The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Matador]

Please...no Brawl vs Melee. It will only end in suffering. They're both imbalanced. I dare you to find a GOOD competitive game that actually IS balanced.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Please...no Brawl vs Melee. It will only end in suffering. They're both imbalanced. I dare you to find a GOOD competitive game that actually IS balanced.

why is it that people are incapable of making ANY comparison betweeen the two without it being shot down as "brawl vs. melee?"

nowhere did I suggest one was better than the other, mearly that the statement to which I was responding was false. And, so that I wouldn't just be trolling that response, I gave a reason that involved a difference between Brawl and Melee.

They both exist and they are different.... deal with it.

 

[Benn man]

Melee was more balanced, but Brawl is more fun all around.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Melee was more balanced, but Brawl is more fun all around.

-_-

nevermind matador...... that's why

 

[Frown]

Please...no Brawl vs Melee. It will only end in suffering. They're both imbalanced. I dare you to find a GOOD competitive game that actually IS balanced.

Agreed.

why is it that people are incapable of making ANY comparison betweeen the two without it being shot down as "brawl vs. melee?"

Melee was more balanced, but Brawl is more fun all around.

SEE?

 

[Maniclysane]

I knew Inui would be bottom. Bad matchup against Sonic.

 

[smashkng]

No, Benn man, Melee is more unbalanced because in Melee high tier characters in Melee ***** low tier ones, like Bowser who gets completely ***** by Sheik. Brawl is still a bit unbalanced though. 64 is the most balanced of the 3.

 

[Zankoku]

No, Benn man, Melee is more unbalanced because in Melee high tier characters in Melee ***** low tier ones, like Bowser who gets completely ***** by Sheik.

Dedede + infinite vs Bowser. What a coincidence.

 

[Matador]

why is it that people are incapable of making ANY comparison betweeen the two without it being shot down as "brawl vs. melee?"

nowhere did I suggest one was better than the other, mearly that the statement to which I was responding was false. And, so that I wouldn't just be trolling that response, I gave a reason that involved a difference between Brawl and Melee.

They both exist and they are different.... deal with it.

I'm sure that YOU have the ability to talk about both without bashing one or the other, but someone else willing to respond to your post won't. I have high respect for both games (Brawl not at first, but it has grown on me considerably) and would like to see them co-exist without so much animosity, but that's not the case.

There will be people who reply with such brash ideas that it'd be criminal not to respond to, some who're actually reputable members of the community, thus derailing a perfectly good thread to argue nonsense.

 

[pure_awesome]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq5ZCVRIihI

...I'm sorry, what was that you were saying?

Lol who the hell is Knivez?

This doesn't prove anything. Even Gimpyfish said he didn't beat any good Foxes. Being amazing with Bowser in Melee doesn't really do much.

With Reflex taking tourneys with freaking Pokemon Trainer against people who are actually good with their high tier mains, I consider Brawl more balanced than Melee until someone can show otherwise.

Taking tourneys using Pichu means nothing when you're up against nobodies.

 

[Zankoku]

Lol who the hell is Knivez?

This doesn't prove anything. Even Gimpyfish said he didn't beat any good Foxes. Being amazing with Bowser in Melee doesn't really do much.

With Reflex taking tourneys with freaking Pokemon Trainer against people who are actually good with their high tier mains, I consider Brawl more balanced than Melee until someone can show otherwise.

Taking tourneys using Pichu means nothing when you're up against nobodies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jDW6IEvYwQ

Also, Poké Trainer is way farther from bottom tier than Melee Bowser is. It'd be like me comparing Melee Ganondorf's tournament success to Captain Falcon's.

 

[Clai]

EDIT: If you want to know, the settings of the tournament in my college was 5 stock, no timer, and no items).

Please say there weren't people like these in your tournament:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbmu8fGcWaw

 

[Ryusuta]

Please say there weren't people like these in your tournament:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbmu8fGcWaw

Oh, god... that was HORRIBLE.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'd have to say brawl is more balanced. There's only one impossible match-up in brawl (Ganon Vs. Ice Climbers), where as there were much more in melee (Mewtwo, Kirby, Pichu).

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'd have to say brawl is more balanced. There's only one impossible match-up in brawl (Ganon Vs. Ice Climbers), where as there were much more in melee (Mewtwo, Kirby, Pichu).

Ganon vs. Wario and Dedede vs. DK/Bowser, too.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganon vs. Wario and Dedede vs. DK/Bowser, too.

Those are close to impossible, not impossible.

There are still a lot of 10:90 > match-ups, though.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Those are close to impossible, not impossible.

There are still a lot of 10:90 > match-ups, though.

Why is Ganon vs. Ice Climbers particularly worse?

 

[Red Arremer]

Because they easily can force him to approach and since he's so slow don't have much trouble to grab him, leading into a deadly infinite? That's not even so easy to mess up since he's so heavy and can't really do much against their quick grabs.

 

[Matador]

Why is Ganon vs. Ice Climbers particularly worse?

Because Ray is extremely pessimistic when it comes to Ganon

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Why is Ganon vs. Ice Climbers particularly worse?

To add on to what Spadefox said, all of Ganon's moves are grabbable after a powershield/dodge, which could be lead into infinites, and since we're talking about Ice Climbers here, Ganon loses a stock after a grab against a decent IC. Ganon's slow so IC's projectiles could also pressure him from further range. Flame Choke is completely wrecked by the ungrabbed IC, and could be intercepted before the SA. Ganon doesn't even have the spacing tools to help him "hit and run". Other than that, Ganon's easily gimmpable off-stage.

 

[Justblaze647]

Finally...

I'm starting to see some PT love in this place...

took you guys long enough...

