The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[mountain_tiger]

Did I say unwinnable?

Saying that a character gets 'wrecked' by someone else implies that you think that the match is unwinnable for the character on the receiving end (Well, that's the impression I get from it, anyway).

 

[~ Gheb ~]

hi gheb whats up?

Newsflash: High level Falcos do well vs high level MKs

Or anyone but MK...

Hence why DDD is in the same tier as MK/
Even though DDD does badly against some characters like Olimar and Falco.

Isn't MK the only character that doesn't get hard countered?

Snake has no bad match-up JFYI.

Wario, Diddy and probably Falco all have no hard counters...I'd also argue that Pikachu has no hard counter either.

Isn't Diddy vs Luigi something like 70:30 Luigi's favour? Granted, Luigi isn't used too much in tournaments, but still...

Well, Diddy is an interesting case. With how much he wins, it is hard to argue that he isn't a top character, but he's wrecked by a few mid tier characters that don't usually see high end gameplay.

No, no, no. Diddy doesn't get wrecked by anything. Does he loose certain match-ups? Quite possibly but wrecked? No way, guys.
You need to quit being delusional and start becoming realistic: Top tier characters don't get wrecked by anything. They are top tier for a reason. Diddy has maybe 2 or 3 match-ups that he looses but that's about it. Even if Peach has some stupid BS against him he's still ****ing Diddy Kong and he has a hundred times as many options as Peach does.

A mid tier character can beat a top tier, sure, but if you think that anything can wreck him you need to get your head straight. Just because Peach doesn't get flat out ***** by Diddy like most characters do doesn't mean that she wrecks him ... more like 55/45 in Peachs favour. 6/4 at worst but that's far from getting wrecked.

Saying that a character gets 'wrecked' by someone else implies that you think that the match is unwinnable for the character on the receiving end (Well, that's the impression I get from it, anyway).

Indeed. Diddy Kong has highly reaslistic chances to beat Peach just as much as any other character. If Peach wrecked Diddy every idiot would start taking Peach vs Diddy bu that doesn't work because even if Peach might win Diddy can still **** her pretty badly.

 

[philbobjoe]

Snake has no bad match-up JFYI.

Olimar and ROB have a 60:40 advantage over Snake.

 

[§leepy God]

Olimar and ROB have a 60:40 advantage over Snake.

♪ On Olimar you have to change your buttons to A= Attack, B= Special, X= Grab, Y= Grab, C= Grab, Z= Grab, L= Grab, R= Grab and D Pad= Grab to beat Snake. And ROB, we should all know. †

 

[Likeness101]

Pretty sure falco gets wrecked by Ice Climbers.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Olimar is for sure a Bad Matchup, Although Rob and DDD I feel are not all that bad as some people may think.

 

[gallax]

olimar is the biggest pain for snake. once you get a grab its easier yes, but still a pain.

DDD and rob are easier to beat yes. rob is still a tough MU for me but DDD isnt that bad.

 

[kingcobra9]

Olimar is difficult

 

[Suspect]

snake and olimar are not bad, lrn2dthrow tech chase

 

[philbobjoe]

That helps, but Snake has a bit of a problem with grabbing Olimar.

 

[SOVAman]

Ban Olimar

 

[phi1ny3]

idk y, but I really dislike the term "soft" and "hard" counter, as anything 60:40 with good CP options is good imo. But that's me.

 

[gm jack]

snake and olimar are not bad, lrn2dthrow tech chase

When an Olimar will happily pivot grab you every time you dare set foot inside his (long) grab range, it is quite hard to land a grab on the little guy.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Isn't MK the only character that doesn't get hard countered?

I dunno, I guess it depends on what we see as being a "hard counter." Snake, Falco, Diddy, and Dedede are all not really ever "hard-countered." They might have really bad matchups, like Marth vs MK or ZSS vs Falco, but they aren't really "hard counters."

I think to be in S tier you have to invalidate or severely hurt a character in S, A, or B tier, or multiple characters, and not have any unwinnable match-ups. Thus, Falco, Diddy, Snake, MK, and Dedede are all good candidates for S tier; Wario doesn't really even have any bad match-ups, I don't think (right?). Otherwise MK would be in a tier of his own, which maybe the case. It depends how we're defining it all.

