The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Kewkky]

Where the FVCK is tier list v4.0??

Here it is: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=272452

 

[Nestec]

....I hate the world.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

HAO.

So predictable D:

 

[Kewkky]

I love the internet, it is the source of my laughter whenever I find myself bored or melancholic.

I hope this teaches you all to just wait patiently, v4.0 will come eventually. *chuckles*

 

[zeldspazz]

The fact that is was a smashboards link through me off

 

[St. Viers]

^^I always look at the bottom of the screen to show me link locations...take that =P

 

[YagamiLight]

The fact that is was a smashboards link through me off

Make sure to check in the lower left hand corner to see if it's truly a Smashboards link first. It's what I did. Then I clicked it anyway because I like the song and have nothing to do.

 

[zeldspazz]

^OH MY GOD

I never knew that. Get ***** future rick rolls!

 

[phi1ny3]

The fact that is was a smashboards link through me off

I think that's the point, hehe.

 

[LanceStern]

Peach Vs Meta and Marth is crazy. Yet I have never put the blame on my character for losing that. It's my fault. I should have step it up and not play like an idiot so I could win, done. And If I get out played, I get out played. Still not gonna blame my character. No need for that and gets nothing done. Or else don't play them to begin with. Not taking responsebility for your actions and mistakes does not make you a true player/man.

Again, let m2k pick up ganondorf or samus and put them against Metaknight/Olimar.

It will NOT be the player that messes up, it's the character/matchup, bottom line. Sure this line of thinking is true with a lot of characters (maybe C tier and above) but you can't make this the general rule, it's faulty thinking.

 

[Conviction]

Again, let m2k pick up ganondorf or samus and put them against Metaknight/Olimar.

It will NOT be the player that messes up, it's the character/matchup, bottom line. Sure this line of thinking is true with a lot of characters (maybe C tier and above) but you can't make this the general rule, it's faulty thinking.

Haha idk what your arguement is here.....

First put M2k as an example for something then say it will be the character that messes up >.>

Ok M2K picks up Ganon or Samus. Judgin from how fast M2K learns characters Metagames and plays them at their highest level..... M2K starts beat people that play C and higher......


Soooo in this senerio which YOU put on the table. Whose fault is it? The charater or player?


P.S. I keep hearing ohhhh Fox,Wolf,Shiek,etc. are good but not viable/have potential. How contradicting does that sound people?

 

[LanceStern]

Dark Peach says it's not the characters fault that they lose a match, that its all the players fault and "bad matchup" isn't an excuse.

I'm saying take arguably the best player in the world (M2k) or any possible best player int he world (Ally, ADHD, Lain etc), give them a near garbage character (Falcon, Ganondorf, Samus), go ahead and say they practice a long time with them and learn all the matchups. Then let them play in a high level tournament against their worst matchup against players that are nowhere good as them but those players have better characters.

Let them use Samus vs. Olimar/Metaknight or Ganondorf vs ICs/Metaknight and tell me that when they lose against a respectable player that it's the players fault and not the character/matchup.

 

[St. Viers]

DrkPeach is saying that too often a player uses their "character being bad" for the reason they lost, even if they would have lost using a different character, because of the difference in skill level. He is not saying the extreme that you are putting into his mouth...

 

[Kewkky]

I agree with what DrkPeach says. Why is it that everytime people who don't use the S tier characters complain about their characters whenever they lose, and people who use S tier characters don't? It's just a john people use to try and win some self-gratification, as well as hear people agreeing with them, whenever they lose against a higher tier'd character, or at a bad matchup. If they can't handle a small crappy 40:60, then it's the player who can't adjust, who lacks the skill. Even at top levels of play, 40:60 MUs are winnable, as well as 35:65s (there are almost no 30:70'd characters at national tourneys' top placing characters). It's mostly the player who can't outplay opponents. If you lose against an Olimar because he keeps camping and pivot-grabbing your Snake, you're not a top-level player. It's not because you have a bad MU, it's because you're not putting the effort in to find out how to get around that, you're just trying the same things again and again. If your ftilts don't work as an approach, you try DACUSing into his grabs, occasionally hitting him, where he ends up wavebouncing a whistle back down to the ground. (NOT hard to do, I wavebounce up/downBs all the time).

