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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
- Status
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
Falco and Diddy's placing kinda bothers me, with a few other nit-picking things, but I like it overall.
lol
chill.
on the Sonic boards, we've been telling people Sonic sucks and trying to tell people how to beat the freaking character.
for some reason, he still went up on the tier list
telling people all the bad things about your character doesn't really affect the players at all, including you and him lol.
well, unless it was Sonic's D-throw, where you hold down and tech the "fourth" hit to get a free jab. But that's another matter ¦3
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
GANON SUCKS!lol
chill.
on the Sonic boards, we've been telling people Sonic sucks and trying to tell people how to beat the freaking character.
for some reason, he still went up on the tier list
...****, it didn't work.
718_ROOKI3
Smash Lord
geeeezz fox has to go higher, i try my best to enter more tournies, just gotta save paychecks
TP
Smash Master
Kalm, your persistence is admirable. Whenever Ganon is brought up in any thread in any way, there you are bashing him. What is really wrong with Ganon?
His grab range? We have the longest and most dangerous grab in the game: Choke. Pivot grab has more than twice the range of our standing grab.
Low mobility? You play online only, Kalm. Offline, you can powershield and get where you need to be. Wizkick cancel helps too.
Unwinnable matchups? Most Marth and ROB players need to CP in order to deal with MK, you don't see them in low tier tournaments.
Ganon will never improve? I'm working on it.
Just please stop telling everyone Ganon is so bad. Most people don't care at all anyway.
His grab range? We have the longest and most dangerous grab in the game: Choke. Pivot grab has more than twice the range of our standing grab.
Low mobility? You play online only, Kalm. Offline, you can powershield and get where you need to be. Wizkick cancel helps too.
Unwinnable matchups? Most Marth and ROB players need to CP in order to deal with MK, you don't see them in low tier tournaments.
Ganon will never improve? I'm working on it.
Just please stop telling everyone Ganon is so bad. Most people don't care at all anyway.
Flame Choke can be avoided on reaction. It's not a move that's easy to land.
There's a lot of stuff you can't powershield on reaction, such as quick aerials or grabs. It's very troublesome to get around that sort of thing.
Marth-on-Meta Knight isn't an unwinnable matchup. If a Wario grabs Ganondorf, he's lost a stock. There's a huge difference there.
Ganondorf has a lot of stuff to overcome. I'm not saying that he's cursed to being the worst character forever, but in the meantime, there are many, many issues...
Also, Ganondorf is fun for me. Predicting a person and landing a few moves in order to KO is a rush, to say the least.
TP
Smash Master
Don't get me wrong, I agree that he belongs at the very bottom of the tier list. It's just a matter of trying to change that and keeping a positive attitude.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Mario sure hasn't been doing well if he's in the E tier ranking. Being a well balanced fighter doesn't help when you have so many characters that can **** you in a blink of an eye. It's even more ridiculous that Mario was higher than Bowser in Melee, but it's the other way around in Brawl.
Sonic in the C tier sure was a shock since I would've thought that he'd stay below C tier for the lack of killing moves.
Something must've happened if Dedede is last place in the S tier. Guess it's not enough to have great grab range and the ability to infinite chain grab large targets. Got to also have some fast killers that you can easily rely on too.
Seeing Captain Falcon beat Ganondorf did seem a bit shocking at first, but it's understandable since Ganondorf is sluggish, very bad with approaches, and his recovery is so predictable and easy to counter.
Sonic in the C tier sure was a shock since I would've thought that he'd stay below C tier for the lack of killing moves.
Something must've happened if Dedede is last place in the S tier. Guess it's not enough to have great grab range and the ability to infinite chain grab large targets. Got to also have some fast killers that you can easily rely on too.
Seeing Captain Falcon beat Ganondorf did seem a bit shocking at first, but it's understandable since Ganondorf is sluggish, very bad with approaches, and his recovery is so predictable and easy to counter.
smashkng
Smash Lord
Captain Falcon also can't approach IMO because his attacks are slow and lacks priority. CF also has slow attack speed and though longer than Ganon's recovery, it's as easy to intercept. What CF has is camping, but he is weaker and lower priority than Ganon.
Captain Falcon and Ganon both have pretty fast aerials. The problem is, Ganon can't safely approach with his. Captain Falcon's U-Air, combined with his excellent horizontal aerial mobility, is enough, although he also has immediate F-Air and B-Air.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Falcon is surprisingly good. His aerials all are awesome (except for the NAir), and the ground moves aren't all too shabby either. It's just that he has awful range and priority, if it wasn't for these two, he'd be an awesome character.
TP
Smash Master
Ganon's Uair and Bair come out on the same frame as Falcon's, and Ganon's Fair is only 2 frames slower. The key difference is the horizontal aerial mobility. Falcon has better approaching and can deal with projectiles better and has a better recovery and can juggle better and has fewer chaingrabs to deal with. Ganon has outstanding punishing and better edgeguarding and much better spacing moves (Dtilt). Overall, I give the edge to Falcon, but it is only a slight edge.