 

[xatm092]

I agree massively with Diddy and Pikachu. Not so much with Wario, but I've never played a good Wario offline so that's probably why.

 

[Red Arremer]

Wario's potential is easily seen if you just look at his character traits and abilities. He's ridiculously good. Top 5 for sure.

Hell, almost every character in the game has a grab release on him, yet he manages to be absolutely not hindered by it. Grabbing a Wario, lolz.

 

[xatm092]

I have seen his stats, and played against a mediocre Wario, and tried playing him a bit myself, so I have a kind of feel for him, but I need to get beaten (or at least nearly beaten) by one first before I can understand what makes him S tier.

I'm sure he is, I just have yet to witness it.

*is still sore about Marth losing a place*

 

[Mr.E]

Grabbing a Wario isn't even as difficult as grabbing a character that can actually outrange and space their opponent. :/ He's more overrated than Diddy immediately after NL beat M2K a while back.

 

[Red Arremer]

lol, grabbing a Wario. Easy. Hahaha.

 

[Matador]

Grabbing a Wario isn't even as difficult as grabbing a character that can actually outrange and space their opponent. :/ He's more overrated than Diddy immediately after NL beat M2K a while back.

I don't agree about the whole grabbing thing, but I DO think Diddy's rather overrated. He just seems really dependent on matchup knowledge. If you fight him like everyone else, you get *****.

 

[smashkng]

Grabbing a Wario isn't even as difficult as grabbing a character that can actually outrange and space their opponent. :/ He's more overrated than Diddy

Grab easily Wario? That's a joke!

Wario overrated? He deserve the 2nd place, Wario lacks matchups as low as 35-65. And only 2 are 40-60.

 

[GimR]

dang it! was Inui originally last on the tier list? If so, why did you edit it?, thats so funny!

 

[Ryusuta]

I use Yoshi, who has the second-best pivot grab in the game AND an infinite grab on Wario... and I STILL wouldn't BEGIN to consider it an easy task to grab the guy.

I think it's hilarious that someone legitimately thinks Wario would be easy to grab.

 

[Zankoku]

He's not easy to grab, but it's nowhere near impossible.

 

[Kewkky]

did you see last night's tourney livestream? Fiction (Wario) vs Tyrant (DDD)... Tyrant never got to grab Wario. Not even once, WITH DEDEDE.

PS: This was directed at no one, hence why I used no name.

 

[Mr.E]

Please, go look at most any high-level Wario videos. Reflex, Fiction, DMG, doesn't matter who you watch. They certainly don't avoid being grabbed entirely. Occasionally, as above if true, they might get away with it for a match. But hey, M2K didn't avoid getting grabbed by lain's Ice Climbers for an entire set either.

To say his air release issues are crippling would be an overstatement but, at the same time, almost completely ignoring them because "a good Wario doesn't get grabbed" is bogus reasoning. The fact that Marth, Snake, Dedede can grab release Wario into a guaranteed kill at relatively lower percents than he usually lives is still a considerable knock against him. Not every opposing character can take advantage of it but the same could be said of Falco's recovery or ROB's blind spot. It's still a disadvantage to consider for the character.

 

[Ryusuta]

Oh, I'd definitely agree with that, too. If any of those were directed at me, I certainly didn't mean to give the impression that Wario was impossible to grab. Just indicated that, even with everything going for Yoshi's grab game - particularly against Wario - I still wouldn't consider it a forgone conclusion that that's what would win a match against the character by itself.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Even Falcon has some awesome grab release stuff.
...
EVEN Falcon!!

 

[smashkng]

How many times Wario gets if it's Dedede? 5 per match (it's hard to not get grabbed by DDD's massive grab range). Anyone else against anyone? 10-20 or more per match.

 

[Kewkky]

Please, go look at most any high-level Wario videos. Reflex, Fiction, DMG, doesn't matter who you watch. They certainly don't avoid being grabbed entirely. To say his air release issues are crippling would be an overstatement but, at the same time, almost completely ignoring them because "a good Wario doesn't get grabbed" is bogus reasoning. Not every opponent can take advantage of it but, then again, not every opponent can take advantage of Falco's recovery or ROB's giant blind spot underneath. The fact that Marth, Snake, Dedede can grab release Wario into a guaranteed kill at relatively lower percents than he usually lives is still a considerable knock against him.

Until its seen people can consistently pull it off, it's no better than Falco's recovry... And Falco was #3 before, and now is #4 (Wario happened). Care to explain?

 

[iBrawler]

Wario :S is good? :S

 

[Lovely]

Wario :S is good? :S

No, Wario is sexy. ;p

But if you play him and know all his tricks, you can see how he's good.

 

[Mr.E]

Until its seen people can consistently pull it off, it's no better than Falco's recovry... And Falco was #3 before, and now is #4 (Wario happened). Care to explain?

inb4edit

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, perhaps that Falco's recovery is quite adequate -- i.e. Phantasm is so quick that, despite his deficiencies, Falco isn't actually gimped that often -- and the same could be said of Wario's grab release issues? *shrug* If that's what you're saying, then that was exactly my point. After all, not every character can take advantage of the problems in Falco's recovery. Where Snake or ROB can punish him well, Dedede can't really do much against it. Likewise with Wario being grabbed on flat ground, though almost every character can force an air release on a slope without a platform overhead. (e.g. PictoChat's edges, various spots in Rainbow Cruise or Delfino.) Wario can also accidentally air release if he causes a jump break while button-mashing to struggle out of a grab, though a "good" Wario should rarely make that mistake.

I would've said Olimar, instead of Falco, but I'm pretty sure almost everyone can gimp him. :/ Anyway, the point was that Wario's grab release problems seemed to be entirely ignored this time around, which perhaps inflated Wario's place beyond where he belongs.