To an extent, it's the player at fault, not the character. If it's something like DDD/DK, or Ganon/ICs ore other such extreme examples, obviously it's the characters, using these examples to counter a simple-to-understand observation like DrkPeach's just to watch him answer back in anger is just ignorant.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I agree with what DrkPeach says. Why is it that everytime people who don't use the S tier characters complain about their characters whenever they lose, and people who use S tier characters don't? It's just a john people use to try and win some self-gratification, as well as hear people agreeing with them, whenever they lose against a higher tier'd character, or at a bad matchup. If they can't handle a small crappy 40:60, then it's the player who can't adjust, who lacks the skill. Even at top levels of play, 40:60 MUs are winnable, as well as 35:65s (there are almost no 30:70'd characters at national tourneys' top placing characters). It's mostly the player who can't outplay opponents. If you lose against an Olimar because he keeps camping and pivot-grabbing your Snake, you're not a top-level player. It's not because you have a bad MU, it's because you're not putting the effort in to find out how to get around that, you're just trying the same things again and again. If your ftilts don't work as an approach, you try DACUSing into his grabs, occasionally hitting him, where he ends up wavebouncing a whistle back down to the ground. (NOT hard to do, I wavebounce up/downBs all the time).

To an extent, it's the player at fault, not the character. If it's something like DDD/DK, or Ganon/ICs ore other such extreme examples, obviously it's the characters, using these examples to counter a simple-to-understand observation like DrkPeach's just to watch him answer back in anger is just ignorant.

Because people that use low tiers wants to be able to use the excuse that's it's their character thats bad and not them.

 

[Chuee]

70-30 MU's and worse, you can blame it on you're character :3

 

[Kewkky]

If they're wasting their time coming up with excuses on why they're doing bad with their characters, wouldn't it be smarter of them to use that time to master a better character? Lower on the tiers means worse, and there comes a point where you reach your character's limits. If you're not winning, that's what you signed up for. You don't need to look for excuses in order to make yourself do better in tourneys, you need to look for alternate options that will get you better placings. It's nice that you're a determined Yoshi mainer and all, but willpower and hope won't get you money. If you want to win, stop with the lower tiers and move to the higher tiers. There's a reason why there are 'bad' characters and 'good' characters, and why the 'good' characters are more popular, don't you agree? It's not because they're cheap, it's because they're the best choices if you want to win tourneys. Being stubborn won't fill your pockets, it will empty it faster.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Match-ups can be horrible, but I don't really see a loss being blamed on a low tier character - compared to a higher tiered one. If you're that uncomfortable with a match-up, set the controller down, say "Good game" and counterpick another character. I mean, come on now.

Unless it's completely pathetic, such as the Pikachu/Falcon, I don't see why people should complain all that much that their character "doesn't do good in this match-up". That's about the only exception I really have to blame it on a character's advantage, rather than a player's skill level.

 

[RATED]

It's possible to consistently SDI Ike's jab given that you KNOW it is coming (and more specifically, the frame it'll hit on.)

For example, you should have no problem SDIing Ike's grab release to Jab on Lucas simply because it takes over half a second from the initial release to the jab hit.

It takes superhuman reaction time to SDI the first jab if you don't have a long enough time to prepare for it, however.

actually u don't need super human reaction, u just got to know in what situation they will use the jabs so that u can decide shield or whatever or SDI it and punish quickly after it. I tend to do that against some moves instead of dodging that can be punish. is not something that can be done EVERY time since opponents have more options but if u know what's coming in that situation , u will know what to do.

 

[WindMajor]

If they're wasting their time coming up with excuses on why they're doing bad with their characters, wouldn't it be smarter of them to use that time to master a better character? Lower on the tiers means worse, and there comes a point where you reach your character's limits. If you're not winning, that's what you signed up for. You don't need to look for excuses in order to make yourself do better in tourneys, you need to look for alternate options that will get you better placings. It's nice that you're a determined Yoshi mainer and all, but willpower and hope won't get you money. If you want to win, stop with the lower tiers and move to the higher tiers. There's a reason why there are 'bad' characters and 'good' characters, and why the 'good' characters are more popular, don't you agree? It's not because they're cheap, it's because they're the best choices if you want to win tourneys. Being stubborn won't fill your pockets, it will empty it faster.

I quote this ***hole for truth.

Rickrolls hurt. :'(

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

If they're wasting their time coming up with excuses on why they're doing bad with their characters, wouldn't it be smarter of them to use that time to master a better character? Lower on the tiers means worse, and there comes a point where you reach your character's limits. If you're not winning, that's what you signed up for. You don't need to look for excuses in order to make yourself do better in tourneys, you need to look for alternate options that will get you better placings. It's nice that you're a determined Yoshi mainer and all, but willpower and hope won't get you money. If you want to win, stop with the lower tiers and move to the higher tiers. There's a reason why there are 'bad' characters and 'good' characters, and why the 'good' characters are more popular, don't you agree? It's not because they're cheap, it's because they're the best choices if you want to win tourneys. Being stubborn won't fill your pockets, it will empty it faster.

But they have excuse like character pride. Claims that they don't play gay. Or they think they're better because it's hard to main a low tier character. No matter what they justify them sucking and them sucking with a low tier.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Like I said, if you have a lack of confidence in your main actually getting you anywhere in a tournament, use someone else. I mean, I main Captain Falcon, but I don't think I'd even dare to use him in a REAL tournament unless I wanted bragging rights. I'd just stick with Zero Suit Samus if that was the case.

