The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Melomaniacal]

Close to each other, NOT THE SAME THOUGH.
Seriously, everyone knows Ness>>>Lucas so... why are they in the same SPOT?
It's like giving MK and Snake the Tier of "top" with Falco.
>_>

I never said they were the same.
How did they end up the same on the tier list? That's the average of votes, oh well.

 

[PKNintendo]

...I never said that Ness is worse then Lucas (I in fact agreed that he's better, see "right"), I'm not arguing that. I'm saying in relation to the rest of the cast, they both should be right next to each other.

Gaaawsh.

Umm do you have reading comprehension? You asked how Ness and Lucas are in relation to the other class, and I explicitly stated that their matchups were not the same. Dear lord, glad your not in the SBR.

I never said they were the same.
How did they end up the same on the tier list? That's the average of votes, oh well.

If you honestly think they were voted to have the same score. lol, just LOL.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I thought that the SBR did vote on what the score was, after going through everything from tournament stats to match ups....

 

[Melomaniacal]

Umm do you have reading comprehension? You asked how Ness and Lucas are in relation to the other class, and I explicitly stated that their matchups were not the same. Dear lord, glad your not in the SBR.




If you honestly think they were voted to have the same score. lol, just LOL.

First off, calm yourself. No need to get all hostile, you need to relax.
Second, no offense, but speak for yourself. I never asked anything, including Ness and Lucas' relation to the rest of the cast. I simply stated that in relation to rest of the cast, they are going to be placed close together.
And it's an average. Meaning someone may have voted Ness to be higher than Lucas, but someone else voted Lucas higher than Ness, therefore making them even. Therefore they don't all have to vote the same for them to be in the same spot. But once again, it doesn't really matter. Tier lists change, and they aren't 100% correct all the time.

Yeesh

Seriously calm down, haha, we're not even disagreeing about anything. You just think we are xD

 

[PKNintendo]

I thought that the SBR did vote on what the score was, after going through everything from tournament stats to match ups....

(Facepalm to the max)

Voting is all well and good, for everyone else that is. But do you honestly think Ness and Lucas got the same voting placement? Nuts to that. Even worse, Edreese pretty much confirms that at being impossible. (for me)

First off, calm yourself. No need to get all hostile, you need to relax.
Second, no offense, but speak for yourself. I never asked anything, including Ness and Lucas' relation to the rest of the cast. I simply stated that in relation to rest of the cast, they are going to be placed close together.
And it's an average. Meaning someone may have voted Ness to be higher than Lucas, but someone else voted Lucas higher than Ness, therefore making them even. Therefore they don't all have to vote the same for them to be in the same spot. But once again, it doesn't really matter. Tier lists change, and they aren't 100% correct all the time.

Yeesh

Seriously calm down, haha, we're not even disagreeing about anything. You just think we are xD

Yes and your statement is false. Live with it. You have next to no knowledge of Ness and Lucas. Just like Im completely oblivious to Lucario's metagame. Do I state ''Lucario should be next to Olimar''

 

[_Phloat_]

In this corner, weighing in at 3,109 posts, and doing nothing but making assumptions and flaming opinions, is DJ... B-B-Brownieeee

 

[Melomaniacal]

(Facepalm to the max)

Voting is all well and good, for everyone else that is. But do you honestly think Ness and Lucas got the same voting placement? Nuts to that. Even worse, Edreese pretty much confirms that at being impossible. (for me)





Yes and your statement is false. Live with it. You have next to no knowledge of Ness and Lucas. Just like Im completely oblivious to Lucario's metagame. Do I state ''Lucario should be next to Olimar''

My statement is that Ness is better than Lucas, but still close enough that it's understandable that there are no characters between them. That's wrong? Weird, you saying "Ness is better" isn't too far off from my statement.
And Ness is my low tier main.
Or Sopo.

You haven't stated that Lucario should be next to Olimar, correct. And if you did, I wouldn't care. At all.

Whatever, the point is this: we're not even really disagreeing on anything and you're getting all pissed off, questioning my reading comprehension (lolirony). Caaaalm dooowwwn.

 

[Kinzer]

In this corner, weighing in at 3,109 posts, and doing nothing but making assumptions and flaming opinions, is DJ... B-B-Brownieeee

I couldn't help but laugh.

 

[JesiahTEG]

you just shoot down your credibility every time you post

ever considered that dodging is the best way to beat snake? Good luck punishing Oos when his ridiculous tilts push you back a mile. Once again, a low tier character has found a way to abuse a top tier characters weakness, and all you can do is call it scrubby, even though he won. Also let me get this clear, are you implying that Deva is 'unimpressive' or 'not skillful'? I mean seriously, you did not just do that...

