bit) since then.

Stop being biased.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

He wasn't in the bottom 10 at the last tier list and his metagame has only improved (Quite a bit) since then.

Stop being biased.

But other characters have improved too. It's a question of how much Ike has improved when compared to other characters.

 

[Roxas215]

Phillyrider807's Tier List!!

TOP
1. Metaknight
2. Snake
3. Mr. Game & Watch
4. Falco
5. King Dedede

HIGH

6. R.O.B
7. Marth
8. Diddy Kong
9. Olimar
10.Wario
11.Kirby
12.ZSS

MIDDLE
13. Pikachu
14 Donkey Kong
15. Ice Climbers
16. Lucario
17. Toon Link
18. Fox
19 .Wolf
20. Pit
21. Peach
22. Zelda
23. Yoshi
24. Ness
25. Luigi
26. Mario
27. Sonic
28. Ike
29. Bowser
30. Shiek
31. Pokémon Trainer

LOW

32. Lucas
33. Samus
34. Jigglypuff
35. Ganondorf
36. Link
37. Captain Falcon

 

[Snowstalker]

FastLikeMe's UPDATED Teer List:

Banned:
Metaknight-Fine

Top:
Snake-Fine
Mr. Game & Watch-Fine
King Dedede-Fine
ROB-Too high
Marth-Fine

High
Falco-Too low
Diddy-Fine
Pikachu-Too high
Wario-Fine
Lucario-Fine
Donkey Kong-Fine
Olimar-Fine
Wolf-Fine
Kirby-Fine
Ice Climbers-Too low

Middle
Toon Link-Fine
Fox-Too high
Zelda-Too high
Ike-WAY too high
Peach-Too low
Sonic-Too high
Zero Suit Samus-Too low

Low
Bowser-Fine
Luigi-Too low
Shiek-Fine
Mario-Too low
PKMN Trainer-Fine
Lucas-Fine
Ness-Too low

Bottom:
Yoshi-Too low
Samus-Fine
Ganondorf-Fine
Link-Fine
Jigglypuff-Fine
Captain Falcon-Fine

My critique. Also, are you an Ike mainer? Because that's the only way anyone could put him above Peach.

 

[AquaTech]

No I don't main Ike, but his Sword has max range, so Peach would have a tough time fighting him.

 

[LinIsKorean]

I can see Bowser going bottom of middle or low. =/

 

[Roxas215]

No I don't main Ike, but his Sword has max range, so Peach would have a tough time fighting him.

Peach being my secondary i can safely say ike is one of my easier matchups.

Yes ike has range but peach's speed + turnip spam = deadly nightmare for ike. However if one goes in without patience then ike will have the upperhand as it will take to the very late 100's in order to kill ike. But as long as one space attacks and just use her speed to the advantage it's really a one sided matchup. Just as long as u don't float into a fsmash.

 

[YagamiLight]

But other characters have improved too. It's a question of how much Ike has improved when compared to other characters.

Certainly the rest have improved.

Ike has, however, gained quite a few key improvements. Grab releases on a nice chunk of the cast, including some really good ones such as a Regrab on Squirtle and Ganon that ends in a walk-off Fair, Grab Release to Aether/Ftilt/Bair/Up Tilt on Wario, Ledge release Fair on Sheik and Ganondorf and a free Dash attack on many others (I'm not counting the stuff known before the tier list, such as the Jab on Ness and Lucas).

Then you have various combos found and proven with frame data, such as Jab 1 to Jab 1, Nair to Bair and Bthrow to Dash attack. Jab to Ledgedropped Bair is also a true combo. He has also been found to have several other combos if the opponent doesn't jump out of the jab, such as Up Tilt.

And finally you have the fact that Ike players on the whole are smarter and that the realization that Ike is a GOD on Pirate Ship means he only has to win the neutral match when Pirate Ship is allowed. I'd say that warrants him at least keeping his spot, if not moving up.