Link owns both of them. Play Legan for more details.
Arora
Smash Apprentice
to bad for donkey i wander who will rise the most next tier list
sonic up 8 didnt see it coming
sonic up 8 didnt see it coming
Do Ganon's U-Air and B-Air have the same amount of landing lag as Captain Falcon's B-Air/U-Air?
Also, I would argue that Captain Falcon has better edgeguarding because of his good recovery.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. >:[
Clai
Smash Lord
Sorry, I have problems with people telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about when they are incapable of providing rational arguments as to how my statements are so wrong to them.
Forgive me for my ignorance, since I don't see Falcon too much, but since when was the knee considered 'good?' I guess it gets points for being an edgeguarding tool, but it's too hard to set up the sweetspot for it to be a viable punishing tool or a hit to end a juggle. I will take Ganon's thunderstomp over any of Falcon's aerials any day. You just don't mess with that move.
Sadly, Link does own both of them.
Popertop
Smash Champion
you can sourspot Knee > Uair as an edgeguard
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
I could say the same.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Oh, believe me. If you train it well enough, you'll be able to pull off the sweetspot quite constantly, that's not too hard. ^^
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Yeah, I don't even play Falcon all that much and I can sweet it most of the time.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Mario_and_Sonic_Guy;7557209 Sonic in the C tier sure was a shock since I would've thought that he'd stay below C tier for the lack of killing moves. [/QUOTE said:
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Well that IS only 3 moves, which really ain't much. I understand where MaSG is coming from.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
MK has the following moves as actual kill moves.
Dsmash
Fsmash
Shuttle Loop
As in being ACTUAL killing moves.
Only 3 but whats the difference?
Its not lack of kill moves that are an issue its the set ups themselves.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Alright except his up air...the rest can be outprioritized fairly...
Ryusuta
Smash Master
What about his glide attack? That has KO potential.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Metaknight gimps for his kills. Period.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
True, but MaSG was just making the point that Sonic doesn't have many kill moves.
TP
Smash Master
Sadly, Ganon's Uair and Bair do not autocancel, though both can be done laglessly in a short hop (you can even fast fall the bair and have it be lagless).
Never doubt Ganon's edgeguarding skills. RAR FF Uair is an amazing semi spike. It has a huge, sweeping hitbox and it gimps the majority of the cast if it hits at any point along the animation. There are only a few characters for which I would prefer using Dair, and it is a bad idea to be offstage against them anyway.
Playing Legan is like playing Minesweeper: you know you have to be fast, but your hastiness leads to you getting caught up in explosions. Then if you beat him, you put on sunglasses. Just like Minesweeper.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Many moves have KO potential at higher percents.
MK's glide attack is nowhere near as powerful as Pit's.
Oh great, point out something that I am addressing.
The point is that the number of kill moves is not necessarily important. It is the kill setups.
Hence my mentioning of MK.
A character does not need a large number of KO moves to be capable of kill;ing effectively.
That only really becomes an issue when the number of KO moves is at an extreme.
Mainly because then one can simply avoid the setup or KO move itself and last a much longer period of time.
Meanwhile if you have 3 KO moves and you can setup into all of them, its much more difficult to avoid those KO moves.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Lol wut.
Any game in which the characters are different will have a tierlist.
There is no such thing as inconsistent, especially since this game is the same no matter what, because it cannot be patched.
NO U
Kinzer
Mammy
Reflex, you're a pretty cool guy and all, but do you know of any PTs in the EC, more specifically the AN/ MD/VA/Tri-State area?
Most of our Sonics are there, while I hear of no such representation for PT over there. It's great that people like you and Typh can place/win but:
Isn't it suppose to be the toughest region there in the AN?
Most of our Sonics are there, while I hear of no such representation for PT over there. It's great that people like you and Typh can place/win but:
Isn't it suppose to be the toughest region there in the AN?
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Don't bowser's matchups and tournament placements merit a lower placement for him?
Cook Kirby
Smash Apprentice
I'm guessing that was the main reason for his 2 position drop. But yeah, I expected a further drop from him, too.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Good point Tec...
I'm sure there will be a final tier list eventually though, it's not THAT inconsistent, it all gets broken down.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Not really. Melee never had a final tier list. Sure, there was a LAST one, but one can argue that the tiers can never quite be set in stone.
That is considered to be the toughest area, yes; as far as I know, there is no real representation in that area.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Welllllllllllll I just recently picked him up and I'm in NC. Does that count?
Smith
Smash Ace
Your never going to get to a high level if you constantly pick up a new main.
Browny
Smash Hater
Im sure as hell no Sonic fanboy, dont even own a single one of his games
btw thanks sir bedevere lol, but thats probably coz Australia is full of scrubs and were all 2 years behind the brawl metagame
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