I cant wait for your next post lol... should be even better. I need moar laughs

Also im lol'ing at how no other SBR member is coming here to argue with you on this Jesiah... youre all alone in this war of words. maybe time to realise how ridiculous your statements are?

I'm inclined to believe you're very uninformed when it comes to understanding basic fighting game concepts.

1. Snake walks up to said opponent.
2. Opponent dodges.
3. Snake waits, then Ftilts.
4. Opponent takes 21%.

It's not Deva's fault for being "good enough" to mash dodge over and over. It's DSF's fault for not being able to punish it.

This is fighting game 101.

Also, I didn't want to say this because I felt like it would hurt your feelings, but oh well. There is a reason very, very few SBR members or good players post in this thread, or discuss with you about their thoughts.

I have literally asked 2 people before to come into this thread and provide perspective to everyone. They say "What? Are you kidding me? You want me to argue with Smashboards masses? HELL NO."

People don't like coming into this thread, for the exact reason above: You don't understand much about the game. There is more to it then who wins a match. Lots of factors can be affecting who wins a match, and it's up to YOU as a smasher to not look at the results, but what happened in the match to determine if said player is good or not, or why they won. This is what separates good players from bad players, they understand things.

It is clear from that video that either DSF was playing bad, or he has a very hard time beating dodging. It's also clear that if anyone else played Deva and walked up to him and waited and had a sense of timing, they could punish him and beat him fairly easily, provided he was playing the way he was in that video.

Now, since DSF didn't do that, I don't know whether or not Deva would have adapted. Maybe he would catch on when someone walks up to him and waits. Maybe he would have grabbed, or retreated and spaced an aerial. I don't know. But, from that vid, I can clearly see why DSF lost, what he could have done better and what he shouldn't have done.

If you can't see that, you really shouldn't be arguing about this then.

I will also reiterate, you said a low tier character has found a way to beat a top tier character's weakness. If you truly, honestly, genuinely think Snake's weakness is dodging, then walk away from this thread. Go IM some good Snake players. Ask them to inform you on Snake, his strengths, weaknesses, basic gameplay, because dodging is not by any means, one of his weaknesses.

Again, no SBR members are coming to help me most likely because they don't bother to look at this thread. Also, I find it very ironic that when you DO have someone coming in here that takes their time to talk with people, even post their tier list and explain reasoning behind it, you feel like you need to argue w/me to prove something to me. Granted, I was an *** when I first posted, but that was a while ago and the discussion has since shifted.

Not to mention, I don't need another SBR member to talk to me about a topic I'm already well versed in. If for some reason you can't analyze that match between DSF and Deva by yourself and you don't trust my word for it, then I'll ask an SBR member to come into this thread and explain it to you. However, I suggest you take the time to look at that match closely yourself.

 

[PKNintendo]

DJ, don't diss Jesiah when it comes to top tier. He knows it inside out.

Hell, I presume your avatar indicates that you use Infernape in Pokemon?
As a lead I presume?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Actually, Infernape is my favorite Pokemon of all time. Hands down. I also created the best Infernape set.

Actually, wow I'm so lucky.

My favorite character in Melee is Marth. Coincidentally, he happens to be good.

My favorite character of ANY video game ever, tied for first is Snake. He RANDOMLY gets put into Brawl and happens to be god.

My favorite Pokemon is Infernape, and he's amazing.

Maybe that's why I don't have an appreciation for low tiers, because all of my favorite characters happen to be the best LOL.

Also, I have an idea. I will not say sorry for dissing low tiers. I still think they're stupid and pointless lol. However, next time we make the tier list I'll propose that we gather 2 low tier specialists to temporarily help us provide insight to the low tier matchups.

Like I said, I don't let my personal bias control my actions.

 

[PKNintendo]

Actually, Infernape is my favorite Pokemon of all time. Hands down. I also created the best Infernape set.

Actually, wow I'm so lucky.

My favorite character in Melee is Marth. Coincidentally, he happens to be good.

My favorite character of ANY video game ever, tied for first is Snake. He RANDOMLY gets put into Brawl and happens to be god.

My favorite Pokemon is Infernape, and he's amazing.

Maybe that's why I don't have an appreciation for low tiers, because all of my favorite characters happen to be the best LOL.

Also, I have an idea. I will not say sorry for dissing low tiers. I still think they're stupid and pointless lol. However, next time we make the tier list I'll propose that we gather 2 low tier specialists to temporarily help us provide insight to the low tier matchups.

Like I said, I don't let my personal bias control my actions.

Whats the set?