As for this Ike v Peach bit, quite a few Peach players went into the Ike match-up guide and said it was neutral, so we'll take their word on that.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

And finally you have the fact that Ike players on the whole are smarter and that the realization that Ike is a GOD on Pirate Ship means he only has to win the neutral match when Pirate Ship is allowed. I'd say that warrants him at least keeping his spot, if not moving up.

You can't generalize that people that play a certain character are smarter than others. I ASSUME that's a joke?

Is he really that good on Pirate Ship? I don't think I've ever lost to one there. Granted that's a match I've done like...3 times but what makes it so good for Ike? Water spikes?

 

[Roxas215]

Certainly the rest have improved.

Ike has, however, gained quite a few key improvements. Grab releases on a nice chunk of the cast, including some really good ones such as a Regrab on Squirtle and Ganon that ends in a walk-off Fair, Grab Release to Aether/Ftilt/Bair/Up Tilt on Wario, Ledge release Fair on Sheik and Ganondorf and a free Dash attack on many others (I'm not counting the stuff known before the tier list, such as the Jab on Ness and Lucas).

Then you have various combos found and proven with frame data, such as Jab 1 to Jab 1, Nair to Bair and Bthrow to Dash attack. Jab to Ledgedropped Bair is also a true combo. He has also been found to have several other combos if the opponent doesn't jump out of the jab, such as Up Tilt.

And finally you have the fact that Ike players on the whole are smarter and that the realization that Ike is a GOD on Pirate Ship means he only has to win the neutral match when Pirate Ship is allowed. I'd say that warrants him at least keeping his spot, if not moving up.

As for this Ike v Peach bit, quite a few Peach players went into the Ike match-up guide and said it was neutral, so we'll take their word on that.

Yea i actually went to the peach board right after i posted that. It could be the ike player i play daily could just suck. lol. I take my statement back!

You can't generalize that people that play a certain character are smarter than others. I ASSUME that's a joke?

Is he really that good on Pirate Ship? I don't think I've ever lost to one there. Granted that's a match I've done like...3 times but what makes it so good for Ike? Water spikes?[/QUOTE]

Im assuming. Could be the part of the stage where the ship is tilted it's very easy for ike to land a kill also.

 

[YagamiLight]

You can't generalize that people that play a certain character are smarter than others. I ASSUME that's a joke?

Is he really that good on Pirate Ship? I don't think I've ever lost to one there. Granted that's a match I've done like...3 times but what makes it so good for Ike? Water spikes?

The smarter comment was jokingly said, yes.

Let me put it this way: I find it hard to imagine Ike losing on Pirate Ship. Everything about the stage helps Ike. First of all, the stage layout itself makes it easy for Ike to get in at his optimal Fair range and avoid projectiles. The platforms on the stage are in very optimal positions to allow Ike to both strike from there and attack those on there. If there happens to be a wall (Which is common enough there), Ike gets an Fthrow infinite until the percent he chooses.

All of that doesn't even factor in the water. If you remove the ability to potentially gimp Ike and instead have to rely on killing him vertically (As you will have to, most often) you're in for serious trouble. Then you have the finishing blow with how Ike can simply be in the water, Aether you from the water (Dealing 20% or so) then follow it up with a Dair unless he sucks. Dtilt is also powerful enough to send you through the water, even when standing on the ship's bow. And the floatiness aspect allows Ike to not have to land after Fairing, a wonderful aspect.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Toon Link deserves to be in high tier after discovering this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e71yBIVaq1w&feature=channel_page

And maybe Link will make it on somewhere on top of low tier.

 

[Ryusuta]

Toon Link deserves to be in high tier after discovering this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e71yBIVaq1w&feature=channel_page

And maybe Link will make it on somewhere on top of low tier.

It's good, but it's not THAT good.

 

[Barge]

Toon Link deserves to be in high tier after discovering this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e71yBIVaq1w&feature=channel_page

And maybe Link will make it on somewhere on top of low tier.

Thats just doing an air dodge and dropping it at the same time...

Useful yes, but not enough to place him in high tier.

 

[PKNintendo]

Nice find Calibur champ.

 

[infomon]

Isn't it a subset of [this]?

^^ top tier, btw.

