Alright Nidtendofreak, I shall cover for you.
Ike is in no way bottom. Or were you referring to Sonic? Cause he's not bottom either. I agree either way. XD
Neither of those characters are bottom. I don't know about Sonic but for every person who admits that Ike is solid and good you get around five who think that Ike is bottom of the barrel material. I thought we had moved past April, but I guess not.
1) .
people **** wario with grabs but hes still high tier, that implies to me that characters can have **** grabs and still be low tier. also, i dont think back throw to DA is a true combo.... but i dont know, i just know it doesnt work on sonic.
If you buffer the Dash Attack it should work, but that's irrelevant. It's certainly possible to have **** grabs and be low (Yoshi) just as it is possible to have a mediocre grab game and be top (Game and Watch). It should all be factored into the character. What we are saying is that Ike's grab game went from "lol don't use this" to "good idea" over the course of the tier list.
2)
Every character in the game has those.
Ike has quite a few guaranteed ones that all end up doing very good damage. You also have to factor in one last thing: If Mario gets 30% on you, you shrug it off. If Ike gets 30% on you, you're in the danger zone.
3)
But hes mid tier now. he should be beating all the low tiers and some of the mids.
and if we learned anything from the discussion we had in ankokus thread just now, its that tourney results arent quintessential to a characters placement.
As said, his results are similar to Zelda/Sheik and the only low character he isn't beating is Sonic.
4) Mad priority, range, and power
But hes super slow. the only fast move he has is jab and back air, all of his other fast moves are kinda average
Up Tilt isn't average, but your point is noted. I should say, however, that Jab ***** so much that I don't see much use in having extra moves.
5) No ****'d match-ups. Only 3 3-7 disadvantages. (D3, Falco, Olimar)
how many advantages does he have?
Most of low tier (Of course), parts of mid tier, high tier match-ups are all up in the air believe it or not but I CAN tell you that Ice Climbers are definitely in his favor and a grand majority of them are neutral or close to it.
6)
its not that big for him, cause he cant spawn his own items.
It helps in key match-ups such as Snake, R.O.B. and Diddy Kong, all VERY good characters.
7)
having a few not **** matchups does not a good character make. especially if he still loses.
It doesn't mean that he's a good character necessarily , but if he only loses out barely to the top dogs then that's definitely important.
8)
its doesnt seem like he could win without it. a character shouldnt be that dependant on one move...
It's his only really viable ground move, yeah, but it just so happens to be the best jab in the game. With possibilities of jab cancels dealing 30%(!) at times, not to mention it coming out on frame 3, the fact that it's his most used move doesn't make it worse. Besides, Snake loves his Ftilt for close quarters. King Dedede loves his grab and Marth loves his Dancing Blade. All of those are slower than the jab.
9)
pirate ship isnt neutral and isnt garenteed to be legal.
It generally is legal, to the best of my knowledge. In addition, having an uber counterpick up your sleeve is definitely a good idea.
That's because your recovery doesn't matter on that stage.
Aether has tiny horizontal movement and quick draw is extremely predictable. His recovery is probably the worst in the game, after the tether ones (and possibly Link).That's because your recovery doesn't matter on that stage.
First off, Aether can grab the ledge from surprising places, especially reverse Aethers. Secondly, did you know that Ike's fall speed and jump height are not bad nor good? This, in addition to Aether being very "safe" mean that he'll almost always recover. On paper Ike gets gimped, in theory it's not happening. Ike is good on Pirate ship because it makes his offstage game go from "Bleh" to "****."