Also **** you and your luck. Dear lord... Thats the creepiest luck ever. You know what TEG, we might actually be close pals, since as a mod, you didn't flame the *** of us. (no pun intended)

As long as you do your bit, everything we'll be fine.

As for the specialist thing...

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Also, I find it very ironic that when you DO have someone coming in here that takes their time to talk with people, even post their tier list and explain reasoning behind it, you feel like you need to argue w/me to prove something to me.

I and several others appreciate it as some discussion by a BRoomer is actually what I HOPED for for this thread. Unfortunately for you if you have an opinion someone's gonna argue it. =P

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iaik3Efwdxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWMen9KvflM&feature=related

i believe these are the matches in question.

and I for one learned much more from these matches than i would have from any snake ditto. Thats a fact.

I think you will learn more about spacing from these vids than from a snake ditto. We all already know snake god-awful broken range. What i didnt know was that link could actually do something about it.
For the record I didnt see too many instances where DSF should have punished and didnt. I did however see tons of moments where deva sidestepped insanely early so that h could get a hitbox out before dsf did...

 

[JesiahTEG]

Well, they were completely right for flaming me for saying I hated low tiers. That was expected. However, arguing about how I should acknowledge Sonic and his tourney placings when I clearly put him higher than everyone else in the SBR, or how Deva beating DSF wasn't because DSF failed hard at punishing dodges...That stuff is just wrong. I know what I'm right on and what I'm wrong on, and if I'm wrong I admit it, which I've done several times. I'm wrong for thinking that low tiers are stupid, but I still put them where I think they should be.

 

[PKNintendo]

Well, they were completely right for flaming me for saying I hated low tiers. That was expected. However, arguing about how I should acknowledge Sonic and his tourney placings when I clearly put him higher than everyone else in the SBR, or how Deva beating DSF wasn't because DSF failed hard at punishing dodges...That stuff is just wrong. I know what I'm right on and what I'm wrong on, and if I'm wrong I admit it, which I've done several times. I'm wrong for thinking that low tiers are stupid, but I still put them where I think they should be.

Then why did you place Mario in high tier? (9)

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm wrong for thinking that low tiers are stupid, but I still put them where I think they should be.

FINALLY. Thank God he finally admits it. Although an apologize would still be nice, but you can't have everything, I'd think.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Dude, I know I'm the only person in the world that doesn't like low tiers. It's backwards. But it's still funny to me and some other people, and it's not like I can just change. However, just because I don't like low tiers doesn't mean I'm going to write them off. Well, yes it does LOL but it doesn't mean I'm going to completely ignore them, hence me putting Sonic at what I felt was a reasonable level on the tier list.

I think Mario's really good, for a number of reasons. He's got good kill moves, he's mid weight for starters. He can outcamp a lot of people, even though fireballs are generally easy to get around if you know what you're doing, but in terms of camping I suppose they help. He's VERY good at comboing. In this game, there's no true combos, and the only way to hit someone for certain is to hit them as they land, in which you have 3 frames of landing lag.

Mario can juggle people with Uairs and Nairs and grabs very low to the ground, making it either impossible to escape, or you have to use your double jump. Mario's aerials are so quick that if you use your double jump, the lag on them will end fast enough so that you can punish them again when they land. It's pretty significant how good Mario is at juggling people. Not to mention, Utilt is very good at juggling also.

He can intercept people out of the air with his Down B, it comes out very fast and can hit people in between attacks, even brick walls like Marth's Forward Air.

His jab is really fast, can get people off of his back quick. Doesn't have much trouble killing. Seems good overall.

However, his combo ability is what made me rank him so high.

Also, keep in mind some of my stuff is wrong for sure. I guess Ness is way better than Lucas, but I had no idea. Probably should have researched it more. I don't think it matters to the point where everyone needs to freak out about it and complain nonstop though, that's the thing.

 

[Kinzer]

I and several others appreciate it as some discussion by a BRoomer is actually what I HOPED for for this thread. Unfortunately for you if you have an opinion someone's gonna argue it. =P

That's one optimistic way to look at it.

When I see this:

I have literally asked 2 people before to come into this thread and provide perspective to everyone. They say "What? Are you kidding me? You want me to argue with Smashboards masses? HELL NO."

I think of it as the lucky *******s who even got appointed that high up are just being lazy and trying to escape some balently obvious problems that have to be addressed.

Seriously what is the job of the false SBR if it's not to inform the people that they are suppose to lead and represent? I also think that if you are expected to do a job, you either get it done (IDC when, just as long as it does, like say WIPs), or you don't do it at all and not keep the red/purple name.

Though I can't blame them entirely, I mean even I can't look into everything concerning Sonic, like certain matchup discussion that decide to go on Sonic...