 

[Snowstalker]

I'm not saying Ike is a bad character, it's just that several characters currently below him *coughsoniccoughyoshicough* have had much greater strides in their metagames. Ike is decent, but who is he better than, other than the obvious ones (Ganon, CF, Link, Jiggs, Samus)?

 

[Kinzer]

Ike is decent, but who is he better than, other than the obvious ones (Ganon, CF, Link, Jiggs, Samus)?

The matchups that are in his favor.

 

[YagamiLight]

I'm not saying Ike is a bad character, it's just that several characters currently below him *coughsoniccoughyoshicough* have had much greater strides in their metagames. Ike is decent, but who is he better than, other than the obvious ones (Ganon, CF, Link, Jiggs, Samus)?

The main question is: Are those large metagame strides enough to overcome Ike's own metagame strides (As remember, Yoshi's grab releases were known before the tier list) in addition to Ike's latent "1-up" from the previous tier list? I'd say no.

I'm not going to be some sort of *** here and say that Yoshi and Sonic are on equal terms with say...Ganon, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Samus. They are also better than Mario (Who is actually quite bad and it shocks me that people don't see this), Pokemon Trainer, Lucas and perhaps Ness (Who does not suck, but "good" is not a term you can apply to him). There may be more I'm forgetting, but you get the gist of it.

Essentially, I would order the low tier in this fashion:

Middle Tier
Sonic P.p.p.promotion!

Yoshi He deserves the top of low tier.
Ness He and Yoshi are most likely interchangeable, but I don't see either of them going the distance to Middle ground.
Pokemon Trainer A high position in the low tier list suits him, as even with flawed mechanics he still has decent components.
Lucas Worse than Ness, though definitely not by much (Is that a good thing or a bad thing).

And then the last few not too many people care about.

I, personally, would place Ike at about Zelda/Sheik level and perhaps Toon Link level. To some this may seem high but you should look at them side by side and realize that neither is amazing, neither gets ***** in a match-up (7-3 is not "****") [Unlike say, Bowser, Fox, Luigi who get uberboned in some match-ups and who I'd place below Ike and Zelda/Sheik and Toon Link.]

Will people disagree with my post? Certainly. It's probably more radical than most people think at the moment. State your disagreements in a calm, collected manner and I'll address them (Comments such as "lulz, Ike sucks, press the R button looooool" will be either ignored or condemned for making me lose brain cells).

 

[CaliburChamp]

Thats just doing an air dodge and dropping it at the same time...

Useful yes, but not enough to place him in high tier.

It definitely is possible that Toon Link will be high tier. Toon Link is only "1 position away from making it into high tier, he is at the very top of mid tier right now. Invinci-Bombing can make him go up because now he can Invinci-Bomb into an UP-SMASH! That mean's he now has a "true combo" that leads into a KO move which is Toon Link's up smash.
It registers as 2 consecutive hits in training mode.

 

[Ryusuta]

You don't seem to understand. We KNOW the capabilities of this AT. The problem is that it doesn't fundamentally change his game or have a significant impact on any of his match-ups. At best it gives him another option in some situations. It certainly DOESN'T buy him a higher tier category. Even a higher tier position would be an incredible stretch.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

If it's reliable it could. TL's biggest problems IMO are his midrange game and his killing options.

 

[Ryusuta]

I seriously doubt it, to be honest. It's not exactly 100% unpunishable, and this seem like EXACTLY the kind of technique that someone would begin to rely too heavily on at the expense of the rest of Tink's abilities.

I can almost promise you it won't have a significant effect on his placement, especially on this upcoming version.

 

[gantrain05]

i don't really have problems killing with Tink =/ its easy enough to set something up with a boomerang/bomb combination.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Toon Link is fine. High mid, I think.

If Sonic gets mid on the tier list on Jan 5th, on my honour, I will leave this site forever. It's not going to happen. Yes, he deserves it, it's just the SBR doesn't care about Sonic, or anybody below mid tier, really.

 

[Kinzer]

Don't do it Roy, we need your comedic Melee F@ggotry back at he Sonic boards, but even then it just wouldn't be the same without you! <3333

/tear