The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Matador]

Actually he plays a bit differently offline than online.

There've been a few times where he DIDN'T try to Bokuroll me until he was down a stock or something, so I'm not surprised.

I guess I'm so used to seeing Shadofiend and SonicMaster5 play so much that I can't imagine a sucessfully campy Sonic...even though I've played one.

 

[MetaYoshi14]

Well, the tier list looks pretty good to me in my eyes, but I still disagree about where Yoshi stands (since I'm a yoshi fan and all). I think he could have a good chance of being D Tier maybe even higher. Otherwise, the tier list is great

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Well, the tier list looks pretty good to me in my eyes, but I still disagree about where <my character> stands (since I'm a <my character> fan and all). I think he could have a good chance of being D Tier maybe even higher. Otherwise, the tier list is great

 

[Camalange]

*Facepalm*

I completely forgot about Boku. Does his playstyle even work offline?

No, he's trash. Pretty sure he lost every set in his Apex pool.

 

[Red Arremer]

Well, the tier list looks pretty good to me in my eyes, but I still disagree about where <my character> stands (since I'm a <my character> fan and all). I think he could have a good chance of being <tier of choice> maybe even higher. Otherwise, the tier list is great

Fixed.

10fixes

 

[deepseadiva]

I believe characters like ROB, Pit, Wolf, and Toon Link are suffering from the same problem. Correct me if I'm wrong-

We just figured out spam isn't that terrible.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Well, the tier list looks pretty good to me in my eyes, but I still disagree about where <my character> stands (since I'm a <my character> fan and all). I think s/he could have a good chance of being <tier of choice> maybe even higher. Otherwise, the tier list is great

Fixed again.

 

[Umby]

Fixed.

 

[.Marik]

Woah, I just discovered something really cool.

You know the total amount of posts for a particular thread? Well, you can click on the number and a link will pop up, showing how much each individual poster replied.

Spadefox currently has the most, with 229 posts, Dark. Pch is in second with 193 posts, and Supermodel From Paris is in third with 133 posts.

I now have 64.

And lol @ Ike fangirl trying to say Ike will rise when clearly he won't.

B Tier. What the fu-

 

[ShadowLink84]

and espy kinda but especially on yoshis island >_>

Every Sonic will camp on YI. Why wouldnt they>

 

[Dark.Pch]

Woah, I just discovered something really cool.

You know the total amount of posts for a particular thread? Well, you can click on the number and a link will pop up, showing how much each individual poster replied.

Spadefox currently has the most, with 229 posts, Dark. Pch is in second with 193 posts, and Supermodel From Paris is in third with 133 posts.

I now have 64.

Do I win something?

Every Sonic will camp on YI. Why wouldnt they>

Cause Peach is on the field.

 

[Laem]

Could be totally wrong, but its still fun to try to look into the future.

Lol in the far future im thinking Olimar is the best due to his pikmin wobble infinite xD(yet to be discovered, but i promise, its there) probably ZSS will be able to infinite every1 too. MK will drop, due to lack of infinites, snake stays high because nades can prevent infinites. infinite infinite infinite, sheik will have infinites, too. Oh, and footstool will be banned due to infinite potential.
more input needed folks :D

 

[deepseadiva]

Lol in the far future im thinking Olimar is the best due to his pikmin wobble infinite xD(yet to be discovered, but i promise, its there) probably ZSS will be able to infinite every1 too. MK will drop, due to lack of infinites, snake stays high because nades can prevent infinites. infinite infinite infinite, sheik will have infinites, too. Oh, and footstool will be banned due to infinite potential.
more input needed folks :D

Ha, Pikmin wobbling? How would that work at all.

No, if we're talking about future ATs, Olimar is a goldmine. In a matter of months, Olimar's will be performing tele-smashes from across FD.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Future ATs?

loldiddywhocanpotentiallyinfiniteeveryonebutluigi

On a serious note, even though I think where Fox is is pretty accurate, it bugs me that Wolf isn't above him.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Future AT: Peachblast, a technique which kills someone below 150%

Oshi---

 

[mountain_tiger]

I'm still waiting for the day that someone discovers a way to guarantee a sweetspotted USmash for the kill with Peach. Oh, and also...

*looks at post count in topic*
* makes note to get a real hobby*

 

[ShadowLink84]

Do I win something?



Cause Peach is on the field.

Peach can float all she wants ,she can also toss all the turnips in the world, but unless she gets herself on the ground and hits his spindash, he is just going to plow through everything she has.

Plus I have Uair and Bair. IN general, Peach is not a major issue for Sonic though she can be problematic.
YI makes her much more manageable though.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Who said I need to float to get at you. Floating makes me slow and easier to land a hit on Peach. Peach does not always need to be floating. That's a typical peach for you.