You can keep your pride and use a terribad character against the good ones, losing money in the process, or you can throw away the pride and reap the benefits. Personally, I'd rather have the money in this case. rofl

 

[YagamiLight]

actually u don't need super human reaction, u just got to know in what situation they will use the jabs so that u can decide shield or whatever or SDI it and punish quickly after it. I tend to do that against some moves instead of dodging that can be punish. is not something that can be done EVERY time since opponents have more options but if u know what's coming in that situation , u will know what to do.

Well, notice that you just said you were in a position to shield as well. Would you really go for the SDI (especially on a move with such a huge frame advantage that you won't punish them anyway) if you can "predict" and go for the shield / spotdodge instead? If it's during your cooldown time and you predict a jab go ahead and attempt to SDI but don't blame me if it's a slower / faster jab than you expected or if you get a move you didn't expect.

 

[SnackAttack]

I'm not trying to rush the SBR or anything, but I personally think that they're waiting on Pound4 to make a new tier list, who agrees?

What I'm basically saying is that people need to stop asking about it, this is a discussion thread about the characters' viability and what we think will happen; not "OMG WEN'S THE NEXT LIST ******* OUT!!!11!."

As for my opinion, I think the top ten, in this order, will be....

1. MK (He's MK, he's just broken.)
2. Snake (Still a solid character, great stage control and edgeguarding options)
3. Diddy (Broken, and he would be number two or maybe even number one if CPs weren't so bad for him)
4. Wario (Heavy, yet fast, many approach options, good recovery, decent ground game, amazing air game, but he has some difficult matchups)
5. Ice Climbers( When used right, the Ice Climbers are certainly deadly, they have desynchronized Blizzard walls, an amazing Chaingrab, and some other good options for them)
6. Falco (Lasers help approach and he can camp with them, he has a good spike, and he has the chaingrab too.)
7. Marth (Fast, has good range, and a all-around good metagame in which he can easily transfer from Air to ground combat. )
8.King DeDeDe( King DeDeDe is an all around great character, but he suffers from poor mobility, some pretty bad matchups, and he relies on his chaingrab a little too much sometimes which can be detrimental to him if the stage doesn't allow him to chaingrab, like Japes. His recovery while good, is also very predictable.)
9. Pikachu (Fast, High Priority, Versatile projectile. and nice Quick Attack mindgames.)
10. Olimar (Olimar is interesting, he is no doubt an excellent character on stage who can really **** your day up if you're not careful, but as we all know, his recovery is trash, which keeps him from being higher in my opinion.)

So, yeah, that's my two-cents on this. What do you all think, what am I wrong and right about? And what would you change in this top ten?

 

[Kewkky]

Sometimes SDI is smarter than shielding. I can't think of any situations off the top of my head, but you should always have all your options open if you want to get past that tough MU, and SDIing instead of shielding could be that saving grace which helps you avoid your opponent's follow ups which would only be possible if you shield.

 

[DMG]

If you have a choice between taking a hit and using SDI, or shielding, overall shielding is better.

HOWEVER, if you are in lag still from a missed attack/whatever, and you think you are gonna be hit, you might as well input smart SDI inputs while possibly holding shield (not a good idea if you are gonna need to tech or aim to tech something). Once you know you can shield, you can stop with the SDI inputs.

It's like hitting someone's shield and KNOWING you are gonna get punished. If you know it's coming and can't shield it in time, might as well start to SDI. In Brawl, this is fairly easy to see that you messed up like that.

 

[phi1ny3]

Sometimes SDI is smarter than shielding. I can't think of any situations off the top of my head, but you should always have all your options open if you want to get past that tough MU, and SDIing instead of shielding could be that saving grace which helps you avoid your opponent's follow ups which would only be possible if you shield.

G&W bair is a big one where DI stuff > shield in scenarios

 

[da K.I.D.]

G&W bair is a big one where DI stuff > shield in scenarios

I disagree, or at least I have to say that its character dependant.

between take 1/2 hits and sdi out of the bair, or take four hits on your shield and spotdodge the last 2 hits, you pretty much have an equal oppurtunity to punish the move, the only difference being whether yourcharacters best punishment move is an air or ground move, tho I would say that most characters best option is on the ground.

 

[Kewkky]

Uhh... I'm still standing by my point where leaving the option to SDI instead of shield there is always a good idea. o_o

Who knows when an extremely situational moment might present itself where you would normally shield and die by a follow-up, or SDI and survive by going out of the follow-up's range? I wanna have lots of options, I never know when one of them might be the one I need. :o

 

[da K.I.D.]