THe only character there that ever might see a ahrd counter is possibly DDD cause of the gayness that is Falco.
Everyone else might have a bad amtchup or so but they never experience anything worse than 65:35.

dumb stuff

ROFL , I am done with you now.

Newsflash: High level Falcos do well vs high level MKs

We must be using different functions of the word.
Really?
So Sethlon, Sk92, kismet etc etc are all beating high level MK's and placing higher than them as a result?

Are they beating these high level MK's? Regularly?

 

[Suspect]

you have been saying dumb stuff this entire thread.

 

[Blast Man]

A good olimar can be deadly so you may wanna stay out of his reach and sheild a lot more than usual. When he has white pikmin stay far away. Rack up damage then go for kill.

 

[philbobjoe]

you have been saying dumb stuff this entire thread.

no u

But, seriously you are saying stuff without any logic, while ShadowLink has been much more logical about this.

 

[ShadowLink84]

stuff

I'll make the same challenge to you that I did with Kid some time back.

Do find the posts where I have illogically presented my argument and provided no reasonable backup to those arguments.
If you cannot, do cease posting on the matter since I'll simply consider your accusations as trolling and report it as such.

Thank you.

 

[Suspect]

Wow really? So i didnt just come in here and tell the TRUTH about kirbys matchups

and

Correct him on Top tier having bad matchups.

While you have just been going along with whoever is right trying to seem smart.

talk about logical

@shadow- you have like almost 6000 post yea let me go check them real fast

 

[phi1ny3]

Mwahahaha, once my research on new lucario shenanigans return positive, lucario will get a safe way to rack up damage early like he did when FPCG wasn't known to be breakable, and lucario will rise again! Mwahahahahaha!

@ @
\__/​

 

[philbobjoe]

@shadow- you have like almost 6000 post yea let me go check them real fast

He meant in the last few pages..., you know how you said he has said dumb stuff the whole thread.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Wow really? So i didnt just come in here and tell the TRUTH about kirbys matchups

He is referring to the matter at hand currently.
I have no involvement concerning kirby.

and

Correct him on Top tier having bad matchups.

You didn't.
All of the characters with supposed "hard" counter matchups, are not hard countered.
If they are hard countered, again, that severely hurts their viability and they simply cannot be considered top tier or possibly high tier.

Every other fighting game proves this in that their tierlist reflects my argument.
Top tier and high tier characters all lack a hard counter.

Even in GGXXAC which is considered among the most balanced fighting games, no top tier character is ever hard countered.

Eddie in GGXXAC
Arakune in Blazblue (do correct me if I am wrong concerning his tier placement).
Old Sagat in ST
Dhalsim in SF2
Sagat and Ryu in SF4.
Karas in TvC
Magneto,Sentinel, Cable and Storm in MvC2

While you have just been going along with whoever is right trying to seem smart.

So you have made posts probing me wrong then?

@shadow- you have like almost 6000 post yea let me go check them real fast

6000 posts is cumulative.
I have around 120+ in this topic.
Also, if you are unable to prove that I have been "dumb" the entire topic, then that means your post was mere flaming.

Have good night. *clicks ignore*

 

[Dark.Pch]

Reading some pages back up until now (was bored), I noticed one thing. People tend to forget that this game is not freaking balanced, This game is broken. People for get this crap too much. Keep that in mind before you go on about somethings.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Reading some pages back up until now (was bored), I noticed one thing. People tend to forget that this game is not freaking balanced, This game is broken. People for get this crap too much. Keep that in mind before you go on about somethings.

welp if a multi million dollar company came to your studio and said

"hey make me a casual fighting game"

what would you give them in return, after spending 2-3million of their money to make it?

 

[tocador]

welp if a multi million dollar company came to your studio and said

"hey make me a casual fighting game"

what would you give them in return, after spending 2-3million of their money to make it?

Brawl?????????

 

[Dark.Pch]

welp if a multi million dollar company came to your studio and said

"hey make me a casual fighting game"

what would you give them in return, after spending 2-3million of their money to make it?

Sakuaria or w/e the hell his name is, made brawl. This community made competitive brawl. those 2 added together = an unbalanced fighting game.