... Some Olimar boarders are a lost cause...

Although at least Jesiah isn't be a complete jerk about it, I suppose he understands just about as much as any other intelligent poster that we all have our opinions and likes. I for one think Sonic compliments my playstyle more than Meta Knight.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Well, they were completely right

That stuff is just wrong. I know what I'm right on and what I'm wrong on,

and if I'm wrong I admit it

I'm wrong for thinking that low tiers are stupid, but I still put them where I think they should be.

this is something a lot of people wont do, and this is why he, unlike some others, dont have a problem coming in to a thread like this, and expressing himself

stuff like this is how you gain respect among your peers.

 

[JesiahTEG]

No, no one's trying to escape responsibility. A lot of SBR/Good players genuinely cannot stand debating with people in this thread. It's too frustrating to most of them, and I can see why. They rather just debate with each other in the back room, where it's void of people who don't realize certain things, or fail to understand certain concepts. For the most part that is.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm glad we found that we are able to talk, after all. You have proven to see and admit your mistakes, Jesiah, which will end in me respecting you as a member of the SBR.

The problem, though, is, that if so many people voice their opinion - like for example about Ness and Lucas being tied - there has to be something wrong.

If I were a member of the SBR, I'd try to get input from my community, especially if I am NOT knowing about the characters I have to decide on. I will roam the character boards, maybe ask mains I know of that are considered being good a few questions.

I agree with you on the fact that not everyone posting in this thread can understand all concepts or is able to realize everything... but neither are the SBR members. Noone can know EVERYTHING about Brawl, especially not if it comes to such indepth topics like the characters' potential.

Of course, if I have no people mourning why XY is so low or AB so high, the debate is easier. But if I post the results of my research open into debate, then I'm BOUND to be critisized. Actually, when EVER I release something, there is someone who will point out a mistake or a wrong thought or conclusion on my text.

If you don't want the community's input or critics, then, simply put: Don't release something into the public.
If you want the community's input, then accept it.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I just want to make this clear, I'm not trying to be respected or be liked. I have my own ways of thinking, that of which while different from most of the SBR, provides a valuable perspective as well. I've done more to help this community than a lot of people have, see my 2 current threads in tournament discussion about stopping splitting and to allow videos to be released to the public. See my thread in Brawl Tactical Discussion about improvement, WHICH btw, describes me using Pokemon Trainer to try and beat a Meta Knight. See me modding the Snake Boards and Pokemon Center to the best of my abilities.

I do what I feel and say how I feel. If I say I hate low tiers and people shouldn't even bother playing them, obviously I'm not worried about being respected or liked. If you choose to dislike me or disrespect me, w/e.

However, what I do want to get across is my points, how I feel and how my stance on certain issues.

 

[Red Arremer]

That's okay, Jesiah. Everyone is bound to their opinions... still I'd rather have a response to my actual post rather than the introduction line. =P

 

[memphischains]

No, no one's trying to escape responsibility. A lot of SBR/Good players genuinely cannot stand debating with people in this thread. It's too frustrating to most of them, and I can see why. They rather just debate with each other in the back room, where it's void of people who don't realize certain things, or fail to understand certain concepts. For the most part that is.

It is because they are all biased ****s who can't stand to argue with logic, so they circle jerk with each other in a private room. Most of the SBR shouldn't be members, so they argue with themselves where only a fraction of people who know what they are talking about can read there stupid comments.

A lot of back there feels like they are better than everyone else because they have a private forum to argue over arbitrary things in a game that sucks as a competitive fighting game.

the SBR as a whole can hhkj' themselves

 

[smashbot226]

DK lower than Pika?

NO WAY

 

[JesiahTEG]

It is because they are all biased ****s who can't stand to argue with logic, so they circle jerk with each other in a private room. Most of the SBR shouldn't be members, so they argue with themselves where only a fraction of people who know what they are talking about can read there stupid comments.

A lot of back there feels like they are better than everyone else because they have a private forum to argue over arbitrary things in a game that sucks as a competitive fighting game.

the SBR as a whole can hhkj' themselves

Someone's angry about something.

Anonymous (9:49:58 PM): i was reading your posts in the tier list thread
GB JesiahTEG (9:50:02 PM): LOL
GB JesiahTEG (9:50:04 PM): i love them
Anonymous (9:50:04 PM): heh
Anonymous (9:50:06 PM): too funny
Anonymous (9:50:28 PM): your list is balls btw
Anonymous (9:50:29 PM): =]
GB JesiahTEG (9:51:06 PM): hah, u dont like it?
Anonymous (9:51:22 PM): lol nope i disagree with a lot of it actully
GB JesiahTEG (9:52:15 PM): do tell
GB JesiahTEG (9:52:20 PM): post it in the thread
GB JesiahTEG (9:52:23 PM): and ill debate u
Anonymous (9:52:25 PM): lol no way
Anonymous(9:52:33 PM): that thread is full of too much idiots

See, I really wasn't lying guys. This JUST happened.