Uhh... I'm still standing by my point where leaving the option to SDI instead of shield there is always a good idea. o_o

Who knows when an extremely situational moment might present itself where you would normally shield and die by a follow-up, or SDI and survive by going out of the follow-up's range? I wanna have lots of options, I never know when one of them might be the one I need. :o

this is just the first thing off my head but it seems like it could happen.

a lucas has been pressuring your shield with nairs really bad, so now your shield is low, he runs in for the upsmash because even if it hits your shield, itll just break and youll eat a full charge up smash instead of a no charge one.

you cant spotdodge cus the upsmash start up and length will hit you anyway.

you can get hit by the up smash, SDI and avoid the hit with the massive KB, and punish the lucas with a kirby f smash for the win in his after lag.

 

[demonictoonlink]

this is just the first thing off my head but it seems like it could happen.

a lucas has been pressuring your shield with nairs really bad, so now your shield is low, he runs in for the upsmash because even if it hits your shield, itll just break and youll eat a full charge up smash instead of a no charge one.

you cant spotdodge cus the upsmash start up and length will hit you anyway.

you can get hit by the up smash, SDI and avoid the hit with the massive KB, and punish the lucas with a kirby f smash for the win in his after lag.

Or you could roll.

 

[Albert.]

9. Pikachu (Fast, High Priority, Versatile projectile. and nice Quick Attack mindgames.)

IN BEFORE "mindgames is not a viable reason for placement BLAHBLAH BLAH PMS PMS I'MMA ***** at you over stupid ****" ****

Why do people make such a fuss at this (this has always happened, I'm not just saying lately

Or you could roll.(Away from Lucas doing his upsmash

yeah seriously lol

 

[da K.I.D.]

lesson learned, there is never a time where letting yourself get hit is a better option than shield or one of its variations.

 

[Kewkky]

IN BEFORE "mindgames is not a viable reason for placement BLAHBLAH BLAH PMS PMS I'MMA ***** at you over stupid ****" ****

Why do people make such a fuss at this (this has always happened, I'm not just saying lately

Cuz they wanna sound smart by disagreeing with people who have the courage of throwing their opinions out where everyone else can see them and comment.



I will keep my option of "SDI'ing instead of shielding" open for when a situation arises... More options means less checkmates! ... And wouldn't Lucario rather SDI weak multi-hit attacks instead of shielding them and remaining weak? Just a thought is all.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Augh! Don't take what I said the wrong way!
I actually competely agree with Kewkky here. Gdubz' turtle is the perfect example. Tink can't do crap to punish it OoS. If I get hit I can get a bair of my own or even a dair, but that usually hits the shield.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Or you could roll.

this is just the first thing off my head but it seems like it could happen.

a lucas has been pressuring your shield with nairs really bad, so now your shield is low, he runs in for the upsmash because even if it hits your shield, itll just break and youll eat a full charge up smash instead of a no charge one.

you cant spotdodge cus the upsmash start up and length will hit you anyway.

you can get hit by the up smash, SDI and avoid the hit with the massive KB, and punish the lucas with a kirby f smash for the win in his after lag.

Um, ROLL AWAY!
Or maybe, just maybe, you can, move away?


Edit: See, DTL agreed too!

 

[BSP]

Lucas' shield pressure game is little overated. He doesn't really have anything besides nair (covered) and full hop dair (just move away).

 

[phi1ny3]

Augh! Don't take what I said the wrong way!
I actually competely agree with Kewkky here. Gdubz' turtle is the perfect example. Tink can't do crap to punish it OoS. If I get hit I can get a bair of my own or even a dair, but that usually hits the shield.

Yeah same with my main, we have really slow stuff ground wise, but SDI G&W bair and we get a free dair, nair, or uair iirc.

 

[Inaphyt]

You misunderstand me.

Speed is not the same as inherent worth.

All I'm saying is that characters have to meet a barline of speed to be competitively viable at the top of the metagame.

Part of Dedede's ability comes from having the fastest fastfall in the entire game. His rolls are quick and have great distance on them, and he can use his ridiculous grab or quick KO moves with great range immediately out of them. He has speed that allows him to compete.

Bowser doesn't have it in Melee, despite having lots of other really good traits, so he isn't competitively viable.

Peach doesn't have it in Brawl, despite having lots of other really good traits, so she isn't competitively viable.

I guess if people -want- to constantly put themselves at risk in a situation where they can make you come to them (which is not thinking at the top of the metagame), then Peach can tear people a new one.

If people make the most of their ability to stay safe, I don't see Peach overcoming many characters in the end.

Lol i thought dark peach was about to kick off when i read this.

Your comparing PEACH to melee bowser. like the worst character in the game.

 

[Conviction]

Haha makes you wonder we get anything accomplished when we are always arguing even after something has been basically set on set (this does not relate to MUs and things of the sort XD). I mean the little things >.<


EDIT: To start a little discussion in here how do you guys think is the best out of these potential characters? Fox, Wolf, Peach, or Shiek.