 

[xXFrosTXx]

G&W Went down G()D F@#%IN D@#N it

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Sakuaria or w/e the hell his name is, made brawl. This community made competitive brawl. those 2 added together = an unbalanced fighting game.

the point is, you give that company EXACTLY what they want. Sakurai directed the project, but iirc Nintendo is the one that asks him and his studio to do it.

They make the game in order to mass sell it to get $$. You already kinda pointed it out yourself. The game is the way it is because of business politics. And when you take something, we see as imbalanced/incomplete, and marry that with a competitive edge you get a living hell.

As hard as it is for me to say, "Its written in stone, get over it." We cant ignore clear and obvious problems. They're eye sores.

How do you solve imbalanced problems? Especially if it comes from the developers side? Do you buy the game and enforce this idea thats its a good game in the eyes of the developer?

What do you do? I really don't know.

I'd love to just sit here and type, "Well just go to the developer and tell him whats wrong." It'll never happen, and the developers probably wont listen to some one with no credit to their name.

 

[Dark.Pch]

the point is, you give that company EXACTLY what they want. Sakurai directed the project, but iirc Nintendo is the one that asks him and his studio to do it.

They make the game in order to mass sell it to get $$. You already kinda pointed it out yourself. The game is the way it is because of business politics. And when you take something, we see as imbalanced/incomplete, and marry that with a competitive edge you get a living hell.

As hard as it is for me to say, "Its written in stone, get over it." We cant ignore clear and obvious problems. They're eye sores.

How do you solve imbalanced problems? Especially if it comes from the developers side? Do you buy the game and enforce this idea thats its a good game in the eyes of the developer?

What do you do? I really don't know.

I'd love to just sit here and type, "Well just go to the developer and tell him whats wrong." It'll never happen, and the developers probably wont listen to some one with no credit to their name.

You don't understand what I am saying at all.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Ban Snake.

 

[ShadowLink84]

**** forum.
I meant i agree on the game being broken

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Failure. Lol

 

[ShadowLink84]

YOUR MOM! yeah i went there

 

[kingcobra9]

Duhn duhn duhn...

 

[Frown]

K.

Let's discuss Lucario. The guy who's in a lot of trouble if he's the first one to lose a stock.

Also, I'll quote my friend: "Does it get harder to KO Lucario when he gets more %?"

 

[ShadowLink84]

How is he in trouble if he loses a stock first? He gets a boost for losing. @_@
It gets more dangerous as the battle proceeds against Lucario. So that aspect he is harder to KO.

 

[phi1ny3]

Not entirely, Frown. People who can hold a stock obviously do really well, and Shadow's right, lucario gets a buff for being behind. Conversely, if he's ahead, he also gets a debuff. It's not a huge amount on both sides, but it certainly is noticable (x1.2 if he's behind one stock, x1.4 if he's behind two, x.9 if he's ahead, etc., iirc).
The truth is, yes, he is a bit hard to regain on someone who has taken the lead, but chances are, if the lucario has done +100, he'll get a kill decently (he's got some decent kill moves and options), and it will eventually even out by the end of that stock if he's playing smart. Lucario can also hold onto a stock lead crazy good. It's really a shame nobody huge is dedicating lucario as their main, he's got no true soft counters (let alone hard), and he's got everything in the "better than average" zone (except maybe start up, which is still pretty decent considering what other properties they've given to his moves).
I know this sounds really bias, but I know that it's pretty straight forward.
We've also made an ever-so-slight improvement to his recovery (directing the bounce when he hits the stage so he can get away more farther from punishers who were hanging on the edge). Honestly, I think he should be in A tier, it's really a lack of solid represenatives that's hurting him.

So to answer your friend's question Frown, Overall, yes.

 

[Browny]

fun fact

Lucarios fsmash tipper (monster hitbox) KO's earlier than marths tipper fsmash at the same % it KO's Lucario at. People regularly underestimate how powerful it is lol. 1st stock isnt the determining factor >_<

 

[phi1ny3]

^This.
10underreppedwoes

 

[mountain_tiger]

fun fact

Lucarios fsmash tipper (monster hitbox) KO's earlier than marths tipper fsmash at the same % it KO's Lucario at. People regularly underestimate how powerful it is lol. 1st stock isnt the determining factor >_<

True, but getting the first stock can give you a psychological advantage over your opponent, so it's worth something.