And what will your Upair and bair do. I don't get why you are bringing this up.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Who said I need to float to get at you. Floating makes me slow and easier to land a hit on Peach. Peach does not always need to be floating. That's a typical peach for you.

Then what will you do on the ground?
I am talking Yoshi's Island wher ei can make myself limited rom one end to the other and repeat.

And what will your Upair and bair do. I don't get why you are bringing this up.

Both Bair and especially Uair are disjointed attacks. So they allow Sonic a means of taking on Peach in the air as well. They are also good for spacing against Peach.

I cannot see why you are asking me if you've played other good Sonic users.

 

[Scarecrow222]

duh mewtwo isn't in brawl

 

[Albert.]

where is this "total posts per thread" link

>_<

 

[ShadowLink84]

It will be on the right where it says, total number of replies. Before you click on the topic.

 

[da K.I.D.]

up air doesnt really beat peachs attacks, they are more disjointed.
bair is slower than peachs aerials.

sonics air game can fight peachs, but peachs is way superior.

also, peach can easily stop spindashes on YI
turnips will clank and stop the roll.
she can also just use her 2 frame jab to clank with the spindash, and if that happens, both players get put on a zero frame, and peach can just jab again and it will beat anything sonic can do thats not shield

 

[Brawler-13]

Yoshi

Yoshi should be much higher but whatever

 

[Kuga]

Yoshi should be much higher but whatever

This kind of Post make me fell SICK!

 

[ShadowLink84]

up air doesnt really beat peachs attacks, they are more disjointed.

Actually you are quite wrong.

Sonic's Upair beats out Peaches' Dair as well as her Bair.
It just seems that way because Uair has very few active frames in the face of her Dair, so its much more precise otherwise she'll beat it out.

bair is slower than peachs aerials.

IT is called spacing, learn about it.
Peach is slower both ground and aerially (speed).

sonics air game can fight peachs, but peachs is way superior.

K and your point? I said it allows him to contend, not that he can eat her aerialy.

also, peach can easily stop spindashes on YI
turnips will clank and stop the roll.

Not really, I have more than often seen it go under the turnips due to the little slopes.
Plus, the jump cancelling makes it easier to deal with moves that would normally clang.

she can also just use her 2 frame jab to clank with the spindash, and if that happens, both players get put on a zero frame, and peach can just jab again and it will beat anything sonic can do thats not shield

I beats out anything that isnt the three dodges and the shield (infzy frames kick in on frame 2).
Plus,like I said, jab cancelling lets you deal with the opposing characters ability to clang your moves and then beat you upclose on speed.

In anycase, it isnt as if you are using iSDR to directly approach.

 

[AvaricePanda]

...so again.

Is there a good reason why Fox is above Wolf? I really don't know why he is.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Then what will you do on the ground?
I am talking Yoshi's Island wher ei can make myself limited rom one end to the other and repeat.



Both Bair and especially Uair are disjointed attacks. So they allow Sonic a means of taking on Peach in the air as well. They are also good for spacing against Peach.

I cannot see why you are asking me if you've played other good Sonic users.

Oh the ground I can short hop my air attacks, Jab with stops all that sonic does or straight ground float my aerials for a quick wall And make it hard for you to hit me as well as me move in and start the pressure. Again, Peach doesn ot need to be floating so much. And against Sonic, she really does not have too.

Also, My Fair is beating Both your Bair and Upair. From the sides. if you are behind me and wanna Bair, I'll dish out mines and beat it. My Bair is six frames and has range. If in front or over you, Peach should not even be trying to hit you. It is stupid while in the air. She should be pulling away

Actually you are quite wrong.

Sonic's Upair beats out Peaches' Dair as well as her Bair.
It just seems that way because Uair has very few active frames in the face of her Dair, so its much more precise otherwise she'll beat it out.

Her dair can beat his upair air. But you have a better chance of hitting me with you attack. I have to time it.

IT is called spacing, learn about it.
Peach is slower both ground and aerially (speed).

I have range with 2 moves in the air horizantally. You have one. With this I can Space both Bair and Fairs. And my spacing is quick thanks to her moves not lagging. Just wanna throw that out there.

Not really, I have more than often seen it go under the turnips due to the little slopes.
Plus, the jump cancelling makes it easier to deal with moves that would normally clang.

Every move Peach has can stop and kill all or Sonic's approaches. I can turnip, jab you, Nair. Bair. list goes on. Wether on YI or FD, Peach can stop all of your approaches and moves. Dair alone can stop everything. Same with Nair.

I beats out anything that isnt the three dodges and the shield (infzy frames kick in on frame 2).
Plus,like I said, jab cancelling lets you deal with the opposing characters ability to clang your moves and then beat you upclose on speed.