 

[Kinzer]

It's just good ol' Chains.

Seriously, he's so dedicated about this shizz, he's willing to go all-out rebel on the false SBR.

Edit: Shoot, I used up my 5,000th post making that simple statement.

 

[Turbo Ether]

It's true that arguing with random people in these type of threads is a complete waste of time. I also enjoy watching Snake and/or MK dittos between top level players. I understand Jesiah's perspective.

 

[Kinzer]

It's true that arguing with random people in these type of threads is a complete waste of time. I also enjoy watching Snake and/or MK dittos between top level players. I understand Jesiah's perspective.

That's why you don't bother with them.

I also enjoy high tier fights... when good people are playing them...

...Otherwise I get easily bored watching a MK ditto.

I like variety I guess.

 

[memphischains]

I understand his prospective too, I just got angry when he defended those idiots, and called us idiots.
I should also state that I am not claiming everyone back there to be an idiot, just more than most of them, even with the reformation.

Those people have the wrong perspective on the purpose of their membership, don't have enough knowledge of the game, and are extremely biased.

I just find it hard to believe that the community would allow one region of the US to become the majority of the people "running this ****", let people back there that shouldn't be, then listen to them.

No one has ever argued my point directly, btw. Sonic boards know that, they have seen it themselves. Calling me an idiot through an aim conversation doesn't deny my post or make any defense on your part about my statements.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i will vouch that the vast majority of MC's pointsand posts go unanswered and ignored.

I have seen it happen mulitple times.

 

[memphischains]

i will vouch that the vast majority of MC's pointsand posts go unanswered and ignored.

I have seen it happen mulitple times.

They are not just posts that are like "the SBR blows" that are ignored, either. I understand ignoring those posts, but I post viable arguments that get ignored.

**** the SBR

 

[-Mars-]

Try searching "Sonic" for this thread............your computer will crash.

 

[Vorguen]

LOL, then go Yoshi second.

 

[thesage]

A lot of people who post regularly in this thread are ********. The tier list thread has always been this way since melee. There is always one character that everybody argues should be higher since he does amazing at local tournaments, but he actually is pretty bad.

While Jesiah is also mildly ******** he does bring up a good point. Maining a low tier in tournament is only going to hurt you. Heck, if you don't main Snake, Falco, or MK it's going to hurt you regardless lol. As long as you think you can win the tournament with your character then do it. If you know you're character sucks and you play him anyways for fun well good for you, you just won't win major tournaments.

 

[memphischains]

A lot of people who post regularly in this thread are ********. The tier list thread has always been this way since melee. There is always one character that everybody argues should be higher since he does amazing at local tournaments, but he actually is pretty bad.

While Jesiah is also mildly ******** he does bring up a good point. Maining a low tier in tournament is only going to hurt you. Heck, if you don't main Snake, Falco, or MK it's going to hurt you regardless lol. As long as you think you can win the tournament with your character then do it. If you know you're character sucks and you play him anyways for fun well good for you, you just won't win major tournaments.

I should also state for the record I could care less about Sonic's tier list position and where he s on ankoku's list.

...

although he should be steak tier.
and kirby with sonic hat should have a spot because I played him in tournament and got in top 8, and he deserves such.

 

[Deleted member]

my infernape set is way better than his don't listen to him.

 

[BBoyindo]

Memphischains is funny.
Saying that most of the people in the SBR are noobs/idiots, while your being dumb yourself.

"Those people have the wrong perspective on the purpose of their membership, don't have enough knowledge of the game, and are extremely biased."

How do you know that? Are you in the SBR yourself? Has half of the SBR told you they are just in it for the little grimer under their posts?

I don't think so, have a little respect.

 

[Umby]

Memphischains is funny.
Saying that most of the people in the SBR are noobs/idiots, while your being dumb yourself.

"Those people have the wrong perspective on the purpose of their membership, don't have enough knowledge of the game, and are extremely biased."

How do you know that? Are you in the SBR yourself? Has half of the SBR told you they are just in it for the little grimer under their posts?

I don't think so, have a little respect.

His perspective comes from having conversed with the SBR members either through instant messenger, PM, or threads where SBR members are involved, such as Weekly Character Discussion threads. Don't worry, memphis actually has at least some kind of reasoning behind his posts.