In anycase, it isnt as if you are using iSDR to directly approach.

What KID said is true. That one move alone can just end sonics whole game and pressure. All it takes is a jab.

 

[Matador]

What KID said is true. That one move alone can just end sonics whole game and pressure. All it takes is a jab.

I know that for Mario vs Sonic, Mario has SHNair, Ftilt, and fireballs that clank or beat Sonic's spindash and he's still just as formidable on the ground. Generally Sonics know that spindash doesn't have the best priority so they don't abuse it unless they want to get wrecked all over the place. Sort of like how anybody can say that you can punish Mario after he lands Dtilt, so WE'll just never use it.

They DO have like 50 cancels for it to bait the things that cancel it out. Just my two cents.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Oh the ground I can short hop my air attacks, Jab with stops all that sonic does or straight ground float my aerials for a quick wall And make it hard for you to hit me as well as me move in and start the pressure. Again, Peach doesn ot need to be floating so much. And against Sonic, she really does not have too.

If jabbing was a solution to all that Sonic could do then alot of characters would not have much of a problem with him now would they.

The logic is faulty primarily because Sonic has ways to beat out jabs or to simply get around them.
Jabbing doesn't stop all his approaches, it only stops the bad ones, mainly spindashing directly at an opponent who is in a neutral state.

Hence why its better for peach to try and brick wall sonic with her quicker aerials.
Its much quicker plus it isnt as if Sonic can simply powershield.

Also, My Fair is beating Both your Bair and Upair. From the sides. if you are behind me and wanna Bair, I'll dish out mines and beat it. My Bair is six frames and has range. If in front or over you, Peach should not even be trying to hit you. It is stupid while in the air. She should be pulling away[/COLOR]

Why would I try to Uair or Bair your Fair?
I explicitly stated it beats out her Dair and Bair and Nair. I ignored the other two primarily because Sonic isnt in usually position to compete with them, ike Uair, or cant, like with Fair.

Sonics Bair has range as well and while it is half as fast, Sonic is much more quick on the ground and it aids him in spacing the move against her.
Of course he shouldn't be direct, which I have stated repeatedly.

Her dair can beat his upair air. But you have a better chance of hitting me with you attack. I have to time it.

Yeah, I stated this earlier
Priority wise, Sonics Uair is stronger than her Dair, but I think her Dair typically beats it out because its striking during the first hit or is attacking before the second hit is out.

I have range with 2 moves in the air horizantally. You have one. With this I can Space both Bair and Fairs. And my spacing is quick thanks to her moves not lagging. Just wanna throw that out there.

Its actually two. uair extends farther than it appears on both hits and is very quick and safe.
Bair has only the start up issue. Cooldown time is actually quite low.

Every move Peach has can stop and kill all or Sonic's approaches. I can turnip, jab you, Nair. Bair. list goes on. Wether on YI or FD, Peach can stop all of your approaches and moves. Dair alone can stop everything. Same with Nair.

Except this is only true in the cases of Sonic's bad approaches like spindash where he is limited in his behavior.
Sonic rarely commits to his approaches.

Dair doesn't break Sonics approaches, he has ways of getting around it, Utilt and Uair are moves that both are capable of breaking Peaches Dair.
Nair gets beaten out by Uair and Bair.
Fair sonic cannot contend with directly.

Sonic does have answers to her attacks, its wrong to say Peach can stop all of his approaches with one move.

On YI, the invincible spindash allows him a quick, and much more safe method of getting close to Peach quickly. Certainly she has the ability to stop it, I don't believe I ever said she cannot, but it lets him deal with some of her more dangerous moves.

You can certainly jab all you want, but what would that do?
Sonic's approaches usually make use of his ability to cancel. So saying that you are going to jab sonic out of all his approaches isnt true when he can simply switch to another method that will either go arund the jab or beat it out.

Uair is an extremely under used move by most Sonic mains and is very helpful against Peach

What KID said is true. That one move alone can just end sonics whole game and pressure. All it takes is a jab.

Kid is an idiot who plays an extremely slow and predictable Sonic.
Again I ask, in the face of Sonics ability to cancel his approaches would jab even bother him.

Let alone Sonic can just dash shield grab through the jab.


@matador: Ragna avatar? I approve. Thanks for the support btw. I dont understand why anyone believe Sonic users would spind as an approach when he has other options he can use.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

That's Ragna, silly Shadowlink.

O.O

BLAZBLUUUUUUUUUUU---

*IS SHOT.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[da K.I.D.]

wow, really? just throwin out random insults huh? that makes you sound smart, yup.

Like, stuff like that isnt even necessary, if it wasnt so easy to get around the simple stuff peach does, she wouldnt be on the poll for sonics worst matchup.

Try to prove your point without trying to knock other people down and you might actually make head way with the points you try to prove



also, i HIGHLY approve of smooth criminal, in every way

EDIT: I think the post below this one is very true

 

[Dark.Pch]

Sonic can have answers to her moves. But I assure you Moves like Dair and Nair beat and can kill all of his approaches and attacks. I'm telling you that Peach can shut down all that he can do. Thus Sonic can just play as free as he can with other characters. I would not be saying this if I have not done this so many times to the top sonic players here. This is not about me just saying sonic isnt **** top me. I'm telling you what the deal is.

I would seriously have to play you for you to get this. Talking on here won't do anything.

 

[ShadowLink84]

That's Ragna, silly Shadowlink.

O.O

BLAZBLUUUUUUUUUUU---

*IS SHOT.*

Smooth Criminal

Why did I think Jin?
@_@
Must be the hair

wow, really? just throwin out random insults huh? that makes you sound smart, yup.

Of course i have to troll you in order to keep you running.
otherwise, you won't put your heart into it

Like, stuff like that isnt even necessary, if it wasnt so easy to get around the simple stuff peach does, she wouldnt be on the poll for sonics worst matchup.

That's a bad sentence. Don't you mean if it was easy?
And it actually is easy to get around the really simple stuff.
The thing is whena ll that stuff is combined.
Its not as if peach jabbig is an issue, its that she is tossnig those turnips, and jabbing after a Fair or Bair or Dair and how she forces Sonic close.

Not that she just jabs whenever sonic approaches.

Try to prove your point without trying to knock other people down and you might actually make head way with the points you try to prove

Oh so basically you wasted my time responding to your post so you can just baaaaaw at me insulting you?
QQ moar

also, i HIGHLY approve of smooth criminal, in every way

EDIT: I think the post below this one is very true

You agree with anyone who disagrees with me.

Sonic can have answers to her moves. But I assure you Moves like Dair and Nair beat and can kill all of his approaches and attacks. I'm telling you that Peach can shut down all that he can do. Thus Sonic can just play as free as he can with other characters. I would not be saying this if I have not done this so many times to the top sonic players here. This is not about me just saying sonic isnt **** top me. I'm telling you what the deal is.

Dark I checked it out myself.
Sonic can indeed break her moves like Dair and Nair with his Uair.
Its a move that many Sonic's including the top ones, don't seem to utilize enough.
Certainly I agree Peach does give sonic a hard time, but I do not believe its just one single thing or another, more like the combination of her lagless attacks, combined with her turnips.

I would seriously have to play you for you to get this. Talking on here won't do anything.

See before one believes. Easier than discussing it true.
umm, when do you want to play?
Im good for weekends and friday.

 

[Matador]

Like, stuff like that isnt even necessary, if it wasnt so easy to get around the simple stuff peach does, she wouldnt be on the poll for sonics worst matchup.

Speaking of which, has anybody voted her over Wario, *Marth and G&W yet?

Because that's silly.

I would seriously have to play you for you to get this. Talking on here won't do anything.

<---Agrees that this kind of thing is so ridiculously pointless, I can't help but add my two cents.

Just play over wifi. It's good for this kind of thing at least.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Meh i dont like wifi. Its tough to use Sonic.
I think G&W is a harder match than Peach.

 

[Dark.Pch]

<---Agrees that this kind of thing is so ridiculously pointless, I can't help but add my two cents.

Just play over wifi. It's good for this kind of thing at least.

What? how is it pointless, explain. And wifi won't prove anything in this case. offline is what matters if you wanna prove a point. If people wanna use wifi for answers, that is just stupid.

So explain how this is pointless.

And shadowlink, maybe sometime time the following weekend. Around the 17, that is when I get paid at my job and I have time to travel and stuff.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ahh i cant play during then, I am heading to Otakon during that weekend.

 

[Matador]

What? how is it pointless, explain. And wifi won't prove anything in this case. offline is what matters if you wanna prove a point. If people wanna use wifi for answers, that is just stupid.

So explain how this is pointless.

And shadowlink, maybe sometime time the following weekend. Around the 17, that is when I get paid at my job and I have time to travel and stuff.

Between players, it doesn't prove who's better.

With mundane debates like these where you're trying to prove whether or not one move beats another or if a technique will work against a given character consistently, it fulfills its purpose.

Offline is better, Wifi is a convenient alternative.

 

[Yonder]

...so again.

Is there a good reason why Fox is above Wolf? I really don't know why he is.

Wolf's metagame is moving at a snail`s pace? I think Wolf should be above Fox, but not by too much...